2-0 is the goal, Jake and that Dline should feast, 15th straight sellout, rain or not.........LETS ******* GO!!!!!!!

36 minutes ago, bluto said:

Had to read that twice.

Hey Argos eat clock as well. Good on them. Nice to see you.

The turning point was the INT by Collaros (which was a horrible decision on his part. Like shockingly bad). I'm not saying Collaros is the reason we lost, but when your D can't stop anything or anyone, you just can't afford a turnover in scoring position. Our O did play well enough for us to win. Our D would have lost the game to some U sports teams. No run defense, couldn't stop the same damn thing over and over and over. Hamiltons passing game consisted of running to the sticks and turning around, and waiting for one v one on the outside and letting the Rec play fetch. Maybe the worst pass defense I've seen in 10+ years. It was embarrassing. No one seemed to know what was happening multiple times and the DL wasn't relevant at all because it was 4 vs 6 basically all night.

As others have said, our LBs are essentially pathetic. Jones/Wilson can't tackle in open space and can barely tackle with help. Jones is awful in pass coverage but he's trotted out there time and time again in those situations.

Milanovach made JY his ***** and completely exposed his defense all night.

8 minutes ago, Mike said:

The D was bowling shoe ugly last night and I'm with a lot of the other people saying Younger has just gotten way too cute. It's like he decided at some point that the chess match part of football is the only part - at some point, you have to just let these guys go out and play ball rather than trying so hard to confuse the other team that you confuse yourself.

One thing I did notice is that Jenkins (so far) appears to be yet another guy in the long line of "seniority" awards. Reese and Dixon (in limited action) have both looked more noticeable. We really need some impact playmaking linebackers, the ones we have are just there existing, but they don't really bring a whole lot to the table and let's be honest, if their veteran leadership and awareness is leaving them just as confused as every other player on the field then at least get some young hungry guy who is gonna rip a guy's head off instead of whiffing on every tackle (looking at you Kyrie Wilson)

Final comment on the D - either our man coverage cushion is by design absolutely WAY too soft, Deatrick Nichols is 100% cooked or maybe both.

As for the offense, no complaints whatsoever. Collaros looking like he turned the clock back a few years. Nield looks like a gamer and I'll go ahead and say he's probably our number 1 Canadian receiver at this point ... I'm fine with those four guys and Cobb if that's how they can all play. Who cares about a productive fifth receiver? Hamilton's fifth receiver yesterday was Tyler Ternowski. Not the most important spot. I'm impressed by Condell so far.

We go through some version of this with JY every year too.

His secondary is a mess for the first month or so of every year. People quickly forget that the rush 3 drop the rest thing came from us being awful at everything on D.

The first month ish of 24, the side with Kramdi and ford couldn't cover a bed with all the blankets in the world.

Going back to Hall, our secondary's panic button is deep soft zone.

Generally, in the split field zone base our secondary runs the Corner is supposed to play short and out routes seeking to get under coverage and the Half carries the Deep target to the deep zone defender or they are the deep man. In both games, even the vets are struggling mightily with execution on who is picking up what.

That's all why we are constantly replacing corners, while we are married to the hbs. The Halfs either carry and pass off or get deep enough that they generally are able to be more consistent.

Jy has definitely been too cute with play call and design this year. I really like the guy as a coach, but he is trying to do way too much and be way too complex. Every year he tries to reinvent the wheel instead of building on whats worked.

Kind of felt like a weird game all around. Collaros played really well but they couldn't get Brady going at all on the ground. Leaving 11 points in the red zone was effectively the difference in the game. Those two long pauses in the first half (Peters going down, who sounds like he is doing alright, and the Incomplete, Challenge, Challenge sequence) seemed to suck the energy out of the offense.

On defense it never felt like they could actually stop anything. It felt like Roundtree was getting them 2nd and medium consistently and then Bo would find someone underneath for the first down. Those two long Wheatfall receptions seemed like they were pretty well defended Moxey just couldn't get a hand in there.

