iso_55 Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 Do you keep a coach for the sake of consistency even if it's clear he can't ever produce a winner? Can the Bombers afford to just stand pat? I say no. If it's clear he is the wrong choice then the guy who hired him has to answer for his actions & the coach has to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 I have a feeling if we had Lulay or Durant as our QB no one would be crying about our situation either. It's amazing what a difference a QB makes. Hello, Mr Mack??? Hello.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Dee Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 Obviously a defensively minded head coach can work if you have a strong OC, No one is calling for Chamberlins or Benvedies (sp) head right now or saying they shouldn't have been hired. Yes, true, and a competent QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
do or die Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Still a quarterback driven league. We invested a couple years of development on Brink and Elliott.....and cut them both. We went boldly forward..... with our chronically injured veteran option "gives us the best chance" in Pierce..... in a offence "tailored" for him by Crowton (no, I am not making this up) Goltz better be the deal.....or this QB thing, will simply cost a lot of people their jobs, moving forward.....sooner, than later. MOBomberFan and rebusrankin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBURGESS Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 I don't get the resistance to change. If we were winning, then the status quo is obviously the right choice, but we are losing and have been for a long time. We can and should fire and rehire until we find a winning combination. What we shouldn't do is hand out extensions until we know we are heading in the right direction. That's our bigger problem. Folks who like Mack think we should fire Burke or Crowton or all the coaches or pretty much anyone but Mack. Folks who like Burke think we should fire Mack or Crowton or pretty much anyone but Burke. Most bad decisions, like keeping Buck and getting rid of Elliott, are attributed to the guy who each poster doesn't like. For some it's Mack's decision. For others it's Burke's decision. In truth, it's both together. The common idea lately is 'We are just a QB short of being a good team'. It's a great theory if you're a Mack, Burke or Crowton fan, because it shifts blame to something that's not fixable in the short term. Good QB's take a few years to mature and throwing away the experienced backups puts us into 2014-2015 territory. Just be patient folks tell me because once we get that QB we will be a good team for years to come. I wish I could believe that it's true because it would be comforting to think that the rest of the decisions our team has made are right, but I just can't believe it. Our OC has produced a poor offense for more than a year and that's not just on our QB situation. Our O line is below average. Our receivers as a group, even when healthy and they aren't all healthy at the same time very often, are middle of the road. Our RB's are too. That's a lot more problems on offense than just our QB. I know a top notch QB would make our offense look better, but he would still be running the same lame offense with the same average players. Other than a spectacular 8 game stretch two years ago, we have been a lousy football team since Mack took over. That's not good enough IMHO to ask for more patience or protect the jobs of those who are responsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 I don't get the resistance to change. If we were winning, then the status quo is obviously the right choice, but we are losing and have been for a long time. We can and should fire and rehire until we find a winning combination. What we shouldn't do is hand out extensions until we know we are heading in the right direction. That's our bigger problem. Folks who like Mack think we should fire Burke or Crowton or all the coaches or pretty much anyone but Mack. Folks who like Burke think we should fire Mack or Crowton or pretty much anyone but Burke. Most bad decisions, like keeping Buck and getting rid of Elliott, are attributed to the guy who each poster doesn't like. For some it's Mack's decision. For others it's Burke's decision. In truth, it's both together. The common idea lately is 'We are just a QB short of being a good team'. It's a great theory if you're a Mack, Burke or Crowton fan, because it shifts blame to something that's not fixable in the short term. Good QB's take a few years to mature and throwing away the experienced backups puts us into 2014-2015 territory. Just be patient folks tell me because once we get that QB we will be a good team for years to come. I wish I could believe that it's true because it would be comforting to think that the rest of the decisions our team has made are right, but I just can't believe it. Our OC has produced a poor offense for more than a year and that's not just on our QB situation. Our O line is below average. Our receivers as a group, even when healthy and they aren't all healthy at the same time very often, are middle of the road. Our RB's are too. That's a lot more problems on offense than just our QB. I know a top notch QB would make our offense look better, but he would still be running the same lame offense with the same average players. Other than a spectacular 8 game stretch two years ago, we have been a lousy football team since Mack took over. That's not good enough IMHO to ask for more patience or protect the jobs of those who are responsible. If you assume this, why do you not assume that a bottom rung QB makes our offense look worse than it actually is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 We can and should fire and rehire until we find a winning combination. and how's that worked out for the past 20 years? Haven't developed a qb in that time, haven't had organizational depth in that time... and the biggest reason for that is that coaches and GMs are fired at the slightest slip up and then we're back to starting from square one. A little patience would go a LONG way to solving those problems. Everyone bitched about them at the time, but wouldn't Doug Berry and Kevin Glenn look better than what we have now? But we don't have them because of the attitude that you are expressing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 If you assume this, why do you not assume that a bottom rung QB makes our offense look worse than it actually is? because that doesn't fit his flawed line of thinking. SPuDS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 I'm with TBurg on this. You don't hang onto people you can't win with. Mack's had 3 full seasons. He's hired 2 head coaches & this team is adrift. Rudderless. Going nowhere. I think the jury is still out on Burke. We'll know by seasons end with the guy but because of Mack, if he isn't the guy as HC then if we fire him, we still owe him 2 more years so he can put his feet up & get paid to do nothing. This team is a mess right now & to me this all on Joe Mack if it fails. If it continues, then status quo for the sake of consistency is wrong as well. Lotta "ifs" in there because it's still early in the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Mack will be gone before his contract is up (next year). But the pain of his tenure will linger after with his hiring of Burke for 3 seasons, his O-Line that is no better no than it has been (Shannon Boatman is just embarrassing... and he's an import...don't get me started on Morley) and of course his instability under centre and lack of support for same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Firing