The MBB All-Time Blue Bomber Team: Defensive Ends

[wbbfan 2326]

2 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Punter is really a choice of 2, the obvious call for Cameron, or the wildcard Jon Ryan, who was clearly a better punter, but maybe not a greater punter, if that makes sense. Kicker could come down to 3 or 4 options. I will be doing returners in a separate category (but will be lumping kick returner and punt returner into one category), and then "special teams player" which will be focussed on cover specialists and long snappers.

I might use JR as a kick off specialist but yeah. I love ryan but you cant match cameron. 

I think thats fair. Return man could be interesting as well. 

2 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Like I said, Cameron is the GREATER punter, but Ryan was the BETTER punter. But let's not get ahead of ourselves in the voting process.

Cameron was the better punter, bad weather, wind, cold, turf, the old moe's grass junk, didnt matter. Type of coverage in front of him didnt matter either, he just adjusted how he did things. 

Ryan was different, he produced bursts of yardage at a level you dont see from punters. Cameron would be my punter, ryan would be a situational guy. Punting out of our endzone? send in ryan and pin the other team in their end. Any kind of adversity in the weather or surface or temp, send out cameron. Then use ryan on kick offs. 

[17to85 10054]

2 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Like I said, Cameron is the GREATER punter, but Ryan was the BETTER punter. But let's not get ahead of ourselves in the voting process.

there is more to punting than distance and Bob Cameron was way better at all the other stuff than Ryan when he was here. 

[Brandon 3376]

Jon Ryan was so bad that he ended up in the NFL for 12 years....

A kind reminder that Jon Ryan had a 50.6 yard average in his last season with the Blue.... Cameron only hit 46.9 as his highest  in his many years.

If I had to pick one of the two guys to play for an all time great time I'd easily choose Jon Ryan in his prime over Bob Cameron.     

I can see why people would want Cameron for sentimental reasons,  but as a pure punter Jon Ryan was way better.  

[17to85 10054]

Jon Ryan when he was here was mostly just a leg, that he rounded out his game in the NFL has no consequence. Like I said, there is more to punting than distance and Cameron had all that. 

[Mr Dee 8738]

Jon Ryan was an instant favourite, and for good reason.

But Bob ’drywall dust’ Cameron definitely was the best punter the Bombers ever employed. So reliable..so consistent. Wind? What wind? It didn’t bother Cameron. 

He was like another Coach out there - he knew the game so well. And ball placement was probably invented by Cameron.

 

[Mark H. 2014]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

Jon Ryan was so bad that he ended up in the NFL for 12 years....

A kind reminder that Jon Ryan had a 50.6 yard average in his last season with the Blue.... Cameron only hit 46.9 as his highest  in his many years.

If I had to pick one of the two guys to play for an all time great time I'd easily choose Jon Ryan in his prime over Bob Cameron.     

I can see why people would want Cameron for sentimental reasons,  but as a pure punter Jon Ryan was way better.  

Since we're doing kind reminders - Ryan's career average is 44.7

[TrueBlue4ever 867]

Just now, Mark H. said:

Since we're doing kind reminders - Ryan's career average is 44.7

Actually, his CFL career average was 46.9, the same as Cameron's best single season ever. His NFL average was 44.7 (and his net NFL average was 38.7). Cameron's career average was 42.9.

[SpeedFlex27 3752]

Ryan played only a few seasons in Winnipeg. Cameron punted for over 15 years. I have to agree with 17to85 here. Cameron was the best.

[TrueBlue4ever 867]

When Ryan was punting with the Bombers, Cameron was the radio colour commentator. Cameron said he'd never seen a punter kick like Ryan. Cameron also told the story about how when Troy Westwood first came to camp. Bob would often try to rattle new kickers, but quickly figured out that Westwood could so easily out-punt him that he would be out of a job, so instead he made friends with him, hoping that Westwood would feel sorry for him and not take his punting job. And it worked, because Westwood said he only wanted to kick field goals and not do both. Westwood told Cameron that when Ryan came along, Westwood saw the same dominance and used the cameron tactic of senior mentor and friend and convinced Ryan only to go out for punting, so he wouldn't lose his placekicking job to a much stronger leg. So if Cameron admitted Westwood could out kick him, and Westwood admitted that Ryan could out kick him, then even Cameron would admit that Ryan would be taken as a punter over him. But I'll say again, BETTER does not equate to GREATER, and Cal Murphy loved Cameron because he was like an extra coach out there. Ryan seemed to handle the same Winnipeg weather conditions just as well as Cameron did.

