3 stars plus HH bc sucks series win

[wbbfan]

2 hours ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

Vaval will break one.

He’s 2nd in the league in pr yards, despite all the other guys having a game played on him, and first in avg. he’s only got 3 ko returns but his 29 yards per is in the top group of guys. Most of whom have broken one and have 3-4 times more returns this year. 
 

Hes been exceptional so far, when he does break one he’s probably going to go on a run and have silly averages. 
 

Im interested to see what Logan can do as an offensive rotational guy, but if he isn’t healthy soon he might not have a path to make the AR. 
 

On top of that, vaval looked really good at times at db in pre season. 

 

[3rdand1.5]

Good

All our DB's

All our LB's (that played)

Wheetfall

Eli with a TD......

Specials

BC's Team Ted shirts

2and 0

Bad

2nd half Zach

Didn't love some of teh play calls on O especially in the 3rd

O-line wasn't great

Willie getting himself ejected

Clercuius had a bad game, no ifs and butts, if he is hurt sit him and let him get healthy

 

Ugly

Listening to TSN go on and on and on about Rourke....

Lack of depth at NI reciever-Clercuous played hurt and Demski clearly was hurting.....We need better depth here

Lack of D-line depth....more specifically end....Willie and Vaughters are older, and while still good, I strongly believe they need to be spelled off more

 

1 minute ago, wbbfan said:

He’s 2nd in the league in pr yards, despite all the other guys having a game played on him, and first in avg. he’s only got 3 ko returns but his 29 yards per is in the top group of guys. Most of whom have broken one and have 3-4 times more returns this year. 
 

Hes been exceptional so far, when he does break one he’s probably going to go on a run and have silly averages. 
 

Im interested to see what Logan can do as an offensive rotational guy, but if he isn’t healthy soon he might not have a path to make the AR. 
 

On top of that, vaval looked really good at times at db in pre season. 

 

I also question the bolded part....I think each week that path is getting narrower

[brett_c_b]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

Our DL is so old... they desperately need an injection of youth and speed at the position. Lawson was the only guy being disruptive out there, everything else came from linebackers.

Jokes on you, the game summary I read that was negative about everything raved about Jake Thomas blocking the entire line by himself, already forwarded it to coach for his bulletin board

[Booch]

1 hour ago, rebusrankin said:

Pearson needs to get a shot 

Several guys need a shot...and a couple need a seat on the PR or IR

Our 2 older ends would thrive with a youthful upside rotation end...and consistent inside push with a combo of Adams...Lawson and Woods...

Did Korn get more than 2 reps? Even so he not cfl caliber...we seen all too well how many reps Thomas got and how for the majority of the reps hes just pointless...and times he does show a lil push in pocket has nothing left or ability to get off his block and make a play...let alone have any backside pursuit...he needs to be off roster...his "glue" isn't serving any purpose...we have more than enough glue guys on defence

And T.Jones needs to be impactfull and noticeable if he your MLB and make plays all over the place..and he isn't...hes decent in the box or crashing down...but in space...coverage...or sidlene to sideline hes a liability and basically invisible...

When BO is back we be better served using Person for Cooley spot...Bailey for Weitz...did he even see feild?..insert J.Jones for one of T.Jones or wilson and allow Ayers and J.Jones to take majority of reps...Griffin too should be our SAM...he'd be a league allstar as a full-time starter...

For what Sterns gives us and has shown I'd also give Mitchell the next games...he if dialed in is a legit threat and woukd give more space for the other receivers to work..Sterns is just run of he mill average...

39 minutes ago, 3rdand1.5 said:

Good

All our DB's

All our LB's (that played)

Wheetfall

Eli with a TD......

Specials

BC's Team Ted shirts

2and 0

Bad

2nd half Zach

Didn't love some of teh play calls on O especially in the 3rd

O-line wasn't great

Willie getting himself ejected

Clercuius had a bad game, no ifs and butts, if he is hurt sit him and let him get healthy

 

Ugly

Listening to TSN go on and on and on about Rourke....

