Bombers @ Birds: ESF GDT

[17to85]

24 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Tui was beyond useless when he played

When has he played centre? Also, Kolankowski is beyond useless too...

[Goalie]

5 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Do you really feel like he's a worse player than Jake Thomas? Because we didn't need Thomas as a Canadian on the roster... this is the whole same argument! You just take it on faith that the coaches are making the best roster decisions they can which can be very easily shown to not always be the case. 

It doesn’t matter what I think. I’m not the one making the decisions and won’t be ever. It matters what they think and he’s on the PR. Adams is American tho and Jake is Canadian so the comparison don’t work. 

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

When has he played centre? Also, Kolankowski is beyond useless too...

Just cuz one guy sucks doesn’t mean the guy behind him is a stud. 

[17to85]

12 minutes ago, Goalie said:

It doesn’t matter what I think. I’m not the one making the decisions and won’t be ever. It matters what they think and he’s on the PR. Adams is American tho and Jake is Canadian so the comparison don’t work. 

Just cuz one guy sucks doesn’t mean the guy behind him is a stud. 

So instead of trying him, or someone else we just stick with the suck? 

Also we didn't need Jake as a Canadian for the ratio so it is absolutely a valid comparison. 

[Goalie]

31 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

So instead of trying him, or someone else we just stick with the suck? 

Also we didn't need Jake as a Canadian for the ratio so it is absolutely a valid comparison. 

It’s not tho cuz you don’t make those decisions plus the problem isn’t Jake on D. Last night our DBs got owned and our lbs couldn’t tackle. Our DL did nothing all year outside of a nothing game last week. So no Adams doesn’t make a lick of a difference, if he was this stud like ppl pretend he’d be starting not on the PR. Not about to be a free agent. Out the league. Could have been swooped the last 5 weeks but nope. The fringe player didn’t cost us any games. Our “stars” did. Brady put the ball on the ground. Willie being paid more than Jake ,did the same as Jake. I mean, I get it, I want the DL to be more impactful and aggressive also but it’s JY not RH. JYs D don’t really do that. But when you get down to it, Jake isn’t good but he tries every play. He tries his hardest. That’s more than you can say for Willie and a few others who constantly take plays off. 

Edited 21 hours ago by Goalie

[wbbfan]

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

When has he played centre? Also, Kolankowski is beyond useless too...

only his first year, he played a few games while couture was out. 

Eli hasn’t been useless, he’s been so so as a guard when pressed into limited used, though he was good last night. He has been excellent as the 6th ol in heavy sets 

[Goalie]

People can **** on Jake but the problems on D aren’t on Jake. Jake’s skill level isn’t there but the guy busts his fat ass every play, he doesn’t win his battle often but he tries his hardest. Then you got a guy like Willie. A guy who takes several plays a game off, every game. I’m not sure what the bigger problem in the room would be. Dude trying every play or dude taking plays off every other play. Willie goes for knockdowns. You know how ridiculous that is that they allow this? How sad that is that they can’t get consistent effort from him but are seemingly ok with it ? Then ppl ***** about Jake cuz I dunno , cuz ppl rather a team of guys who only try sometimes. Willie is a guy im letting go. His attitude and work ethic are toxic to young players. Has to be. Jake is gone also tho. But not related at all. Jake is gone cuz skill don’t match the heart. Willie gone cuz heart don’t match the skill. There’s a few players on the team who fall in that heart don’t match the skill category. Sounds crazy but I’ll take a Jake who tries over a Willie who don’t. But it’s probably time to change the culture a bit more. Skill needs to match heart and heart needs to match skill. Give me a team of guys who gives a **** and play to the whistle.  

Edited 21 hours ago by Goalie

[HardCoreBlue]

1 hour ago, Goalie said:

People can **** on Jake but the problems on D aren’t on Jake. Jake’s skill level isn’t there but the guy busts his fat ass every play, he doesn’t win his battle often but he tries his hardest. Then you got a guy like Willie. A guy who takes several plays a game off, every game. I’m not sure what the bigger problem in the room would be. Dude trying every play or dude taking plays off every other play. Willie goes for knockdowns. You know how ridiculous that is that they allow this? How sad that is that they can’t get consistent effort from him but are seemingly ok with it ? Then ppl ***** about Jake cuz I dunno , cuz ppl rather a team of guys who only try sometimes. Willie is a guy im letting go. His attitude and work ethic are toxic to young players. Has to be. Jake is gone also tho. But not related at all. Jake is gone cuz skill don’t match the heart. Willie gone cuz heart don’t match the skill. There’s a few players on the team who fall in that heart don’t match the skill category. Sounds crazy but I’ll take a Jake who tries over a Willie who don’t. But it’s probably time to change the culture a bit more. Skill needs to match heart and heart needs to match skill. Give me a team of guys who gives a **** and play to the whistle.  

Bust his ass still resulted in being manhandled on practically every play. Busting one’s ass means nothing if it doesn’t produce anything which is true for any job. And this isn’t an either/or, it’s both, as in both need to go.

