Interesting article from today's free press:

The image on the big screen in Kyle Walters' office is paused momentarily, frozen on one of the receiving prospects the Winnipeg Blue Bombers general manager is evaluating for this spring's Canadian Draft.

And the brown uniforms and gold helmets eliminate any doubt as to who is under the microscope at the moment: University of Manitoba Bisons slotback Nic Demski.

"He's a stud," said Walters. "A stud, stud, stud. There's three receivers from the draft -- Demski, Lemar Durant from Simon Fraser and Addison Richards from Regina -- who could come in here and wouldn't be out of place competing for a starting spot, in my opinion."

It's here the debate is unfolding in the Bomber football offices, a discussion that will only be further fuelled when assistant GM/director of player personnel Ted Goveia, assistant GM/director of U.S. scouting Danny McManus and national scout Drew Morris arrive in Winnipeg on Monday to begin fine-tuning the team's preparations for the draft, in advance of the three regional player combines and the main evaluation camp later this month.

The draft is scheduled for May 12.

And the meat of the discussion goes something like this:

Should the Bombers grab an offensive lineman with the second overall pick they own, or go against the grain and nab a receiver, then hope that a draft deep in O-linemen will still serve up a solid prospect when they pick again at Nos. 11 and 15? Or even move down in the first round via trade and hope to land another later pick in a deep draft?

"The conventional wisdom is always O-line, O-line, O-line," said Walters. "The guard we would draft at No. 2 would be picked just because this is what you do: draft and develop offensive linemen. So you draft the O-lineman at No. 2... he's going to be good and you let him compete this year and you add some depth. Maybe in a year or two he's playing.

"But then because it's such a good draft, you could also bite the bullet this year and say, 'We got (Dominic) Picard in free agency. We feel comfortable with Picard, (Chris) Greaves, (Patrick) Neufeld and Matthias (Goossen). Three of them are going to be playing.

"So what if we went with the best football player with our first pick?"

Now, as much as the tried-and-true blueprint is to always draft O-linemen early, there could be some merit for the Bombers to go against the grain with the second pick. They plan to start two Canadians in their receiving corps -- Rory Kohlert and Julian Feoli-Gudino -- and traded Cory Watson and the 26th pick to Saskatchewan for homegrown prospect Kris Bastien, the rights to a neg-list player and the 15th selection. Kurt Goodrich and Ezra Millington, two other Canadian receivers, will also be in camp.

Granted, there isn't a Gerald Wilcox among that crew -- he was the last Canadian Bomber receiver to finish with more than 1,000 yards, way back in 1995 -- but landing another Canadian who could possibly start much more quickly than an offensive lineman would give the Bombers considerably more roster flexibility.

As it stands, the club's seven Canadian starters would come along the O-line (3), at receiver (2), linebacker (1) and cornerback (1).

"It's such a great draft and we're going to get a good one at No. 2 if we pick an O-lineman," said Walters.

"But none of them are going to come in and have you saying, 'Slam dunk, this kid is going to be better than Greaves, Picard, or Neufeld or Matthias.' There are a bunch of them that are going to be like Matthias -- good solid prospects that will be good pros. But they need some development.

"(Receiver) is a position where we could keep loading up. Since Cory (selected ninth in 2010), we really haven't spent any draft picks on receivers. All of this has sparked a ton of debate."

BLUE 'TO-DO' LIST

The Bombers still have some big-time holes on their depth chart and hope to find some plugs at next month's free-agent camp in Florida. Some of the numbers:

14 receivers are coming to the mini-c six would likely be invited to main camp.

Eight linebackers will be in Florida; five will advance to main camp.

12 defensive backs, seven to main camp.

The Bombers are also looking for a specific type of receiver.

"Big guys," said Walters. "We're looking for that 'X' receiver (wideout), that guy who is big, physical and a precise route-runner. That's one of the issues we had last year: Denny (Clarence Denmark) and Nick (Moore) are more or less the same type of guy, a slotback who handles the underneath stuff. But we need that big-play explosive receiver that can win one-on-one battles. That's what we need to find and we're trying to find as many as possible. They either have to be big Chris Matthews types who can just win with their size, or precise route runners."

"So you draft the O-lineman at No. 2... he's going to be good"   Shouldn't the goal be to get the BEST o-lineman?  To have the BEST o-line? We let other teams have their pick while we decide between the best of the remaining scraps?  Again? They get the best and we get "good"?

 

Does your Canadian receiving group really win Grey Cups? 

 

I just don't see Neufeld making it through a whole season un-injured. Morley will still be around.

I'd also like to see Morley kept around, but Walters didn't mention him as being part of this years plans. Walters also said he needs to cut some salary from the OL. All signs point to Morley retiring or being released.

