...Lawless says Riders looking at Ottawa Asst GM and John Murphy as potential new GM. Have asked for permission to speak to both. Fwiw.

He isn't holding out. He doesn't have a contract. 

To me, a holdout is someone under contract but holding out to renegotiate. 

In this situation it still is a holdout considering that the Riders have his rights

One thing I found interesting is that Murphy admitted they offered a deal that would have made him the second highest paid draft pick ever but yet they are trying to spin it like they are trying to save the league by lowering the bar.  

I tend to see it as the Riders are the ones "holding out" by low balling him. They should be paying him a first-overall salary. Sounds like they set the tone

Here's what the CFLPA think of Chris Jones' management style (particularly since arriving in Regina) ...

Here's what Riderfans will think about him in about a year from now ...

 

Edited June 3, 20169 yr by IC Khari

2 hours ago, Adrenaline_x said:

Heh... just saw this regarding JSJ

http://www.rodpedersen.com/2016/06/murphy-we-dont-negotiate-with-holdouts.html

 

"If I give a dollar more than what the #1 pick got last year, I'm not only affecting this year's cap, I'm then saying next year that rookie pick will go up $5000, $7000 or $10,000 which means we are contributing to a situation that is not realistic.  In the next two years we'll be dealing with the CBA whether you're a player, agent, team, GM or coach at every level, you're creating a false sense of security for these players to think you can enter the CFL at a near $90,000-$100,000 range and that wouldn't work in the economics of today's CFL. ...  "We went back and forth and his agent then sent back an offer that was, again, exceedingly high for any rookie player but I can tell you firsthand that both of the offers we've made of the long-term variety - which is what his agent wants - would make him the highest-paid player in this Draft and the second-highest paid player in the history of draft picks. So if we are offering a deficient deal, I don't really see where that's the case."

So what does SJS actually & REALLY want?

What other o-linemen from this year's draft signed for (just base):

http://3downnation.com/2016/06/03/top-2016-cfl-draft-picks-got-paid-relates-josiah-st-john/

1 hour ago, holoman said:

In this situation it still is a holdout considering that the Riders have his rights

Maybe we should call it a lockout. Riders have his rights but won't let him play.

CFL is probably going to end up implementing standard / maximum rookie contracts for draft picks like the NHL has.  Usually not that hard of a bargaining chip to get added in with existing PA members who've already signed their first contract and don't want to see any larger % of cap dollars going to rookies.

As more info on this comes out, I can certainly see Saskatchewan's side on this of not wanting to escalate over what was paid in prior years.  Don't think their "counter" offer of league minimum was constructive or productive in the bargaining process.  Seems a little immature and was likely the catalyst that further soured negotiations.

Well this is something I didn't expect to see from one of their own (" Darrell Davis has reported on the Riders for more than 20 years and was inducted into the Canadian Football Hall of Fame media wing in 2006")

http://3downnation.com/2016/06/03/riders-botched-st-john-negotiations/

Looks like the honeymoon is coming to an end.

This seems confusing now...  if every other OL signed for $75-$80k how did the Riders not ink a deal before the draft?  St John looks good but this wasn't a case of Ben Heenan vs. everyone else... there were other options to draft first overall.

Super lame.  Super entertaining.

 

6 hours ago, Ripper said:

Fans cheer for whomever is playing at the current time. Might seem foreign to you but that's how it works. Fans actually would like to see the team do well and win. Same goes for coaches and management. I never defended Taman when I thought he was wrong, and I won't defend Jones either, but I will support them because I want to see us win. I'm sure the Bomber fans are hoping MOS turns the corner and the team does well. There are always fans that get excited before they should, happens everywhere. Don't spend too much of your time worrying about us hillbillies. You should likely focus on what your team needs to do to actually Win the grey cup. You eastern teams only get to hide so long, and then sooner or later you need to beat a western team to win the cup. You claim to hate the riders and their fans, but the fate of your team is in the hands of two ex riders. I guess the Cats figured maybe they couldn't do it on their own and needed some hillbilly help.

And every day we thank our lucky star some ego maniac in Regina gave us a chance to get them.  But to include only them is not quite right. At some point during the season Mr. Jones will wake up in a sweat after having nightmares of two little guys scoring touchdowns all night long using his head as a football. And the Royal Blue people in the stands will stand in amazement as they watch these two carrying such a big football.

