Enough of all the other shenanigans, lets get back to talking all the fantastic football yet to come this weekend, and get the pregame thread rolling....

 

If it happens right before the snap then no question in my mind it should be called a delay of game  penalty. That would stop it right then and there. Such a cowardly way to  conduct a football team. 

Just now, Sard said:

Absolutely agree with the first paragraph.  It's one thing to stay down after the play to slow the other team down, it's another thing entirely to wait until the ball is about to be snapped and then drop as if you've been shot by a sniper.  It happens quite a bit in professional soccer and it's disgusting to watch.  Totally unsportsmanlike and a very pathetic way to play a game.

Well, we're going to see how much intestinal fortitude our new commissioner has which will be shown by how aggressively he deals with this crap. Its not that Wally Buono who did this- its a coach who has shown arrogance and contempt for the league and its rules, so he ought to be squashed SAP.

Okay, so the way I understand it, we run a tempo offence to prevent the D from substituting -- like say we convert a 2nd-and-short against a D that's got extra beef up front, then we go tempo so that we can call a pass against that heavy lineup.

But if tempo happens when the D will naturally want to substitute, there's always going to be a defensive player on the field who's going to be coming off anyway, and that player can alertly take a knee to allow a substitution. The only cost is losing that player for three snaps, which ain't nothing, but it ain't a huge thing. 

Seems like the injury rules make the tempo offence pretty useless. Be interesting to see if more coaches counter tempo this way.

Edited September 6, 20178 yr by johnzo

29 minutes ago, johnzo said:

Okay, so the way I understand it, we run a tempo offence to prevent the D from substituting -- like say we convert a 2nd-and-short against a D that's got extra beef up front, then we go tempo so that we can call a pass against that heavy lineup.

But if tempo happens when the D will naturally want to substitute, there's always going to be a defensive player on the field who's going to be coming off anyway, and that player can alertly take a knee to allow a substitution. The only cost is losing that player for three snaps, which ain't nothing, but it ain't a huge thing. 

Seems like the injury rules make the tempo offence pretty useless. Be interesting to see if more coaches counter tempo this way.

Trick is, you need load your roster with d linemen like Jones did. Can everyone afford to do that? I think the Riders had 8.

2 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

All the whining about 3 plays! 3 play stoppages don't make or break a game. No one "faked an injury to win" that game.  The game was won or lost in the first quarter when they owned our sorry asses and went up 24-3.

No one is saying that. No one has said they lost the game because of that. We're just saying it's a **** way to play the game. And at best looks unprofessional.

Good on Chris Jones for finding a way to counter Lapo's tempo within the rules, but boo on Chris Jones for making the game uglier, slower, stupider, and more phony. 

The integrity and quality of the game is more important to me than a single rivalry game loss -- I hated PI replay challenge even when the Bombers benefited from it, and this is the same kind of thing. 

49 minutes ago, Arnold_Palmer said:

If it happens right before the snap then no question in my mind it should be called a delay of game  penalty. That would stop it right then and there. Such a cowardly way to  conduct a football team. 

in theory that would be great. But sometimes players do get hurt, and try to tough it out but end up going down just before the whistle (granted that's not how is usually goes). So now you're relying on a Ref to decide whether someone is hurt or not. Which as we all already know, will likely end in disaster.

3 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

in theory that would be great. But sometimes players do get hurt, and try to tough it out but end up going down just before the whistle (granted that's not how is usually goes). So now you're relying on a Ref to decide whether someone is hurt or not. Which as we all already know, will likely end in disaster.

I don't buy for a second that's what happened on Sunday, though. It looked pretty deliberate and for Jones to suggest his players were fatigued clearly demonstrates it was a tactic to slow down the Bombers' offence. How does a rotational D-lineman get fatigued in 22C weather, anyway?

17 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

I don't buy for a second that's what happened on Sunday, though. It looked pretty deliberate and for Jones to suggest his players were fatigued clearly demonstrates it was a tactic to slow down the Bombers' offence. How does a rotational D-lineman get fatigued in 22C weather, anyway?

