Ottawa RedBlacks @ Winnipeg Blue Bombers GDT

[SpeedFlex27]

16 hours ago, Booch said:

yeah....but we also ended up losing for the same issues that the lil run just masked....and we right back in the same situation...except this time even less depth and talent

You can't compare this year's team with last year. Last year, we had a run & passing game as well as a secondary that made plays. This year, all our dbs do is frantically chase the receivers that beat their pants off. 

[Booch]

11 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

You can't compare this year's team with last year. Last year, we had a run & passing game as well as a secondary that made plays. This year, all our dbs do is frantically chase the receivers that beat their pants off. 

hence the less depth and talent part

Add in an OC who pales in comparison to Buck in a huge way....we just handicapping ourselfs even more

[Slimy Sculpin]

12 minutes ago, Booch said:

hence the less depth and talent part

Add in an OC who pales in comparison to Buck in a huge way....we just handicapping ourselfs even more

Have to agree about our OC. His play calling has me yearning for Buck.😔

[Tracker]

12 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

You can't compare this year's team with last year. Last year, we had a run & passing game as well as a secondary that made plays. This year, all our dbs do is frantically chase the receivers that beat their pants off. 

If that was literally true, that would result in a lot more female viewers.

[GCn20]

16 hours ago, Tracker said:

On a rare positive note: we now seem to have a solid safety and Tony Jones had his best game as a Bomber- he seems to be getting better.

Tony Jones has been solid all year.

[SpeedFlex27]

9 hours ago, Tracker said:

If that was literally true, that would result in a lot more female viewers.

If only it was that funny. 

[SpeedFlex27]

10 hours ago, Booch said:

hence the less depth and talent part

Add in an OC who pales in comparison to Buck in a huge way....we just handicapping ourselfs even more

The one thing this team can't do is make major chamges because of the stubborness of their head coach. He'll die with Hogan before he ever makes a change to Jackson. It just won't happen. In all the years he has been here, have we ever heard Osh say he made a mistake? As in, his decision to attempt a 58 yard FG instead of punting the ball deep & pinning the RedBlacks. 

[Booch]

13 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

The one thing this team can't do is make major chamges because of the stubborness of their head coach. He'll die with Hogan before he ever makes a change to Jackson. It just won't happen. In all the years he has been here, have we ever heard Osh say he made a mistake? As in, his decision to attempt a 58 yard FG instead of punting the ball deep & pinning the RedBlacks. 

Yup...everything he has done is the right call...do it again...he just can't admit failure or he screewdd up...same with roster...if it isnt injury dictated he won't change a thing as it shows he screwed up in player choice

The Bridges release was an utter shock...almost think it was Walter's maybe who said enough is enough...cause there is still a few guys who if not cut or PR'd shouldn't be playing....at the least starting or getting premium reps

[DTonOB]

On 2025-08-15 at 5:23 PM, johnzo said:

Holy cow, that sounds like an incredible amount of work.  Super curious about the tools and data sources you use -- do you have your own play-by-play database?

I do have my own database. It's the CFL's play by play and then my charting going back to 2015. I used to have access to the CFL's play-by-play database. It was gone after the switch to Genius, and I'm working at learning how to access their stuff.

In the meantime I rip each game's play by play PDF into various Excel files. From there I work on charting, field goals, punting, 2nd/3rd downs, run game, expected vaule of field position...a whole bunch of things that I think have value for future discussions.

Edited Sunday at 08:34 PM by DTonOB

[Mark H.]

2 hours ago, DTonOB said:

I do have my own database. It's the CFL's play by play and then my charting going back to 2015. I used to have access to the CFL's play-by-play database. It was gone after the switch to Genius, and I'm working at learning how to access their stuff.

In the meantime I rip each game's play by play PDF into various Excel files. From there I work on charting, field goals, punting, 2nd/3rd downs, run game, expected vaule of field position...a whole bunch of things that I think have value for future discussions.

Or, you can add them to the broadcast, using your best baseball broadcaster voice.

