BigBlue Posted December 13, 2016 Report Share Posted December 13, 2016 The Canadian draft process is critical to building long term club success ... yet the trend is to sign for 2 or 3 years and then test the market ... the draft investment can vanish all too quickly ... I would like to see a restricted free agent clause implemented similar to hockey's ... of course that means a change in the collective bargaining agreement for the players' association ... But what real power does the association have over the league? If the players knew the clubs would go with all American replacement players in the case negotiations could not be concluded by season's start, then their power might weaken mightily. Nobody wants to test those waters but the only way to negotiate anything is to have at least one viable alternative ... having two or three alternatives is even better. I am now reading that some players contracts have an NFL tryout clause. I actually think that is an ok idea that may increase the quality of our overall International talent pool. Give the players a 3 month window every year to tryout and sign with a NFL club ... say they have from January to March to sign a NFL contract, and if they do, but subsequently fail to make "the Bigs", then they by default return to their CFL contract ... of course they can still go the free agency route as now ... BUT both sides might prefer to have the comfort of a good contract for the long term without the anxiety, time and pain staking negotiating process of reaching a new uncertain contract, be it better, worse or similar. A CFL agreement could even be reached with NFL if that helps, but it does not seem to be required. IF NFL tryouts become part of a standard clause in the general CFL contract, players could play their hearts out for their CFL club at all times during our season, test the NFL waters each winter if they wish, and failing real success, have the predictability to easily and seamlessly return to their original CFL club, and play in the latter and most critical part of the CFL season. Sounds kind of win-win, GM's can plan better and get players to sign longer term and with it more lucrative contracts. At the same time the GM knows he is doing their very best for each of their players and in no wise is holding them back. Fear and hidden agendas disappear and good faith and cooperation can blossom. Its professional and "feel good" for all involved... And it brings stability and allows long term planning instead of everything short term and stop-gap-ish. Perhaps in negotiations with the players association, the restricted free agent clause can be traded for a standard NFL tryout clause. I think it would help all concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCon Posted December 14, 2016 Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 I don't know about restricted free agency. The players already give up so much control in the CFL with nonguaranteed contracts and all. I would like to see each team with a restricted list of players that could be released to try out for NFL teams but that their rights would remain with their clubs. Maybe the there would be a cap to how many players a CFL team could hold. Maybe it would only apply to players within five years (could be more or less) of initially joining a CFL team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlue Posted December 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 4 minutes ago, JCon said: I don't know about restricted free agency. The players already give up so much control in the CFL with nonguaranteed contracts and all. Its seems all the concessions in negotiations have gone the players way ... I don't remember seeing much that went the leagues way .... maybe its time for a bit of a shift and to me protecting draftees is one key the clubs need Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCon Posted December 14, 2016 Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 2 minutes ago, BigBlue said: Its seems all the concessions in negotiations have gone the players way ... I don't remember seeing much that went the leagues way .... maybe its time for a bit of a shift and to me protecting draftees is one key the clubs need You believe that? I don't think much has gone the players way. There's a cap and nonguaranteed contracts. Little concessions are cheap compared to these. johnzo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noeller Posted December 14, 2016 Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 Yeah, the non-guaranteed contracts is the biggest thing....it's almost insane that that exists in a pro sport today. JCon, MOBomberFan, Floyd and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted December 14, 2016 Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 1 hour ago, Noeller said: Yeah, the non-guaranteed contracts is the biggest thing....it's almost insane that that exists in a pro sport today. That's what happens when the CFLPA is toothless. They don't want to play ball there's only about a million players down south who could come up and take their jobs and would be happy just to get the chance to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlue Posted December 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 The revolving door of US players is what I would like to see end .... look at most rosters compared to 3 or 4 years ago: very few teams look a lot like they used to be ... TRUE that career ending injuries take their toll ... but the facts of life seem to be that the Intl rookies put a lot of pressure on the other average players - - economics you know Keeping the same players on the same club has fan appeal for me and builds player identity for some few of us ... the opposite is the gong show Jones is attempting to run in Regina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 14, 2016 Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 21 minutes ago, BigBlue said: The revolving door of US players