GCn20
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Posts posted by GCn20
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8 hours ago, CrazyCanuck89 said:
You're not downgrading by playing Canadian, rookie LBs for a few reps. Hamilton's defense improved when Veresuk got the nod at MLB.
Sure, therefore every NAT to IMP swap should be an upgrade then? C'mon...that's cherry picking. It doesn't have to be a downgrade, but it more than likely is. Let's be real.
15 hours ago, rebusrankin said:There's roughly 60 reps a game on D. If Shay and Smith were playing say 12 reps a game that's only 20%. I can't see how them playing would hurt the club but I can see how it would help aid their development and help the team. If I am wrong, explain why.
Because 12 plays can win any team a game.
16 hours ago, Noeller said:That's fair... I think rushing them to start and play full reps is unnecessary right now, but giving them SOME reps could definitely be helpful in Year 1.
That's a fair assessment.
16 hours ago, Tracker said:The big problem we have is the stubbornness of coach(es) in using the same, obviously overmatched players again and again rather than giving potentially better players onto the field. It is not universal, as yet, but there is a growing lack of confidence in most of our coaching staff. If we here feel this way, the players must as well.
Because we feel a certain way about the coaches most certainly does not mean the players feel the same as well. We are fans, we literally are talking out our asses.
12 hours ago, 17to85 said:So i wonder if our stats nerd radio play by play dude can answer... has Gauthier taken any defensive snaps this year? Cadwallader? Because if they have that's egregious. Those dudes are teamers for life and any snap they get should be going to potential future starters.
Unless, of course, Gauthier and Cadwallader are better options at this point.
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8 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:
And hardly anything to worry about when you're getting nothing from too many American spots, particularly at receiver.
Honestly we spend so much time dissecting whether our 3rd stringers should be on the roster and how much of an impact they would create. For the most part almost none. Here we are with big time holes at 1st string at many positions and we aren't talking about it but Cobb over Ball....that's the winning formula? All so that coaching can be blamed for our weak season thus far....smh. Where are our quality IMP receivers, DL, and LBers. Right now we are probably the weakest in the league for starters at 2 out of 3 of those groups and at best maybe 6th or 7th in starting LBer strength but that gives MOS too much of an out for most here. Instead of it being partly coaching and mostly talent, the narrative around here is that it's all on coaching and development failure and that is simply not true.
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42 minutes ago, Booch said:
nor is intensity...physicality....having to react...list goes on and on
you cant get in to game condition either in practice...not in this day and age
It isn't all about physicality or speed as to how a team develops a player. The mental aspect of the game is big. The comfort level, the confidence level. Like I said I am not against anyone getting reps in garbage time but to throw a guy into the fire as a first year pro is not a great idea unless they have demonstrated they are someone you just can't keep out of the lineup. We don't even do that, nor does any CFL team, for the vast majority of IMP guys who are far more polished and game ready. Are their rookies who break through, of course, but the number league wide is small compared to how many end up tossed away.
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52 minutes ago, Booch said:
can chase punts too....athletic dline guys as well....going 3 import olin here this yr just robbing Peter to pay Paul and the net gsin is miniscule if at all.....
I think it's more the value Eli brings to the Te and jumbo/short yardage package and the lack of faith in Kolo being the 6th oline guy and no ability at all to do what Eli does...hence by default he stays at center....cause nobody can say Eli doesnt excell at that role...a role of blocking and getting into the second level and taking guys out
part of the poor roster issue and lack of keeping any around....We have Cobb...a guy with a couple yrs experience...scored a few TD's...averaged over 8 yrds a punt return...shade over 23 on kick offs...he being left off.....so explain that?...They seemed very happy to pick him up
Covered kicks in pre-season.....so his value is he backs up 2 positions...plays teams ..and is experienced....and Canadian...how does Thomas....Ball...Weitz...Korn...Corcorran...get on before him?.....has more real value than all those plugs combined
Cobb is a scrub. An argument could be made to roster him but really whether we dress him or not is a nothing burger. Sometimes you gotta look down the road a couple weeks too and see that he is more than likely going to be released soon.
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5 minutes ago, 17to85 said:
They started the season with 3 American OL...
And again we go round and round... does the depth suck because of the GM or does the depth suck because of the way the coach uses the roster and practise roster? We have a brazzillion linebackers and dbs every game just to chase punts... why? We have 0 for receiver depth on an already weak group... why?
Are we leaving quality receivers off the game day roster? There is your answer. That being said things will be looking up once Schoen is ready and Wilson inevitably returns.
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53 minutes ago, Goalie said:
Unless you gonna go 3 Americans on the oline there really is nothing that can be done. That’s an off season gm thing. Guess when your gm takes the off season off, this is what happens but sure the lack of depth is on O’Shea.
Kola needed to be addressed in the offseason. It is abundantly clear that the coaches have no faith in Eli at C.
