http://www.bluebombers.com/2016/11/30/bombers-add-receiver-kieren-duncan/

7 minutes ago, Noeller said:

The way I look at it is, if a guy is incentive based (as most contracts are) and he earns his full value of the contract by hitting those incentives, then he's worth every penny you're having to dole out.

Agreed. I was referring to situations where you like the player but not at the salary they're getting. The situation that often happens with older players who have great character but their skills are seriously diminished.

23 hours ago, J5V said:

No, not likely half way. Goalie was being kind to Nichols and didn't go far enough. Nichols is a below-average QB with crappy mechanics and a below average arm. A perfect match for our below average OC. The Bombers need to keep searching for a better OC and the next great Bomber QB. There's another Jones/Dunigan/Clements/Brock out there and Walters needs to find him and get him in here. I'm tired of this willingness on behalf of fans and management to settle for mediocre. I prefer to believe that mediocre is a temporary, not permanent, condition.

 

Last time I checked he was 10-3 this year in the regular season.  How, exactly, does this make him a "below-average QB"

10 hours ago, Goalie said:

Well, If we are suggesting other options other than Nichols... a few pop in to my head... Keep in mind that with several of these guys, I'd probably sign Glenn to be a backup/starter for us so here goes

 

James Franklin - obvious choice here really

Rakeem Cato - Yeah i know, but... he's an option i suppose

Jeremiah Masoli- didn't look awful playing for the Ticats actually

 

Durant - I don't see it happening personally 

Why do you think Franklin is obvious? What has he proven? Like Willy, when we signed him he has no starting experience & you want to hand the reigns of the team to him? We've already been through that failed experiment. Cato? One of the worst qbs in the CFL subject to multi meltdowns when things get hard. My gosh, think about it, Goalie. Do you want the worst starting CFL qb the past 2 seasons in Cato to take over for Nichols or an unknown in Franklin who is under contract to the Eskimos? To to get Franklin would mean giving up our first pick in the draft & probably a starter as well? The smart move is to sign Nichols & to use our first pick to hopefully get another starting Canadian & depth with the 6th pick.

Edited December 16, 20169 yr by SpeedFlex27

5 hours ago, WBBFanWest said:

Last time I checked he was 10-3 this year in the regular season.  How, exactly, does this make him a "below-average QB"

Blah blah blah Mike Bishop went 11 - 1 or something gaudy like that bla bla bla.....

15 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Blah blah blah Mike Bishop went 11 - 1 or something gaudy like that bla bla bla.....

Michael Bishop??? Now this discussion is just getting ridiculous. 

2 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Michael Bishop??? Now this discussion is just getting ridiculous. 

The point is that a win loss record doesn't always mean that your winning record is all on the QB.   

Nichols definitely helped us win a lot of games... I'm just not so sure yet that if a guy like Durant were to be on our team if the record would of been much different.  

57 minutes ago, Brandon said:

The point is that a win loss record doesn't always mean that your winning record is all on the QB.   

Nichols definitely helped us win a lot of games... I'm just not so sure yet that if a guy like Durant were to be on our team if the record would of been much different.  

If you're hitching your wagon on signing Durant & letting Nichols go that's a huge risk. First, you're assuming he'll be available. Second, how do you know he comes here if the Als want to sign him as there'll be a bidding war. Now, it's $500,000 instead of $400-$425,000 that Nichols would sign for.  Lastly, at age 35 or 36 with his injuries I hardly see how that's a win for the Bombers signing him.

7 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

If you're hitching your wagon on signing Durant & letting Nichols go that's a huge risk. First, you're assuming he'll be available. Second, how do you know he comes here if the Als want to sign him as there'll be a bidding war. Now, it's $500,000 instead of $400-$425,000 that Nichols would sign for.  Lastly, at age 35 or 36 with his injuries I hardly see how that's a win for the Bombers signing him.

I'm not hitching my wagon on Durant,  I'm just saying if Nichols somehow gets Montreal or Toronto to pay up for him that we could sign Durant and not see a huge drop off.     *IF* Ricky Ray isn't completely destroyed he would be another option that we can use for a year or two.  Maybe they swing a trade for Burris?

Or maybe the Blue makes a big trade for Franklin,  keeps Glenn as vet back up and go that route.   

The team definitely has multiple options that in my opinion wouldn't completely tank this club if they move on from Nichols. 

