GDT Bombers east vs Stumps

[Brandon]

47 minutes ago, johnzo said:

I think the MBB answer to this question is that Strevy didn't have significantly better coaching -- particularly last year when Buck mistook him for a snowplow and got him hurt early in the season.

We'll see if that take is for real on Thursday night. 

Chris Jones and his madness is significantly less then almost anything else in the league

[Fatty Liver]

34 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

I mean...just watch the games? I don't know. Strevs game against OTT last year....there is generally this thing called "game plans". Against ott it was pretty clearly...run and run and run and pass no further than 20yards. Then run some more. If that doesn't work...we're gonna run. 

Ford has never been given that game plan in any game. His coaches have never put him in a position where he was EXPECTED to run over a LB. I'm not even debating this...it's clear as day (not this year though cause of all the smoke...like a clear day in 2003).

Saying that...this is very much a make it or break it season for Strev. He needs to prove people wrong, starting Thursday. And Ford if given the opportunity will develop into a solid CFL qb imo.

Ford was drafted in 2022, 4 games into his rookie season Chris Jones moved him ahead of Nik Arbuckle as the Elks starting QB, he's been up and down ever since, but 3 years later he still plays like a rookie.

 

 

 

[johnzo]

1 hour ago, Bigblue204 said:

Saying that...this is very much a make it or break it season for Strev. He needs to prove people wrong, starting Thursday. And Ford if given the opportunity will develop into a solid CFL qb imo.

also, I think Streveler gets a lot of shine from the fanbase because he's got a backup QB halo on him, and we will definitely see how that halo fits on Thursday.

Back in 2018-2019 he was making plays from the pocket just like a "real qb"  .... but that was a long time ago.

me personally I'm rooting for Ford to take that next step because the CFL always needs more young QBs.  We got a few real promising ones right now with Rourke, Alexander, and Brown ... would be happy to see Ford on that list too.

Edited Monday at 09:11 PM by johnzo

[rebusrankin]

Its the NFL but a guy like Lamar Jackson came in with questions and he's show he can throw the ball and do traditional QB stuff. Its year 4 and Ford still has not. How much rope does he get?

[Booch]

1 hour ago, johnzo said:

I think the MBB answer to this question is that Strevy didn't have significantly better coaching -- particularly last year when Buck mistook him for a snowplow and got him hurt early in the season.

We'll see if that take is for real on Thursday night. 

 

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

The Tre Ford bandwagon of saying he's not  CFL QB material needs to stop right now.   People are way over reacting on how good/bad he is.     If he's not a CFL QB and garbage then what does that make Strevy?  Why are people on here not equally outraged that we kept Strev despite him having crappier stats while playing on a significantly better team with way better coaching?    

 

 

Tre is still a work in progress and has had rough moments,  but to suggest that he will never be anything all while being confident that Strev is the man is hypocritical.    

Money/contracts being ignored the Blue Bombers would be in a way better position if they had a much more athletic and younger QB then what they currently have as a back up.  

he had great stats in 2018 considering he was a raw rookie and had 2 yrs of legit QB play before that at a level higher than Highschool.....plus he had real good rushing numbers too....and using last yrs stats as any metric is just pointless....He was playing basically full-back out of the gun...and raely got any first team reps with the #1's all yr in practice...what would you expect.....Ford also didnt spend 4 yrs in the NFL in any capacity...basically cause...well he's not a legit QB...thats why

[JuranBoldenRules]

2 hours ago, Brandon said:

The Tre Ford bandwagon of saying he's not  CFL QB material needs to stop right now.   People are way over reacting on how good/bad he is.     If he's not a CFL QB and garbage then what does that make Strevy?  Why are people on here not equally outraged that we kept Strev despite him having crappier stats while playing on a significantly better team with way better coaching?    

 

 

Tre is still a work in progress and has had rough moments,  but to suggest that he will never be anything all while being confident that Strev is the man is hypocritical.    

Money/contracts being ignored the Blue Bombers would be in a way better position if they had a much more athletic and younger QB then what they currently have as a back up.  

Streveler isn't a starting quality QB either.

I don't think that's who Ford would want to be compared to.

Ford is a useful player, but he needs a really specific game plan built around RPO looks and him passing from the pocket as little as possible.  Can he survive that to be a starter for 8-10 years?  Probably not....especially if he doesn't develop any consistent pocket passing skills.  More likely he's kind of a role player nearly exactly how Streveler was for us in the 2019 playoff run with Collaros.