[SpeedFlex27 3752]

8 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

When Ryan was punting with the Bombers, Cameron was the radio colour commentator. Cameron said he'd never seen a punter kick like Ryan. Cameron also told the story about how when Troy Westwood first came to camp. Bob would often try to rattle new kickers, but quickly figured out that Westwood could so easily out-punt him that he would be out of a job, so instead he made friends with him, hoping that Westwood would feel sorry for him and not take his punting job. And it worked, because Westwood said he only wanted to kick field goals and not do both. Westwood told Cameron that when Ryan came along, Westwood saw the same dominance and used the cameron tactic of senior mentor and friend and convinced Ryan only to go out for punting, so he wouldn't lose his placekicking job to a much stronger leg. So if Cameron admitted Westwood could out kick him, and Westwood admitted that Ryan could out kick him, then even Cameron would admit that Ryan would be taken as a punter over him. But I'll say again, BETTER does not equate to GREATER, and Cal Murphy loved Cameron because he was like an extra coach out there. Ryan seemed to handle the same Winnipeg weather conditions just as well as Cameron did.

You do realize that Cameron was a huge kidder in general.  Loved to play practical jokes. And that he was on radio trying to build up Ryan... I'd take all that with a grain of salt. You don't think Murphy knew Westwood could punt. If he could pay one player to do2 jobs then he'd have cut Cameron. Instead he knew that Cameron was the better punter & gicing 2 jobs to Westwood might affect his accuracy with the added pressure.

 

[TrueBlue4ever 867]

1 minute ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

You do realize that Cameron was a huge kidder in general.  Loved to play practical jokes. And that he was on radio trying to build up Ryan... I'd take all that with a grain of salt. You don't think Murphy knew Westwood could punt. If he could pay one player to do2 jobs then he'd have cut Cameron. Instead he knew that Cameron was the better punter & gicing 2 jobs to Westwood might affect his accuracy with the added pressure.

 

I do realize. Just relaying a story he told. There was great mutual respect between both kicking tandems.

[Brandon 3376]

46 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Ryan played only a few seasons in Winnipeg. Cameron punted for over 15 years. I have to agree with 17to85 here. Cameron was the best.

So what you are saying is you vote for Cameron based on longevity?

Would you also vote for Westwood over Medlock because he played more seasons with the Blue and Gold?

[SpeedFlex27 3752]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

So what you are saying is you vote for Cameron based on longevity?

Would you also vote for Westwood over Medlock because he played more seasons with the Blue and Gold?

Medlock is still playing so ineligible.

[TrueBlue4ever 867]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Medlock is still playing so ineligible.

I'm prepared to include Medlock if his stats warrant it. I intend to include Andrew Harris with the running backs. Active players are eligible if they are deemed worthy of nomination.

[SpeedFlex27 3752]

4 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

I'm prepared to include Medlock if his stats warrant it. I intend to include Andrew Harris with the running backs. Active players are eligible if they are deemed worthy of nomination.

It's your contest so you can do what you like.

[Jesse 346]

10 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

I'm prepared to include Medlock if his stats warrant it. I intend to include Andrew Harris with the running backs. Active players are eligible if they are deemed worthy of nomination.

I agree with this take.

[johnzo 1738]

On 2019-01-25 at 7:25 PM, Brandon said:

So what you are saying is you vote for Cameron based on longevity?

Cameron was huge in the 1988 Grey Cup. On a day when points were at a premium, when the wind was howling and our O was stalled badly, he repeatedly bailed out the team with field-flipping punts. Very rare that a punter is a difference-maker like that. 

He's like Stan Mikawos. He was as steady as the sun for a long time, he had a moment of title glory, and his work enabled his team to be great. 

[johnzo 1738]

On 2019-01-25 at 9:39 PM, TrueBlue4ever said:

I'm prepared to include Medlock if his stats warrant it. I intend to include Andrew Harris with the running backs. Active players are eligible if they are deemed worthy of nomination.

Comparing modern kickers with pre-2005ish kickers is tricky -- the standards are so much higher now. 

that said, I'd like to see Medlock in the mix because Kennerd was just barely an average kicker even by the lower standards of his day. Westwood wasn't that great either. And both have some serious playoff stink on them. Can't be an all-timer if you're not clutch.

Edited February 7 by johnzo

[Noeller 9286]

Yeah, I would think Medlock is a no-brainer as best kicker of all time. You can have a dogfight between Cameron and Ryan for P, but Kicker has to be Medlock, I think...