13 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I'm not hitching my wagon on Durant,  I'm just saying if Nichols somehow gets Montreal or Toronto to pay up for him that we could sign Durant and not see a huge drop off.     *IF* Ricky Ray isn't completely destroyed he would be another option that we can use for a year or two.  Maybe they swing a trade for Burris?

Or maybe the Blue makes a big trade for Franklin,  keeps Glenn as vet back up and go that route.   

The team definitely has multiple options that in my opinion wouldn't completely tank this club if they move on from Nichols. 

Agreed...of all years, this is the best in recent memory to have question marks at QB going into FA. There's legit options out there...

23 hours ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

You make a good point about Glenn, I think he would work very well in LaPo's system as well, still I wouldn't feel confident going with him as the starter for next season.  As you said he's the perfect backup.  Going with Durant would be okay for one or two season if Davis is indeed the "future" and he is given the opportunity to prove that in real game action.

If its not davis (personally i dont think it is) then its time to cut our losses. Bring in another young guy to groom. Going into camp against a guy like MBT with the amount of nfl TC/ps experience combined with being under a strong veteran 1 2 combo is a great way to push and pull the best out of a young qb. 

5 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

If its not davis (personally i dont think it is) then its time to cut our losses. Bring in another young guy to groom. Going into camp against a guy like MBT with the amount of nfl TC/ps experience combined with being under a strong veteran 1 2 combo is a great way to push and pull the best out of a young qb. 

Who is MBT?

Please no Durant. Nichols and Glenn for next season will do just fine. Unless Nichols is shown a guaranteed boat load of money (See Willy's previous contract), there's no way he jumps ship. Oh we need to extend Dressler's contract one more year with an option. 

4 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Please no Durant. Nichols and Glenn for next season will do just fine. Unless Nichols is shown a guaranteed boat load of money (See Willy's previous contract), there's no way he jumps ship. Oh we need to extend Dressler's contract one more year with an option. 

A healthy Durant is a better quarterback than either Nichols or Glenn though... only question is, can Durant stay healthy anymore? 

 

I think all this arguing is a moo point though, I can't see anyone else in the league valuing Nichols more than the Bombers and why would Nichols himself be in a rush to leave a place where he got an opportunity and had success with it? They'll negotiate and come to a deal that both sides hate but ultimately works for them. 

I agree. A healthy Durant is miles better than Nichols or Glenn. Winnipeg should be licking their fingers that they have the chance to sign Durant in a few months at a cheaper rate than Nichols probably.

1 hour ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

Who is MBT?

McLeod John Baltazar Bethel-Thompson. No joke. He was on our practice roster for a while but was released before the end of the season. He's bounced around the NFL.

4 hours ago, Noeller said:

Agreed...of all years, this is the best in recent memory to have question marks at QB going into FA. There's legit options out there...

How soon people forget 2014.  We lost out on Collaros, Burris and Glenn in succession.  Got Willy because he was what was left.   Too many things can happen once it gets to free agency.

54 minutes ago, JohnnyOnTheSpot said:

How soon people forget 2014.  We lost out on Collaros, Burris and Glenn in succession.  Got Willy because he was what was left.   Too many things can happen once it gets to free agency.

The only teams this season looking at a new starting qb are  Montreal ,  Saskatchewan and Toronto. 

The most likely available QB's are:   Durant,  Nichols,  Glenn,  Ray,  Willy and maybe Burris.       The club has the upper hand.....

56 minutes ago, Brandon said:

The only teams this season looking at a new starting qb are  Montreal ,  Saskatchewan and Toronto. 

The most likely available QB's are:   Durant,  Nichols,  Glenn,  Ray,  Willy and maybe Burris.       The club has the upper hand.....

Still disagree.  Glenn and Ray could easily end up backups elsewhere and Burris may retire. That would leave just Durant and Nichols from that list.  A lot can happen... 

3 hours ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

Who is MBT?

 

2 hours ago, MOBomberFan said:

McLeod John Baltazar Bethel-Thompson. No joke. He was on our practice roster for a while but was released before the end of the season. He's bounced around the NFL.

this ^. in the presser for the end of the year walters sounds like its a lock for him to be in camp next year. Advanced age, severely limited reps post high school, with high end all round passer skill set. 

2 hours ago, JohnnyOnTheSpot said:

How soon people forget 2014.  We lost out on Collaros, Burris and Glenn in succession.  Got Willy because he was what was left.   Too many things can happen once it gets to free agency.

The difference is you had more starting spots then QBs. This year you have more guys who are starters then spots open. 

