3 turds plus ch fin des emissions

[bb1]

1 hour ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

https://www.bluebombers.com/roster/

Yea well can't let the truth get in the way of a good rant! Put em all on the practice roster!

Edited 19 hours ago by bb1

[rebusrankin]

Its clear changes need to be made, its unclear we will see them.

On Miller-Great at the off the field stuff, ie ticket sales, game day experience, promotions, not sure about the on field or whether he'll fire his buddies.

On Walters-He didn't do a great job this year or the past few.

On MOS-Great overall, future dude with a statue and name on the Ring of Honour, poor roster management, been here 11 years, maybe a time for a change.

[Tracker]

4 hours ago, bigg jay said:

Handle it internally - Jake Thomas player/coach/gm!

 

A fate worse than death.

[wbbfan]

52 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

Its clear changes need to be made, its unclear we will see them.

On Miller-Great at the off the field stuff, ie ticket sales, game day experience, promotions, not sure about the on field or whether he'll fire his buddies.

On Walters-He didn't do a great job this year or the past few.

On MOS-Great overall, future dude with a statue and name on the Ring of Honour, poor roster management, been here 11 years, maybe a time for a change.

on walters, I think we had a great draft and we had several key rookie imps. Allen, woodbey, vaval, plus the peterson trade, the rookie des in the last game, bailey, etc. We also did very well in the draft, and 180’d our teams in all facets from one year to the next because of it. 

We busted bad in free agency and resigning period. 
 Then you have the X factor of guys like vanterpool, who as a guard was our best ol and at worst average as a starting T. We also cycled in some pretty good improvements in the secondary. 

 

The big problem is the decisions of when we replace guys. Why did it take soo damn long to get guys like woodbey and allen in? That’s not on walters. 

Walters needs to be better, especially in free agency. Also, in being the boss of football ops. Not his coaches lakey. But it doesn’t matter who we bring in if we don’t play them. Or if we run them into the ground while they are hurt like with strev, zach, and schoen. 

[Brandon]

Walters was the guy that extended Zach for big bucks...  I'm 50/50 on him.    

[wbbfan]

2 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Walters was the guy that extended Zach for big bucks...  I'm 50/50 on him.    

And too early, that’s a legit knock. Year to year I get it. I mean while i’m well past ready to move on from zach, who do you get this year that you can improve on zachs upside? I don’t see much opportunity. 

 Also, I do get the free agency approach. We had more gaps than we could fill and couldn’t afford top tier replacements so we tried to go with volume. It was a sound approach imo, but when the cap went up we should’ve swung for the fences. 

As ugly as our wr core was to end it, i don’t think lawler is the difference for us. 

[blueingreenland]

5 hours ago, voodoochylde said:

Genuinely curious: if we cleaned house this season who do you look at as a potential GM and HC?  

The last time we cleaned house we hired Mike Kelly. The time before it was Jeff Reinbold. Just saying.

15 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

And too early, that’s a legit knock. Year to year I get it. I mean while i’m well past ready to move on from zach, who do you get this year that you can improve on zachs upside? I don’t see much opportunity. 

 

If Zach stays next year, we need a couple of upgrades on the O-line...otherwise we'll be lucky to get 9 games out of him.

[wbbfan]

5 minutes ago, blueingreenland said:

The last time we cleaned house we hired Mike Kelly. The time before it was Jeff Reinbold. Just saying.

The franchise, and football era is nothing like either of those times though. The worst part of those moves is 1) we didn’t do our due diligence to realize kelly was crazy and awful, 2) that reinbold shouldn’t have been doing both jobs. He would have been ok as just a coach imo. 

Both of those messes also lead us to build the mafia as ritchie eras. 

 

We need Ol upgrades and changes no matter who is playing. Over the hill gangs time is done. 

Edited 17 hours ago by wbbfan

[blueingreenland]

1 minute ago, wbbfan said:

The franchise, and football era is nothing like either of those times though. 

You are quite right. However, after going to 5 straight Grey Cups and following that up with a disappointing season (where we made the playoffs and had double digit wins), a sane Wade Miller will not overreact and clean house. The chances that a less competent regime would follow this one are more likely than not. Changes? Sure! Cleaning house? That's asinine!