At the start of the game at that

19 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

I don't buy for a second that's what happened on Sunday, though. It looked pretty deliberate and for Jones to suggest his players were fatigued clearly demonstrates it was a tactic to slow down the Bombers' offence. How does a rotational D-lineman get fatigued in 22C weather, anyway?

And fatigue "I'm tired" is not an injury. 

47 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

in theory that would be great. But sometimes players do get hurt, and try to tough it out but end up going down just before the whistle (granted that's not how is usually goes). So now you're relying on a Ref to decide whether someone is hurt or not. Which as we all already know, will likely end in disaster.

Yeah.  How many officials would be willing to flag an injury when there's a chance they could be wrong?

it's a simple fix, if it happens once play is whistled in you get a first time gimme...any subsequent time you get either a delay of game/unsportsmanlike penalty and a loss of your timeouts if you have any...that would nip things in the bud.

I've played the game and you know immediately after a play if you are hurt, or something isn't right. It doesn't take the time it takes for teams to set up..chains to get moved or the time to have a ref whistle play in to figure that out...even with a team going no huddle. 

It's funny that these injuries never seem to happen when not in tempo...isn't it?...

Edited September 6, 20178 yr by Booch

Just now, johnzo said:

Yeah.  How many officials would be willing to flag an injury when there's a chance they could be wrong?

Eliminate that issue by making it like a hockey/basketball/soccer scenario.. if the play is about to start (bombers are over the ball, ready to snap for instance) then an injury at that point is not looked at until after the play.   if they fall beforehand, sure blow it dead but if its at the start of a new play.. play on.

4 minutes ago, Booch said:

it's a simple fix, if it happens once play is whistled in you get a first time gimme...any subsequent time you get either a delay of game/unsportsmanlike penalty and a loss of your timeouts if you have any...that would nip things in the bud.

I've played the game and you know immediately after a play if you are hurt, or something isn't right. It doesn't take the time it takes for teams to set up..chains to get moved or the time to have a ref whistle play in to figure that out...even with a team going no huddle. 

It's funny that these injuries never seem to happen when not in tempo...isn't it?...

riders and their fans cry "coincidence!" while the rest of the world respond with "Bulls#%t!"

 

5 minutes ago, johnzo said:

Yeah.  How many officials would be willing to flag an injury when there's a chance they could be wrong?

If it's an obvious attempt to delay the game, I'm not sure why an official would be hesitant to do his job.

play clock gets waved in --> player A on defense who seemed perfectly okay suddenly takes a knee --> official throws flag for delay of game

Pretty simple. If a player gets hurt on the previous play, he'll remain on the ground or take a knee almost immediately after the fact.

Just now, blue_gold_84 said:

If it's an obvious attempt to delay the game, I'm not sure why an official would be hesitant to do his job.

play clock gets waved in --> player A on defense who seemed perfectly okay suddenly takes a knee --> official throws flag for delay of game

Pretty simple. If a player gets hurt on the previous play, he'll remain on the ground or take a knee almost immediately after the fact.

ya like Booch mentioned, when you get hurt.. you know.  its not like you blow out an ACL and then walk for 45 seconds then omg it hurtssobad!!!

when you blow up a ligament, sprain a joint or even have a severe cramp.. its an instant situation.. not this 30-60 seconds after the fact bs.

during a game I have blown out a knee...twice...broke a hand...twice...lost a molar...a stinger and bruised ribs....each time I knew immediately and was down during the play...or at the whistle....not after whistled in

21 minutes ago, Booch said:

it's a simple fix, if it happens once play is whistled in you get a first time gimme...any subsequent time you get either a delay of game/unsportsmanlike penalty and a loss of your timeouts if you have any...that would nip things in the bud.

I've played the game and you know immediately after a play if you are hurt, or something isn't right. It doesn't take the time it takes for teams to set up..chains to get moved or the time to have a ref whistle play in to figure that out...even with a team going no huddle. 