Lack of depth at NI reciever-Clercuous played hurt and Demski clearly was hurting.....We need better depth here

Lack of D-line depth....more specifically end....Willie and Vaughters are older, and while still good, I strongly believe they need to be spelled off more

 

I also question the bolded part....I think each week that path is getting narrower

Why we didnt pick up Hakanuva is baffling...he'd have offered more than what we have behind our starters...I'd even try 3 national recievers with him in lineup to free up an import for defence or oline...

[17to85]

1 hour ago, Fatty Liver said:

That's two games BC has been unable to establish a running game with a pretty good running back, the defence as an entity is playing superbly.

They are playing superbly... now imagine what they might do with a better defensive line...

[SpeedFlex27]

I know no one feel sorry for me but... being Saturday even with a monsoon I had things to do. The plan was to pvr bothj games then around 6;30 or 7pm MDT, sit down & start watching the Bomber game & staying off social media so I wouldn't know who was winning. Then after the Bomber game, watch the Ottawa@Stamps game from earlier yesterday. A Saturday night of CFL which I love.

So, about 6:30 pm when I finally had some free time, I went downstairs, sat down turned on the tv only to discover that I forgot to pvr both games. Missed the entire Stamps vs Ottawa game but was "lucky" to be able to watch the last 11:49 seconds of the fourth quarter of the Bombers@Lions game. I can tell you, my wife knew from upstairs how unhappy I was... My drink I had planned to sip on, some Canadian Club was finished in one gulp. I could have sworn I pvr'd both games. Senior moment. 

[wbbfan]

28 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

They are playing superbly... now imagine what they might do with a better defensive line...

A couple adjustments and we’d have a better D than 21. 
 Jake 10 reps or less per game. Kyrie out to pasture, Jjones on with tony sliding to wil and sitting on passing downs situationally, get an end on to rotate, maybe work vaval in on the D some. 

[Booch]

48 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

They are playing superbly... now imagine what they might do with a better defensive line...

And 2 better linebackers....well 3 really...Griffin should be sam

[Fatty Liver]

35 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I know no one feel sorry for me but... being Saturday even with a monsoon I had things to do. The plan was to pvr bothj games then around 6;30 or 7pm MDT, sit down & start watching the Bomber game & staying off social media so I wouldn't know who was winning. Then after the Bomber game, watch the Ottawa@Stamps game from earlier yesterday. A Saturday night of CFL which I love.

So, about 6:30 pm when I finally had some free time, I went downstairs, sat down turned on the tv only to discover that I forgot to pvr both games. Missed the entire Stamps vs Ottawa game but was "lucky" to be able to watch the last 11:49 seconds of the fourth quarter of the Bombers@Lions game. I can tell you, my wife knew from upstairs how unhappy I was... My drink I had planned to sip on, some Canadian Club was finished in one gulp. I could have sworn I pvr'd both games. Senior moment. 

If you have a VPN you can re-watch the games on CFL+ right now, Germany is a good location to view from.  If not Waders27 will probably have the condensed broadcast up on YouTube within a few days.

[Pete]

I thought Thomas had a decent game, and the dline had a lot of pressures, leading to interceptions and near ones.

Its much improved to ly. The only criticism is that we didn't sign a quality cdn in off season such as Green or an olineman so we could have a di defensive lineman to rotate in and develop ie persons.I do also agree that Kornelson isn't a god use of roster spot

Edited yesterday at 08:39 PM by Pete

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 hour ago, Fatty Liver said:

If you have a VPN you can re-watch the games on CFL+ right now, Germany is a good location to view from.  If not Waders27 will probably have the condensed broadcast up on YouTube within a few days.

CFL should really do a "game in 30" kind of deal.  Really easy to do with football take out all the breaks and a bit of time between plays.

[Booch]

11 minutes ago, Pete said:

I thought Thomas had a decent game, and the dline had a lot of pressures, leading to interceptions and near ones.

Its much improved to ly. The only criticism is that we didn't sign a quality cdn in off season such as Green or an olineman so we could have a di defensive lineman to rotate in and develop ie persons.I do also agree that Kornelson isn't a god use of roster spot

The pressures thst lead to the int's was direct result of Lawson...not thomas

[Noeller]

42 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

CFL should really do a "game in 30" kind of deal.  Really easy to do with football take out all the breaks and a bit of time between plays.

