GCn20
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Without Collaros I have almost no hope we are in the playoffs. Streveler is not a starting quality QB. Anyone arguing differently is drinking Booch's Kool aid.
On 2025-09-05 at 2:13 PM, sweep the leg said:I’d like to know why the team dr/medical staff expected rehab without surgery to be good enough for Schoen to play again this season. I get rehab alone can work for an average joe, but it seems crazy to trust it for a guy who runs and gets hit for a living.
Are we seriously questioning the knowledge/integrity of our medical staff?
Do any of you guys have a hot clue how many athletes play through partially torn ACLs? Some even voluntarily have gotten them removed Eg. Marve.
It is a completely manageable injury with a brace.
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7 minutes ago, Booch said:
Never ever said I was unhappy with Wilson as he is one of the vets if healthy that we dont need to move on from....so dont put words in my mouth,,,if anything I have said Kyrie if healthy is a top WIL in league and has shown as such.....,especially last 3 games
T.Jones is ok....has holes and would flourish more situationally...Is poor in his drops and isnt really capable of coverage...He was great when paired with J.Jones and was able to mirror how he dropped tho...and we need to have both on roster to be our best
And if a player is better....he shouldn't have to wait and bide time....delaying these guy coming in...what did it accomplish ir do?....zero
We are losing games due to poor coaching and roster use....guys not coached uo or schemed properly let alone at times seem prepared...Thats where we are lacking....and the roster seeming weak is also hand in hand with not playing rhe right guys we have....and not continually looking for guys to upgrade our PR and or roster
who said anything about Osh scouting?
I will agree that our O and D coordination has a lot to be desired. Our roster usage could be a lot better but realistically isn't losing us games. Contributing for sure, but if we had the talent level and the schemes in place we would like the last several year, be grousing about it on a first place team with a couple losses at this point. I would love MOS to use the designated IMP rule, I would love to see a tweak here or there in our lineup. Do I think it's why we are losing? Nope. Just making it harder to win. When I look at the difference between 2019 or 2021 and this team I see a vastly different amount of talent and quality depth. That's 90% of our problem right now. We have bled talent. Anyone suggesting that the answer is in house is dreaming in technicolor. Kyle Walters had to have a make it or break it offseason this year, and he had probably his worst offseason yet.
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12 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:
It was clear from game one that only two ends was a poor choice, so yes, Pearson should have been on the opening day roster. Bridges was awful all year but seemed to be penciled in from day one of TC so yeah again Allen should have been in. Woodby fair enough.
Bridges was awful, and he was replaced. Giving Allen big kudos seems wrong to me. He has not been all that good. He has whiffed on many coverages and tackles over the past few games and taken some very costly penalties as well. I think we could do better, and need to get better at his spot as well. You are making the assumption that Person, a rookie, was ready to go game one. I would not make that assumption and am not going to flog any coach for waiting until a player is both physically and mentally ready to compete. Person has looked OK, not great, but I would tend to think the coaches wanted to give him more time to adjust to the Canadian game before throwing him out there. In preseason he was having a hard time with the yard off the ball and some other nuances of our game. As he gets more used to it, his impact will grow. Woodby same thing likely. Just needed time to learn the nuances in practice, study film, learn how to react and play in the Canadian game. Once they were ready they got their shot. Not sure why ppl think that rookies not playing serious reps until game 8 is out of the ordinary, or a coach not identifying talent. Talent is great but talent has to be game ready. Bridges was a head scratcher but his first 2 games he played great and that is likely why he got more rope than he should have. Allen is no prize either tho.
Dave Ritchie used to say for every rookie you add to your starting lineup you can pencil in 1 loss to go with that. That is not an exaggeration. Throwing raw rookies into the mix is not an optimum solution. You want to be able to slow play their roll out if possible. None of the guys you have mentioned are talented enough that they jump off the page. Sure some rookies can come in and play like all stars. They are the very small minority of rookies and certainly not any of the guys you have listed.
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17 hours ago, 17to85 said:
Your argument is bad and you should feel bad.
