17to85 Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 The fact that there is a revolving door as you say speaks to the problem ... A dominating back Like Cornish, Andrew Harris and Charles Roberts is a real find and they don't grow on trees even in the great American south .... absolutely ridiculous sentiments. The reason Harris and Cornish are not challenged is primarily because of their passport and Charles Roberts was freakishly durable. Most running backs take such a beating their bodies can't sustain that level of play for 8 years, that's a big part of the reason why you see such a revolving door. You can bring up a guy who is capable of leading the league in rushing pretty easily, just that most of them can't sustain the level of play for many years and get replaced by another one of those new guys who is capable of doing it. With Harris and Cornish though there aren't the numbers of Canadians who can run at that level so they don't face the same kind of challenges an american would. Expecting to find another RB like Roberts is wasting time as well. He's one of the all time greats, those guys don't come along all the time, might as well ***** and moan that we haven't replaced Milt Stegall yet either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlue Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 The fact that there is a revolving door as you say speaks to the problem ... A dominating back Like Cornish, Andrew Harris and Charles Roberts is a real find and they don't grow on trees even in the great American south .... absolutely ridiculous sentiments. The reason Harris and Cornish are not challenged is primarily because of their passport and Charles Roberts was freakishly durable. Most running backs take such a beating their bodies can't sustain that level of play for 8 years, that's a big part of the reason why you see such a revolving door. You can bring up a guy who is capable of leading the league in rushing pretty easily, just that most of them can't sustain the level of play for many years and get replaced by another one of those new guys who is capable of doing it. With Harris and Cornish though there aren't the numbers of Canadians who can run at that level so they don't face the same kind of challenges an american would. Expecting to find another RB like Roberts is wasting time as well. He's one of the all time greats, those guys don't come along all the time, might as well ***** and moan that we haven't replaced Milt Stegall yet either. Couldn't agree with you more: Most running backs take such a beating their bodies can't sustain that level of play for 8 years, that's a big part of the reason why you see such a revolving door I was just countering some of the reasoning going on in this thread .... good running backs are hard to find and Ford was good enough ... not a discard ... that's my whole point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Dee Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 There is something odd or 'off' about that whole Will Ford scenario. Right from the non-signing at free agency..right through training camp, then right up to his release. Some think it's a mistake, but if Will Ford was really going to be the guy…make no mistake, he would have been the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 The fact that there is a revolving door as you say speaks to the problem ... A dominating back Like Cornish, Andrew Harris and Charles Roberts is a real find and they don't grow on trees even in the great American south .... absolutely ridiculous sentiments. The reason Harris and Cornish are not challenged is primarily because of their passport and Charles Roberts was freakishly durable. Most running backs take such a beating their bodies can't sustain that level of play for 8 years, that's a big part of the reason why you see such a revolving door. You can bring up a guy who is capable of leading the league in rushing pretty easily, just that most of them can't sustain the level of play for many years and get replaced by another one of those new guys who is capable of doing it. With Harris and Cornish though there aren't the numbers of Canadians who can run at that level so they don't face the same kind of challenges an american would. Expecting to find another RB like Roberts is wasting time as well. He's one of the all time greats, those guys don't come along all the time, might as well ***** and moan that we haven't replaced Milt Stegall yet either. Couldn't agree with you more: Most running backs take such a beating their bodies can't sustain that level of play for 8 years, that's a big part of the reason why you see such a revolving door I was just countering some of the reasoning going on in this thread .... good running backs are hard to find and Ford was good enough ... not a discard ... that's my whole point but good running backs are easy to find... the difference between a great back and a good back is pretty much that durability, but it's a really really replaceable position. Ford was decent but simply not consistent enough to be the every day starter. Grigsby suffers from some of the same problems, not good enough at breaking tackles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blitzmore Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 The real problem is the running backs are coached by a guy who has never coached running backs FrostyWinnipeg and Logan007 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlue Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 The fact that there is a revolving door as you say speaks to the problem ... A dominating back Like Cornish, Andrew Harris and Charles Roberts is a real find and they don't grow on trees even in the great American south .... absolutely ridiculous sentiments. The reason Harris and Cornish are not challenged is primarily because of their passport and Charles Roberts was freakishly durable. Most running backs take such a beating their bodies can't sustain that level of play for 8 years, that's a big part of the reason why you see such a revolving door. You can bring up a guy who is capable of leading the league in rushing pretty easily, just that most of them can't sustain the level of play for many years and get replaced by another one of those new guys who is capable of doing it. With Harris and Cornish though there aren't the numbers of Canadians who can run at that level so they don't face the same kind of challenges an american would. Expecting to find another RB like Roberts is wasting time as well. He's one of the all time greats, those guys don't come along all the time, might as well ***** and moan that we haven't replaced Milt Stegall yet either. Couldn't agree with you more: Most