 

5 minutes ago, JohnnyOnTheSpot said:

Still disagree.  Glenn and Ray could easily end up backups elsewhere and Burris may retire. That would leave just Durant and Nichols from that list.  A lot can happen... 

If they end up back ups it wont be rush deals by any means. Young qbs people will sell the farm for and take huge gambles. Old qbs that may be going down to back up isnt some thing people are going to rush to get or sell the farm for. Especially not with guys like ellingson, jackson, williams, and hughes available. 

6 hours ago, JohnnyOnTheSpot said:

Still disagree.  Glenn and Ray could easily end up backups elsewhere and Burris may retire. That would leave just Durant and Nichols from that list.  A lot can happen... 

Burris is too arrogant to retire

9 hours ago, Brandon said:

The only teams this season looking at a new starting qb are  Montreal ,  Saskatchewan and Toronto. 

The most likely available QB's are:   Durant,  Nichols,  Glenn,  Ray,  Willy and maybe Burris.       The club has the upper hand.....

Sorry, for reasons already stated, I don't agree.

19 hours ago, JohnnyOnTheSpot said:

How soon people forget 2014.  We lost out on Collaros, Burris and Glenn in succession.  Got Willy because he was what was left.   Too many things can happen once it gets to free agency.

Yes but now that everyone knows how great Mike O'Shea is, well, I'm surprised BLM isn't knocking on our door wanting to play for free!

On 15/12/2016 at 9:06 PM, WBBFanWest said:

Last time I checked he was 10-3 this year in the regular season.  How, exactly, does this make him a "below-average QB"

He's below average because out of Nichols, Jennings, BLM, Reilly, Durant, Burris, Colaros, Ray, and Cato, Nichols is arguably the worst. Even if you rated Nichols ahead of 3 of the others, and that would be tough, he'd still be below average. If you disagree, who would you rate him better than?

Just now, J5V said:

He's below average because out of Nichols, Jennings, BLM, Reilly, Durant, Burris, Colaros, Ray, and Cato, Nichols is arguably the worst. Even if you rated Nichols ahead of 3 of the others, and that would be tough, he'd still be below average. If you disagree, who would you rate him better than?

I rate him as better than anyone else we've had in quite a while, and that's the only metric that really matters.  Also, I always chuckle at these "who's better than who" arguments for one simple reason:  Our roster does not have Jennings, BLM, Reilly, Durant, Burris, Colaros, Ray, and Cato on it, so who's better than who is irrelevant because it's which team is better than which.  We have Nichols and Nichols won 10 of the 13 games he started.   That's more than acceptable by any standard and it's certain not "below average" for a starting qb or for a team.   We don't need to have the "best" qb to win.  We demonstrated that this year.  One could argue the BLM was the best qb in the CFL in 2016.  Turns out that Calgary won as many Grey Cups this year with him as we did with Nichols.  Put the right people around Nichols on O, and he's more than good enough.  

12 minutes ago, WBBFanWest said:

I rate him as better than anyone else we've had in quite a while, and that's the only metric that really matters.  Also, I always chuckle at these "who's better than who" arguments for one simple reason:  Our roster does not have Jennings, BLM, Reilly, Durant, Burris, Colaros, Ray, and Cato on it, so who's better than who is irrelevant because it's which team is better than which.  We have Nichols and Nichols won 10 of the 13 games he started.   That's more than acceptable by any standard and it's certain not "below average" for a starting qb or for a team.   We don't need to have the "best" qb to win.  We demonstrated that this year.  One could argue the BLM was the best qb in the CFL in 2016.  Turns out that Calgary won as many Grey Cups this year with him as we did with Nichols.  Put the right people around Nichols on O, and he's more than good enough.  

I was going to agree that he might be above average for the QBs that we've had but then I remembered, how would we know? We rarely get to see any others play. 

That reminds me, missing from the list of QBs I mentioned above are the backups and I suspect many of them are also better than Nichols. Guys like Lulay, Masoli, and even our own Kevin Glenn.

As for the argument that you can win without the best QB, sure you can, if your team is exceptionally talented everywhere else. But I'd argue that two of the best QBs in the league played in the Grey Cup. I'd also point out that one of the reasons we never got to the Grey Cup was that Jennings outplayed Nichols by a country mile in the second half of the WSF. When Ottawa won it Burris played great. When Edm won it - Reilly. When Calgary won it - BLM. When Toronto won it - Ray. BC - Lulay. Montreal - Calvillo. etc, etc. In the CFL it may not be necessary to have a top quality QB to win the championship but it sure helps and is the rule rather than the exception.