My argument is sound. Lack of talent is hurting us more than roster deployment.
16 hours ago, rebusrankin said:Pearson sat the first 3 games, then got in and looked good. Allen sat for what 8 games and then gets in a looks good. Woodby 10 games and then the same thing. That's three young guys who sat to start the year and when they got in contributed and played well enough to make you say, "Why was he sitting out?" That's on MOS.
Letting talent walk, thats on KW.
Its not one or the other, it is both.
It is both. However, one far outweighs the other in impact and that is my entire point. We have 600 pages and 10000 posts focusing on roster moves 51 thru 53 of our lineup and about 1 page and 60 posts talking about the real problem. All because of a few posters agenda to blame MOS. While he is not blameless, the impact of his decisions are grossly over exaggerated on this forum. Now it is at the point where MOS is getting blamed for poor scouting, and poor offseason contact negs/FA signings and that is 100% on the GM. Look, I'd like to take the tact of dumping on MOS for his poor roster usage around here too but I feel the guy needs defending from the pitchforks being pointed at him for things entirely beyond his control and that was my point. Not that MOS is blameless, but we are blaming him for poor GMing and that's over the top.
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16 hours ago, rebusrankin said:
Pearson sat the first 3 games, then got in and looked good. Allen sat for what 8 games and then gets in a looks good. Woodby 10 games and then the same thing. That's three young guys who sat to start the year and when they got in contributed and played well enough to make you say, "Why was he sitting out?" That's on MOS.
Letting talent walk, thats on KW.
Its not one or the other, it is both.
Are Person, Allen, and Woodby not getting their chance now? Sometimes you gotta wait your turn on the depth chart, and that is on every football team ever. Suggesting it was some huge mistake that Person, Woodby, and Allen never played is nonsense. They worked hard, earned their chance, and are now in the lineup.
15 hours ago, Booch said:same with game J Jones was in and got a ton of work on defence...was one our best defensive games...Coincided as well with the Griffin bumping Kramdi out off SAM....J.Jones presence made T.Jones game improve too....and he has been more lost in space and over pursuing things again since J.Jones was taken out, and our defence hasnt been as good since....coincidence....??
Osh is not good at talent evaluation and use of talent to full effectiveness....pretty apparent
You've got a problem with the way Kyrie Wilson has played? He has been very good this year. So has Tony Jones. Our linebacking crew is not the problem with our team right now. Could it be better? Maybe....but let's talk about what is losing games. Lack of talent and depth at other position groups.
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15 hours ago, Booch said:
That's Teasers...I used to bounce there...I can hook you up! 😁
Did you work there when Gerry was running it? Great guy. Good friend of mine.
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3 hours ago, Booch said:
Well really...whats in ontario? Draft prospects...not legit free agents with pro experience or NFL looks kicking around...I agree on that tho...he looks at cis guys there
And stand pat on the notion that osh for some of his good qualities is a shitty evaluator of actual talent or upside...and or values the wrong things over true talent at times
What true talent has he let go that you are aware of? And don't bring me ham and eggers like Fox or Garbutt. They are low end rotational guys at best and keeping Woods and Adams over them is actually probably a proper talent evaluation. You say he is releasing all this talent. I say that's your opinion based on nothing really. Prove me wrong. Give me the list of all stars that MOS released. I'll wait.
Look, I'm not going to sit here and defend MOS roster use. It's problematic. However, anyone trying to suggest that our lack of talent and failure to retain talent is on MOS is letting Walters off the hook way too easy. There is literally no one we have released that has done anything of note elsewhere. We have lost a ton of impact guys in FA, that is 100% on the GM. Kenny Lawler could easily have been signed and we would still be under the cap. I won't count Dobson because I believe he is grossly over rated, but he was still a loss because he wasn't adequately replaced. Again that's on the GM. Yoshi gone and replaced with a player not remotely as good. That's on the GM. The list goes on and on of guys we could have kept but our GM felt like lowballing them. At the end of the day he let Lawler walk and signed scrap heap to replace him, he let Dobson and Ford walk...that's two all star NATs out of 7 starters. These are things the GM just can't let happen. And don't give me this MOS might have said we good baloney. That's complete garbage. MOS like any other HC in the history of football has never advised his GM to let proven talent walk out the door. When guys like that leave it's for the benjamins and we've heard how many stories of our proven talent not even getting a phone call from Walters until it's too late. Janarion Grant waited all offseason for a phone call that never came before going to Toronto and he was asking for peanuts.