 

 

And when talking about the NI Olinemen for the 2015 team in an article last month, he did the opposite - mentioned Morley and didn't say anything about Neufeld.  These aren't prepared statements vetted by a team of lawyers.  He's just talking like a normal human does where not every word leaving his mouth is weighed against being taken fully literally and placed under a microscope by the internet people.

 

While I agree odds are Morley probably isn't in the plans anymore, nothing about this article "reveals" anything about that.

"So you draft the O-lineman at No. 2... he's going to be good"   Shouldn't the goal be to get the BEST o-lineman?  To have the BEST o-line? We let other teams have their pick while we decide between the best of the remaining scraps?  Again? They get the best and we get "good"?

 

Does your Canadian receiving group really win Grey Cups? 

 

The goal is to have the best team of 46+ players.

OK so I will ask - what the hell is an "X" receiver? Wolvervine?

OK so I will ask - what the hell is an "X" receiver? Wolvervine?

Pretty sure it applies more to the NFL, but X receiver is the wide receiver furthest from the QB when the ball is snapped. The wr opposite the field is the Z receiver and is usually closer to the action. I don't know if a slot or tight end gets a letter designation when drawing up the plays.

 

I also think Wolverine would make a better safety than receiver, personally. He would bring the hurt every time.

I think it is really clear that Walters is looking for an X receiver. I, also, think it is really clear that Durant could fit that role. Whether separated by a header or not connect the dots. The draft is one avenue we could both bolster our NI starters AND address a position of need if we drafted Durant. Two birds with one stone has me agreeing with Mike, don't really care if a header seperates the two thoughts or not.

So you expect Durant to step right in his rookie year and make an impact as the starting X for the Bombers? Okay.

I know the easy response to this is to point out that Kito Poblah didn't pan out, but Lemar Durant is probably the most solid REC prospect the CFL has seen since Kito Poblah. Shamawd Chambers is up there too.

Durant is a very solid receiver and I definitely wouldn't write him off as a potential year one starter. There are going to be a few of them in this draft and I think he's got as good a shot as any.

Sure Durant could eventually become a stud, but relying on him to be your starting X receiver in his rookie year is unreasonable.

 

I think it is really clear that Walters is looking for an X receiver. I, also, think it is really clear that Durant could fit that role. Whether separated by a header or not connect the dots. The draft is one avenue we could both bolster our NI starters AND address a position of need if we drafted Durant. Two birds with one stone has me agreeing with Mike, don't really care if a header seperates the two thoughts or not.

So you expect Durant to step right in his rookie year and make an impact as the starting X for the Bombers? Okay.

 

 

I would expect for him to compete for the job. If he doesn't win it in his first year does that mean he would be an unwise pick in your mind? Not really sure what you are getting at. So what if he doesn't win the job. Maybe he doesn't win the X receiver position but is good enough to push Kohlert out or he moves inside and replaces JFG and gives us a stretch receiver down the middle.

He is the best receiving prospect in this draft. If we are going to go receiver why not draft him in hopes he can be our X receiver and know that if that doesn't pan out that he can compete with our other NI receivers for their jobs.

 

 

 

I think it is really clear that Walters is looking for an X receiver. I, also, think it is really clear that Durant could fit that role. Whether separated by a header or not connect the dots. The draft is one avenue we could both bolster our NI starters AND address a position of need if we drafted Durant. Two birds with one stone has me agreeing with Mike, don't really care if a header seperates the two thoughts or not.

So you expect Durant to step right in his rookie year and make an impact as the starting X for the Bombers? Okay.

I know the easy response to this is to point out that Kito Poblah didn't pan out, but Lemar Durant is probably the most solid REC prospect the CFL has seen since Kito Poblah. Shamawd Chambers is up there too.

Durant is a very solid receiver and I definitely wouldn't write him off as a potential year one starter. There are going to be a few of them in this draft and I think he's got as good a shot as any.

Sure Durant could eventually become a stud, but relying on him to be your starting X receiver in his rookie year is unreasonable.

 

 

Who said anything about relying on him to be our X receiver. How about drafting him and letting him compete for the job. What is unreasonable about that?

The draft isn't about playing this year.  It's about getting the best players for the future, 2 or 3 years down the road.  

 

I'd like to see us get the best O lineman we can and that means using our top pick, not waiting until the second round when the top O lineman have already been picked by other teams.  If Ottawa doesn't pick Waud then I'd be OK with changing the plan to pick the best DL available with our 1st round pick as I see him as a rotation guy in year 1 and I don't think much of Jake Thomas.

 

Still a long way off though.  It'll be interesting to see what happens with NFL draft and with the one on ones at the combine.

I think it is really clear that Walters is looking for an X receiver. I, also, think it is really clear that Durant could fit that role. Whether separated by a header or not connect the dots. The draft is one avenue we could both bolster our NI starters AND address a position of need if we drafted Durant. Two birds with one stone has me agreeing with Mike, don't really care if a header seperates the two thoughts or not.