[17to85]

2 hours ago, Brandon said:

The Tre Ford bandwagon of saying he's not  CFL QB material needs to stop right now.   People are way over reacting on how good/bad he is.     If he's not a CFL QB and garbage then what does that make Strevy?  Why are people on here not equally outraged that we kept Strev despite him having crappier stats while playing on a significantly better team with way better coaching?    

 

 

Tre is still a work in progress and has had rough moments,  but to suggest that he will never be anything all while being confident that Strev is the man is hypocritical.    

Money/contracts being ignored the Blue Bombers would be in a way better position if they had a much more athletic and younger QB then what they currently have as a back up.  

Stats without context are just the best...

[SpeedFlex27]

16 hours ago, bigg jay said:

Contact with the head first IMO but it's almost simultaneous.  Williams right shoulder is chin level at the moment of contact but comes down to chest level as he is exploding through.  The receiver did duck into it a bit so I'm not sure what else Williams could have done.

Close enough that I think it was the right call & it was targeting.  Refs have to call that on the field. They don't have the benefit of replays slowing it down.

[Brandon]

10 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Stats without context are just the best...

One guy was playing on the worst team of the league complete with an insane coach and still put up better numbers then a guy who was playing on the best team in the league.     What context would you need?  Unless you can't figure out the Edmonton Eskimo stats belong to Tre Ford compared to the Blue Bomber Stats being Strev.   

3 seasons of stats is more then enough to paint a picture.    So if you are going to spin some sort of narrative that Ford cannot be a CFL QB,  then at least admit that Strev is even a worse QB for the CFL then him.      

[SpeedFlex27]

2 hours ago, Brandon said:

One guy was playing on the worst team of the league complete with an insane coach and still put up better numbers then a guy who was playing on the best team in the league.     What context would you need?  Unless you can't figure out the Edmonton Eskimo stats belong to Tre Ford compared to the Blue Bomber Stats being Strev.   

3 seasons of stats is more then enough to paint a picture.    So if you are going to spin some sort of narrative that Ford cannot be a CFL QB,  then at least admit that Strev is even a worse QB for the CFL then him.      

Chis Streveler hasn't started 19 cfl games like Tre Ford. Just a handful. In that time, Ford has shown that he can't read a defense if his life depends upon it. If his first read is covered then he's lost & runs around like a chicken with his head cut off praying one of his receivers will play the scramble drill & get open. Of course one always does & it saves his bacon but that kind of play is unsustainable. That happened on one play on Saturday. Then the next play he throws a high pass & nearly gets his receiver killed. Another had his head taken off. Other passes were overthrown or in the dirt like he has no clue how to throw the ball.

Ford looks the same as he did the last two seasons. Like Little Boy Lost out there. There's been zero improvement in his play. By now, he should be making strides & showing improvement but he isn't. That should be concerning to the Elks as well as their fans.

He really should be playing 100% RPO as that's the only way he has a chance to be even a little bit successful. Yet, they expect him to throw from the pocket & it's a disaster. I don't know if Ford plays video games in meetings or is too lazy to study but he appears to have learned nothing in all the meetings & tutelage he has had since he was drafted by Edmonton. I'm glad he's in Edmonton & not here. He can stay there.

Streveler was never allowed to be a regular CFL qb under Buck Pierce who made him a role playing qb nearly killing him by being a run first qb. The game vs Ottawa last season at home showed what kind of coordinator Buck was the way he played Streveler & I'm glad he's gone. 

Edited 15 hours ago by SpeedFlex27

[SpeedFlex27]

14 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

Its the NFL but a guy like Lamar Jackson came in with questions and he's show he can throw the ball and do traditional QB stuff. Its year 4 and Ford still has not. How much rope does he get?

Some guys have it & others don't. From what I've seen, Ford doesn't. Great athleticism will only take you so far. At some point, he has to show that he belongs in the CFL as a starter. Or he'll be demoted to short yardage. Then out the door.

Mark Killam is in his first year & I'd say he has a year & a half to show he is an actual CFL Head Coach as well. He doesn't need to be anchored down with a 7 game losing streak his first year just because he wants a starting Canadian qb. I can almost guarantee the clock is ticking on Ford. 

