17to85 Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Walters also made a trade for Neufeld soon after he was promoted. A trade that a number of people on this board said was a bad one. I gotta say - it is looking like one hell of a good trade right now (getting rid of a guy going to the NFL and a later round draft pick for a SOLID starting NI oline) It was a 2nd round draft pick, and given where the Bombers finished the season it was an early 2nd rounder... Here's the problem I still have with the trade: Walters had all the leverage in that trade. Riders wanted Hall, one of if not the best DE in the league for their playoff push, they were likely to lose Neufeld at least to the expansion draft anyway. Walters jumped the gun and paid too much. Hall and an actual late pick would have been one thing, but Hall and a high 2nd? That's an overpayment for a player the Riders were just trying to get some return on. I felt the same way at the time of the trade, but now I look at it like we got a starting OL for a second round pick... which we probably wouldn't have been able to do if we had kept the pick. We also got a fourth-rounder back in the trade. but you can't ignore Hall in the trade, he was a star player, the fact that he's not in the league now is irrelevant, he helped the Riders to win a Grey Cup, he was a huge part of the trade. Walters seems to me to pay whatever the cost to get his player which can be good or bad. At least he knows what he wants, but you can't always be paying sticker price in trades. Sticker price is sucker price. The thing is, nobody gives up starting OL. It took the first overall pick to pry Jon Gott out of Calgary... he is a good OL but definitely not the best in the league or anything. I believe that you are undervaluing Neufeld at this point. But he wasn't a starter in Saskatchewan and with the expansion draft coming up they were going to lose him anyway. It was them trading a depth player, and yes he was a depth player for them,in order to bolster their defensive line for a playoff run. No way should Walters have been adding a 2nd round pick. 4th round pick now we're talking, but not a 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jpan85 Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 I still think they pick Shologon if Neufeld was also available. Atomic and robynjt 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Perfect Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Not having a QB was our biggest issue by far. I like how Walters addressed that as soon as possible. There was no way he was getting Willy earlier than he did, Sask wasn't going to trade him away during the season and give up their only insurance. And even if Willy had been brought in during the season, he probably would have gotten killed with that horrible offense we were running. Anyway, onward we go. Do you think WIlly would have done OK here last year? Honest question..... Not a chance in hell. No one would have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelownabomberfan Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Not having a QB was our biggest issue by far. I like how Walters addressed that as soon as possible. There was no way he was getting Willy earlier than he did, Sask wasn't going to trade him away during the season and give up their only insurance. And even if Willy had been brought in during the season, he probably would have gotten killed with that horrible offense we were running. Anyway, onward we go. Do you think WIlly would have done OK here last year? Honest question..... No way he would have done ok here. Not without a change in the coaching staff. He would have been completely wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Walters also made a trade for Neufeld soon after he was promoted. A trade that a number of people on this board said was a bad one. I gotta say - it is looking like one hell of a good trade right now (getting rid of a guy going to the NFL and a later round draft pick for a SOLID starting NI oline) It was a 2nd round draft pick, and given where the Bombers finished the season it was an early 2nd rounder... Here's the problem I still have with the trade: Walters had all the leverage in that trade. Riders wanted Hall, one of if not the best DE in the league for their playoff push, they were likely to lose Neufeld at least to the expansion draft anyway. Walters jumped the gun and paid too much. Hall and an actual late pick would have been one thing, but Hall and a high 2nd? That's an overpayment for a player the Riders were just trying to get some return on. I felt the same way at the time of the trade, but now I look at it like we got a starting OL for a second round pick... which we probably wouldn't have been able to do if we had kept the pick. We also got a fourth-rounder back in the trade. but you can't ignore Hall in the trade, he was a star player, the fact that he's not in the league now is irrelevant, he helped the Riders to win a Grey Cup, he was a huge part of the trade. Walters seems to me to pay whatever the cost to get his player which can be good or bad. At least he knows what he wants, but you can't always be paying sticker price in trades. Sticker price is sucker price. The thing is, nobody gives up starting OL. It took the first overall pick to pry Jon Gott out of Calgary... he is a good OL but definitely not the best in the league or anything. I believe that you are undervaluing Neufeld at this point. But he wasn't a starter in Saskatchewan and with the expansion draft coming up they were going to lose him anyway. It was them trading a depth player, and yes he was a depth player for them,in order to bolster their defensive line for a playoff run. No way should Walters have been adding a 2nd round pick. 4th round pick now we're talking, but not a 2nd. The only reason