[rebusrankin]

Jake getting contributing 9 tackles in 18 games despite playing a large percentage of snaps isn't an issue? Disagree.

I agree that Willie also doesn't contribute enough for the paycheck he's getting.

On the D, I get that JY's scheme is different but is it one that is going to work?

[17to85]

1 hour ago, Goalie said:

People can **** on Jake but the problems on D aren’t on Jake. Jake’s skill level isn’t there but the guy busts his fat ass every play, he doesn’t win his battle often but he tries his hardest. Then you got a guy like Willie. A guy who takes several plays a game off, every game. I’m not sure what the bigger problem in the room would be. Dude trying every play or dude taking plays off every other play. Willie goes for knockdowns. You know how ridiculous that is that they allow this? How sad that is that they can’t get consistent effort from him but are seemingly ok with it ? Then ppl ***** about Jake cuz I dunno , cuz ppl rather a team of guys who only try sometimes. Willie is a guy im letting go. His attitude and work ethic are toxic to young players. Has to be. Jake is gone also tho. But not related at all. Jake is gone cuz skill don’t match the heart. Willie gone cuz heart don’t match the skill. There’s a few players on the team who fall in that heart don’t match the skill category. Sounds crazy but I’ll take a Jake who tries over a Willie who don’t. But it’s probably time to change the culture a bit more. Skill needs to match heart and heart needs to match skill. Give me a team of guys who gives a **** and play to the whistle.  

I could go out there and try my hardest, does that mean I should have a spot? Thomas plays nearly every god damned snap and even at his peak he was just a depth guy. Huge problem. Willie is problem too because he doesn't put in the effort. They both need to be gone next year IMO. 

[wbbfan]

34 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Bust his ass still resulted in being manhandled on practically every play. Busting one’s ass means nothing if it doesn’t produce anything which is true for any job. And this isn’t an either/or, it’s both, as in both need to go.

on on doug was laughing at thomas on a play where he was in a 2 point stance, barely got out of his stance by the time the ball got out and still got turned and tossed on his butt. 

32 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

Jake getting contributing 9 tackles in 18 games despite playing a large percentage of snaps isn't an issue? Disagree.

I agree that Willie also doesn't contribute enough for the paycheck he's getting.

On the D, I get that JY's scheme is different but is it one that is going to work?

his scheme carried us from bottom of the standings to a home play off game last year. 

He’s shown some great ability to draw up plays that get pressure out of blitzes, but you just can’t blitz your way to victory in the cfl. you need to be able to disrupt the passing game with 4-5. I want to see what he can do with a good dl

[Goalie]

Sad. Zachs interview today. Delusional 

the guys he mentioned who he wants back are all guys who are finished. 

Edited 19 hours ago by Goalie

[JuranBoldenRules]

6 hours ago, Tracker said:

We had one a highly rated college center (Tui Eli) sitting on the bench while Kolankowski fell down a lot, we drafted a highly rated Canadian MLB and another (J.Jones) sit while T. Jones struggled on pass coverage a lot, and we had Echols and Cobb Sit while Mitchell and Corcoran wandered around, we had Jake Thomas waddle onto the field when the ratio allowed an import to replace him, and Cam Allen was sidelined too long. The D-line that we had second last game and was effective was gutted in the ESF. Maybe none of these changes would have saved the season, but O'Shea's stubbornness is more than evident.

The highly rated college thing is kind of joke.  He was on a watchlist for an award for centres that like 50 guys were on.  There's only 300 NCAA teams.  Coaches send in noms.  1 in 6 guys who started at centre in FBS that season were on that list.  9/10 of them never played pro football.

5 hours ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

“It speaks volumes for our organization in that we’re making sure all 21 Canadians on the dress roster, the guys on the practice roster, they’ve beaten out some very good football players. Just because you were here last year in that role… you’re going to be pushed this year. That’s a good feeling for our roster for sure.”

- Kyle Walters, 2017

 

Does that sound like how things have been run recently?

No but mostly because there's no one in camp pushing.  Again...who is being blocked here?  All the guys who can play got on to roster and a lot of them took big roles as the season went on.  The talent level in our training camps has been an absolute joke.  Receiver and DL are real flash points IMO.

Charles Roberts didn't start a game at tailback until the East Final of his rookie year.  Arguably the best tailback in Bomber history.  Eric Blount and Troy Mills blocked him I guess.  People want to dress a team full of rookies and expect to win?  No mostly people get disappointed when they actually see the guys they are hyping.  Few live up to it.

[Childress]

1 hour ago, Goalie said:

Sad. Zachs interview today. Delusional 

the guys he mentioned who he wants back are all guys who are finished. 

This is what he said so others don't have to look it up:

Quote

“I want to continue to do it, but I want to play good football and I want the guys who have been here — Jake Thomas, Pat Neufeld, Stanley Bryant, Shayne Gauthier — those guys who have been here for the run, I’d like for them to be here to do it because I think we can continue to do it.