[coach17]

23 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

The franchise, and football era is nothing like either of those times though. The worst part of those moves is 1) we didn’t do our due diligence to realize kelly was crazy and awful, 2) that reinbold shouldn’t have been doing both jobs. He would have been ok as just a coach imo. 

Both of those messes also lead us to build the mafia as ritchie eras. 

 

We need Ol upgrades and changes no matter who is playing. Over the hill gangs time is done. 

Kelly had a previous history here as offensive coordinator and did decent. At the time he never exhibited any of the batshit crazy that his head coaching tenor had. Reinbold has never been Head Coach or GM material, he has a pretty good Special Teams resume and that should have been the highest level we hired him for. Two of the biggest mistakes other than promotion of Tim Burke Bombers management have ever made. 

[wbbfan]

24 minutes ago, coach17 said:

Kelly had a previous history here as offensive coordinator and did decent. At the time he never exhibited any of the batshit crazy that his head coaching tenor had. Reinbold has never been Head Coach or GM material, he has a pretty good Special Teams resume and that should have been the highest level we hired him for. Two of the biggest mistakes other than promotion of Tim Burke Bombers management have ever made. 

from ages before with no one in the org that worked with him little on had worked with in recently. 

He’s been more than pretty good as a teams coach and as a co at multiple levels. He was also good as an ast hc before coming here, which is why he got the job. The life style didn’t fit him and that’s why he didn’t go back to try and be a hc again. He got offers in hamilton and in the ncaa. 

 He was never cut out for a gm role, and almost no one should do both jobs alone full time. 

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, wbbfan said:

And too early, that’s a legit knock. Year to year I get it. I mean while i’m well past ready to move on from zach, who do you get this year that you can improve on zachs upside? I don’t see much opportunity. 

 Also, I do get the free agency approach. We had more gaps than we could fill and couldn’t afford top tier replacements so we tried to go with volume. It was a sound approach imo, but when the cap went up we should’ve swung for the fences. 

As ugly as our wr core was to end it, i don’t think lawler is the difference for us. 

Why couldn't we afford some top tier replacemnts in free agency? Remember the salary cap went up after free agency started & Walters refused to acknowledge it saying he didn't believe it was an actual increase. That the increase announced publicly would go to pensions. He blamed the CFLPA for his decision not to spend.

[wbbfan]

50 minutes ago, blueingreenland said:

You are quite right. However, after going to 5 straight Grey Cups and following that up with a disappointing season (where we made the playoffs and had double digit wins), a sane Wade Miller will not overreact and clean house. The chances that a less competent regime would follow this one are more likely than not. Changes? Sure! Cleaning house? That's asinine!

going to 3 straight gcs and losing, especially in the brutal way we have to back up qbs isn’t a win, it’s a loss. 

You’re right though, to clean house and upgrade right away is hard for that to happen and the team to improve right away is even harder. We also have to face the reality that we likely will lose guys we don’t want to and have a lot of holes to fill. 

If we pick one, mos is the worst of the two by far imo. But he’s hard to replace. If we got dinwiddie with walters that’d give us a chance, but the roster rebuild could leave us any where first to last. 

3 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Why couldn't we afford some top tier replacemnts in free agency? Remember the salary cap went up after free agency started & Walters refused to acknowledge it saying he didn't believe it was an actual increase. That the increase announced publicly would go to pensions. He blamed the CFLPA for his decision not to spend.

we spent a lot retaining guys. the previous team had a lot of guys playing on rookie scale deals or back up deals. 
After the increase came, we should’ve been aggressive. especially in that situation. that was a major failure of the franchise 

[SpeedFlex27]

10 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

 

we spent a lot retaining guys. the previous team had a lot of guys playing on rookie scale deals or back up deals. 
After the increase came, we should’ve been aggressive. especially in that situation. that was a major failure of the franchise 

This past off season, Walters lost my support. We make such a big deal hosting the Grey Cup & our GM acted like it really meant nothing.  Refusing to spend any money while watching a couple of big free agents walk. We all kept waiting for a big signing which never came. His sitting on his ass while blaming the CFLPA for it was the last straw for me. 