Neufeld lost his starting job was to injury. When they thought he was healthy, he was right back in the starting lineup. It turned out his injury was worse than they thought so he went back on the injured reserve. But he was a starting OL before he got hurt and he is a starting OL now. Trying to twist it as anything else is inaccurate. Alex Hall had zero value to us, so losing him is nothing. I believe if the trade was straight up a second round pick for Neufeld, we would be looking at it as a steal. It's more about improving the team as a whole than saying "Hall should be worth X, so we didn't get enough back for him." The end result is we gained a starting OL and didn't lose a whole lot, so it is a good trade. blitzmore 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Pretty tough call on this trade... Neufeld is starting for us... but so would Dylan Ainsworth or Tchissakid Player I like the Briggs trade but also think Walters overpaid on that too - 20th and 26th should have got us 17th and Sask's 5th or even something in 2015 Even Woodson and a 5th for a 3rd round pick... Walters is a rookie GM - he is making good moves but overpaying a bit right now, that will only change for the better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Pretty tough call on this trade... Neufeld is starting for us... but so would Dylan Ainsworth or Tchissakid Player I like the Briggs trade but also think Walters overpaid on that too - 20th and 26th should have got us 17th and Sask's 5th or even something in 2015 Even Woodson and a 5th for a 3rd round pick... Walters is a rookie GM - he is making good moves but overpaying a bit right now, that will only change for the better Ainsworth would start? Based on what? T. Player has lost his job in BC already, no way he is on the same level as Neufeld. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jpan85 Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Got the rights to Randle and Willy for Jade and moving down 3 three spots in the 3rd round. That move guarantees you get two game breakers in the line up. You trade Aprile to get a Canadian starter. Floyd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Pretty tough call on this trade... Neufeld is starting for us... but so would Dylan Ainsworth or Tchissakid Player I like the Briggs trade but also think Walters overpaid on that too - 20th and 26th should have got us 17th and Sask's 5th or even something in 2015 Even Woodson and a 5th for a 3rd round pick... Walters is a rookie GM - he is making good moves but overpaying a bit right now, that will only change for the better Ainsworth would start? Based on what? T. Player has lost his job in BC already, no way he is on the same level as Neufeld. Ainsworth would be rotating, same as Louie Richardson. Player lost his job when Valli came back I believe... We'll just agree to disagree - I don't think Neufeld is a great guard - I think there would be more value in playing Goossen there right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR. CFL Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Maybe Turner might like to reflect on his comment and think about picking up his game.....not really lighting it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Pretty tough call on this trade... Neufeld is starting for us... but so would Dylan Ainsworth or Tchissakid Player I like the Briggs trade but also think Walters overpaid on that too - 20th and 26th should have got us 17th and Sask's 5th or even something in 2015 Even Woodson and a 5th for a 3rd round pick... Walters is a rookie GM - he is making good moves but overpaying a bit right now, that will only change for the better Ainsworth would start? Based on what? T. Player has lost his job in BC already, no way he is on the same level as Neufeld. Ainsworth would be rotating, same as Louie Richardson. Player lost his job when Valli came back I believe... We'll just agree to disagree - I don't think Neufeld is a great guard - I think there would be more value in playing Goossen there right now. I don't think Neufeld is a great guard either but Valli is one of the worst in the league and Player lost his job to him. If Goossen was ready to play he would have been starting in Greaves' spot. Basically what you're saying is that you would have rather kept the pick and had a worse OL this year, and I can't agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrg Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Walters also made a trade for Neufeld soon after he was promoted. A trade that a number of people on this board said was a bad one. I gotta say - it is looking like one hell of a good trade right now (getting rid of a guy going to the NFL and a later round draft pick for a SOLID starting NI oline) It was a 2nd round draft pick, and given where the Bombers finished the season it was an early 2nd rounder... Here's the problem I still have with the trade: Walters had all the leverage in that trade. Riders wanted Hall, one of if not the best DE in the league for their playoff push, they were likely to lose Neufeld at least to the expansion draft anyway. Walters jumped the gun and paid too much. Hall and an actual late pick would have been one thing, but Hall and a high 2nd? That's an overpayment for a player the Riders were just trying to get some return on. I felt the same way at the time of the trade, but now I look at it like we got a starting OL for a second round pick... which we probably wouldn't have been able to do if we had kept the pick. We also got a fourth-rounder back in the trade. but you can't ignore Hall in the trade, he was a star player, the fact that he's not in the league now is irrelevant, he helped the Riders to win a Grey Cup, he was a huge part of the trade. Walters seems to me to pay whatever the cost to get his player which can be good or bad. At