is what I would like to see end .... look at most rosters compared to 3 or 4 years ago: very few teams look a lot like they used to be ... TRUE that career ending injuries take their toll ... but the facts of life seem to be that the Intl rookies put a lot of pressure on the other average players - - economics you know Keeping the same players on the same club has fan appeal for me and builds player identity for some few of us ... the opposite is the gong show Jones is attempting to run in Regina This seems to be a trend in pro football in general, including the NFL. http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-shrinking-shelf-life-of-nfl-players-1456694959 wbbfan and Mr Dee 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR. CFL Posted December 14, 2016 Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 Not sure where the notion of an NFL tryout clause came from? A player can verbally agree to return to his previous team but he must be waived and released from his current CFL contract prior to signing in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBURGESS Posted December 14, 2016 Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 45 minutes ago, DR. CFL said: Not sure where the notion of an NFL tryout clause came from? A player can verbally agree to return to his previous team but he must be waived and released from his current CFL contract prior to signing in the NFL. Not true. It's been widely reported that BC has a clause in some players contracts that they are allowed to try out for NFL teams from early Dec to mid-Jan. If they don't get a contract, then they remain BC property. If BC does it and it passed through the league offices, then you can bet other teams do too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noeller Posted December 14, 2016 Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 18 minutes ago, TBURGESS said: Not true. It's been widely reported that BC has a clause in some players contracts that they are allowed to try out for NFL teams from early Dec to mid-Jan. If they don't get a contract, then they remain BC property. If BC does it and it passed through the league offices, then you can bet other teams do too. More or less what we're doing with Heath... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbbfan Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 2 hours ago, Rich said: This seems to be a trend in pro football in general, including the NFL. http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-shrinking-shelf-life-of-nfl-players-1456694959 This pretty much sums up the point better then any words could. Some times, producing a guy and watching him leave quickly with nothing to show hurts. Its not just NIs though. Guys like bruce and brian clark hurt a bunch. Id like to see MLB level compensation. Its not fair to force rookies, ni or other wise to play longer for teams that draft them. Id Like to see sliding scale cost for teams that sign league FAs. Maybe from cash to neg listers to depth picks. More of a tax to compensate the teams a little bit rather then to punish players for leaving. They are people after all. Forcing them to work for X company via draft, rights claim etc has allways sat poorly with me. The franchise rule in the nfl is appalling even more so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbbfan Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 1 hour ago, Noeller said: More or less what we're doing with Heath... Pretty much what has been happening with virtually every team for the past 10 years or so too. Just in contract form. I dont know any thing about the cases with contracts and who has what or if they can even have such an exit clause. But its been happening under the table so if its on paper or not doesnt really have much of an impact imop. And I think its good. If guys go down south and shine it helps the league out a great deal. Tons and tons and tons of players have said they were in an NFL camp with some one who played up here talked highly of it and it opened up their considerations to up here. Stuff like this and the games on ESPN help the talent level of the league a great deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlue Posted December 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 On 12/14/2016 at 6:20 PM, wbbfan said: This pretty much sums up the point better then any words could. Some times, producing a guy and watching him leave quickly with nothing to show hurts. Its not just NIs though. Guys like bruce and brian clark hurt a bunch. Id like to see MLB level compensation. Its not fair to force rookies, ni or other wise to play longer for teams that draft them. Id Like to see sliding scale cost for teams that sign league FAs. Maybe from cash to neg listers to depth picks. More of a tax to compensate the teams a little bit rather then to punish players for leaving. They are people after all. Forcing them to work for X company via draft, rights claim etc has allways sat poorly with me. The franchise rule in the nfl is appalling even more so. Yes it would help to have some form of compensation such as an equal or better draft pick than the leaving player's own draft level. What might help even better is a draft pick based on the salary level of the leaving player, for example: 125+ k$ .... 1st round pick next draft 100-124k $ ... 2nd round 90-100 k ... 3rd round < 90 k ... 4th round wbbfan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlue Posted December 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 On 12/14/2016 at 4:04 PM, Rich said: This seems to be a trend in pro football in general, including the NFL. http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-shrinking-shelf-life-of-nfl-players-1456694959 the three year number is skewed by the giant number of players that only play one or perhaps two years ... that would put the core veterans at four five or six years. Taking a "median" number would not show that any better than an "average" number. A better picture would be to see what the average career length of a player who has made it past year two. The numbers above simply reflect a high turnover rate of lower paid players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbbfan Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 17 hours ago, BigBlue said: Yes it would help to have some form of compensation such as an equal or better draft pick than the leaving player's own draft level. What might help even better is a draft pick based on the salary level of the leaving player, for example: 125+ k$ .... 