running backs take such a beating their bodies can't sustain that level of play for 8 years, that's a big part of the reason why you see such a revolving door I was just countering some of the reasoning going on in this thread .... good running backs are hard to find and Ford was good enough ... not a discard ... that's my whole point but good running backs are easy to find... the difference between a great back and a good back is pretty much that durability, but it's a really really replaceable position. Ford was decent but simply not consistent enough to be the every day starter. Grigsby suffers from some of the same problems, not good enough at breaking tackles. agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyWinnipeg Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 The real problem is the running backs are coached by a guy who has never coached running backs So it's Bucks fault? I like this theory in fact I love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlue Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 The real problem is the running backs are coached by a guy who has never coached running backs So it's Bucks fault? I like this theory in fact I love it. Buck may have been a better running back than a QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Interesting comment on Buck. I was thinking during the game that it might not be a bad idea to have Buck down on the sidelines talking to Grigsby. Buck and Bellefeuille are both up in the booth so when Grigsby screws up, there isn't really anyone to tell him what he did wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Interesting comment on Buck. I was thinking during the game that it might not be a bad idea to have Buck down on the sidelines talking to Grigsby. Buck and Bellefeuille are both up in the booth so when Grigsby screws up, there isn't really anyone to tell him what he did wrong. Presumably, Grigsby has these mistakes brought to his attention after each game, but he doesn't seem to get it. How do you coach a player to jump on a fumble instead of gaping at it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacquie Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Interesting comment on Buck. I was thinking during the game that it might not be a bad idea to have Buck down on the sidelines talking to Grigsby. Buck and Bellefeuille are both up in the booth so when Grigsby screws up, there isn't really anyone to tell him what he did wrong. He doesn't need to be on the sidelines to talk to Grigsby right away. Just put him on the headset. SPuDS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPuDS Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Interesting comment on Buck. I was thinking during the game that it might not be a bad idea to have Buck down on the sidelines talking to Grigsby. Buck and Bellefeuille are both up in the booth so when Grigsby screws up, there isn't really anyone to tell him what he did wrong. He doesn't need to be on the sidelines to talk to Grigsby right away. Just put him on the headset. No! Those are for QBs only! RBs must use the phone like us regular schleps.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Interesting comment on Buck. I was thinking during the game that it might not be a bad idea to have Buck down on the sidelines talking to Grigsby. Buck and Bellefeuille are both up in the booth so when Grigsby screws up, there isn't really anyone to tell him what he did wrong. He doesn't need to be on the sidelines to talk to Grigsby right away. Just put him on the headset. Interesting comment on Buck. I was thinking during the game that it might not be a bad idea to have Buck down on the sidelines talking to Grigsby. Buck and Bellefeuille are both up in the booth so when Grigsby screws up, there isn't really anyone to tell him what he did wrong. He doesn't need to be on the sidelines to talk to Grigsby right away. Just put him on the headset. What's Buck going to tell him? Not a slight on Buck but he was a qb & wasn't a running back. Even though he's his position coach I don't think Pierce can give Grigsby any pearls of wisdom that anyone else can't. I think they're grooming Buck to be the qb coach in a year or two so he's up in the booth watching & listening to Bellefeuille. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Perfect Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Sorry but that's a bad argument. First because running back coach is on most staffs an entry level position into coaching regardless of the position the actual coach played in the past. Secondly Buck is not the only coach to oversee a position they didn't play. For example in Green Bay, Edgar Bennett is the team's receivers coach when he played running back in his career. I know the obvious counter to that is that running backs catch the ball too, but they don't run nearly the variety of routes a receiver does, nevermind other responsibilities of the position. Another example is Alex Van Pelt (same staff) who played his career as a quarterback and got his start in coaching as a running backs coach (which he was very successful at). He's since been promoted to quarterbacks coach but the point is, is that A) coaches on a staff often oversee a position that is different than what they played, and B ) A running backs coach is, as I said an entry level position into coaching so to suggest that Grigsby (or any back on the roster) has nothing to learn from Buck is simply not correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 I didn't say that, exactly. Well, maybe I did, I don't know. I just meant that as a qb, he wouldn't have any great pearls of wisdom to offer on the sidelines that wouldn't be discussed in video sessions later. The thing with running back is you have to be able to run. That's a given & you can't coach toughness & athleticism. At that level, guys have it or they don't. What I think happens is that Bellefeuille & Buck are up in the booth & would relay advice & instructions down to the bench from what they saw to the backs... Like a missed block. Maybe giving the play away by leaning too far to the left or right, etc. I coached positions I never played & it's not the easiest thing to do sometimes as you are out of your element as a coach at times & rely on the advice of others to help. I coached offensive line in bantam back in 03 & man, when I was asked to do it I nearly crapped my pants as I was never an OL. But things turned out alright as we were city champs that year. But I had to do a lot of studying away from the practice field to learn how to coach my guys. And watch a lot of coaching videos to learn fundamentals & blocking schemes. Certainly as the season goes on, Buck will garner more knowledge & get