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On 2025-09-02 at 10:13 AM, Booch said:
IN pro football...a HC will let his G.M and scouting staff know what kind of player and skill set he looking for for about 80 percent of his roster....and the staff will also bring some in outliers they like to fill it out, as well as some prospects....Thats how it works
The G.M for the most part isnt out bird dogging either.....not his role. He's more the make it work within budget/sms guy and completes all the trans actions
He does not cut guys going over the head of the Coach...nor forces guys on field at the behest of his HC
The roster we have/had is the vison of Osh...Not the scouting staff and G.M.....Sure there are some variances here and there and some other circumstances (guys falling in your lap..etc) but they miniscule at best
I sure with some questionable stuff there is discussion about it but if the HC sells his point they gonna trust him until that trust wears thin....are we there now?...who knows
Top to bottom our staff has failed in several capacities the last 3..4 yrs...G.M to H.C....and they reason/problem/disconnect needs to be figured out lickity split or we gonna see this trend continue
The frustrating part save for the real lack of urgency this yr in player signings, or lack there of and coaching...waiting well into new yr for an O.C only to promote a guy totally not ready/qualified for the job, os that we continue to make a lot of the same stupid mistakes/moves over..and over...and over.....which lends one to think this crew in current format has hit it's best before date and has no answer now and needs to be rebooted
Kyle Walters absolutely bird dogs for the Bombers in Ontario. Absolutely nothing wrong with a coach discussing his needs with his GM. If the GM does not find the player, or bypasses a better player to listen to his coaches wants that is still 100% the fault of the GM. None of you guys will convince me that the talent signed by the GM isn't 100% his responsibility. It goes beyond logic to think otherwise. To suggest the HC pulls the strings on who Walters ultimately signs is ludicrous. Does OSH have input, absolutely, bottom line is it's Walters decision. His decisions have not been good lately.
It is beyond moronic to try and put the loss of Lawler or other all stars onto MOS. Contract negs are 100% the domain of Walters and he did not get it done for us and he could have. PERIOD. NO OTHER REALITY EXISTS.
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15 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:
So, you don't think Osh has a say in who he wants? He's right there telling Walters who to draft. Walters doesn't do it alone.
I think I watched the entire video of behind the draft and Walters definitely, and 100%, has final say. I didn't even hear MOS say a word the whole time until Walters had decided and even then Walters said OK this who we are going with, Mike you're good with that? And it wasn't so much him asking MOS but telling him.
15 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:How do we know Osh didn't think he had the horses at receiver to survive without Lawler? He probably did as he's not the best at evaluating talent. The 2 do work as a team. Besides, Osh has a lot of influence. Probably more than other Head Coaches.
You guys are really reaching now. I am sure that MOS said yea we don't need Kenny Lawler. 🤣
14 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:Walters (and famously other GM's) have been pretty clear at what their line is for paying receivers, right or wrong. Walters has scoffed at Lawler's price tag twice, and pretty publicly with detailed interviews.
I can't see any head coach being happy about losing Lawler. But I know MOS has an irrational belief in his staff and what he's built. Including the personnel department who have been pretty terrible on the American side basically since 2022.
Post Rigmaiden it has not been good.
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8 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:
The front was great last night. Kept getting Sask off the field. I really liked the scheme. Yeah you could have better players, but they aren't here right now. Everyone did their jobs even with the adversity of losing Schmekel before half. I think they could put more thought into putting Jefferson into a spot to succeed in that general scheme with the 3-3 look.
Really the big difference in the game was a couple breakdowns in the secondary and that we didn't score a TD on our 5 yard line turnover while they did.