Edited 15 hours ago by SpeedFlex27

[Bubba Zanetti]

Love the guy and its an unpopular take but im firmly on the "Streveler isnt a starting QB in this league" wagon. His mechanics are terrible, he has trouble reading defenses, and he makes too many poor decisions with his throws. Asking him to be a drop back pocket passer is a recipe for disaster. I'd be more than happy to eat crow some day. Dont think its going to happen.

[Booch]

10 minutes ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

Love the guy and its an unpopular take but im firmly on the "Streveler isnt a starting QB in this league" wagon. His mechanics are terrible, he has trouble reading defenses, and he makes too many poor decisions with his throws. Asking him to be a drop back pocket passer is a recipe for disaster. I'd be more than happy to eat crow some day. Dont think its going to happen.

but....how does a qb get better...being allowed to grow and play...how many others looked lost and like crap...Brown his first few yrs....looked pointless out there

Strev mechanics have changed since first here...big time...many here havnt seen it yet as there is no real extended film on him...his release is actually quick and when in a system catered to him ball gets out fast

He also now creates a better platform to throw from pocket, didnt before and did a lot of back foot passing....reps and playtime...as a QB will open a lot of eyes

As for Ford...I dont see him being anything more than what we see now

[Brandon]

3 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Ford looks the same as he did the last two seasons. Like Little Boy Lost out there. There's been zero improvement in his play. By now, he should be making strides & showing improvement but he isn't. That should be concerning to the Elks as well as their fans.

Streveler was never allowed to be a regular CFL qb under Buck Pierce who made him a role playing qb nearly killing him by being a run first qb. The game vs Ottawa last season at home showed what kind of coordinator Buck was the way he played Streveler & I'm glad he's gone. 

TLDR:   We can make excuses for Bomber players but guys from other teams cannot be given the same luxury.      Also we must ignore the stats which show a guy on the worst team outplayed a guy on the best team in the league over a 3 year period.  

[Booch]

3 minutes ago, Brandon said:

TLDR:   We can make excuses for Bomber players but guys from other teams cannot be given the same luxury.      Also we must ignore the stats which show a guy on the worst team outplayed a guy on the best team in the league over a 3 year period.  

I wouldn't go that far...Strev had really 1 season to play as an actual QB...his rookie yr...where he had 5 actual starts...looking at his season numbers of 18 games is hard to project a full season of starts but if you just used his 5 starts and did it they project well for a raw rookie..had 7tds to 2 int's...ran for just under 300 yards and 4 tds...so not too shabby...yr 2 they already started gimicking him but even then he was key to us winning...when he came back that's when Buck went off the rails...

Even tho it was just Preseason he looked like a guy who can get you wins and play even in a vanilla scheme and for a lot of it with guys who got cut...I will reserve judgment until I see him after B.C game and others he gets into.

 

[Bigblue204]

24 minutes ago, Brandon said:

TLDR:   We can make excuses for Bomber players but guys from other teams cannot be given the same luxury.      Also we must ignore the stats which show a guy on the worst team outplayed a guy on the best team in the league over a 3 year period.  

Context does not equal excuses.

I'm not agreeing with others who think Ford is a waste and Strev is great. Time will tell. But your argument is horribly flawed and takes away from the point you're trying to make while making you look like you don't know what you're talking about at all.

You're telling me Roberts is an all time great running back? When did he win MOC and MOP in the same year like Brady? How can an all time great RB not have any GC rings? Brady is much better than Roberts. (WITH CONTEXT THIS MAKES NO ******* SENSE).

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 hour ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

Love the guy and its an unpopular take but im firmly on the "Streveler isnt a starting QB in this league" wagon. His mechanics are terrible, he has trouble reading defenses, and he makes too many poor decisions with his throws. Asking him to be a drop back pocket passer is a recipe for disaster. I'd be more than happy to eat crow some day. Dont think its going to happen.

I'm interested to see what Hogan does.

Streveler has a really quick release and to me he looked a lot more confident in his pre-snap reads in pre-season.  I don't think we'll see him hold the ball very long.  But he's not like Collaros where he's always looking vertical.  Very different skill sets as passers.

[blue85gold]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

TLDR:   We can make excuses for Bomber players but guys from other teams cannot be given the same luxury.      Also we must ignore the stats which show a guy on the worst team outplayed a guy on the best team in the league over a 3 year period.  

Why are you comparing Strev to Ford anyway? Strev is a back up.

No one has handed the keys to the team to Strev paid him starter money. Ford was named the 39th best player in the league! He should be playing way better than Strev.