I'm disappointed that the West side upper deck seemed to run out of popcorn by the third quarter.

I don't think it is any exaggeration to say Zach had had more guys open on those intermediate routes in two games then all of last year combined. WTF were we even doing last year?

Someone asked if Nichols was cooked. At the stadium, it sure looked that way. A step behind, and missed a bunch of tackles when he was in the right spot. I actually thought Moxey was in decent coverage half the time but you would think a vet like him would know how to look for the damn ball.

10 minutes ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

I don't think it is any exaggeration to say Zach had had more guys open on those intermediate routes in two games then all of last year combined. WTF were we even doing last year?

Someone asked if Nichols was cooked. At the stadium, it sure looked that way. A step behind, and missed a bunch of tackles when he was in the right spot. I actually thought Moxey was in decent coverage half the time but you would think a vet like him would know how to look for the damn ball.

Tackling has become an epidemic on D. The % of play stops in the form of tackles at the 2nd and 3rd level is sickening.

At half time the ticats 2nd down conversion rate was just under 75%. That's absurd.

I won’t rehash what everyone else has said but just some random thoughts:

We have way too many guys on this team who are good at many things but not great at any one thing.

There are too many “quiet leaders” on defense; there’s no presence or attitude on that side of the ball. I’m not talking performative nonsense but something that says when we’re on d .. you better be strapped up and ready to go because we’re going to make you earn everything. They certainly don’t have an identity or know what they’re trying to be .. though I guess hot mess could be that identity.

We lack a man in the middle of the defensive line who can eat blocks, take up space, push the middle of the pocket and allow the linebackers to flow.

Is wanting a linebacker who doesn’t over pursue and can step into a ******* hole and bury a guy too much to ask for?

New season. Growing pains and all that. Last night was a brutal exhibition of defense in our home opener.

21 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Tackling has become an epidemic on D. The % of play stops in the form of tackles at the 2nd and 3rd level is sickening.

These guys have been tackling all their lives but it's probably doesn't help that the Bombers have had a total of 4 practices, barely played their starters in preseason and now are going on a bye.

I actually think a guy like Santos-Knox brings that no-nonsense attitude to defense. I think he was brought in to shore up some of the attitude issues. It's too bad he's hurt. But color Me concerned for our defense.

39 minutes ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

I don't think it is any exaggeration to say Zach had had more guys open on those intermediate routes in two games then all of last year combined. WTF were we even doing last year?

Someone asked if Nichols was cooked. At the stadium, it sure looked that way. A step behind, and missed a bunch of tackles when he was in the right spot. I actually thought Moxey was in decent coverage half the time but you would think a vet like him would know how to look for the damn ball.

Yeah, Moxey had a bad night, but you’re right a few times he was in good position to make a play, but never looked for the ball. Even down our sideline, where you know guys are shouting, “ball, ball, ball!”…. He didn’t get his damn head around. Crazy lack of awareness.

Did anyone have on their bingo cards that Million Dollar Lawler would have the third most receiving yards from former Bombers on the Ti-Cats after 2 games?

47 minutes ago, ShyGuy said:

Kind of felt like a weird game all around. Collaros played really well but they couldn't get Brady going at all on the ground. Leaving 11 points in the red zone was effectively the difference in the game. Those two long pauses in the first half (Peters going down, who sounds like he is doing alright, and the Incomplete, Challenge, Challenge sequence) seemed to suck the energy out of the offense.

On defense it never felt like they could actually stop anything. It felt like Roundtree was getting them 2nd and medium consistently and then Bo would find someone underneath for the first down. Those two long Wheatfall receptions seemed like they were pretty well defended Moxey just couldn't get a hand in there.

I'm disappointed that the West side upper deck seemed to run out of popcorn by the third quarter.

Just a comment on Moxey. Sure he was close but he was unable to "get a hand in there", because he is tiny (trying to be diplomatic here) and Wheatfall, who is listed at 6'01", towered over him. I looked at the game/roster sheet and the Bombers have Moxey listed at 5'10". Sure, maybe on skates. At his real height and his age (31), he may be "too veteran".