"Collaros is 75% completion rate outside the pocket, 62% when he's throwing from the pocket."

[SpeedFlex27]

9 hours ago, DTonOB said:

I do have my own database. It's the CFL's play by play and then my charting going back to 2015. I used to have access to the CFL's play-by-play database. It was gone after the switch to Genius, and I'm working at learning how to access their stuff.

In the meantime I rip each game's play by play PDF into various Excel files. From there I work on charting, field goals, punting, 2nd/3rd downs, run game, expected vaule of field position...a whole bunch of things that I think have value for future discussions.

Bravo, DT. Bravo... Very well done.

[GCn20]

On 2025-08-17 at 11:26 AM, Booch said:

Yup...everything he has done is the right call...do it again...he just can't admit failure or he screewdd up...same with roster...if it isnt injury dictated he won't change a thing as it shows he screwed up in player choice

The Bridges release was an utter shock...almost think it was Walter's maybe who said enough is enough...cause there is still a few guys who if not cut or PR'd shouldn't be playing....at the least starting or getting premium reps

That's nonsense. It was the coaches who sat him out prior to his release. It was the coaches that forced him to the PR. At least give credit where credit is due instead of coming out with some narrative to explain away one of there better moves. You are showing your bias.

Edited 3 hours ago by GCn20

[17to85]

41 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

That's nonsense. It was the coaches who sat him out prior to his release. It was the coaches that forced him to the PR. At least give credit where credit is due instead of coming out with some narrative to explain away one of there better moves. You are showing your bias.

Guy had 1/3 of a season to prove what everyone else already knew, that he wasn't good enough, before he was demoted and released... let's not pretend it reflects on the coaches in some positive light here.

[GCn20]

15 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Guy had 1/3 of a season to prove what everyone else already knew, that he wasn't good enough, before he was demoted and released... let's not pretend it reflects on the coaches in some positive light here.

The guy was benched and then released. PERIOD. To say that it was Walters that made that decision is nonsense.

[Booch]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

That's nonsense. It was the coaches who sat him out prior to his release. It was the coaches that forced him to the PR. At least give credit where credit is due instead of coming out with some narrative to explain away one of there better moves. You are showing your bias.

well if it was all you say....took friggin long enough...so who knows.....and a call doen to the sideline could have happened...and yes...it does...seen it first hand

None the less....I have minimal faith in the staff to consistently do right thing or make right decisions until proven otherwise....and thats based on what we have all seen....putrid coaching in a lot of areas...instances....

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

Guy had 1/3 of a season to prove what everyone else already knew, that he wasn't good enough, before he was demoted and released... let's not pretend it reflects on the coaches in some positive light here.

exactly...if it took dear leader that long to see it....then yeah he isnt the best and actually seeing what the issue is....after game 4 he should have been parked....not game 8

[GCn20]

5 minutes ago, Booch said:

well if it was all you say....took friggin long enough...so who knows.....and a call doen to the sideline could have happened...and yes...it does...seen it first hand

None the less....I have minimal faith in the staff to consistently do right thing or make right decisions until proven otherwise....and thats based on what we have all seen....putrid coaching in a lot of areas...instances....

exactly...if it took dear leader that long to see it....then yeah he isnt the best and actually seeing what the issue is....after game 4 he should have been parked....not game 8

I'm not going to argue that he should have been sat earlier, or that our coaching could use improvement, but a call down to the sideline? Nope not buying it for one second. I'm not going to let Walters off the hook just as you won't let Osh off the hook. IMO, Walters is the worst of the underperformers. Guy has had a terrible last 2 seasons in the job.

Edited 1 hour ago by GCn20

[Booch]

45 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I'm not going to argue that he should have been sat earlier, or that our coaching could use improvement, but a call down to the sideline? Nope not buying it for one second. I'm not going to let Walters off the hook just as you won't let Osh off the hook. IMO, Walters is the worst of the underperformers. Guy has had a terrible last 2 seasons in the job.

nobody is off the hook...been a major crap show since January...no foresight....real plan...no forward thinking....zero succession in place for most part anywhere...lot of hopium tho

Walter's tho is the guy with say in  releasing him...who knows if Osh fought it and still wanted him around or not...I tend to think he probably did based on Osh history with players and his reluctance to even bench a guy....let alone admit as soon as it apparent a guy is not good enough.