So you expect Durant to step right in his rookie year and make an impact as the starting X for the Bombers? Okay.

I know the easy response to this is to point out that Kito Poblah didn't pan out, but Lemar Durant is probably the most solid REC prospect the CFL has seen since Kito Poblah. Shamawd Chambers is up there too.

Durant is a very solid receiver and I definitely wouldn't write him off as a potential year one starter. There are going to be a few of them in this draft and I think he's got as good a shot as any.

Sure Durant could eventually become a stud, but relying on him to be your starting X receiver in his rookie year is unreasonable.

Who said anything about relying on him to be our X receiver. How about drafting him and letting him compete for the job. What is unreasonable about that?

My point exactly. Earlier posters suggested Walters was looking at this years draft to fill our need for a big X receiver. I said that's unlikely and that Walters will be looking to the free agent camps to meet that need.

Perhaps the oddest part about this whole durant/demski debate or who take at 2 debate is, Ottawa picks 1st. Wouldn't they have a need for Durant? If they take Durant, I'm going to assume that they probably will, then who do we take? I've seen some mock drafts where it has Ottawa taking Alex Mateas with their first pick but... with trading their pick last year to calgary, is center really a big concern for them? Gott is pretty good i thought.  Picking at 2 means the guy you actually want might not be there because the team picking at 1 might want him too. So just for the sake of keeping this thread going lol, Let's pretend Ottawa takes Durant with the 1st overall pick, who do we then take at 2? 

 

Waud apparently has NFL interest, or i saw something that said he could be a late round pick, maybe as high as the 5th round even... do you take a chance there? I dunno if i would at 2. 

 

Demski? It would be a nice story but is he worth the 2nd overall pick?

 

Groulx? Is he worth the second overall pick, seems like he's fallen a bit in the rankings (injury no??) Might he still be there at 11?

 

Varga? NFL interest there for sure

 

Boyko? apparently didn't impress that much when he had a shot to show the NFL scouts what he was about but still, it's likely he's going to get an NFL shot

 

Who do you take at 2 if Durant isn't there. 

I like Groulx and Waud at 2, assuming neither have any NFL interest. I'd go Groulx over Waud.

I'd like to see us get the best O lineman we can and that means using our top pick, not waiting until the second round when the top O lineman have already been picked by other teams. 

This has me thinking... I'm curious to see whether the best OL get drafted first or if they're around later. If anyone is more bored than I am and could throw that information together it would be interesting to look at. I know there are some drafts where the best OL taken weren't the first guys taken. Would be neat to see just how accurate CFL teams are with their assessments. 

I think it's possible that with the amount of oline prospects in this draft that you could see a run on non oline players in the first round leaving some there at 11 and or 15. 

Any word on the supplemental draft? Would be good year for that

 

I'd like to see us get the best O lineman we can and that means using our top pick, not waiting until the second round when the top O lineman have already been picked by other teams. 

This has me thinking... I'm curious to see whether the best OL get drafted first or if they're around later. If anyone is more bored than I am and could throw that information together it would be interesting to look at. I know there are some drafts where the best OL taken weren't the first guys taken. Would be neat to see just how accurate CFL teams are with their assessments. 

 

It is interesting to see how many top/first round picks are busts compared to guys taken way later in the draft. I've always liked the Justin Sorensen/Luc Brodeur-Jordain comparison. In 2008, Sorensen was the 3rd OL taken that year, 5th overall (Labatte was the 4th OL, 6th overall)... Brodeur-Jourdain has been a division All-Star twice and was the very last player taken in the draft, 48th overall.

Pretty much everyone who has been mentioned as a potential first round pick in this draft has attended at least a regional NFL combine.  All they need is someone to like them, and chances are they are gone for at least half of this CFL season if not more.  Will be interesting to see how Walters navigates this.  Will he take a significantly lesser player just to have the guy at day 1 of training camp?

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/football/bombers/demskis-blue-chip-but-blue-better-off-drafting-hog-296530211.html

 

From this vantage point, the biggest mistake made when it comes to selecting players in the CFL draft is when teams get caught up in the potential of a player, and lose sight of the actual potential of the position.

Most CFL football franchises don't just stockpile Canadians on the offensive line because it's a good place to hide them. They play them there because that is the position where their abilities are most closely matched to their American counterparts, and therefore their production is maximized. And before you start a chicken or egg debate over this, think about the most common position from which Canadians get opportunities to play in the NFL? Once again, it's on the offensive line.

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According to an interview last Saturday with Winnipeg Blue Bombers GM Kyle Walters by Free Press football writer Ed Tait though, the team that set a record last year for giving up the most sacks in club history may now be getting starry-eyed and leaning toward taking a receiver with their first pick, instead of doing what is tried and true.

