Yup, gotta say he got it right when he referenced Head Coach Michael O'Shea being in trouble if he lost today.  Team is slipping and he seems to be unaware of it.  Too much talent too to be allowing this.

Id say the BOD had better get the message to Miller and him to Walters that underachieving shouldn't be allowed here.  MOS is no rookie head coach anymore so the results have to get better than this.

I'd say if he doesn't make the playoffs, he's gotta be done.  And besides, he was insane to keep Richie Hall around here to ruin the defense.

Also, if he fails to make the playoffs and gets fired, I'd consider putting Nichols on the trade block and giving Streveler a starter's contract.

2 hours ago, Rod Black said:

Nah. Your wrong. The problem is that our team wears blue, has a W on the helmet, and is named the Blue Bombers. You’ve missed it because we should have an S on the helmets, different colours and be named “the Winnipeg Big Purple Vein Chris Strevelers”. 

You need to have a conversation with Skunk. 

1 minute ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

Only 3 sacks given up this game, for the most part I think he had decent protection, just couldn't find receivers when he needed to.

Only one on the OL too.  2 of them Nichols statued against 3 man rush, didn't throw it away, didn't scramble, just hunkered down until the Riders worked to him.  On the 3rd one Hughes and Jefferson turnstiled both tackles.

1 hour ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Buck.  I bet they give him playcalling if they don't turn it around next week.  Might keep Lapo around to gameplan and coach receivers.  Have a bye after Banjo Bowl.

This would be truly ridiculous.  What would lead you to believe that Buck has any sort of clue?

Furthermore, it does not make sense that LaPolice has suddenly turned into an idiot. It is much more plausible that Nichols is the primary problem, especially when other teams are getting any sort of heat on him. That is on him – for a limited skill set – and even more so on the coach for refusing to change it up and put in somebody more mobile after a whole pile more 2 and outs. 

 I mean, do you really believe that Buck P. – who hardly showed a lot of strategic savvy during his playing days – is going to be more effective at playcalling than LaPolice?

1 minute ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Only one on the OL too.  2 of them Nichols statued against 3 man rush, didn't throw it away, didn't scramble, just hunkered down until the Riders worked to him.  On the 3rd one Hughes and Jefferson turnstiled both tackles.

One screen to Harris...

Is it Nichols or Lapo... or Lapo overthinking to compensate for Nichols...?

1 minute ago, deepsixemtoboyd said:

This would be truly ridiculous.  What would lead you to believe that Buck has any sort of clue?

Furthermore, it does not make sense that LaPolice has suddenly turned into an idiot. It is much more plausible that Nichols is the primary problem, especially when other teams are getting any sort of heat on him. That is on him – for a limited skill set – and even more so on the coach for refusing to change it up and put in somebody more mobile after a whole pile more 2 and outs. 

 I mean, do you really believe that Buck P. – who hardly showed a lot of strategic savvy during his playing days – is going to be more effective at playcalling than LaPolice?

Lapolice has always been an idiot.  He's never run a consistent offense, even in a good year.  People always get jacked about 3-4 good games he puts together, too bad a season is 20-21 games including playoffs.

Why do you underestimate Pierce?  Where did Lapo play pro ball?

7 minutes ago, deepsixemtoboyd said:

This would be truly ridiculous.  What would lead you to believe that Buck has any sort of clue?

 

I'm not really buying the notion that it's going to happen either, but sure seems people get ideas like that a lot such as assuming Jordan Younger will suddenly take over play calling after Richie Hall gets sent packing.  Only misgivings I'd have about that though is if he kept the junky playbook.

6 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Lapolice has always been an idiot.  He's never run a consistent offense, even in a good year.  People always get jacked about 3-4 good games he puts together, too bad a season is 20-21 games including playoffs.

Why do you underestimate Pierce?  Where did Lapo play pro ball?

What evidence do you have that Buck would be effective? When has he ever been effective? He never won a Grey Cup, threw 18 picks against 14 TD’s in his best season here (2011- we went to the Cup that year in spite of him not because of him), and he has never struck me as even close to cerebral or well-spoken or even clear during interviews (whereas a guy like Dickenson or Maas or Clements all showed better on all those measures).