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4 minutes ago, Booch said:
you dont develop in practice...you need real reps...In games where the outcome was basically a non issue...and there been many....they should have got a lot of reps....but we risked our starters if for anything getting hurt in a lost cause....and we all know we can ill afford any injury
Also it would make practical sense to allow then rotational reps here and there as well un a game ...we trot out other guys who in all reality do nothing for us and at times are a detriment...so really not trying your rookies...especially one whom was touted by many experts the most po ready guy in the draft
Look, I'm all in favor of a few reps here and there. However, not until the coaches feel comfortable with it. We have 3 years of these players being locked in, there is absolutely no reason to rush things. NAT draft picks are the one type of player that we can ripen on the vine. Yea...we could insert them into blow outs, but honestly those are practice reps as well.
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20 minutes ago, Pete said:
Noticed ayers in last game taking more reps, but agree OShea /Younger need to start putting more faith in younger guys like Smith and Shay that they raved about at the draft
This would benefit our ratio mgmt greatly
Do we want to win, or rush our draft picks into duty they may not be ready for? I have no issue letting first year draft picks develop slowly, it is usually of great benefit to both the team and the player. I am not understanding what short coming people are seeing that would require us to play Shay/Smith right now? If the argument is for a ratio shift along the DL, then are we willing to downgrade LBer play to get this done? Look I want every draft pick to be a starter sooner rather than later as well, but I see no benefit in forcing the situation when we are not necessitated to do so. More players are ruined than actually excel when put in that situation. There is a lot to dislike about our current roster but tossing players in just to see what happens is incredibly short sighted and probably leads to losses if we do it on any kind of scale.
What's the concensus around here? That we should give up on this season and start going towards next year?
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22 minutes ago, bigg jay said:
You keep saying this but it's not really true.
I went back and looked at the draft history since 2015 and we are above the league average when it comes to retaining our OL draft picks beyond their rookie deals. I only looked at the first 2 rounds so the numbers could be better or worse overall but I was looking at the top rated OL (excluding guys who fell due to NFL interest). It was surprising how few actually last past 3 years with their original team.
- BC - 6 OL drafted, only one stayed past their rookie deal (Godber).
- EDM - 5 OL drafted, only one stayed past their rookie deal (Beard).
- CAL - 3 OL drafted and 2 have stayed past their rookie deal (Sceviour & Bell). I was a bit surprised at how few high draft picks the Stamps have used on OL.
- SSK - 5 OL drafted, only one stayed past their rookie deal (Fry).
- WPG - 6 OL drafted, 3 stayed past their rookie deals (Chungh, Couture, Gray). Dobson, Desjarlais & Spooner are the ones who didn't play at least 4 seasons with us.
- HAM - 5 OL drafted & 2 have stayed beyond rookie deal (Revenberg & Woodmansey).
- TOR - 9 OL drafter with 5 staying past their rookie deal (McEwen, Sackey, Hunter, Richards, Nicastro). They also still have Doxtater that they drafted in 2021 but he bounced around down south so he's only in year 2 with them.
- OTT - 7 OL drafted with 3 staying past their rookie deal (Mateas, Lauzon-Seguin, Pelehos).
- MTL - 6 drafted, only 1 has stayed past their rookie deal (Lestage).
Well there you have it, bigg jay for the win. Can't argue facts.
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10 hours ago, sweep the leg said:
I think it’s probably true that they really like Eli as our 6th ol. If they don’t see him as a significant upgrade at C, which appears to be the case, it wouldn't make sense to make that change. To 17to85’s comment, we don’t have to cut him if he can’t take the starting C spot. A good 6th ol is still important.
I’ve been an offensive coach at the high school level, and in my experience I’d rather play a centre I trust to make every snap rather than a guy who might be better physically but whose snaps can be an adventure. I don’t know for sure that’s the case here (trust), just a possibility.
A good snapper and pre-snap OL communicator is worth the saw off. Totally. Anyone thinking otherwise has never been responsible for OL play. I guess in short I agree with your assessment that unless the difference would be vast post snap, take the guy that can actually snap the ball, and make the correct pre-snap read.
9 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:We draft & develop for other teams. We don't spend the money. We keep veterans who should be cut or retired & let the good ones go. Epecially om the OL. It's been happening for years
Who are these good young players we have been letting go? Definitely you are correct about the OL....we have seen an exodus....but who are these stud young guys you speak of that we kept a veteran over. I'll wait for your answer. Name the stud young player that is now somewhere else, and the veteran that should be cut that we kept instead. Wanna make broad statements like that, back it up. As for the OL, we didn't really keep veterans in place of young guys, it was vice versa. Did we move on from Brendan O'Leary Orange to keep Clercius/Woli/Demski....we sure did....which one of those guys should have been cut? That is quite literally the only drafted player I can think of that we let walk that I would want back if we could but apparently you have a list so let's hear it.
Would I want Desjarlais, Dobson, or Couture back? yea that would be nice. Two of those guys we lost due to very poor GM work and one to wanting to go home. That will always be a reality in the CFL with NAT players. Not a single one of those guys was moved on from in order to keep an aging vet that should be cut tho so you obviously have others to bring up.
