Burke Calls The Team "immature"

[Mike]

So if he isn't or he can't, who is?

 

If it's not Burke or Crowton, then are you saying it's Mack's call?

 

What I'm suggesting is seen as how it was Burke who wanted Pierce all along, could he be the one insisting that we continue to use him despite the OC preferring otherwise?

 

No proof, just wondering out loud.

[iso_55]

Forde may be great with evaluating CIS players but he has zero connections down south.... And that is exactly where our qbs come from. Hiring him to be anything other than a Canadian Player Personnel Director would be foolhardy. And we already have Walters there now doing the job. Duane Forde has zip for experience. Personally, if Mack is fired Forde's the last guy I want running this team because he has absolutely no connections in the US or any kind of football managing experience. Meanwhile in Toronto there is a man who is Director Of Officiating For The CFL who would fit into the Bomber organization like a hand inside a glove.

[Dascow]

What I'm suggesting is seen as how it was Burke who wanted Pierce all along, could he be the one insisting that we continue to use him despite the OC preferring otherwise?

 

No proof, just wondering out loud.

 

Understood.

 

It does feel that way, I must admit.

[Fraser]

Forde may be great with evaluating CIS players but he has zero connections down south.... And that is exactly where our qbs come from. Hiring him to be anything other than a Canadian Player Personnel Director would be foolhardy. The  guy has zip for experience. personally, if Mack is fired Forde's the last guy I want running this team because he has absolutely no experience. Meanwhile in Toronto there is a man who is Director Of Officiating For The CFL who would fit into the Bomber organization like a hand inside a glove

 

Does anyone think that being director of officiating and then going to work for an individual team is even somewhat of a grey area?

[iso_55]

Does anyone think that being director of officiating and then going to work for an individual team is even somewhat of a grey area?

What grey area? He resigns his position with the CFL & then goes to work for the Bombers. No conflict of interest. It would though, be interesting to see his first verbal clash with a head referee on a bad call. Amusing, actually. Football coaches go from job to job seemlessly. They work for a team one  year then coach against them the next. I can't see Higgins leaving the CFL to coach a specific team as being a problem.

[Fraser]

What grey area? He resigns his position with the CFL & then goes to work for the Bombers. No conflict of interest.

 

I get that he resigns in full and everything, it just seems unusual. I guess one guy owns 2 teams so nothing is really out of the ordinary in the CFL.

[iso_55]

I get that he resigns in full and everything, it just seems unusual. I guess one guy owns 2 teams so nothing is really out of the ordinary in the CFL.

I was going to mention that in my response to you but didn't. That is the ultimate conflict of interest. Like to see Braley unload the Lions & concentrate solely on the Argos as that team needs strong ownership to survive. But that is a discussion for another thread.

[Atomic]

What grey area? He resigns his position with the CFL & then goes to work for the Bombers. No conflict of interest. It would though, be interesting to see his first verbal clash with a head referee on a bad call. Amusing, actually. Football coaches go from job to job seemlessly. They work for a team one  year then coach against them the next. I can't see Higgins leaving the CFL to coach a specific team as being a problem.

 

Unless all the refs hate him and make calls against us because he is our coach/GM.

[Fraser]

What grey area? He resigns his position with the CFL & then goes to work for the Bombers. No conflict of interest. It would though, be interesting to see his first verbal clash with a head referee on a bad call. Amusing, actually. Football coaches go from job to job seemlessly. They work for a team one  year then coach against them the next. I can't see Higgins leaving the CFL to coach a specific team as being a problem.

 

I guess it would seem odd if Higgins is throwing a challenge flag and the guy reviewing it in the command center is his former subordinate.

The clash with a ref would be amusing because a year removed from that Higgins would be the authority on Rules and now he's arguing them. He could be fined for questioning a call in the media when a year earlier he's the man incharge of questioning a call. I think moving from officiating to football ops is a different move than from one football ops to the other. I assume the director of officaiting hires the ref's or is involved with it so it could work out that a ref Higgins has hired ends up officiating a game he coaches. Not saying its the end of the world but it's a little off.