I personally hated when they had Vaughters doing the stand up rush bit on the inside. He's not really explosive or challenging OL with length like a Jefferson does. Didn't harm them, but just a waste IMO.
I really think Younger is not looking for an edge rush. They've built scheme around getting in QB eyes more than getting to QB, and a lot of that is about Jefferson.
Vaughters made a lot of terrible plays on the edge vs the run, over committing to the flow of Sask's OL from the backside then one cutback and Ouellette was all alone. Luckily he's really slow.
Yea there were a at least a couple times Vaughters gave the edge far too early and made it an easy decision for AJ
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5 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:
The front was great last night. Kept getting Sask off the field. I really liked the scheme. Yeah you could have better players, but they aren't here right now. Everyone did their jobs even with the adversity of losing Schmekel before half. I think they could put more thought into putting Jefferson into a spot to succeed in that general scheme with the 3-3 look.
Really the big difference in the game was a couple breakdowns in the secondary and that we didn't score a TD on our 5 yard line turnover while they did.
And 2 turnovers deep in our own end. We protect the ball there we most likely win and some real bone head and costly penalties.
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9 minutes ago, Arnold_Palmer said:
I’m ok with that. Draft is a crapshoot. You never know what’s going to change year to year as players come and go. Grab the best player available.
Well except for this year they were going LB no matter what but since 2018 Walters has gone BPA or futures and has been very clear about that in interviews. This year they felt NAT LB was a huge need with our NAT LBs aging out.
The draft video is there for all to see, Walters makes the decision with scouting and then asks MOS if he is good with the pick. MOS has always said a simple Yes or Sure. There is no lobbying by MOS pre or post pick.
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43 minutes ago, 17to85 said:
I'm saying it was a draft pick based on roster construction as opposed to picking best player available. So where does that direction come from?
You can say that all you want but Walters himself said he drafts BPA. In the past he has even drafted futures over BPA or positional need. He was very clear that he hasn't drafted positional for a few years now hence our problems with the OL now.
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2 minutes ago, 17to85 said:
If they built the roster better Jake Thomas wouldn't have been out there all game long huffing and puffing away... it's criminal how little depth we have on the DL when our guys are as old as they are (never.mind that Thomas is a career depth player). We spent a ton of draft capital on linebacker yet Kyrie Wilson (who i love as a player don't get me wrong) is always out there. He's not the future and give his injury situation in the past he's barely the present. We used to regularly dress 7 offensive linemen for few situations... well we justified it by saying we didn't want to lose a couple them... well 2 of them who were depth we didn't want to lose aren't here anymore anyway and the 3rd doesn't ever get a sniff of starting no matter what. So what was the plan? There is a clear disconnect between coach and gm. So who do we blame? Ultimately the gm since he can change the coach, but that's the first step. I'm going to go ahead and blame the wasted Bennett first round pick on coaching too. That was clearly a pick made to try and maintain the Canadian rotation on the DL.
I think the flaws and strengths that each of the coach and GM have demonstrated over the last decade + are evident.... and weighing all of that I'd make a coaching change before I make a GM change. Personally I'd prefer Walters to kick O'Shea in the ass and make him use the roster he has better but not sure they've got that sort of relationship.
Baloney to blaming coaching for poor drafting. That's a reach and you know it.
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10 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:
Now we are cooking with fire. Good job KW. This will change the dynamic of our receiving corps similar to what Lawler would have in so far as how it impacts how teams can play D against us.
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29 minutes ago, 17to85 said:
Biggest problem with this team is complacency and some guys never have to worry about their jobs regardless of performance (again, complacency).... that's coaching.
Person and Allen and woodbey come in and look ******* good instantly but it was coaching kept the off the roster so long.... so at what point do we stop pretending that osh is playing the best at every position when we can see that he doesn't always do that...
If osh won't change his approach this team will just get worse and worse because the message has gone stale. Too many passengers on this team right now and that's a coaches job to fix.