least he knows what he wants, but you can't always be paying sticker price in trades. Sticker price is sucker price. The thing is, nobody gives up starting OL. It took the first overall pick to pry Jon Gott out of Calgary... he is a good OL but definitely not the best in the league or anything. I believe that you are undervaluing Neufeld at this point. But he wasn't a starter in Saskatchewan and with the expansion draft coming up they were going to lose him anyway. It was them trading a depth player, and yes he was a depth player for them,in order to bolster their defensive line for a playoff run. No way should Walters have been adding a 2nd round pick. 4th round pick now we're talking, but not a 2nd. I'm guessing if the roles were reversed you might not be too happy about giving up a Canadian Olineman for a guy who was headed to the NFL in two months. Both teams had something the other team wanted. Not sure were really had them over any barrels. Not a lot of teams lining up to give us a Canadian Olineman. Maybe they had us over a barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holoman Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Maybe Turner might like to reflect on his comment and think about picking up his game.....not really lighting it up. Ahhh, You're one of those "looks at stats to base an argument from " kind of guy blitzmore and MinisterOfD5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrg Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Maybe Turner might like to reflect on his comment and think about picking up his game.....not really lighting it up. Ahhh, You're one of those "looks at stats to base an argument from " kind of guy Call 1-800 -DOCTORB. The B is for bargain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnzo Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 The Neufeld trade is simple. The Roughriders traded a guy they couldn't use in 2013 or 2014 for a guy they could use in 2013.We traded a guy who wasn't going to make a difference in 2013 and who would be gone in 2014 for a guy we desperately needed in 2014, and we threw in a draft pick who became a roster DL for the saskies.In 2013, the Riders won that trade.In 2014, the Bombers win that trade.In 2015 and onwards, we'll compare Neufeld + our fourth-round pick vs. Ainsworth and see who won the trade. I've got a feeling that unless Ainsworth becomes someone special, we'll be pleased with this trade in 2015. bearpants 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Edit due to confusion Floyd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Tim Burke? Ignorant. Burke was a quitter. He blamed everyone else for his shortcomings as a head coach & brought everybody down with him. He coached & acted that way on the sidelines, at practice & in front of the media. Blue-urns, FrostyWinnipeg, blitzmore and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbill2004 Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Yep, Burke was the biggest "cancer" on the Bombers last year. FrostyWinnipeg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Walters also made a trade for Neufeld soon after he was promoted. A trade that a number of people on this board said was a bad one. I gotta say - it is looking like one hell of a good trade right now (getting rid of a guy going to the NFL and a later round draft pick for a SOLID starting NI oline) It was a 2nd round draft pick, and given where the Bombers finished the season it was an early 2nd rounder... Here's the problem I still have with the trade: Walters had all the leverage in that trade. Riders wanted Hall, one of if not the best DE in the league for their playoff push, they were likely to lose Neufeld at least to the expansion draft anyway. Walters jumped the gun and paid too much. Hall and an actual late pick would have been one thing, but Hall and a high 2nd? That's an overpayment for a player the Riders were just trying to get some return on. I felt the same way at the time of the trade, but now I look at it like we got a starting OL for a second round pick... which we probably wouldn't have been able to do if we had kept the pick. We also got a fourth-rounder back in the trade. but you can't ignore Hall in the trade, he was a star player, the fact that he's not in the league now is irrelevant, he helped the Riders to win a Grey Cup, he was a huge part of the trade. Walters seems to me to pay whatever the cost to get his player which can be good or bad. At least he knows what he wants, but you can't always be paying sticker price in trades. Sticker price is sucker price. The thing is, nobody gives up starting OL. It took the first overall pick to pry Jon Gott out of Calgary... he is a good OL but definitely not the best in the league or anything. I believe that you are undervaluing Neufeld at this point. But he wasn't a starter in Saskatchewan and with the expansion draft coming up they were going to lose him anyway. It was them trading a depth player, and yes he was a depth player for them,in order to bolster their defensive line for a playoff run. No way should Walters have been adding a 2nd round pick. 4th round pick now we're talking, but not a 2nd. I'm guessing if the roles were reversed you might not be too happy about giving up a Canadian Olineman for a guy who was headed to the NFL in two months. Both teams had something the other team wanted. Not sure were really had them over any barrels. Not a lot of teams lining up to give us a Canadian Olineman. Maybe they had us over a barrel. If I was on the otherside I'd still be basking in the glow of a championship team. It's disgraceful that people are trying to insinuate that Hall had no value. Walters got antsy to make the move and didn't play hardball and paid more than he could have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blitzmore Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Walters