Just now, deepsixemtoboyd said:

What evidence do you have that Buck would be effective? When has he ever been effective? He never won a Grey Cup, threw 18 picks against 14 TD’s in his best season here (2011- we went to the Cup that year in spite of him not because of him), and he has never struck me as even close to cerebral or well-spoken or even clear during interviews (whereas a guy like Dickenson or Maas or Clements all showed better on all those measures).

No evidence.  Just know that Lapo is a mess.  Basically the game plan needs to be get a 3 TD lead and hold it in the second half because the offense isn't going to score.  BTW Buck has a speech impediment so not really a fair way to judge his intelligence and sure he wasn't the most talented QB and struggled with injuries.  Based on your thoughts on him he probably shouldn't even be in our QB room!

27 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Lapolice has always been an idiot.  He's never run a consistent offense, even in a good year.  People always get jacked about 3-4 good games he puts together, too bad a season is 20-21 games including playoffs.

Why do you underestimate Pierce?  Where did Lapo play pro ball?

Not to mention that buck isnt a dumb ass QB a la bishop. Guys very cerebral.  not sure why hes getting written off.. hes been a QB coach a few seasons now too.  someone must think hes intelligent

33 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Lapolice has always been an idiot.  He's never run a consistent offense, even in a good year.  People always get jacked about 3-4 good games he puts together, too bad a season is 20-21 games including playoffs.

Why do you underestimate Pierce?  Where did Lapo play pro ball?

I hear what you're saying but you don't necessarily have to play pro ball to be able to coach at the pro level.

16 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Lapolice has always been an idiot.  He's never run a consistent offense, even in a good year.  People always get jacked about 3-4 good games he puts together, too bad a season is 20-21 games including playoffs.

Why do you underestimate Pierce? 

Where did Lapo play pro ball?

He's never run a consistent offense, even in a good year:

Year - Team - Standing in total points
2008 - SSK - 4th in total points
2009 - SSK - 2nd in total points
2016 - WPG - 5th in total points
2017 - WPG - 1st in total points
2018 - WPG - Still 1st in total points with 338, next closest is Edmonton with 285, though we have played one more game than them currently.

So, at worst, LaPo is middle of the pack as an OC.

Why underestimate Pierce? He literally has almost no coaching experience whatsoever, and he's been with us since 2014. Not only that, for most of his coaching career he's been learning from LaPolice, this would be the equivalent of asking the teacher's pet to stand up and teach calculus.

Where did LaPolice play pro ball? Since when does playing professional football translate into being a good coach? There's plenty of coaches out there that never played at the professional level, but are still great coaches, for example - Bill Belichick.

33 minutes ago, deepsixemtoboyd said:

What evidence do you have that Buck would be effective? When has he ever been effective? He never won a Grey Cup, threw 18 picks against 14 TD’s in his best season here (2011- we went to the Cup that year in spite of him not because of him), and he has never struck me as even close to cerebral or well-spoken or even clear during interviews (whereas a guy like Dickenson or Maas or Clements all showed better on all those measures).

Buck can throw a gatorade container farther than Maas... for sure

23 minutes ago, Eternal optimist said:

He's never run a consistent offense, even in a good year:

Year - Team - Standing in total points
2008 - SSK - 4th in total points
2009 - SSK - 2nd in total points
2016 - WPG - 5th in total points
2017 - WPG - 1st in total points
2018 - WPG - Still 1st in total points with 338, next closest is Edmonton with 285, though we have played one more game than them currently.

So, at worst, LaPo is middle of the pack as an OC.

Why underestimate Pierce? He literally has almost no coaching experience whatsoever, and he's been with us since 2014. Not only that, for most of his coaching career he's been learning from LaPolice, this would be the equivalent of asking the teacher's pet to stand up and teach calculus.

Where did LaPolice play pro ball? Since when does playing professional football translate into being a good coach? There's plenty of coaches out there that never played at the professional level, but are still great coaches, for example - Bill Belichick.

