I didn't think we had a thread for this. 

Is Trudeau this out of touch or does he just not care?

 

6 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Most if not all 94 recommendations seem reasonable. How many recommendations will the federal government enact?

I believe they have only started 15...

One of the immediate things that the City of Winnipeg can do is rename Bishop Grandin Boulevard. 

Someone on facebook actually suggested they name it after Tommy Prince

11 hours ago, Mark H. said:

Good God, that's eugenics, in 2021. 

Well not exactly... not like it's permanent sterilization. Violating peoples autonomy certainly but there is a difference.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/survivors-faith-leaders-call-on-catholic-church-to-take-responsibility-for-residential-schools-1.6048077

The appalling silence of the church in its complicity is actually disgusting. Which is to say nothing of no real apologies or remorse being expressed.

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Well not exactly... not like it's permanent sterilization. Violating peoples autonomy certainly but there is a difference.

The intent is still to control an oppressed segment of the population - even if the definition is a micrometre off target. 

1 hour ago, blue_gold_84 said:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/survivors-faith-leaders-call-on-catholic-church-to-take-responsibility-for-residential-schools-1.6048077

The appalling silence of the church in its complicity is actually disgusting. Which is to say nothing of no real apologies or remorse being expressed.

It's important literally every church has a response of some kind. It wasn't just the Catholic church involved. I'd implore everyone who goes to a church to demand some kind of action, and if there isn't any, I'd urge you to leave it. 

2 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

It's important literally every church has a response of some kind. It wasn't just the Catholic church involved. I'd implore everyone who goes to a church to demand some kind of action, and if there isn't any, I'd urge you to leave it. 

The Catholic church has participated in several genocides and has never expressed regret or responsibility. I think they just assume that the organization will outlast any criticisms. This has worked very well so far.

This is by no means meant to discount what has apparently happened in BC and other Canadian places, but the Catholic church has always considered people expendable utilities for the wealth of the Church. You may wish to look up the Magdalene Laundries in Ireland, the "butterbox babies" in Quebec and its complicity in the mezzo-American wars, not to mention its shielding of Nazi fugitives in 1945-46. The list is long and appalling.

Religion has & will continue to be a scourge on all of humanity.

3 hours ago, Mark H. said:

The intent is still to control an oppressed segment of the population - even if the definition is a micrometre off target. 

I am just a fan of being technically correct. The best kind of correct.

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

technically correct. The best kind of correct.

wrong. (technically)

Edited June 1, 20214 yr by Mark F

3 hours ago, Tracker said:

The Catholic church has participated in several genocides and has never expressed regret or responsibility. I think they just assume that the organization will outlast any criticisms. This has worked very well so far.

This is by no means meant to discount what has apparently happened in BC and other Canadian places, but the Catholic church has always considered people expendable utilities for the wealth of the Church. You may wish to look up the Magdalene Laundries in Ireland, the "butterbox babies" in Quebec and its complicity in the mezzo-American wars, not to mention its shielding of Nazi fugitives in 1945-46. The list is long and appalling.

New France (17th - 18th century): the "no Black Robes - no fur trade" policy with the natives

16th - 18th century Europe: assimilation and/or killing of Anabaptists and others who did not conform to established religions

Canadian Residential Schools (also includes Anglican, Lutheran and others): the longest running genocide in world history.  From fairly early on in New France, to as recent as 1996

And more...

11 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

And more...

 

"The statue of Edward Cornwallis is gone. But for many Mi’kmaq and Indigenous people across Canada, the question remains: Is the bounty still on the books or not?

In late January, Halifax city council voted to remove the statue. It was taken down immediately afterwards.

Cornwallis, celebrated as the founder of Halifax, issued two scalping proclamations after he arrived in Mi’kma’ki in 1749. “Ten guineas for every Indian taken or destroyed.” He rescinded both bounties by the time he left in 1752.

But four years later, Governor Charles Lawrence issued another cash bounty on the Mi’kmaq in Nova Scotia.

“…a Reward of Thirty Pounds for every male Indian Prisoner above the Age of Sixteen Years brought in alive or a Scalp of such Male Indian Twenty five Pounds and Twenty five Pounds for every Indian Woman or Child brought in alive…”

This proclamation was never rescinded.

https://www.aptnnews.ca/national-news/not-forgotten-mikmaq-bounty-never-rescinded/

Ive often thought that it would be far more effective to put a plaque in front of the statues describing the true nature of the person or whatever nefarious deeds they commited. If the statue is removed ,yes they are forgotten but so is our societies part in  their crimes. The crime itself is forgotten.  On the other hand I also think the decision should be left to those who were wronged.