44 minutes ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

I don't think it is any exaggeration to say Zach had had more guys open on those intermediate routes in two games then all of last year combined. WTF were we even doing last year?

Someone asked if Nichols was cooked. At the stadium, it sure looked that way. A step behind, and missed a bunch of tackles when he was in the right spot. I actually thought Moxey was in decent coverage half the time but you would think a vet like him would know how to look for the damn ball.

Last year the right side of our line couldn't pass protect. This year the left side of our line is struggling with assignments in run blocking. Hamilton picked up on Bryant cheating up to 2nd level on inside zone. We don't really run wide zone much, so the inside zone is our bread and butter. Hamilton blitzed very effectively to capitalize on Bryant's assignment weakness. We need to secure first level, the first 3-4 yards, before we're chasing guys 8-10 yards down field on play side.

10 minutes ago, ShyGuy said:

These guys have been tackling all their lives but it's probably doesn't help that the Bombers have had a total of 4 practices, barely played their starters in preseason and now are going on a bye.

No one is practicing full contact after high school. Even high school it's basically summer camp and once you're playing games practices are light contact. Practice is basically about game planning.

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by JuranBoldenRules

8 minutes ago, ShyGuy said:

These guys have been tackling all their lives but it's probably doesn't help that the Bombers have had a total of 4 practices, barely played their starters in preseason and now are going on a bye.

Tackling is dirty hard work. Execution of tackling is a big indicator of discipline and motor. When its sharp, you see defenders gang tackling and holding guys up while others go for hits instead of trying for hits off the bat.

Its the canary in the coalmine of every D.

Its hard to be keyed up physically to be relentless and physical on D, when you don't have high energy/physical practices.

12 minutes ago, captaincanuck12 said:

I actually think a guy like Santos-Knox brings that no-nonsense attitude to defense. I think he was brought in to shore up some of the attitude issues. It's too bad he's hurt. But color Me concerned for our defense.

100%. I think JSK would've been a great fit in every way, if he was physically up to snuff.

8 minutes ago, BomberBall. said:

Yeah, Moxey had a bad night, but you’re right a few times he was in good position to make a play, but never looked for the ball. Even down our sideline, where you know guys are shouting, “ball, ball, ball!”…. He didn’t get his damn head around. Crazy lack of awareness.

When you see this, what is almost always happening (with a vet) is they are not in position to turn their head and look. Its US football obviously, but here is a pretty good video breaking this down.

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by wbbfan

Moxey could have made some plays... but as I said before BLM and Wheatfall and company were making some absolutely sick throws and catches. BLM turned back the clock 10 years last night. It was a game where we had to play at our best (on D) and unfortunately they did not.

19 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Tackling is dirty hard work. Execution of tackling is a big indicator of discipline and motor. When its sharp, you see defenders gang tackling and holding guys up while others go for hits instead of trying for hits off the bat.

Its the canary in the coalmine of every D.

Its hard to be keyed up physically to be relentless and physical on D, when you don't have high energy/physical practices.

100%. I think JSK would've been a great fit in every way, if he was physically up to snuff.

When you see this, what is almost always happening (with a vet) is they are not in position to turn their head and look. Its US football obviously, but here is a pretty good video breaking this down.

Thanks for that video. That was an incredible watch for someone like me who is used to listening to Suitor.

On the first deep shot to Wheatfall, Moxey is literally running the route, but not covering Wheatfall at all. But he's in the wrong leverage the whole time so he can't stay on that track to make the play when Wheatfall adjusts to ball to the inside shoulder.

When QB reads a DB in bad leverage like that on man, on a vertical they are going to get toasted because the receiver just has to out run the DB.

2 minutes ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

Thanks for that video. That was an incredible watch for someone like me who is used to listening to Suitor.

No problem, that is hilarious lol.