Talking consistency.  His offenses always have long lapses.  That's a huge problem in my opinion.  That's a big difference in winning and losing.  Lots of times all you need are 2-3-4 first downs, even if the drive ends in a punt.  Eat clock, get field position.  The long stretches of 2 and outs are killers.  Even with some gaudy numbers and individual seasons by guys like Khari, Stegall, Durant, Harris, Lapo's teams have finished 1st in their division twice in 10 seasons as a playcaller.

Did you take out all the TD's D and special teams scored, safeties?

Lapo came here in 2002 with 2 years of pro coaching experience.  Maas took over as OC in Ottawa with the same level of experience Buck has.  Who knows if he's up to it, but he's not inexperienced.  We know Lapo is drowning right now.  Maybe Manny Matzakis is available since experience is so crucial.

59 minutes ago, Floyd said:

Buck can throw a gatorade container farther than Maas... for sure

What will happen, Tuesday, is that Miller will throw the boardroom table further than Buck can throw a Gatorade container. If the fellas that work for him get a bit of Wade love, they’ll get the message. Kaka rolls down hill. 

1 hour ago, Eternal optimist said:

Not only that, for most of his coaching career he's been learning from LaPolice, this would be the equivalent of asking the teacher's pet to stand up and teach calculus.

Then he should know what not to do, 😅

Edited September 3, 20187 yr by pigseye
z

2 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

No evidence.  Just know that Lapo is a mess.  Basically the game plan needs to be get a 3 TD lead and hold it in the second half because the offense isn't going to score.  BTW Buck has a speech impediment so not really a fair way to judge his intelligence and sure he wasn't the most talented QB and struggled with injuries.  Based on your thoughts on him he probably shouldn't even be in our QB room!

Don’t get me wrong: I think buck’s very likeable as a person.  I once sat next to him on a plane and he seemed very polite and decent. 

Maybe he does bring something as a QB coach? I really have no way of knowing. That said, I have never been able to understand the love affair that some Peggers had/have with Buck as a football pro. Being a super nice and passionate guy didn’t make him a effective QB and does not translate into him being an effective offensive coordinator. To me, the way he carries himself, his lack of coaching experience, and his overall lack of success as a quarterback simply don’t inspire confidence that he could get it done or would be an improvement on Lapo.

In sum: I have no ill will against a man, I just don’t want to see him as our OC and don’t see any rational, compelling evidence to the contrary. 

3 minutes ago, deepsixemtoboyd said:

Don’t get me wrong: I think buck’s very likeable as a person.  I once sat next to him on a plane and he seemed very polite and decent. 

Maybe he does bring something as a QB coach? I really have no way of knowing. That said, I have never been able to understand the love affair that some Peggers had/have with Buck as a football pro. Being a super nice and passionate guy didn’t make him a effective QB and does not translate into him being an effective offensive coordinator. To me, the way he carries himself, his lack of coaching experience, and his overall lack of success as a quarterback simply don’t inspire confidence that he could get it done or would be an improvement on Lapo.

In sum: I have no ill will against a man, I just don’t want to see him as our OC and don’t see any rational, compelling evidence to the contrary. 

Where do OC's come from?

1 hour ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Talking consistency.  His offenses always have long lapses.  That's a huge problem in my opinion.  That's a big difference in winning and losing.  Lots of times all you need are 2-3-4 first downs, even if the drive ends in a punt.  Eat clock, get field position.  The long stretches of 2 and outs are killers.  Even with some gaudy numbers and individual seasons by guys like Khari, Stegall, Durant, Harris, Lapo's teams have finished 1st in their division twice in 10 seasons as a playcaller.

Did you take out all the TD's D and special teams scored, safeties?

Lapo came here in 2002 with 2 years of pro coaching experience.  Maas took over as OC in Ottawa with the same level of experience Buck has.  Who knows if he's up to it, but he's not inexperienced.  We know Lapo is drowning right now.  Maybe Manny Matzakis is available since experience is so crucial.