3 minutes ago, the watcher said:

Ive often thought that it would be far more effective to put a plaque in front of the statues describing the true nature of the person or whatever nefarious deeds they commited. If the statue is removed ,yes they are forgotten but so is our societies part in  their crimes. The crime itself is forgotten.  On the other hand I also think the decision should be left to those who were wronged.

The $5, $10, & $50 bills - would have some interesting stories...

This guy is my favourite follow on Twitter these days... 

 

10 hours ago, the watcher said:

Ive often thought that it would be far more effective to put a plaque in front of the statues describing the true nature of the person or whatever nefarious deeds they commited. If the statue is removed ,yes they are forgotten but so is our societies part in  their crimes. The crime itself is forgotten.  On the other hand I also think the decision should be left to those who were wronged.

Have you forgotten Hitler? 

Imagine going to a park with your family and seeing statues (of honour), in prominent places, of people who murdered your ancestors? Tear them down. They are relics.

Statues of historical figures have next to zero value in educating people about actual history.  Therefore, there is little history erased when one is torn down.

We should be spending more on books and less on statues and even less on fighting to keep them up in public spaces.

 

No history is erased when a useless statue is removed from a park, university campus, public space etc.

The fact that such individuals would be "celebrated" to that degree is pretty messed up, IMO. And that's to say nothing of institutions, roadways, etc. being named after them. 

We can gloss over our nation's bloody past all we want but those skeletons in the closet, so to speak, will inevitably come out over time. We're seeing that unfold right now before our very eyes as we learn of the horrific reality of what residential schools actually were.

Edited June 2, 20214 yr by blue_gold_84

saw this on facebook last night

 

I find it interesting that like authoritarian countries, North American culture seems to celebrate individuals more than ideas.  

23 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

Have you forgotten Hitler? 

Of course not. Did you actually read and think about what I said ?  Apparently not.

1: I said it should be up to the people that have suffered 

2: I said it shouldn't be forgotten that we as a society took part in this and allowed it

3 : I said I think it served as a better purpose  to  educate people on what happened than   ignore our history

 

Edited June 3, 20214 yr by the watcher

23 hours ago, blue_gold_84 said:

No history is erased when a useless statue is removed from a park, university campus, public space etc.

The fact that such individuals would be "celebrated" to that degree is pretty messed up, IMO. And that's to say nothing of institutions, roadways, etc. being named after them. 

We can gloss over our nation's bloody past all we want but those skeletons in the closet, so to speak, will inevitably come out over time. We're seeing that unfold right now before our very eyes as we learn of the horrific reality of what residential schools actually were.

I will use McDonald as an example. So a statue of him with a plaque in front, written by indigenous  people describing what he did, how it impacted them and how it's legacy still impacts them still would not be celebrating him. It would flip the story. It would serve as a reminder of what happened and possibly educate those who just don't get it . Ripping it down may feel good but serves no purpose on changing peoples minds or teaching them about what happened. Basicly the same idea as what you see in the museum of Human Rights but not within its walls where some never  venture.

As a residential school survivor I will share my opinion. There really is no way of making reparations for this sad chapter. It must be acknowledged, remembered, but MOST importantly the effects it has had on native society must be understood. Generations separated from parents and community has had a massive trickle down effect to today. Native children having children today have no parental modelling to learn from because their parents and even grand parents don't even know how to role model for their children because they were never taught how. If the government of Canada wants to start making reparations then start in the present by overhauling CFS so that it becomes proactive instead of reactive. Bring back parental guidance and supports so that the new generations can learn how to teach their own children morals, and values and what it takes to be a responsible parent. Start by giving aboriginals a hand up, not a hand out. Create industry on reserves so that there is meaningful employment. The lazy Indian myth only persists to this day because the government stuck our people in the middle of nowhere with no prospect for employment. Start by fixing the water and housing crisis plaguing every reserve. Start by allowing first nations people to actually own the land and house they live on/in so that they may start building wealth.  Start by forcing native leadership to produce financial statements to their people so that there is transparency. I could rattle off a hundred more things.....but I'll leave you with those to chew on for a bit.