Bombers produced a 25-minute condensed game.... Watched that this afternoon. 

[Fatty Liver]

26 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Bombers produced a 25-minute condensed game.... Watched that this afternoon. 

 

[Brandon]

5 hours ago, Fatty Liver said:

That's two games BC has been unable to establish a running game with a pretty good running back, the defence as an entity is playing superbly.

Butler was super effective as a dump off receiver in the back field back in 2022.   It appears Pierce hasn't watched the tape from back then when it worked. 

1 hour ago, Pete said:

I thought Thomas had a decent game, and the dline had a lot of pressures, leading to interceptions and near ones.

If you have the game on PVR or have the link on YouTube re watch Thomas.   I watched for him on every play and he was getting rag dolled and tossed around with ease.   I think he pushed back Couture only twice in the whole game,  otherwise he was getting flinged around with great ease.   

[Booch]

4 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Butler was super effective as a dump off receiver in the back field back in 2022.   It appears Pierce hasn't watched the tape from back then when it worked. 

If you have the game on PVR or have the link on YouTube re watch Thomas.   I watched for him on every play and he was getting rag dolled and tossed around with ease.   I think he pushed back Couture only twice in the whole game,  otherwise he was getting flinged around with great ease.   

Yeah...that's pretty much it...on the Holm int i believe..Lawson had penetration and vaughters came thru and drilled masoli...Thomas got engaged and thrown to the turf...one of many instances...he serves zero effectiveness out there...1...maybe 2 plays a game is not optimal...that's being generous too..

[deepsixemtoboyd]

20 hours ago, Noeller said:

Agreed... I'm just hoping he's knocking off rust and not getting progressively worse. I don't know enough to know enough.

Well, he’s definitely not getting better! He’s seven years on the wrong side of 30. His arm strength and escapability have both diminished, even considerably.
And Osh will ride him to the bitter end.

Strev, 7 yrs younger, was light years better last week.

[Booch]

2 minutes ago, deepsixemtoboyd said:

Well, he’s definitely not getting better! He’s seven years on the wrong side of 30. His arm strength and escapability have both diminished, even considerably.
And Osh will ride him to the bitter end.

Strev, 7 yrs younger, was light years better last week.

I think ZC also now is a bit skittish mentally and spooks too easily now...well since 2023 when he got popped in that edm game...his slide started after he got back from that and hes never looked the same..well not consistently or sustainably

[deepsixemtoboyd]

21 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

It's a matter of protection. 

Yeah he's not what he was in 2021.  But the protection is not good enough and far worse than it was in 2021 too.  It's been getting progressively worse.  He needs a clean pocket.  You build the team to do that.  It's the only way we win.  You figure out kick coverage, catching punts, whatever spots you need to, but you get a OL out there that can pass protect with whoever you need any roster designation.

Disagree that protection was the issue last night. Collaros had adequate time for the most part (was he even sacked?) and was going through his progressions. With the two pics, he threw off his back foot. Rainbow throws. The fact that he doesn’t eat those or throw it out of bounds is not on the oline.

Edited yesterday at 11:21 PM by deepsixemtoboyd

[Noeller]

Was sacked at least once and rushed a few times. I think JBRs point (and forgive me if I'm wrong here) is that maybe Zach needs better than "adequate time" in the pocket to be lethal. I still believe he has the ability... But he needs more around him than he did in 2022 when he lit the world on fire. Now, you can have the debate about "he's making too much money to need that much help" debate all you want, but the point remains... He needs a very specific set of tools to be truly successful.

Edited yesterday at 11:26 PM by Noeller

[WinnipegGordo]

2 hours ago, Noeller said:

Bombers produced a 25-minute condensed game.... Watched that this afternoon. 

And TSN and CFL normally post 10 minute highlight packages shortly after the game ends.