Re: TD's for D and special teams; This is your sticking point? It's the CFL - probably 95% of all points are scored by the offense, sure there may be some defensive touchdowns and special team touchdowns rolled into those numbers, I have no idea, my source for those amounts was the CFL's own site here:
https://www.cfl.ca/team-leaders/?stat_category=offence&season=2008&week=undefined (etc. for 2009, so on)

Even if defensive touchdowns / special teams touchdowns are included in those numbers, how many pick-6's is a team going to have in a year? All-time CFL record for defensive touchdowns is 11 by BC back in 1987. Besides, the other teams will have their own non-offensive touchdowns, which would help even things out. Really, this point is trivial, if you think defensive touchdowns and special team touchdowns are the norms for scoring in the CFL, we're not watching the same league.

Finishing first in your division is irrelevant - we're talking about LaPo as an OC, not the entire team as a whole.

LaPo did have only 2 years professional coaching experience (with the Argos') before working as OC...but before then, he had been coaching since '93. He coached at the University level since '94. Suggesting Pierce is going to come in as OC, light things up, and make everything butterflies and rainbows is delusional. If it was that easy, teams would do just that all the time, and half the people on this forum would be offensive coordinators. Instead most of us are just offensive.

Edited September 3, 20187 yr by Eternal optimist
link

8 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Where do OC's come from?

Well, we are in a circular argument now...

They’re usually promoted on the basis of some of the measures of success and indicators of competence described by me and others in previous posts.

I’ve suggested Buck lacks these fundamental indicators in sufficient measure to warrant such a promotion.

Edited September 3, 20187 yr by deepsixemtoboyd

We haven't developed a QB in decades... now we have Streveler looking like he has something... and we're going to promote a rookie OC?

No thanks.

4 minutes ago, deepsixemtoboyd said:

Well, we are in a circular argument now...

They’re usually promoted on the basis of some of the measures of success and indicators of competence described by me and others in previous posts.

I’ve suggested Buck lacks these fundamental indicators in sufficient measure to warrant such a promotion.

8 years playing, 4 coaching positions, 12 combined, that's a lot of experience to be writing off.

Dickinson only had 2 years coaching positions before becoming OC. 

2 minutes ago, Floyd said:

We haven't developed a QB in decades... now we have Streveler looking like he has something... and we're going to promote a rookie OC?

No thanks.

Well to be fair, you could argue Buck the QB coach has been partially responsible for that development.

But I do agree it'd be a risky move.  I'm not assuming either way that Buck is good or bad at creating a play book since nobody knows.  But if Streveler suddenly made Lapo's offense look good again ... Well we'd know what was holding it back.

Also, I'd have to agree being that Pierce practically was raised in the Lapolice system, he'd likely base his own playbook off of that one.

4 minutes ago, Eternal optimist said:

Re: TD's for D and special teams; This is your sticking point? It's the CFL - probably 95% of all points are scored by the offense, sure there may be some defensive touchdowns and special team touchdowns rolled into those numbers, I have no idea, my source for those amounts was the CFL's own site here:
https://www.cfl.ca/team-leaders/?stat_category=defence&season=2008&week=undefined (etc. for 2009, so on)

Even if defensive touchdowns / special teams touchdowns are included in those numbers, how many pick-6's is a team going to have in a year? All-time CFL record for defensive touchdowns is 11 by BC back in 1987. Besides, the other teams will have their own non-offensive touchdowns, which would help even things out. Really, this point is trivial, if you think defensive touchdowns and special team touchdowns are the norms for scoring in the CFL, we're not watching the same league.

Finishing first in your division is irrelevant - we're talking about LaPo as an OC, not the entire team as a whole.

LaPo did have only 2 years professional coaching experience (with the Argos') before working as OC...but before then, he had been coaching since '93. He coached at the University level since '94. Suggesting Pierce is going to come in as OC, light things up, and make everything butterflies and rainbows is delusional. If it was that easy, teams would do just that all the time, and half the people on this forum would be offensive coordinators. Instead most of us are just offensive.

Speaks to rank in points for being not a great indicator of points in the standings, the ones that count for placement. 