Edited 16 hours ago by SpeedFlex27

[wbbfan]

2 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

This past off season, Walters lost mybsupport. We make such a big deal hosing the Grey Cup & our GM acted like it really meant nothing.  Refusing to spend any money while watching a couple of big free agents walk. We all kept waiting for a big signing which never came. His sitting on his ass while blaming the CFLPA for it was the last straw for me. 

I think that was an organizational approach, not just walters. We chose to spend that money on full pr pay, extending the pr with the 1 game ir, and with wilson. 

Just like drafting only for teams with the value picks this year. 

Walters should be making stronger lead the franchise choices, but he isn’t. that’s his biggest failing imo. Both guys have performed at a level where they deserve a boot, but i think walters is the one you can do more with and get more out of. 

[SpeedFlex27]

9 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

I think that was an organizational approach, not just walters. We chose to spend that money on full pr pay, extending the pr with the 1 game ir, and with wilson. 

Just like drafting only for teams with the value picks this year. 

Walters should be making stronger lead the franchise choices, but he isn’t. that’s his biggest failing imo. Both guys have performed at a level where they deserve a boot, but i think walters is the one you can do more with and get more out of. 

As has been said before, Walters needs to act like an actual GM with Osh. He answers to Walters. He neds to know that he has to field his best lineup every game, If he can't do that then it's time to part ways. 

Edited 16 hours ago by SpeedFlex27

[SpeedFlex27]

Doug Brown summed it up nicely on X about 6 hours ago:

"I think the frustration with this season does not lie in the reality that the championship era has come to a close. It's that it feels like the team never gave itself the best chance by what they didn't do to fill the cupboard. This season was a proverbial knife to a gunfight." 

Yep, that's on Walters & maybe even Miller. A huge organizational blunder. 

 

[wbbfan]

6 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Doug Brown summed it up nicely on X about 6 hours ago:

"I think the frustration with this season does not lie in the reality that the championship era has come to a close. It's that it feels like the team never gave itself the best chance by what they didn't do to fill the cupboard. This season was a proverbial knife to a gunfight." 

Yep, that's on Walters & maybe even Miller. A huge organizational blunder. 

 

yup. handicapped our self out of championships, out of contention and out of being good. 

If we had played a hard, tough game and lost to a more talented team or slightly better coached team that’d be fine. it’s not that we need to crush titles every year, we just need to not be blue collar. play physical, play a full game, don’t get blown out of the water physically etc 

[Goalie]

I don’t like Zach saying he’s hopes the core group is back and if not then he has options. I mean honestly, the core group needs to be changed, Brady can stay. Demski can stay. Pokey can stay on O. The rest? Not including Wallace Randolph vanterpool need to go. The core on D of Jake Willie Kyrie and maybe even Parker and Nichols needs to change.  Sterns is a good 3 receiver. I’d keep him also and Clercius. I guess in reality, the O changes should be o line and scheme. The D? Some players need to change. 
 

we need a center. A guard. A tackle. A receiver better than Mitchell. And a new OC and prob should look at QB 2. 
 

D? That’s where the majority of change needs to be. Entire DL.  Probably ideally Kyrie and Tony if we got the cdn kids. Couple DBs. 

Edited 6 hours ago by Goalie

[ddanger]

11 hours ago, wbbfan said:

And too early, that’s a legit knock. Year to year I get it. I mean while i’m well past ready to move on from zach, who do you get this year that you can improve on zachs upside? I don’t see much opportunity. 

 Also, I do get the free agency approach. We had more gaps than we could fill and couldn’t afford top tier replacements so we tried to go with volume. It was a sound approach imo, but when the cap went up we should’ve swung for the fences. 

As ugly as our wr core was to end it, i don’t think lawler is the difference for us. 

We lost what nine guys to Hamilton ?? never mind guys we moved on from. While it may have been good to retain Lawler, I agree I don't think he woulda made a difference. I just can't believe that in a cup year we didn't go all in. 

[3rdand1.5]

My 2 cents.. 

Wbb summed it up pretty good, Walters did some really good things, but many of them didn't see the roster. 

We seemed to have luck letting guys on the O line go to other teams for years always having the next guy....but then we seemed to stop drafting for position and drafted best athletes, but didn't always utilize them. This has been a slow process but came to a head this season.