 

 

[deepsixemtoboyd]

6 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Was sacked at least once and rushed a few times. I think JBRs point (and forgive me if I'm wrong here) is that maybe Zach needs better than "adequate time" in the pocket to be lethal. I still believe he has the ability... But he needs more around him than he did in 2022 when he lit the world on fire. Now, you can have the debate about "he's making too much money to need that much help" debate all you want, but the point remains... He needs a very specific set of tools to be truly successful.

OK, so we’re agreed that his skills are diminished. And, it would appear he needs quite a bit of help just to be more than meh, let alone “lethal”.

I think that his own diminishment is by far the biggest factor in his struggles and that the o-line was definitely good enough yesterday for a good quarterback to be successful. And he was…on one drive.
After that, not so much.

The bombers need a plan, immediate and mid to longer term, that takes their starter’s diminished skills into account. Maybe they have one. But if the best predictor of future behaviour is past behavior, the bombers’ plan is likely to ride this veteran way too long (exhibit a: see one Adam Bighill).

[Booch]

21 minutes ago, deepsixemtoboyd said:

Disagree that protection was the issue last night. Collaros had adequate time for the most part (was he even sacked?) and was going through his progressions. With the two pics, he threw off his back foot. Rainbow throws. The fact that he doesn’t eat those or throw it out of bounds is not on the oline.

Yup...I rewatched and the line wasn't an issue like some make it out to be...it was more a ZC issue..the ones that were apparent last yr already 

 

14 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Was sacked at least once and rushed a few times. I think JBRs point (and forgive me if I'm wrong here) is that maybe Zach needs better than "adequate time" in the pocket to be lethal. I still believe he has the ability... But he needs more around him than he did in 2022 when he lit the world on fire. Now, you can have the debate about "he's making too much money to need that much help" debate all you want, but the point remains... He needs a very specific set of tools to be truly successful.

And that's the indicator in a player...especially at QB that they have or are in regression...

1 minute ago, deepsixemtoboyd said:

OK, so we’re agreed that his skills are diminished. And, it would appear he needs quite a bit of help just to be more than meh, let alone “lethal”.

I think that his own diminishment is by far the biggest factor in his struggles and that the o-line was definitely good enough yesterday for a good quarterback to be successful. And he was…on one drive.
After that, not so much.

The bombers need a plan, immediate and mid to longer term, that takes their starter’s diminished skills into account. Maybe they have one. But if the best predictor of future behaviour is past behavior, the bombers’ plan is likely to ride this veteran way too long (exhibit a: see one Adam Bighill).

Exactly what I touched on...the fact to we resigned him site unseen for 2026 as well was a bone head move

His scripted first drive was good...after...hit and miss and the hits were not elite qb style hitting

And we are saddled with Osh who will stick with a vet/fav/bias as long as they not in a wheel chair...and that's not good either

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

Was sacked at least once and rushed a few times. I think JBRs point (and forgive me if I'm wrong here) is that maybe Zach needs better than "adequate time" in the pocket to be lethal. I still believe he has the ability... But he needs more around him than he did in 2022 when he lit the world on fire. Now, you can have the debate about "he's making too much money to need that much help" debate all you want, but the point remains... He needs a very specific set of tools to be truly successful.

You need adequate time to hit the routes that are called.  So if they are trying to take vertical shots and want that to be a large part of the offense, they need to be able to protect so their QB can make the read (some of that pre-snap for sure) and have time/space to make that throw.  That was not there on the majority of drops last night.  You think the fastest guy in the league running at full sprint is taking 4 and a half seconds to get 40 yards downfield so you need 3+ seconds really if you're taking vertical shots and expecting to hit them.

Something probably a lot of people don't consider is the space in the pocket....like it's as impactful to the QB (and to some extent the RB) if one of the OL is getting driven into him as if a defender is loose.  Forces QB to bring eyes down and navigate pocket more than read downfield or be able to set feet to throw.  Huge effect on ability to go vertical with a pass.  Pocket for a straight drop is basically the mouth on a sad face emoji.  Any deviation from that can be a problem for the QB's ability to get that ball out on time, accurately.