Mack mid-season would be senseless. He gets the rest of the year to turn it around. Playoffs, he keeps his job. Miss the playoffs, loses his job. That simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Firing Mack mid-season would be senseless. He gets the rest of the year to turn it around. Playoffs, he keeps his job. Miss the playoffs, loses his job. That simple. then again... someone has to get to work on extentions (JE, Muamba) and audit the roster before the offseason... do you really want it to be the guy you're going to tie the can to? if you're going to gun someone, you do it at or around labour day so whoever is put in charge (be he a "caretaker" or permanent) can make certain your key assets are in place for next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelownabomberfan Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 I'm with TBurg on this. Unless you are drunk, you really need to re-consider starting off posts with this statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 then again... someone has to get to work on extentions (JE, Muamba) and audit the roster before the offseason... do you really want it to be the guy you're going to tie the can to? if you're going to gun someone, you do it at or around labour day so whoever is put in charge (be he a "caretaker" or permanent) can make certain your key assets are in place for next season. You're not finding a replacement GM mid-season so I don't see what difference it makes. If Mack gets fired, it will be Walters or Buchko taking care of that stuff for the balance of the season and neither one will be our GM next season. Pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 You're not finding a replacement GM mid-season so I don't see what difference it makes. If Mack gets fired, it will be Walters or Buchko taking care of that stuff for the balance of the season and neither one will be our GM next season. Pointless. precisely why Mack didn't want Forde. regardless... if somehow JE or Muamba (or another key asset's) deals don't happen and Mack is chopped (either early or after the season) the blame game will reach heretofor unheard of volume on the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Mack will be gone before his contract is up (next year). But the pain of his tenure will linger after with his hiring of Burke for 3 seasons, his O-Line that is no better no than it has been (Shannon Boatman is just embarrassing... and he's an import...don't get me started on Morley) and of course his instability under centre and lack of support for same. there is an interesting thing going on in Winnipeg. The defense is all about getting younger and faster and replacing veterans who can't do the job... on offense it's the opposite. Veterans are given no end of slack and will not be replaced no matter how poorly they played... this is causing Morley to keep getting chances despite being terrible and hearing for a long time now how Swiston is basically just as good and pushing him all the time... so why isn't the same standard held for offense and defense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 there is an interesting thing going on in Winnipeg. The defense is all about getting younger and faster and replacing veterans who can't do the job... on offense it's the opposite. Veterans are given no end of slack and will not be replaced no matter how poorly they played... this is causing Morley to keep getting chances despite being terrible and hearing for a long time now how Swiston is basically just as good and pushing him all the time... so why isn't the same standard held for offense and defense? The answer is pretty simple. Our head coach has no idea what the hell is going on on one side of the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dascow Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 then again... someone has to get to work on extentions (JE, Muamba) and audit the roster before the offseason... do you really want it to be the guy you're going to tie the can to? if you're going to gun someone, you do it at or around labour day so whoever is put in charge (be he a "caretaker" or permanent) can make certain your key assets are in place for next season. If the Bombers make the play-offs then he will not be let go. Good organizations don't fire their coach or GM mid stream for that reason. Absolutely nothing will be gained by getting rid of him half way through. I don't care what the Bomber's record is. Don't fire the coach or the GM until the season ends and there are suitable replacements. To do anything else would be foolhardy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 precisely why Mack didn't want Forde. oh yeah cause a guy whose only qualifications are that he does TSNs draft coverage is a sure bet to take over as a GM. Come on give me a break here. Forde won't be the next GM anywhere in the CFL because he hasn't done a damned thing to earn that job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dascow Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 The answer is pretty simple. Our head coach has no idea what the hell is going on on one side of the ball. And possibly the O-Co as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 oh yeah cause a guy whose only qualifications are that he does TSNs draft coverage is a sure bet to take over as a GM. Come on give me a break here. Forde won't be the next GM anywhere in the CFL because he hasn't done a damned thing to earn that job. I think the interesting thing to mention here, even though it keeps being ignored for the sake of pimping Duane Forde's name ... ... nobody else seems to want him either. SPuDS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 The answer is pretty simple. Our head coach has no idea what the hell is going on on one side of the ball. then why isn't our offensive coordinator saying that those changes should be happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 then why isn't our offensive coordinator saying that those changes should be happening? Leads me to two more questions. Is he? Can he? I'd honestly love to know what Crowton's opinion of Buck Pierce is, because Crowton essentially handpicked Max Hall and Buck Pierce is about as far away stylistically from Max Hall as you can get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraser Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 oh yeah cause a guy whose only qualifications are that he does TSNs draft coverage is a sure bet to take over as a GM. Come on give me a break here. Forde won't be the next GM anywhere in the CFL because he hasn't done a damned thing to earn that job. It’s kind of funny how the guys paid to assess the coaches and GM's are washouts or never were's. Ford's draft board is pretty bad. Dunnigan can run down a coaching decision but was a pretty big failure as a coach. Lapo is analyzing coaches and GM's and his first attempt as a HC was very unsuccessful. Hate to say it but Climie seems like a smart guy so who knows what he could accomplish but I can't even see shultz as a positional coach let alone a HC or GM. The CFL Media isn't exactly full of Madden's or Ditka’s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dascow Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Leads me to two more questions. Is he? Can he? I'd honestly love to know what Crowton's opinion of Buck Pierce is, because Crowton essentially handpicked Max Hall and Buck Pierce is about as far away stylistically from Max Hall as you can get So if he isn't or he can't, who is? If it's not Burke or Crowton, then are you saying it's Mack's call? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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