[iso_55]

I guess it would seem odd if Higgins is throwing a challenge flag and the guy reviewing it in the command center is his former subordinate.

The clash with a ref would be amusing because a year removed from that Higgins would be the authority on Rules and now he's arguing them. He could be fined for questioning a call in the media when a year earlier he's the man incharge of questioning a call. I think moving from officiating to football ops is a different move than from one football ops to the other. I assume the director of officaiting hires the ref's or is involved with it so it could work out that a ref Higgins has hired ends up officiating a game he coaches. Not saying its the end of the world but it's a little off.

Sure, it'd be amusing to watch but not enough where he couldn't go work for a CFL team.

[TBURGESS]

and how's that worked out for the past 20 years? Haven't developed a qb in that time, haven't had organizational depth in that time... and the biggest reason for that is that coaches and GMs are fired at the slightest slip up and then we're back to starting from square one. A little patience would go a LONG way to solving those problems. Everyone bitched about them at the time, but wouldn't Doug Berry and Kevin Glenn look better than what we have now? But we don't have them because of the attitude that you are expressing here. 

I agree about both Berry and Glenn.  In fact, I had long arguments with folks who wanted them fired at the time.  We were making the playoffs every year and we had a chance in most games.  Horrible decisions to get rid of both of them because we were heading in the right direction at the time.  We aren't heading in the right direction anymore, so its time for another change IMHO.  

 

You managed to pick the one HC and the one QB that we shouldn't have fired in the last 20 years.  Firing the Kelly's and Rein-dolts were good decisions as was getting rid of Bauer and most of the other HC's along the way.  You have the egg in front of the chicken.  It's not because we fired too many HC's and GM's.  It's because we hired the wrong ones. 

[17to85]

I agree about both Berry and Glenn.  In fact, I had long arguments with folks who wanted them fired at the time.  We were making the playoffs every year and we had a chance in most games.  Horrible decisions to get rid of both of them because we were heading in the right direction at the time.  We aren't heading in the right direction anymore, so its time for another change IMHO.  

 

You managed to pick the one HC and the one QB that we shouldn't have fired in the last 20 years.  Firing the Kelly's and Rein-dolts were good decisions as was getting rid of Bauer and most of the other HC's along the way.  You have the egg in front of the chicken.  It's not because we fired too many HC's and GM's.  It's because we hired the wrong ones. 

but it was firing Berry that led to Kelly and that set the team back at least 3 years. Firing Ritchie and going to Daley set the team back... that's the main point here. You may think the next guy can't be worse... but he might be. He might do long term damage to the team, like Kelly did. If nothing else, Mack is not doing long term harm to the team and is steadily improving the depth in the organization. Even if he doesn't put them over the top we aren't hurting anything keeping him around and when they decide to move on at least he's left a solid foundation for the next person to build on. That's why I advocate patience in the situation we are in right now. 

[TBURGESS]

If you assume this, why do you not assume that a bottom rung QB makes our offense look worse than it actually is?

I agree that a bottom rung QB makes our offense look worse than it could look, but that doesn't mean that a good QB would raise the level of our team past the middle of the league.  

[17to85]

I agree that a bottom rung QB makes our offense look worse than it could look, but that doesn't mean that a good QB would raise the level of our team past the middle of the league.  

despite there being a ton of evidence throughout the CFL that says otherwise?

[iso_55]

Just look at how Lyle Bauer firing Berry & hiring Mike Kelly set the Bombers back. What, almost half a decade??? Unbelievably stupid. As far as I am concerned Lyle Bauer is totally to to blame for everything that is wrong with the team now. Really hard for me to forgive him for doing what he did. When he went to the Stamps, I figured he would stab Huff in the back to be able to eventuall run the football side of the operation. He never got that chance.