Doesn't want to appear as if he wrong or made a mistake....and will keep pounding square pegs into round holes over and over and over....history shows us this

Is it an ego thing?...who knows....but it's a serious flaw

None the less....the success and the flops and shitshow stuff is a collective of Walters and his team....and Osh and his....and of late...been more flopping and shittin round here....have they ran their course...an epic failure this yr to me says yes and change in order....this cant continue and be allowed to fester

[GCn20]

12 minutes ago, Booch said:

nobody is off the hook...been a major crap show since January...no foresight....real plan...no forward thinking....zero succession in place for most part anywhere...lot of hopium tho

Walter's tho is the guy with say in  releasing him...who knows if Osh fought it and still wanted him around or not...I tend to think he probably did based on Osh history with players and his reluctance to even bench a guy....let alone admit as soon as it apparent a guy is not good enough.

Doesn't want to appear as if he wrong or made a mistake....and will keep pounding square pegs into round holes over and over and over....history shows us this

Is it an ego thing?...who knows....but it's a serious flaw

None the less....the success and the flops and shitshow stuff is a collective of Walters and his team....and Osh and his....and of late...been more flopping and shittin round here....have they ran their course...an epic failure this yr to me says yes and change in order....this cant continue and be allowed to fester

I can agree that it's not one or the other, both management and coaching staff are not performing well. My point is that at the end of the day, talent level is a GMs job not a HCs. How that talent performs on the field is coaching. We have a talent defiiciency for sure, and the talent we do have is not performing up to snuff...or at least to the level we now demand as an organization. Top teams stay top teams by demanding excellence and we are not getting it from Walters on down to the players on the PR.

[johnzo]

On 2025-08-16 at 9:08 AM, Booch said:

Add in an OC who pales in comparison to Buck in a huge way....we just handicapping ourselfs even more

has there ever been a Bomber OC that MBB liked?  Looking at the recent OCs...

Marcel Bellefeuille -- emergency scrap heap guy, only competent option at the time, somehow hung on way too long

Lapo -- too cerebral, no killer instinct, bad playcaller.  QBs check down too often.

Buck -- ruined Streveler, predictable playcaller.  QBs go deep too often.

Hogan -- worse than Buck.  offence starts hot and ends cold.  can't make adjustments.  seen wearing backwards hat and sunglasses.

seriously, I don't think I can recall an OC who was good enough for this board.

Edited 10 minutes ago by johnzo

[GCn20]

1 minute ago, johnzo said:

has there ever been a Bomber OC that MBB liked?  Looking at the recent OCs...

Marcel Bellefeuille -- emergency scrap heap guy, best of many bad options at the time who  somehow hung on too long

Lapo -- too cerebral, no killer instinct, bad playcaller

Buck -- ruined Streveler, predictable playcaller.

Hogan -- worse than Buck.  seen wearing backwards hat and sunglasses.

seriously, I don't think I can recall an OC who was good enough for this board.

Yea...I think you could say that about every football forum ever in any pro league. An OC has never been good enough even when they clearly have been. That being said, I am not a huge Hogan fan right now. Sometimes a football forum does have a valid reason for criticism. That being said, Walters didn't give the coaching staff much to work with in the passing game.

[17to85]

7 minutes ago, johnzo said:

has there ever been a Bomber OC that MBB liked?  Looking at the recent OCs...

Marcel Bellefeuille -- emergency scrap heap guy, best of many bad options at the time who  somehow hung on too long

Lapo -- too cerebral, no killer instinct, bad playcaller

Buck -- ruined Streveler, predictable playcaller.

Hogan -- worse than Buck.  offence starts hot and ends cold.  can't make adjustments.  seen wearing backwards hat and sunglasses.

seriously, I don't think I can recall an OC who was good enough for this board.