1st round pick next draft 100-124k $ ... 2nd round 90-100 k ... 3rd round < 90 k ... 4th round That would be a good factor to include. Im not sure the compensation should be that high though. I dont think it should be prohibitive in signing FAs just value back. Though if its an extreme player signing like a BLM perhaps it should be as high as a first. But say your a team like us the couple years before this year. Even this last off season. Andrew harris, should his signing have cost us a first round pick? We have to allow down teams to be able to rebuild NI depth through the FA market with out hurting their NI depth further. Thats why i figure cash, neg listers, and mid tier picks. Like 3rd round down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlue Posted December 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 58 minutes ago, wbbfan said: Though if its an extreme player signing like a BLM perhaps it should be as high as a first I am only referring to compensation for a draft pick National of 3 or 4 years or less playing in the league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbbfan Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 2 hours ago, BigBlue said: I am only referring to compensation for a draft pick National of 3 or 4 years or less playing in the league Im not. My comment was about imps as well. Ones that come from the ncaa particularly. That level of compensation is still too high for a guy who has probably been through 2-3 contract terms. Not to mention it doesnt take into consideration over pays, guys who get injured and try to re find a former high level of play etc. You could end up with guys stuck with compensation too high for what they can bring. Plus you dont want to limit the ability for NI talent to flow between teams too much. Thats how you rebuild. Other wise you end up with one team that has far too much talent who can over pay them and protect them and their dominance at NI depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark H. Posted December 18, 2016 Report Share Posted December 18, 2016 On December 16, 2016 at 4:36 PM, wbbfan said: Plus you dont want to limit the ability for NI talent to flow between teams too much. Thats how you rebuild. Other wise you end up with one team that has far too much talent who can over pay them and protect them and their dominance at NI depth. Yes, but the salary cap would contain that to a certain extent. JCon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbbfan Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 On 12/18/2016 at 10:20 AM, Mark H. said: Yes, but the salary cap would contain that to a certain extent. Yes and no. NIs dont seem to get paid crazy money very often. Save some one like what henoc got from MTL. It would protect top end NIs, but not the low to mid guys. I dont think the PA would ever sign off on a deal that means no1 picks trade hands frequently for signing a FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR. CFL Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 The high end Nationals that are legitimate starters / players get paid. The low end special teasers don't get paid. Where teams run into trouble is they believe a ST guy can transition into a starter, they pay him accordingly and he doesn't pan out.....case in point Hurl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR. CFL Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 The high end Nationals that are legitimate starters / players get paid. The low end special teasers don't get paid. Where teams run into trouble is they believe a ST guy can transition into a starter, they pay him accordingly and he doesn't pan out.....case in point Hurl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCn20 Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 On 2016-12-14 at 5:02 PM, TBURGESS said: Not true. It's been widely reported that BC has a clause in some players contracts that they are allowed to try out for NFL teams from early Dec to mid-Jan. If they don't get a contract, then they remain BC property. If BC does it and it passed through the league offices, then you can bet other teams do too. Not entirely true. They are given the NFL workout window, however, they still must be released by their respective teams in order to sign a contract. If the Lions wanted they could tell Bighill he has a workout window but we have changed our mind and will not release you if you are offered a contract. However, I doubt any team would bargain in such poor faith so as to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBURGESS Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 6 minutes ago, gcn11 said: Not entirely true. They are given the NFL workout window, however, they still must be released by their respective teams in order to sign a contract. If the Lions wanted they could tell Bighill he has a workout window but we have changed our mind and will not release you if you are offered a contract. However, I doubt any team would bargain in such poor faith so as to do that. Assuming what you are saying is true... I'd guess that the CFL contract would't be released until/unless an NFL contract offer was made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 Didn't Joe Mack pull a stunt like that - was it Vega that he wouldn't release or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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