It's funny that these injuries never seem to happen when not in tempo...isn't it?...

fair enough, My only question is cramps (which they are claiming these were) can pop up out of nowhere.  I'm only playing devils advocate here.

I do like the idea of letting the play go if it's been blown in.

7 minutes ago, Booch said:

during a game I have blown out a knee...twice...broke a hand...twice...lost a molar...a stinger and bruised ribs....each time I knew immediately and was down during the play...or at the whistle....not after whistled in

Man... that sucks. I would have stayed out of the game after the knee blew out the first time!

EASIER said than done to stay out hahaha

6 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

fair enough, My only question is cramps (which they are claiming these were) can pop up out of nowhere.  I'm only playing devils advocate here.

I do like the idea of letting the play go if it's been blown in.

cramps tho aren't an injury...it's just lack of hydration and in my opinion poor conditioning

4 hours ago, blue_gold_84 said:

"Yeah, what happened over a decade ago under a totally different regime is certainly relevant right now," said nobody ever. It would seem you're employing useless deflection techniques.

And if you bothered to pay any attention to this forum, you'd see fans here are discussing things beyond RedCardGate. Maybe get your head out of your ass and take a look around next time you decide to post.

Typical short sighted comment. Showing ignorance to the subject matter by lashing out with profanity. I'm surprised this forum allows anyone to say someone else has their head up... well ... you know. 

Funny that this topic runs right to the end of the next page. If we are talking sportsmanship or above board. What about O'Shea's so called trick play having a player that was never a part of the offensive huddle step onto the wide side of the field. Still hidden somewhat by the rest of his team on the sidelines. In order to be wide open for a pass. Is that good sportsmanship? You see you can't have it both ways  

Bomber fans are football intelligent and that's why it bugs me that so many were dupped into focusing on 3 plays that were totally irrelevant to the outcome of the game. 

 

nothing wrong with that sportsmanship on the fake punt/kick.

A well coached team and a prepared one should have a guy counting up players on the kick team and calling what type of coverage or block they are going to run.  Every team I have been on has a designated guy for that, as well as a spotter in the box. BC failed to do that and got burned....well coached and very sportsman like

I bet you that you won't see that happen again this year, because teams will be prepared now. Using or taking advantage of a seldom used, or even not known of rule is great coaching if you ask me.

Taking advantage of a  gray area thing, which technically isn't a rule is just low..dirty and reeks of desperation and a lack of confidence in being able to deal with something

4 hours ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Bingo. It's no different than diving in hockey. It's slimy, classless, and unprofessional. And there is no place for that **** in professional sports.

 

2 hours ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

A lot of Rider fans won't even admit that this was a planned strategy, they think the injuries were legitimate and compare them to Loffler and Heath taking a knee.  It must be a coincidence that the 3 players who went down, Henry, Steele and Mrabure are all Natl. DT's which is the only position the Riders have enough depth to do this at. 

Here's hoping LaPo pursues the no-huddle set relentlessly in the Banjo Bowl so we get to watch Rider players continually flopping over like the spineless weasels they play for.

Hey I understand losing dosent feel good. It sucks in fact. But when a team gets their van cleaned and fans get in an uproar over something that was irrelevant to the outcome of the game. It comes across as nothing more than whining and super sour grapes. 

Best to focus on how the Bombers are going to control the next game. The last thing you want is the Riders taking 2 more points in your own stadium. 

I've been posting with my screen name since 2006. I use to comment with all of you on the TSN sites. Before they shut it down. I just wanted to say that as some on here like to accuse others of making up new fake names. 

2 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

No one is saying that. No one has said they lost the game because of that. We're just saying it's a **** way to play the game. And at best looks unprofessional.

I'll say that if up tempo was ineffective, the Riders wouldn'thave bothered doing this.

The Bombers Up tempo offence works.

specially against Jones Defence which changes players a lot.

 it wasn't the only reason the bombers lost; 

but it was one of the reasons the bombers lost.

Edited September 6, 20178 yr by Mark F