Let's even say that maybe there's an overall talent problem here.... Let's say that oshea is playing his best players at each position... there are still massive problems with the way the roster is constructed and that's a common theme going back a long way. We drafted some high upside linebackers who don't get a sniff on defense while career depth Canadians get to start continuously. We have in the past dressed players who taken 0 snaps. We dress Americans to only chase kicks or do really niche situational things. I've described it in the past as playing other games on hard mode. Well that doesn't work as your team ages and loses some star power. Replacing stars doesn't happen magically, you have to actually develop players to replace aging veterans.
This league has changed to one of one year contracts. It's time Walters changes his approach. I have never been a proponent of FA but it is now a necessity in an age of unprecedented player movement. The luxury of developing players is over.
Fact is that Walters did not sign a single FA that has been an improvement over one he lost. And anyone thinking that MOS chose the FA signings only to cut them or not play them is smoking crack.
We have to recruit players that are capable year one guys and then be ready to lose them after one year of them starting. That's life in the CFL now. Giving guys reps over vets just so they can bolt is not a sustainable roster build either.
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17 minutes ago, 17to85 said:
Biggest problem with this team is complacency and some guys never have to worry about their jobs regardless of performance (again, complacency).... that's coaching.
Person and Allen and woodbey come in and look ******* good instantly but it was coaching kept the off the roster so long.... so at what point do we stop pretending that osh is playing the best at every position when we can see that he doesn't always do that...
If osh won't change his approach this team will just get worse and worse because the message has gone stale. Too many passengers on this team right now and that's a coaches job to fix.
Let's even say that maybe there's an overall talent problem here.... Let's say that oshea is playing his best players at each position... there are still massive problems with the way the roster is constructed and that's a common theme going back a long way. We drafted some high upside linebackers who don't get a sniff on defense while career depth Canadians get to start continuously. We have in the past dressed players who taken 0 snaps. We dress Americans to only chase kicks or do really niche situational things. I've described it in the past as playing other games on hard mode. Well that doesn't work as your team ages and loses some star power. Replacing stars doesn't happen magically, you have to actually develop players to replace aging veterans.
I don't deny roster construction is a problem. What i don't agree with is that many here seem to think it's our main problem. Overall talent level is 70% of the reason we are losing games. The other 30% is poor coaching, poor coordinating, and poor execution by the players.
Does anyone here honestly think we could get a different coach and suddenly this roster is a contender? I don't. Sorry, we are talent deficient at way too many position groups.
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On 2025-08-30 at 6:38 PM, Booch said:
Hes obviously not too swift
Also blames Walters yet Walters isn't out on the road....HC also tells scouts what he wants in a player and who he likes signed or let go...he fails to realize or accept that...also HC does the cutting...and roster construct...not the G.M
Walters dropped ball on free agent targets but we also don't know if his HC said he didnt want player A...or B...or if guys said no cause they wanted to go to a place with an actual chance to play...as opposed to being back seat of a coach's favorite
He yammered on how BOLO is better than Clercius...and I know with 1000 percent certainty BOLO left here because of non use and final straw was standing on sideline all game in the grey cup while Bailey..Demski and Schoen played crippled...
I have NEVER stated BOLO is better than Clercius. I do blame Walters for lack of starting talent. That's a GMs job whether you like it or not. If you want to give him a free pass to hang onto the fantasy that the fringe talent that left for playing time is our downfall then you are the one not being too swift.
Unless it is your belief the REAL talent such as Lawler, the OL, our numerous actually talented DTs such as Sayles, that left was a coaching decision? I see a crap load of FAs making huge impacts with teams that have passed us and our GM did squat.
You can sit and suggest that MOS controls who is brought in the door and if that were the case all the more reason to fire Walters if he has handed off his job to his HC.
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7 minutes ago, 17to85 said:
Straw man nothing, we don't need an all Canadian DL interior for the ratio, that's quite choice that is being made
No it's not. We go all NAT DT on 15% of our snaps. We go 3 man front more often
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On 2025-08-30 at 8:13 PM, Brandon said:
Jake is a D level player who now at his best is a D+ level. He's old as heck , unathletic, invisible on the field, offers nothing, and is taking valuable reps from anyone else.