The article also said:

Quote

 

His frustration dates back to training camp when his reps were cut as the club understandably worked to get Chris Streveler ready for the season opener with Collaros serving a one-game suspension. He also said the club repped a lot of things in camp they never got to during the season and that the team struggled to “figure out what you’re good at and grow in that.”

Collaros suggested the passing attack had shown signs of being in decline even before this year and when asked what needs to change, offered this:

“That’s more of a discussion for when the dust settles and we find out what’s going to happen moving forward and all those things. I think we have the players in place, we have guys who can play.”

 

and Collaros also said:

Quote

“The consistency certainly wasn’t there and that can’t be pointed in one direction, though,” Collaros said. “Obviously, Jason’s (offensive coordinator Jason Hogan) been coaching for a long time and he got the opportunity to be an offensive coordinator this year. There’s a learning curve with everything, whether it’s playing the game, coaching the game — all those things. There’s always a learning curve with calling plays, organizing, all that stuff. It’s hard for me to really comment on it because I’ve never had to do it.

Sounds like Collaros believes the Bombers has a sub-standard offensive coordinator.

I think he fails to recognize the old boys he names, and you could include Collaros in that group, are simply not as good as they were 5 years ago and the Bombers haven't brought in new guys to be the stars while these guys age out.

[17to85]

1 hour ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Charles Roberts didn't start a game at tailback until the East Final of his rookie year.  Arguably the best tailback in Bomber history.  Eric Blount and Troy Mills blocked him I guess. 

Very interesting comparison.... Dave Ritchie was notorious for sticking with his good old boys at all costs and Charles Roberts had to basically walk away from the team for them to give him the chance... and as you said, he became one of the teams all time best.

 

[Goalie]

Woodbey. Vaval. Am I missing anyone? Cuz that’s it for guys from this camp who made an impact. 2 guys. Pretty brutal. Surely I’m missing someone but I’m not am I? Maybe you can say vanterpool also. So 3 guys. That’s not very good. Scouting is a problem. Yes got potential for an end and D tackle but 3 guys stepping up isn’t lots. 

[SpeedFlex27]

13 hours ago, Goalie said:

People can **** on Jake but the problems on D aren’t on Jake. Jake’s skill level isn’t there but the guy busts his fat ass every play, he doesn’t win his battle often but he tries his hardest. Then you got a guy like Willie. A guy who takes several plays a game off, every game. I’m not sure what the bigger problem in the room would be. Dude trying every play or dude taking plays off every other play. Willie goes for knockdowns. You know how ridiculous that is that they allow this? How sad that is that they can’t get consistent effort from him but are seemingly ok with it ? Then ppl ***** about Jake cuz I dunno , cuz ppl rather a team of guys who only try sometimes. Willie is a guy im letting go. His attitude and work ethic are toxic to young players. Has to be. Jake is gone also tho. But not related at all. Jake is gone cuz skill don’t match the heart. Willie gone cuz heart don’t match the skill. There’s a few players on the team who fall in that heart don’t match the skill category. Sounds crazy but I’ll take a Jake who tries over a Willie who don’t. But it’s probably time to change the culture a bit more. Skill needs to match heart and heart needs to match skill. Give me a team of guys who gives a **** and play to the whistle.  

How can you say Thomas os not the problem but the Defensive Line sucks? Thomas plays on the DL in a 3 man front & gets destroyed. Playng his ass off means nothing if he loses on most plays.

You think getting blown out doesn't affect the play of that line, think again. We have a DC who dresses ten linebackers & then plays a 3 man front. There is no pressure. QBs can just sit there & pick their targets. Give the secondary some credit as I think they have played well. What a goofy base defense. Jordan Younge must love Cheetos. 

[bigg jay]

5 hours ago, Goalie said:

Woodbey. Vaval. Am I missing anyone? Cuz that’s it for guys from this camp who made an impact. 2 guys. Pretty brutal. Surely I’m missing someone but I’m not am I? Maybe you can say vanterpool also. So 3 guys. That’s not very good. Scouting is a problem. Yes got potential for an end and D tackle but 3 guys stepping up isn’t lots. 

Cam Allen as well.  Not sure how many rookies you expect to make an impact, especially when the HC prefers to run with a veteran group (despite subpar play from some of them).

[Booch]

16 hours ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Bust his ass still resulted in being manhandled on practically every play. Busting one’s ass means nothing if it doesn’t produce anything which is true for any job. And this isn’t an either/or, it’s both, as in both need to go.

you can bust your ass all you want but when it amounts to nothing...who cares...I could go out and bust my ass too (I'd prob be more successful too than him truth be told) but you dont see me on any roster no more

Jake's prence just takes another player off the roster who could make an impact....and then makes the job of his dline mates tougher as they can be schemed against more....football is a game where one putz can affect the whole system....and when you have multiple on both sides of the ball...well......