[3rdand1.5]

Ford now has the #1 spot as his in Edm. it is his team to run......from week one, he IMO looked bad, he did not show any pocket comfort, or great reads and throws, what he did show me is that he is one heck of amazing athlete, he is elusive, he is fast and he run, he can make something out of nothing when he breaks contain. The sample size is too small, but as other have stated he needs to show he can be more than a great athlete. Good teams will contain him and make him throw from the pocket....can he do that.....I am not sure he can

 

Stervelor has never been handed a team as a clear #1...this is the biggest flaw in your argument, you can't compare the franchise guy, the undisputed #1 QB of a team to another team's back-up....Now will Strev ever be a true anointed #1 in the CFL, only time will tell, he has a steep mountain to climb for that to happen. Has he been a perfect QB here, no he hasn't, if he had he would be starting for us or someone else

 

The stats you showed are facts, neither has been very good, so many variables in those as others have pointed out, but the biggest key here is Tre is leading his team, he is the face he is the undisputed #1 as opposed to Strev. who is the number 2 and from all accounts had to show and earn that spot by beating out two veterans and Wilson...so to your point then is Wpg. smarter than Edm. to start the proven guy........

[M.O.A.B.]

The only thing I'm kinda worried about Strevy is he seems to throw at least 1 INT most game. 

[Fatty Liver]

43 minutes ago, M.O.A.B. said:

The only thing I'm kinda worried about Strevy is he seems to throw at least 1 INT most game. 

Depends on the situation, given a full game, clawing from behind, possibly 3 interceptions thrown, 1 in garbage time.

[Booch]

1 hour ago, M.O.A.B. said:

The only thing I'm kinda worried about Strevy is he seems to throw at least 1 INT most game. 

seem to recall the last 2 yrs ZC throwing a boatload of em...and some really bad ugly ones too...at ties forcing things...others not seeing things right..a few in panic mode...stuff a vet QB should at this point in his football life not be doing

Strev has throwm some...but a lot can be chalked up to errors any rookie and or new QB may make....and thats normal....thats called learning....He also is a very smart QB and works hard at it on and off field...also turnovers were not an issue with him in 2 yrs as the QB1 in college...

Not saying he is gonna be the next Flutie but he also has not taken...or been allowed to be groomed and work his way along in the CFL as an actual QB...that can't be disputed, but this is his prove it yr....and I pretty sure allowed to consistantly be a QB now....he will do just fine

[17to85]

You know which qbs throw ints? All of them

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, Booch said:

seem to recall the last 2 yrs ZC throwing a boatload of em...and some really bad ugly ones too...at ties forcing things...others not seeing things right..a few in panic mode...stuff a vet QB should at this point in his football life not be doing

Strev has throwm some...but a lot can be chalked up to errors any rookie and or new QB may make....and thats normal....thats called learning....He also is a very smart QB and works hard at it on and off field...also turnovers were not an issue with him in 2 yrs as the QB1 in college...

Not saying he is gonna be the next Flutie but he also has not taken...or been allowed to be groomed and work his way along in the CFL as an actual QB...that can't be disputed, but this is his prove it yr....and I pretty sure allowed to consistantly be a QB now....he will do just fine

It's weird how ZC's 2nd half and TD/INT ratio dramatically improved in the 2nd half of the season once his receivers began gaining chemistry with him, and his OL settled in and started protecting him. You can throw the best ball in the world but if the receiver zigs when he is supposed to zag your INT numbers are gonna go through the roof. Not saying that it explains away everything but it was a huge factor in ZC's first half. The other big factors were his protection and Buck being too stubborn to change the game plan to accommodate for rookie mistakes and the OL not gelling right away.

Edited 7 hours ago by GCn20

[Fatty Liver]

6 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

It's weird how ZC's 2nd half and TD/INT ratio dramatically improved in the 2nd half of the season once his receivers began gaining chemistry with him, and his OL settled in and started protecting him. You can throw the best ball in the world but if the receiver zigs when he is supposed to zag your INT numbers are gonna go through the roof. Not saying that it explains away everything but it was a huge factor in ZC's first half. The other big factors were his protection and Buck being too stubborn to change the game plan to accommodate for rookie mistakes and the OL not gelling right away.

Goes along with the gunslinger mentality, some QB's are looking for the big play and interceptions don't bother them, BLM, Chad Kelly and Collaros just keep chucking regardless, some QB's like Matt Nichols and Trevor Harris, hate throwing interceptions and avoid taking chances.