better. I can say, a more natural position for a qb to coach other than qbs is receiver as it relies on reading coverages & route running something a qb knows a great deal about. But with Buck doing running backs, it'll help him to become a more well rounded coach & an offensive coordinator someday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacquie Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Sorry but that's a bad argument. First because running back coach is on most staffs an entry level position into coaching regardless of the position the actual coach played in the past. Secondly Buck is not the only coach to oversee a position they didn't play. For example in Green Bay, Edgar Bennett is the team's receivers coach when he played running back in his career. I know the obvious counter to that is that running backs catch the ball too, but they don't run nearly the variety of routes a receiver does, nevermind other responsibilities of the position. Another example is Alex Van Pelt (same staff) who played his career as a quarterback and got his start in coaching as a running backs coach (which he was very successful at). He's since been promoted to quarterbacks coach but the point is, is that A) coaches on a staff often oversee a position that is different than what they played, and B ) A running backs coach is, as I said an entry level position into coaching so to suggest that Grigsby (or any back on the roster) has nothing to learn from Buck is simply not correct. And a CFL example would be Dave Dickenson who started as the Stamps RB coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearpants Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 I think Buck can have a lot of influence on the RBs.... his job is not to say "hold the ball this way" or "run that way"... his job for in game adjustments would be to ask the RB what he saw on a particularly bad play and figure out a way to fix it... recognize defensive formations, pick up blitz, pre-snap reads, etc... Buck would know a lot about these things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noeller Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Any QB that doesn't fully understand the job of an RB isn't much of a QB... Dascow, Fraser and Atomic 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearpants Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Any QB that doesn't fully understand the job of an RB isn't much of a QB... That's exactly it... I've never understood why some people were so up in arms over hiring Buck as a RB coach.... "But he never played RB!!!" they said Noeller 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
road griller Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Like having Buck as a coach, the man loves football and has the passion and football smarts to succeed. Noeller 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrg Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Will Ford had one good game behind a very strong OL against a piss poor D. Good for him. Not calling it a mistake to cut him. yes good o-line and grandma could have picked up 50 yards behind them ... but the other 67 was Will Ford ... finds holes, breaks tackles, gets in the right position to catch passes, makes blocks ... doing all that better than Grigsby Management never gave a proven veteran (and an all star) a chance and that was a mistake .... still feels like they are cleaning house from last year .... Will Ford did not play himself off our team Ford's results against Toronto were so predicable I had him in my initial TSN fantasy line-up at the start of the week. (then swapped him out when he was still sitting on the PR at mid-week) (son of a argh) You are right. Ford did not play himself off of our team. He also did not play himself on to our team. Cotton and Grigsby did. Stuff happens. Get over it. If events had unfolded differently he might still be here, but they did not. This happens all the time in pro football, especially at QB, where opportunities might consist of 5 plays in a pre-season game. He seemed like a decent guy and I'm glad he found a job. I hope he does well, other than during a 10 day stretch around the end of August. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Interesting comment on Buck. I was thinking during the game that it might not be a bad idea to have Buck down on the sidelines talking to Grigsby. Buck and Bellefeuille are both up in the booth so when Grigsby screws up, there isn't really anyone to tell him what he did wrong. He doesn't need to be on the sidelines to talk to Grigsby right away. Just put him on the headset. Sure... but in-person conversation is always better. Ever worked in an office where you talk on the phone with someone for half an hour and don't get anywhere... then you walk over to their desk and get everything worked out in five minutes? There is a big difference between phone conversation and in-person conversation, and I don't think that can even be debated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Interesting comment on Buck. I was thinking during the game that it might not be a bad idea to have Buck down on the sidelines talking to Grigsby. Buck and Bellefeuille are both up in the booth so when Grigsby screws up, there isn't really anyone to tell him what he did wrong. He doesn't need to be on the sidelines to talk to Grigsby right away. Just put him on the headset. What's Buck going to tell him? Not a slight on Buck but he was a qb & wasn't a running back. Even though he's his position coach I don't think Pierce can give Grigsby any pearls of wisdom that anyone else can't. I think they're grooming Buck to be the qb coach in a year or two so he's up in the booth watching & listening to Bellefeuille. Hmm... so Buck being our RB coach is more about grooming Buck than about grooming our RB's? That doesn't seem right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Dee Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Not for a second do I think Buck is not fully committed to being as good a RB Coach as he can be…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty Liver Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Interesting comment on Buck. I was thinking during the game that it might not be a bad idea to have Buck down on the sidelines talking to Grigsby. Buck and Bellefeuille are both up in the booth so when Grigsby screws up, there isn't really anyone to tell him what he did wrong. He doesn't need to be on the sidelines to talk to Grigsby right away. Just put him on the headset. What good is a headset if Grigsby can't see where Buck is pointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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