Does Collaros force the vertical stuff?  Absofuckinglutely.  It's been his style forever.  He's your guy, you've gotta be building the offense around that.  I'm not a fan of that "switch" (that's what we call it, basically inside slot crosses safety face on vertical through the middle) GO route to Demski.  He's gotta be wide open to catch that even if that's a perfect ball.  Hate that we're calling plays that rely on a defensive breakdown.  I don't know if Schoen is struggling physically, but we sure aren't seeing him go vertical a ton.  And other than Wheatfall/Schoen we're not brimming with catch radius guys which is always who Collaros has success with.

IMO...OL yesterday was about a 4/10.  Not a total disaster like games against Toronto last year, but if that's the level they played 18 games at you'd be a sub-.500 team.  D basically score 10 points last night, O had 3 scoring drives.  Nowhere near good enough.  Way too much pressure, not moving anyone at the line, not creating those creases for the backs in zone to make their cut and hit a seam with speed.  Overall if you want to boil it down, they got bodied on more plays than not.  BC had almost all their guys and they came out with a bit more fire on the DL, and once they got going things snowballed physically for our OL. 

Week 1 they were about a 8/10.  Amazing opening vertical gaps for the RB's, and basically no pressures allowed at all on dropbacks, physically dominant.  Only time you saw anyone on BC's DL was on rollouts.  First half some struggles but mostly on QB/receivers getting in rhythm.  Run game was dominant from start to finish and that's all physicality from OL because the back is all slash...hit the mark in zone, make the cut, hit the crease.  Crease isn't there, Peterson isn't making something from nothing like Oliveira might to grab 5-6 yards.

Edited 23 hours ago by JuranBoldenRules

[Noeller]

20 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

You need adequate time to hit the routes that are called.  So if they are trying to take vertical shots and want that to be a large part of the offense, they need to be able to protect so their QB can make the read (some of that pre-snap for sure) and have time/space to make that throw.  That was not there on the majority of drops last night.  You think the fastest guy in the league running at full sprint is taking 4 and a half seconds to get 40 yards downfield so you need 3+ seconds really if you're taking vertical shots and expecting to hit them.

Something probably a lot of people don't consider is the space in the pocket....like it's as impactful to the QB (and to some extent the RB) if one of the OL is getting driven into him as if a defender is loose.  Forces QB to bring eyes down and navigate pocket more than read downfield or be able to set feet to throw.  Huge effect on ability to go vertical with a pass.  Pocket for a straight drop is basically the mouth on a sad face emoji.  Any deviation from that can be a problem for the QB's ability to get that ball out on time, accurately.

Does Collaros force the vertical stuff?  Absofuckinglutely.  It's been his style forever.  He's your guy, you've gotta be building the offense around that.  I'm not a fan of that "switch" (that's what we call it, basically inside slot crosses safety face on vertical through the middle) GO route to Demski.  He's gotta be wide open to catch that even if that's a perfect ball.  Hate that we're calling plays that rely on a defensive breakdown.  I don't know if Schoen is struggling physically, but we sure aren't seeing him go vertical a ton.  And other than Wheatfall/Schoen we're not brimming with catch radius guys which is always who Collaros has success with.

IMO...OL yesterday was about a 4/10.  Not a total disaster like games against Toronto last year, but if that's the level they played 18 games at you'd be a sub-.500 team.  D basically score 10 points last night, O had 3 scoring drives.  Nowhere near good enough.  Way too much pressure, not moving anyone at the line, not creating those creases for the backs in zone to make their cut and hit a seam with speed.  Overall if you want to boil it down, they got bodied on more plays than not.  BC had almost all their guys and they came out with a bit more fire on the DL, and once they got going things snowballed physically for our OL. 

Week 1 they were about a 8/10.  Amazing opening vertical gaps for the RB's, and basically no pressures allowed at all on dropbacks, physically dominant.  Only time you saw anyone on BC's DL was on rollouts.  First half some struggles but mostly on QB/receivers getting in rhythm.  Run game was dominant from start to finish and that's all physicality from OL because the back is all slash...hit the mark in zone, make the cut, hit the crease.  Crease isn't there, Peterson isn't making something from nothing like Oliveira might to grab 5-6 yards.

And this is what I come to MBB for...