Who suggested Pierce is going to light things up?  I'm suggesting the Bombers need to try something different.  They can't replace all the players.  Clearly the playcalling is a problem when you go two quarters in nearly every game with almost no production, even in terms of getting first downs.  Pierce is one of 4 offensive coaches, and the most logical to take over playcalling either temporarily or for the rest of the season if it were taken from Lapo.  A different point of view could make a positive difference and break some fairly obvious tendencies Lapo has that teams are clearly preying on week after week.

Playcalling changes hands all the time.  Most often head coaches are offensive coaches and take it over, or it goes vice-versa where the head coach was calling plays and hands it off to the OC.  Bombers are a bit unique having a coach who isn't an offensive coach, just them, BC and Ottawa.

36 minutes ago, Eternal optimist said:

Re: TD's for D and special teams; This is your sticking point? It's the CFL - probably 95% of all points are scored by the offense, sure there may be some defensive touchdowns and special team touchdowns rolled into those numbers, I have no idea, my source for those amounts was the CFL's own site here:
https://www.cfl.ca/team-leaders/?stat_category=offence&season=2008&week=undefined (etc. for 2009, so on)

Even if defensive touchdowns / special teams touchdowns are included in those numbers, how many pick-6's is a team going to have in a year? All-time CFL record for defensive touchdowns is 11 by BC back in 1987. Besides, the other teams will have their own non-offensive touchdowns, which would help even things out. Really, this point is trivial, if you think defensive touchdowns and special team touchdowns are the norms for scoring in the CFL, we're not watching the same league.

Finishing first in your division is irrelevant - we're talking about LaPo as an OC, not the entire team as a whole.

LaPo did have only 2 years professional coaching experience (with the Argos') before working as OC...but before then, he had been coaching since '93. He coached at the University level since '94. Suggesting Pierce is going to come in as OC, light things up, and make everything butterflies and rainbows is delusional. If it was that easy, teams would do just that all the time, and half the people on this forum would be offensive coordinators. Instead most of us are just offensive.

Course speaking of special teams, our HC whose supposed to be the guru of that department got badly whipped there today too.  Things are pointing quickly to his exit at the end of this season.

If he is back next year though, he'll immediately be on borrowed time as will Walters assuming Miller is feeling the heat from the BOD.

10 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

(1) Speaks to rank in points for being not a great indicator of points in the standings, the ones that count for placement. 

Who suggested Pierce is going to light things up?  I'm suggesting the Bombers need to try something different.  They can't replace all the players.  Clearly the playcalling is a problem when you go two quarters in nearly every game with almost no production, even in terms of getting first downs.  (22) Pierce is one of 4 offensive coaches, and the most logical to take over playcalling either temporarily or for the rest of the season if it were taken from Lapo.  A different point of view could make a positive difference and break some fairly obvious tendencies Lapo has that teams are clearly preying on week after week.

Playcalling changes hands all the time.  Most often head coaches are offensive coaches and take it over, or it goes vice-versa where the head coach was calling plays and hands it off to the OC.  Bombers are a bit unique having a coach who isn't an offensive coach, just them, BC and Ottawa.

(1) Scoring points doesn't directly correlate with doing well in the standings, but what other measure would you use to evaluate LaPo's abilities as an offensive coordinator? If not points scored (which as shown previously his offenses do), then what?

4 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

I wonder if they'd let Nichols call the plays like Kevin Glenn in the second half of 2008.  Usually when that happens it's a pretty good sign that the coaching staff has totally lost control.

(2) Four hours ago you suggested handing the reigns over to someone other than LaPo (Nichols) would exhibit a total loss of control... now you're suggesting we do the exact same thing for Buck Pierce? You're contradicting yourself here.

By comparison, Pierce has as much experience calling plays as Glenn did back in '08. Sorry took so long to reply - took me a while to find out if you were just joking or not here, but the Bombers did in fact let Glenn do play-calling back then. (source: https://archives.winnipegfreepress.com/winnipeg-free-press/2008-08-30/page-65/)