Boykins kicked around the NFL prs a while, does some great work coaching DBs down south. He has excellent YT content, though it hasn't taken off yet. His video on off-man coverage is great, too. That is something that has long been a struggle here, too deep(soft) zone and playing off cover too passively.

Appreciate all the x and o talk and the candor from folks on the board.

I also appreciate Jordan Younger and our defense for making all of this talk possible.

My take …

QB:

very good to great save for the pick, which I still think should have netted us at least a RTP

Receivers:

Nield, Wilson, Demski, White in that order all very good to great (didn’t notice anyone else on the rec core)

RB: needs more reps but the score obviously dictated somewhat

Oline:

needs improvement

Dline:

missing in action

LB:

see dline

DB:

see dline

ST:

returning was OK

Kicking:

Good but needs to be better

Punting:

Didn’t notice so must be OK

Coaching:

Offence - great

Defence - not so great

Head coach - Meh

47 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Tackling is dirty hard work. Execution of tackling is a big indicator of discipline and motor. When its sharp, you see defenders gang tackling and holding guys up while others go for hits instead of trying for hits off the bat.

Its the canary in the coalmine of every D.

Its hard to be keyed up physically to be relentless and physical on D, when you don't have high energy/physical practices.

100%. I think JSK would've been a great fit in every way, if he was physically up to snuff.

When you see this, what is almost always happening (with a vet) is they are not in position to turn their head and look. Its US football obviously, but here is a pretty good video breaking this down.

That’s a great video. The Moxey play was a bit different in that it was closer to the sideline, from my recollection, so less of a fade window and he would’ve been told when the ball was coming, presumably.

I like how he breaks stuff down and really explains the importance of early footwork. I’m going to check out more of his stuff.

What a bloody disgrace of football, when your Defensive backs can't seem to remember how to basically cover a receiver or tackle....Cats were having their way with them..Bo Levi in particular....What a let down after the Cal game...Younger's game planning for Mitchell's aerial assault just plain stunk....Not only did the Cats embarrass the hell out of our secondary they rubbed our nose in it....Surprisingly I thought Zack played a good game except for the pic....He was hitting our receivers and spreading the ball around quite well...Didn't run Brady enough and he was stuffed a few times , probably why they went away from him in the early going...Despite our pathetic defensive back performance our receivers came through to at least make the loss a little more bearable...small consolation ....We have to revamp the secondary in a hurry for the next one or get butchered once again...

I feel like, if it was a talent issue... There's no way they would have broken camp with this collection of guys. So it has to be more about scheme and possibly some execution of that scheme.

All of that to say that I think it's fixable... But maybe that's blue and gold coloured glasses.

4 minutes ago, BomberBall. said:

That’s a great video. The Moxey play was a bit different in that it was closer to the sideline, from my recollection, so less of a fade window and he would’ve been told when the ball was coming, presumably.

I like how he breaks stuff down and really explains the importance of early footwork. I’m going to check out more of his stuff.

I believe you are right, in that it was closer to the sidelines. He didn't have good leverage, though. And it is harder to have great leverage in the CFL, but it's also so much more important. We have 10x more throws that can be made on every play, so the DBs really need to be using leverage to take something away on every play.

Yeah its very short and precise. Great content from fans to players and coaches.

3 minutes ago, Stickem said:

What a bloody disgrace of football, when your Defensive backs can't seem to remember how to basically cover a receiver or tackle....Cats were having their way with them..Bo Levi in particular....What a let down after the Cal game...Younger's game planning for Mitchell's aerial assault just plain stunk....Not only did the Cats embarrass the hell out of our secondary they rubbed our nose in it....Surprisingly I thought Zack played a good game except for the pic....He was hitting our receivers and spreading the ball around quite well...Didn't run Brady enough and he was stuffed a few times , probably why they went away from him in the early going...Despite our pathetic defensive back performance our receivers came through to at least make the loss a little more bearable...small consolation ....We have to revamp the secondary in a hurry for the next one or get butchered once again...

If you give most teams in the CFL what we gave the cats, they will beat you much of the time. BLM, will beat you every single time and walk away doing it.