also made a trade for Neufeld soon after he was promoted. A trade that a number of people on this board said was a bad one. I gotta say - it is looking like one hell of a good trade right now (getting rid of a guy going to the NFL and a later round draft pick for a SOLID starting NI oline) It was a 2nd round draft pick, and given where the Bombers finished the season it was an early 2nd rounder... Here's the problem I still have with the trade: Walters had all the leverage in that trade. Riders wanted Hall, one of if not the best DE in the league for their playoff push, they were likely to lose Neufeld at least to the expansion draft anyway. Walters jumped the gun and paid too much. Hall and an actual late pick would have been one thing, but Hall and a high 2nd? That's an overpayment for a player the Riders were just trying to get some return on. I felt the same way at the time of the trade, but now I look at it like we got a starting OL for a second round pick... which we probably wouldn't have been able to do if we had kept the pick. We also got a fourth-rounder back in the trade. but you can't ignore Hall in the trade, he was a star player, the fact that he's not in the league now is irrelevant, he helped the Riders to win a Grey Cup, he was a huge part of the trade. Walters seems to me to pay whatever the cost to get his player which can be good or bad. At least he knows what he wants, but you can't always be paying sticker price in trades. Sticker price is sucker price. The thing is, nobody gives up starting OL. It took the first overall pick to pry Jon Gott out of Calgary... he is a good OL but definitely not the best in the league or anything. I believe that you are undervaluing Neufeld at this point. But he wasn't a starter in Saskatchewan and with the expansion draft coming up they were going to lose him anyway. It was them trading a depth player, and yes he was a depth player for them,in order to bolster their defensive line for a playoff run. No way should Walters have been adding a 2nd round pick. 4th round pick now we're talking, but not a 2nd. I'm guessing if the roles were reversed you might not be too happy about giving up a Canadian Olineman for a guy who was headed to the NFL in two months. Both teams had something the other team wanted. Not sure were really had them over any barrels. Not a lot of teams lining up to give us a Canadian Olineman. Maybe they had us over a barrel. If I was on the otherside I'd still be basking in the glow of a championship team. It's disgraceful that people are trying to insinuate that Hall had no value. Walters got antsy to make the move and didn't play hardball and paid more than he could have. So what is your perceived solution? Not make the deal? Because if the other team sticks by their guns you make the deal or don't! Overpaying is subjective not objective! If I buy a car and I feel that I didn't get fleeced then I didn't get fleeced. Blue-urns and Adrenaline_x 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearpants Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Maybe Turner might like to reflect on his comment and think about picking up his game.....not really lighting it up. I know this has been asked before, but I feel it's worth bringing up again since you never gave an answer... Where, exactly, did you get your doctorate from again?? MinisterOfD5, Blue-urns and Mr. Perfect 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrg Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 If I was on the otherside I'd still be basking in the glow of a championship team. It's disgraceful that people are trying to insinuate that Hall had no value. Walters got antsy to make the move and didn't play hardball and paid more than he could have. I doubt anyone is saying Hall didn't have value. We're not getting Neufeld and that 4th for a 2nd round pick. Given his contract was set to expire and he wasn't going to re-sign and there were only a few games left in the season and we had pretty much locked up last place, his value to our team was minimal. His value to a team pushing for a cup? Much higher, but they were in contention without him. A 2nd rounder is too much if we get nothing from Neufeld going forward, and if we thought we'd get nothing out of Neufeld going forward then we never should have made the trade at all. Arguing over entirely subjective things is pretty pointless, so...yeah. I'd also prefer we got Neufeld for less, that was not to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 I doubt anyone is saying Hall didn't have value plenty of people have said exactly that when they try and justify it by saying that if you look at it as Neufeld for a 2nd round pick it's good value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Pretty tough call on this trade... Neufeld is starting for us... but so would Dylan Ainsworth or Tchissakid Player I like the Briggs trade but also think Walters overpaid on that too - 20th and 26th should have got us 17th and Sask's 5th or even something in 2015 Even Woodson and a 5th for a 3rd round pick... Walters is a rookie GM - he is making good moves but overpaying a bit right now, that will only change for the better He's had to overpay as we had nothing of value last year other than a handful of players as the cupboards were bare thanks to Joe Mack & Mike Kelly. That's like two major Category 5 hurricanes striking Florida in the same place a week apart. Our team was a wasteland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbill2004 Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Tchissakid Player was benched a few games ago by the Lions. He wouldn't be starting for us now. Blue-urns and Mr. Perfect 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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