I liked buck for the most part, just last year he seemed to get stupid, but that might also have been collaros problems.

[johnzo]

(deleted)

Edited 29 minutes ago by johnzo

[GCn20]

10 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

I liked buck for the most part, just last year he seemed to get stupid, but that might also have been collaros problems.

Yes and no. Surely Collaros made some bad decisions, but mostly because Buck allowed him to do so. Sometimes and OC has to take the green light away and that was Buck's biggest flaw.  

What we have in Hogan will be really put to the test with Schoen and Wilson (almost certainly going to be cut by the Jets) set to join us soon. That vastly improves our receiver set. If our offence can't get on track with the addition of these two guys then we know we have a huge problem at OC.

Edited 24 minutes ago by GCn20

[johnzo]

4 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

What we have in Hogan will be really put to the test with Schoen and Wilson (almost certainly going to be cut by the Jets) set to join us soon. That vastly improves our receiver set. If our offence can't get on track with the addition of these two guys then we know we have a huge problem at OC.

I hope I'm wrong but I've got the feeling that Roadhouse's best days are behind him ... and even if he can get back to his peak, he's going to take awhile to get there.

[Booch]

14 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I can agree that it's not one or the other, both management and coaching staff are not performing well. My point is that at the end of the day, talent level is a GMs job not a HCs. How that talent performs on the field is coaching. We have a talent defiiciency for sure, and the talent we do have is not performing up to snuff...or at least to the level we now demand as an organization. Top teams stay top teams by demanding excellence and we are not getting it from Walters on down to the players on the PR.

Part of problem in my opinion tho is the HC ability to actually evaluate and identify the talent too....he values some things that don't translate to success on the field, and for whatever reason feels the need to play excessive Canadians at times...and in key spots when not needed

If a scouting staff brings guys in and the HC chooses to keep and roster possibly inferior guys....then that's not on the scouting staff...Part of the issue here is after some yrs of futility, and almost getting canned Osh got some success with a loaded lineup (provided by the G.M and scouts) but then clinged to way too many and made some odd roster decisions as well and  we never really re-loaded or had actual transition pieces being groomed...and where we actually did...we let em walk....did we give the coach based on that initial success too much leeway in who he wanted...and didnt....and the G.M allowed it?....was it the G.M was lazy and had no balls and didnt see it, or question things?...I think It a bit of A...a bit of B....and Walter's should have played Boss a few yrs ago and sat his coach down and said....sorry if this isnt to your liking but we moving on from player A...B...etc...

And the part of the not playing up to snuff...well do some better coaching perhaps....or actual coaching....and if your staff beneath you isn't getting things done, then as the HC replace them...too much back slapping....buddy buddy stuff here....Thats a good thing to a point but you also have to be cut throat and cold too at times.....

15 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

I liked buck for the most part, just last year he seemed to get stupid, but that might also have been collaros problems.

I think it was the sum of the parts really...Buck started out well....but ZC was also a better QB then...with better pieces...when he started to degrade, and we had to use and integrate a lot of new bodies...and some guys with minimal to zero experience...Buck couldnt adjust his playbook, or his calls

Hogan now....is limited in what he can actually do, due to lack of experience and being a first time OC at the pro level....also think he has a bit of an ego that needs to be put in check....couple that with the worst receiving group in the league...and a less than 100 percent BO...well we getting what is to be expected....crap sandwiches

2 minutes ago, johnzo said:

I hope I'm wrong but I've got the feeling that Roadhouse's best days are behind him ... and even if he can get back to his peak, he's going to take awhile to get there.

He should have been 6 gamed minimum right out of the gate...if not 2 times....we likely set him back ...a lot and doubt he gonna be anywhere near what he was the first 2 yrs this yr

The fact he is braced up now....not a good sign at all and really....rostering him again is probably a really stupid decision...gonna hand cuff us....and him and takes away a healthy individual from play time/development

sadly...I totally expect us to do this....