20 minutes ago, LeBird said:

And every day we thank our lucky star some ego maniac in Regina gave us a chance to get them.  But to include only them is not quite right. At some point during the season Mr. Jones will wake up in a sweat after having nightmares of two little guys scoring touchdowns all night long using his head as a football. And the Royal Blue people in the stands will stand in amazement as they watch these two carrying such a big football.

^^^^^^^^^^ 1000 times THIS ...

3 hours ago, BigBlue said:

"If I give a dollar more than what the #1 pick got last year, I'm not only affecting this year's cap, I'm then saying next year that rookie pick will go up $5000, $7000 or $10,000 which means we are contributing to a situation that is not realistic.  In the next two years we'll be dealing with the CBA whether you're a player, agent, team, GM or coach at every level, you're creating a false sense of security for these players to think you can enter the CFL at a near $90,000-$100,000 range and that wouldn't work in the economics of today's CFL. ...  "We went back and forth and his agent then sent back an offer that was, again, exceedingly high for any rookie player but I can tell you firsthand that both of the offers we've made of the long-term variety - which is what his agent wants - would make him the highest-paid player in this Draft and the second-highest paid player in the history of draft picks. So if we are offering a deficient deal, I don't really see where that's the case."

So what does SJS actually & REALLY want?

That doesn't make sense even when ignoring the hyperbole. If they offered him that type of money then it would go against everything they've said about market correction, etc. and would be well above what last year's picks got.

I'd trade our first next year for St John. 

39 minutes ago, Goalie said:

I'd trade our first next year for St John. 

Would the Riders do it for 9th overall though?

2 minutes ago, IC Khari said:

Would the Riders do it for 9th overall though?

You mean first overall don't you?

1 minute ago, Ripper said:

You mean first overall don't you?

We can't trade your 1st overall pick to you 

15 minutes ago, Goalie said:

We can't trade your 1st overall pick to you 

good comeback.

1 hour ago, Jacquie said:

That doesn't make sense even when ignoring the hyperbole. If they offered him that type of money then it would go against everything they've said about market correction, etc. and would be well above what last year's picks got.

Sorry to say, it doesn't make sense because fans of other teams want to believe the worst. Human nature. Bottom line is we wanted him in the lineup, but I guess he thinks he is Eric Lindros or something

1 hour ago, Jacquie said:

That doesn't make sense even when ignoring the hyperbole. If they offered him that type of money then it would go against everything they've said about market correction, etc. and would be well above what last year's picks got.

To me, there are two ways this makes sense.

1. The riders are not offering much in the way of incentives or a signing bonus.

2. The contract is back loaded.

It appears the two sides are reasonably close when it comes to base salary. But for JSJ to ask to be traded, they must be miles apart in first year dollars. At least four top picks last year were in the $100,000 range with bonus and/or incentives.

I think this what Murphy means by a market correction. He does not want to pay a rookie at "near $90,000 to $100,000. So I believe the Riders are offering, all in, around $80,000. JSJ wants that extra $20,000.

 

18 minutes ago, ladybug said:

To me, there are two ways this makes sense.

1. The riders are not offering much in the way of incentives or a signing bonus.

2. The contract is back loaded.

It appears the two sides are reasonably close when it comes to base salary. But for JSJ to ask to be traded, they must be miles apart in first year dollars. At least four top picks last year were in the $100,000 range with bonus and/or incentives.

I think this what Murphy means by a market correction. He does not want to pay a rookie at "near $90,000 to $100,000. So I believe the Riders are offering, all in, around $80,000. JSJ wants that extra $20,000.

 

Riders offer is 82k/yr for 3 years. 20k signing bonus in year one

4 minutes ago, Ripper said:

Riders offer is 82k/yr for 3 years. 20k signing bonus in year one

The only way that makes sense, and jive with what Murphy is saying, is if the 20k is include in the 82k/yr. In other words a 62k base and 20k signing bonus.

41 minutes ago, ladybug said:

The only way that makes sense, and jive with what Murphy is saying, is if the 20k is include in the 82k/yr. In other words a 62k base and 20k signing bonus.

And it that's the case then it's no where close to making SJS the second highest paid draft pick ever.

5 hours ago, LeBird said:

And every day we thank our lucky star some ego maniac in Regina gave us a chance to get them.  But to include only them is not quite right. At some point during the season Mr. Jones will wake up in a sweat after having nightmares of two little guys scoring touchdowns all night long using his head as a football. And the Royal Blue people in the stands will stand in amazement as they watch these two carrying such a big football.

Ripper was talking to Zontar, referring to the Ti-cats and Austin/Tillman running that team.