[17to85]

Just look at how Lyle Bauer firing Berry, & hiring Mike Kelly set the Bombers back. What, almost half a decade??? Unbelievably stupid. As far as I am concerned Lyle Bauer is totally to to blame for everything that is wrong with the team now.

Fired Ritchie then hired Daley... Fired Berry to hire Kelly... yeah Bauer had this thing about firing good coaches and replacing them with losers. 

[Mr. Perfect]

Lyle Bauer was great at generating money for the club, however his interference in the on field operations were devastating. His personal vendetta against Dave Ritchie, adding Jim Daley to the coaching staff, so he knew the second Ritchie stumbled he would fire him. The Berry/Kelly fiasco, how things went down with Taman and how he kept the purse strings so low that it gave us practically no chance to win, then the optics when he left the team after the mess he left it in....Bauer is a goof!

[TBURGESS]

but it was firing Berry that led to Kelly and that set the team back at least 3 years. Firing Ritchie and going to Daley set the team back... that's the main point here. You may think the next guy can't be worse... but he might be. He might do long term damage to the team, like Kelly did. If nothing else, Mack is not doing long term harm to the team and is steadily improving the depth in the organization. Even if he doesn't put them over the top we aren't hurting anything keeping him around and when they decide to move on at least he's left a solid foundation for the next person to build on. That's why I advocate patience in the situation we are in right now. 

You're talking about the ONLY time in 20 years that we shouldn't have fired a coach.  (Ritchie is a maybe IMHO)  

 

Of course the next guy could be worse.  We hire worse all the time.  It's about the folks we hire.  Last 4 HC's had no HC experience. (Burke, PLAP, Kelly, Berry).  The last 3 GM's didn't have GM experience (Mack, Kelly, Taman).  When we hire experienced coaches like Burke as a DC, we end up with good to great units.  

 

Doing no harm?  Hardly a reason to keep a guy around and I'd say your wrong.  He is doing harm.  As an example, keeping Buck and both Elliott and Brink.  As another example, our record over the last 3+ years.

[TBURGESS]

despite there being a ton of evidence throughout the CFL that says otherwise?

You mean like the difference in wins that Burris, a top notch QB brought to Hamilton last year?

[17to85]

You mean like the difference in wins that Burris, a top notch QB brought to Hamilton last year?

no I mean like the complete 180 for Toronto simply by adding Ricky Ray. (also of note how far Edmonton fell without Ray) 

[iso_55]

Lyle Bauer was great at generating money for the club, however his interference in the on field operations were devastating. His personal vendetta against Dave Ritchie, adding Jim Daley to the coaching staff, so he knew the second Ritchie stumbled he would fire him. The Berry/Kelly fiasco, how things went down with Taman and how he kept the purse strings so low that it gave us practically no chance to win, then the optics when he left the team after the mess he left it in....Bauer is a goof!

 

Lyle Bauer was great at generating money for the club, however his interference in the on field operations were devastating. His personal vendetta against Dave Ritchie, adding Jim Daley to the coaching staff, so he knew the second Ritchie stumbled he would fire him. The Berry/Kelly fiasco, how things went down with Taman and how he kept the purse strings so low that it gave us practically no chance to win, then the optics when he left the team after the mess he left it in....Bauer is a goof!

Absolutely right....

[do or die]

At what point do we forget about calling the team "immature".....and simply call it "badly coached"?

[iso_55]

At what point do we forget about calling the team "immature".....and simply call it "badly coached"?

Right now, I'd think.

[do or die]

Right now, I'd think.

Yup.... I have been ragging overtime, on our offensive coaching.....but at this stage...cannot see any aspect of this club, that looks well coached...period.

[iso_55]

I am just sick & tired of the bullshit & the fact nothing ever changes with this team. I/m angry that a fanbase like ours has to put up with this garbage year after year. I want change yeah, damned right. Big changes, but I/m being totallly irrational & emotional right now.... Arrrgh. TOUGH TO TAKE!!!