Woli was an above average non import who when healthy could contribute and make plays. He is younger and had/has way more upside then Thomas. The reason people had no gripes was that Clercius was given a chance to play and performed at the same level so replacing him with a cheaper option is a no brainer.
Thomas sucks so badly that they could put anyone on the field and we would see absolutely no drop off. Anyone has better upside then him.
Not a comparison of their roles, a comparison of whether or not it was time to move on. We got it right with Woli and wrong with Thomas.
On 2025-08-30 at 6:28 PM, 17to85 said:You really truly believe that Thomas and Lawson are better than Adams or Woods at defensive tackle? Truly believe that?
Straw man argument because of a little thing called ratio. Of course Adams and Woods are better, just as most NATs have better IMPs that could play in their stead.
On 2025-08-30 at 8:13 PM, Brandon said:Jake is a D level player who now at his best is a D+ level. He's old as heck , unathletic, invisible on the field, offers nothing, and is taking valuable reps from anyone else.
Woli was an above average non import who when healthy could contribute and make plays. He is younger and had/has way more upside then Thomas. The reason people had no gripes was that Clercius was given a chance to play and performed at the same level so replacing him with a cheaper option is a no brainer.
Thomas sucks so badly that they could put anyone on the field and we would see absolutely no drop off. Anyone has better upside then him.
Should we miss the playoffs i expect pink slips for quite a number of people.
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4 hours ago, 17to85 said:
No it's not the same. Wolitarsky was still a guy producing as expected from his role. Thomas is a guy playing more than his ability dictates which is the issue.
Woli had a crap year last year. Let's not have revisionist history here. It's why we moved on. Comparing him and Jake is fair. Difference is Drew was never a whipping boy here. Guys clamoring go get him back are living in the past.
- BigBlueFanatic and Piggy 1
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45 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:
He's got 17 weeks to get PR or active in NFL. He's got basically 7 game cheques that he can make up here. And if he chooses the latter he's taking a punt on the NFL until 2026.
The Bombers would really have to sign him to a huge extension IMO to get him to come north. And I'm also not sure he's that good in our league.
You honestly think he has any NFL hope? I don't. He has zero teams value and is a 2x NFL early cut. IF he wants to keep playing it's the CFL or nothing this year. He can retire from football, but that is his only option for making money from now until April. I would be shocked if he isn't back here honoring his rookie contract while negotiating for an extension.
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2 hours ago, Arnold_Palmer said:
I’m not surprised though. You lose your three best receivers, you can’t continue to run Joey Corcoran and your back up quarterback, they need some vets who you can plug in incase they’re needed for Sunday.
No doubt about it. Totally had to add receivers, just sad it got this far.
40 minutes ago, Goalie said:I like Pokey but I wouldn’t go crazy overpaying for 1 year of production. I’d offer him a fair contract with an nfl out but if you ain’t making the NY jets then I’m not sure you getting another shot. I mean I work at a job that makes nepotism hires. I don’t mind but all the new office people are sons or daughters of bosses. In the nfl would a guy who was drafted and cut maybe get a shot over a guy who was undrafted and out the cfl. ?? I’m not sure there but I’d imagine NY was his chance.
Where does everyone get the idea we need to offer him a contract? He is already under contract should he choose to come back. He may ask for a new contract in order to come back but his only option is Winnipeg in the CFL. Not really a great bargaining position if he wants to play.
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45 minutes ago, wbbfan said:
Very likely, but the talent level overall would've dipped and made the game much harder to watch, especially for casual fans. Like the late 90s when the gap between imps and nis was gigantic.
We would've been hit hard league-wide at OL. I think most teams would've had to start 3-4 imports. We had a lot of good ni ol in that time who likely would've been the prime targets.
No doubt. I think we would have had to cut our NAT starter numbers in half and probably trim overall roster numbers to keep our game from scrubs being played.
3 turds plus ch winds of change
in Blue Bomber Discussion
Posted
That's just a start, Booch would be a helluva busy guy because I would want the whole thing torn down.