The rationale is the team already unexpectedly acquired a Canadian all-star by the name of Dominic Picard, an American all-star tackle by the name of Stanley Bryant in free agency, and they still have Chris Greaves, Patrick Neufeld and Matthias Goossen to battle for two guard spots. In fact, they also have a fifth Canadian on the roster to battle for those two guard spots in Steve Morley, but with the quote in Free Press columnist Gary Lawless's column over a month ago reporting he was no longer in the plans of the Blue and Gold, Morley can't be feeling too rosy about his future in Winnipeg. But that's an entirely different story.

To date, there is no question the Bombers have significantly improved their offensive line, and by proxy their running game, passing game and the health of Drew Willy -- but it's still not enough. With one injury to this group of Canadian linemen, one of whom already has an extensive injury history, and Morley reportedly out of the picture, you now have three Canadians staffing three spots. You can be sure the Blue and Gold will select at least one offensive lineman this draft, and most likely two, but what worries me after reading Tait's piece is they won't start taking them until the second round, which tends to mean a greater gamble as to whether they will pan out.

I'm as much a believer as the next guy Canadian players often have the abilities to match or exceed their American counterparts at almost every position on the field, but I'm also a believer in the reality of odds. And the odds tell me on offence, the position where Canadian players most often surpass the talents of American players is on the offensive line. Period. So the more of them you have there, the less you have to worry about potential disparities of talent elsewhere, like at receiver.

I have nothing against Canadian receivers, and I saw one of the best of all time -- Ben Cahoon -- on a regular basis. I also saw stretches of brilliance from Canadian catchers such as Andy Fantuz, Jason Clermont and players such as Ryan Getzlaf and Robb Bagg, but they are few and far between. The truth of the matter is the probability of finding an all-star calibre offensive lineman in the draft is exponentially higher than the chances of finding the equivalent-level Canadian receiver, such as a Joe Poplawski. Furthermore, a point of fact in 2014 is seven out of the 10 divisional all-stars on the offensive line were Canadian, and only one out of the eight receivers were homegrown.

Canadian receivers can and sometimes do play at a level commensurate with their American brethren, but they are as rare as a major capital project coming in on time and on budget in this city. When you draft, you have to look at not only what you gain with your selection but also what you potentially lose if you start a Canadian player there. And at the receiver position, like it or not, that often means losing a more dynamic, explosive and faster American threat down the field.

 

Doug Brown, once a hard-hitting defensive lineman and frequently a hard-hitting columnist, appears Tuesdays in the Free Press.

I don't really read Doug Brown's column. Don't like it.

The best players end up in the NFL, that's just the way it is but it doesn't mean you exclude them when you make your pick.

The best players end up in the NFL, that's just the way it is but it doesn't mean you exclude them when you make your pick.

Actually sometimes you have to.

Well Mr. Brown, 7 out of 10 all stars on the offensive line were Canadian, but only 3 of those 7 were first round picks, only one was a top 3 pick.

 

Everyone keeps saying this is a deep draft, the Bombers could draft an OL in the second round and still get a quality player who can develop. Whether or not they pick an OL at #2, the Bombers still come out of this draft with 2 OL.

I understand what Brown is saying and there is some merit to it, but he's not looking at things from the correct perspective. Yeah there are a lot of Canadians playing OL, but there's a lot of Canadians playing receiver too. Is there a team that doesn't use at least one and more often 2 Canadians at receiver? It's basically a guaranteed Canadian position and with some of the recent acquisitions on the OL taking a receiver in the draft can be just as good a move because you need Canadians at receiver too. 

I have nothing against Canadian receivers, and I saw one of the best of all time -- Ben Cahoon -- on a regular basis. I also saw stretches of brilliance from Canadian catchers such as Andy Fantuz, Jason Clermont and players such as Ryan Getzlaf and Robb Bagg

 

 

I've never seen Ryan Getzlaf play football.  Is he any good?  

I understand what Brown is saying and there is some merit to it, but he's not looking at things from the correct perspective. Yeah there are a lot of Canadians playing OL, but there's a lot of Canadians playing receiver too. Is there a team that doesn't use at least one and more often 2 Canadians at receiver? It's basically a guaranteed Canadian position and with some of the recent acquisitions on the OL taking a receiver in the draft can be just as good a move because you need Canadians at receiver too. 

 

It's basic math too.  If every team starts basically 3 NI OL, some 4, about 70% of the OL in the league are Canadian.  70% of them are all-stars.  If 70% of the receivers in the league were Canadian, 70% of the all-star receivers would likely be Canadian too.  It`s not really comparable at this point due to how teams build their rosters, right or wrong.

 

Fact is you need Canadians everywhere, and a Canadian starting at corner is worth the same as a Canadian starting at OL in terms of fulfilling the ratio.  The only spot we shouldn`t draft is quarterback.