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11 hours ago, Mark H. said:

Good God, that's eugenics, in 2021. 

Well not exactly... not like it's permanent sterilization. Violating peoples autonomy certainly but there is a difference.

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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/survivors-faith-leaders-call-on-catholic-church-to-take-responsibility-for-residential-schools-1.6048077

The appalling silence of the church in its complicity is actually disgusting. Which is to say nothing of no real apologies or remorse being expressed.

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2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Well not exactly... not like it's permanent sterilization. Violating peoples autonomy certainly but there is a difference.

The intent is still to control an oppressed segment of the population - even if the definition is a micrometre off target. 

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1 hour ago, blue_gold_84 said:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/survivors-faith-leaders-call-on-catholic-church-to-take-responsibility-for-residential-schools-1.6048077

The appalling silence of the church in its complicity is actually disgusting. Which is to say nothing of no real apologies or remorse being expressed.

It's important literally every church has a response of some kind. It wasn't just the Catholic church involved. I'd implore everyone who goes to a church to demand some kind of action, and if there isn't any, I'd urge you to leave it. 

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2 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

It's important literally every church has a response of some kind. It wasn't just the Catholic church involved. I'd implore everyone who goes to a church to demand some kind of action, and if there isn't any, I'd urge you to leave it. 

The Catholic church has participated in several genocides and has never expressed regret or responsibility. I think they just assume that the organization will outlast any criticisms. This has worked very well so far.

This is by no means meant to discount what has apparently happened in BC and other Canadian places, but the Catholic church has always considered people expendable utilities for the wealth of the Church. You may wish to look up the Magdalene Laundries in Ireland, the "butterbox babies" in Quebec and its complicity in the mezzo-American wars, not to mention its shielding of Nazi fugitives in 1945-46. The list is long and appalling.

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3 hours ago, Tracker said:

The Catholic church has participated in several genocides and has never expressed regret or responsibility. I think they just assume that the organization will outlast any criticisms. This has worked very well so far.

This is by no means meant to discount what has apparently happened in BC and other Canadian places, but the Catholic church has always considered people expendable utilities for the wealth of the Church. You may wish to look up the Magdalene Laundries in Ireland, the "butterbox babies" in Quebec and its complicity in the mezzo-American wars, not to mention its shielding of Nazi fugitives in 1945-46. The list is long and appalling.

New France (17th - 18th century): the "no Black Robes - no fur trade" policy with the natives

16th - 18th century Europe: assimilation and/or killing of Anabaptists and others who did not conform to established religions

Canadian Residential Schools (also includes Anglican, Lutheran and others): the longest running genocide in world history.  From fairly early on in New France, to as recent as 1996

And more...

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11 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

And more...

 

"The statue of Edward Cornwallis is gone. But for many Mi’kmaq and Indigenous people across Canada, the question remains: Is the bounty still on the books or not?

In late January, Halifax city council voted to remove the statue. It was taken down immediately afterwards.

Cornwallis, celebrated as the founder of Halifax, issued two scalping proclamations after he arrived in Mi’kma’ki in 1749. “Ten guineas for every Indian taken or destroyed.” He rescinded both bounties by the time he left in 1752.

But four years later, Governor Charles Lawrence issued another cash bounty on the Mi’kmaq in Nova Scotia.

“…a Reward of Thirty Pounds for every male Indian Prisoner above the Age of Sixteen Years brought in alive or a Scalp of such Male Indian Twenty five Pounds and Twenty five Pounds for every Indian Woman or Child brought in alive…”

This proclamation was never rescinded.

https://www.aptnnews.ca/national-news/not-forgotten-mikmaq-bounty-never-rescinded/

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Ive often thought that it would be far more effective to put a plaque in front of the statues describing the true nature of the person or whatever nefarious deeds they commited. If the statue is removed ,yes they are forgotten but so is our societies part in  their crimes. The crime itself is forgotten.  On the other hand I also think the decision should be left to those who were wronged.

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3 minutes ago, the watcher said:

Ive often thought that it would be far more effective to put a plaque in front of the statues describing the true nature of the person or whatever nefarious deeds they commited. If the statue is removed ,yes they are forgotten but so is our societies part in  their crimes. The crime itself is forgotten.  On the other hand I also think the decision should be left to those who were wronged.

The $5, $10, & $50 bills - would have some interesting stories...

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10 hours ago, the watcher said:

Ive often thought that it would be far more effective to put a plaque in front of the statues describing the true nature of the person or whatever nefarious deeds they commited. If the statue is removed ,yes they are forgotten but so is our societies part in  their crimes. The crime itself is forgotten.  On the other hand I also think the decision should be left to those who were wronged.

Have you forgotten Hitler? 

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No history is erased when a useless statue is removed from a park, university campus, public space etc.

The fact that such individuals would be "celebrated" to that degree is pretty messed up, IMO. And that's to say nothing of institutions, roadways, etc. being named after them. 

We can gloss over our nation's bloody past all we want but those skeletons in the closet, so to speak, will inevitably come out over time. We're seeing that unfold right now before our very eyes as we learn of the horrific reality of what residential schools actually were.

Edited by blue_gold_84
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23 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

Have you forgotten Hitler? 

Of course not. Did you actually read and think about what I said ?  Apparently not.

1: I said it should be up to the people that have suffered 

2: I said it shouldn't be forgotten that we as a society took part in this and allowed it

3 : I said I think it served as a better purpose  to  educate people on what happened than   ignore our history

 

Edited by the watcher
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23 hours ago, blue_gold_84 said:

No history is erased when a useless statue is removed from a park, university campus, public space etc.

The fact that such individuals would be "celebrated" to that degree is pretty messed up, IMO. And that's to say nothing of institutions, roadways, etc. being named after them. 

We can gloss over our nation's bloody past all we want but those skeletons in the closet, so to speak, will inevitably come out over time. We're seeing that unfold right now before our very eyes as we learn of the horrific reality of what residential schools actually were.

I will use McDonald as an example. So a statue of him with a plaque in front, written by indigenous  people describing what he did, how it impacted them and how it's legacy still impacts them still would not be celebrating him. It would flip the story. It would serve as a reminder of what happened and possibly educate those who just don't get it . Ripping it down may feel good but serves no purpose on changing peoples minds or teaching them about what happened. Basicly the same idea as what you see in the museum of Human Rights but not within its walls where some never  venture.

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