D-line for years we didn't prioritize spending, it has worked, with Willy as our only "prize" we have done this for years, but this year Willy's play fell off, Daughters was good, dependable but not great....and we suffered  from it.

Coaching MOS has always had good to great coordinators, some may not like Buck but the guy is a really well liked very good coach, going with Hogan was a miss. Can't sugar coat it, it was miss. Jackson, is a bit of an enigma....what did he do this year....

MOS appeared more stressed and flustered this year...why I feel the loss of guys like Andrew Harris, Biggie, Hardwick etc. that he stated were like coaches actually helped him more than we realize...not only did they both lead in exceptional capacity MOS trusted and had faith in them in assisting. He had full faith in Buck and Buck did tons behind the scenes to help....take all that away and MOS lost too many helping hands. We have leaders but they are not the same. 

Miller (sp teams coach) has filled in some of those roles and it would not suprise me in the least to see him continue and develop into a very good coach with expanded roles one day.

I feel MOS without all the between input he was used to get "fumbled" a fair bit this year...I still believe he has some great qualities, but like any human he has weaknesses also...he needs the right guys around him to fill his weaknesses and we didn't give him that this year...

We needed leadership and experience, but it appears this year we went to the well a bit too deep...it was clear the roster management could have used younger arguably more talented guys many times, but we rolled out the veterans....I do I understand the thought process, but as we step back it's clear now some of this thought process hindered the overall betterment of the team.

In closing I believe Walters and Osh can get us out of this, Walters needs to focus on and spend on the lines. Osh needs to be surrounded with great coordinators, and he needs to start to move on as tough as it will be for him from some of his veterans....

[JuranBoldenRules]

11 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Why couldn't we afford some top tier replacemnts in free agency? Remember the salary cap went up after free agency started & Walters refused to acknowledge it saying he didn't believe it was an actual increase. That the increase announced publicly would go to pensions. He blamed the CFLPA for his decision not to spend.

Like who?  Again look at the free agent list.  A lot of guys who made very little impact.  Edmonton and Ottawa signed everyone.  Where were they?

Keep Lawler is the main one.  Maybe go nuts to sign Geno Lewis too.  The next best receiver was Hollins who is busted up and barely played, bounced around the league this year.

Main thing is scouting and recruiting.  Which has been in steep decline since 22.

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 hour ago, ddanger said:

We lost what nine guys to Hamilton ?? never mind guys we moved on from. While it may have been good to retain Lawler, I agree I don't think he woulda made a difference. I just can't believe that in a cup year we didn't go all in. 

Lawler would have made a huge difference.  Collaros had basically one receiver he trusted for most of the season in Demski.  Wilson he has good rapport with.  Sterns it was developing.

We had no big targets, catch radius guys, and we have a QB that is fixated on taking vertical shots.  Lawler is probably the best guy in this era for the style Collaros thrives in.

If you're going all in you keep Lawler and probably go hard at someone like Geno Lewis.  You have Lawler, Schoen, Lewis. 

For the most part the rest of the free agents wouldn't have changed anything for us.  It was a lot of pretty average DB's and OL.  Like if we sign a David Beard are we a better team?  Probably not.  We got probably the 3rd best DL available in Vaughters.  Ceresna was always going to Edmonton and they paid out the nose to try to bring most of Toronto's DL west.

The fail here is 3 seasons of needing to improve the bottom third of the roster and find/develop the next round of impact guys.  What do we have to show for those training camps?  Ontaria Wilson?  We're recycling DB's now, we've got no impact DL, a couple OL who look ok in Randolph and Vanterpool.  Wallace might take a step next year just in time to get paid.

[TBURGESS]

Lawler would have probably meant 2 extra wins, which equals a home game in the playoffs and a chance to go further than we did. 

[wbbfan]

1 minute ago, TBURGESS said:

Lawler would have probably meant 2 extra wins, which equals a home game in the playoffs and a chance to go further than we did. 

Lawler would’ve made us better, but our passing game /offence was soo bad I think he would’ve just been under used, like brady. I don’t think he would’ve put us over calgary or bc. 
Now if we fire hogan early or never make him oc, and keep lawler, then I think you are right.