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12 hours ago, 17to85 said:
What if he whiffs on blocks! What if the pocket collapses with him in there, what if the back gets stuffed! Of course how would we tell the difference because that **** is already happening. Guaranteed though that if Eli was in at centre he would be able to now and then move a ***** out of the way and help a play happen. Best we hope for with kolankowski is that he doesn't get flat out embarrassed.
And if it is worse then we stop wasting time on 2 players who shouldn't be there.
What I actually think it is, because they so regularly use 6 OL Eli isn't seen as a real option at centee because he's good as the extra OL whereas Kolankowski is useless at everything except snapping the ball.
Or he causes mass confusion because he can't direct traffic on the line and ends up getting our QBs injured. People judge centre by what they are seeing after the snap when a lions share of their importance is what they do pre-snap and with the snap itself. As for Kola, his issues are not in the run game at all. It's his weakness in pass pro that's the problem. Thing is that is also the weakness that Eli has demonstrated.
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16 hours ago, bigg jay said:
Yup. Eli may not be the answer at C but he has other uses. We're on year 4 of Kolo now & you can't convince me that he's the best we could have done in all that time. I don't know if it's complacency or what but they seem to be ok being mediocre at certain positions.
Not out of football, he's on his 3rd CFL team this year and is on BC's AR right now.
TE TEAM ACTION STATUS 2025-08-15 BC ADD FROM PRACTICE ROSTER Active Roster 2025-08-11 BC ADD Practice Roster 2025-07-16 OTT DEL Practice Roster 2025-07-11 OTT TRF TO PRACTICE ROSTER Practice Roster 2025-06-28 OTT ADD FROM PRACTICE ROSTER Active Roster 2025-06-17 OTT ADD Practice Roster 2025-05-10 MTL DEL Active Roster 2025-02-18 MTL ADD Active Roster My bad....didn't think anyone else would pick him up after his 2nd release. Point remains tho, he was a dud of a draft pick by any measurable.
15 hours ago, Booch said:Well....gm doesn't have any say in game day roster or who and how guts are used...so....doing the math.....
No call from upstairs? Happens all the time is what I heard.
13 hours ago, Goalie said:Considering Eli has been here since 2019 and kolo 2021, I somehow doubt it. I mean why? Cuz booch says so? I mean seriously. Why should Eli be better when every chance he was given he’s looked worse. College for Eli was a long time ago now. He’s not this prospect ppl like to pretend he is. He is what he is and what he is is a 6th lineman. Kolo ain’t it but Eli certainly isn’t either. Vibert is a center. Give him a shot. Or bring in an American one if you must cuz reality is if Vibert ain’t it then we currently don’t have anyone on the roster who is a good center.
I would not be against a ratio flip for an IMP C.
13 hours ago, Goalie said:I will say I didn’t realize the 4 year age gap tho. Didn’t realize Eli was 4 years younger than 33 yr old kolo. Give Eli a shot. He can’t be worse. If he is then let them both go. Seems the problems on the oline are in that 33 plus group. Bryant kolo Neufeld all struggling vets. Perhaps all cooked. I could live with growing pains if it means there is light at the end of the tunnel. It appears right now there is no light tho. Time to replace the struggling vets. Kolo Thomas Neufeld Bryant all need to be replaced. Now is the time to start doing it.
Bryant and Neufeld are not the problem with our OL at all.
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Just now, johnzo said:
how much of this is due to us consistently drafting late for years now because we've had a really good team?
Can't be sure, but other teams have leap frogged us in terms of NAT talent for sure. We've seen guys drafted behind our guys turn into bonafide CFL talent while we have first rounders like Anthony Bennett out of football.
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29 minutes ago, Booch said:
He's great in the big packages....havn't really seen him get a chance at center...some pre-season but really whopdeedo....throw to wolves and see, and then yeah agreed....if they both are the same and bottom teir....both shuld be sent packing a week after the Grey Cup...That goes for several other spots too..we need a roster reset and a bit of a movement away from the past....cause the last 3 yrs is proof the past is the past and aint coming back with some of these relics we cling to
I am not willing to put a sub par player in just because the guy ahead of him sucks. Rather cut bait on them both and our GM do his job.
34 minutes ago, Booch said:coaches probably also know Korn and Thomas are not particularly good either....explain that one lol....Tho Korn got the pine and rightfully so....Scmecker for now has earned that 2nd Cdn DT spot...But now lawson is back to full practice one would think he should bump Thomas off roster...we don't need 3 Cdn DT's....2 Dt's and an edge guy like Bailey would make more sense.....but will we see it?...doubt it...we either gonna waste a spot on another DT that really isnt impactful, or Schmeck gets bumped off...which would be a crime...Scmeck also has yrs of ball ahead of him....and upside....Thomas has neither....he's just basically in the way
We need an infusion of talent in a big way, particularly to our NAT depth which used to be the class of the league and is now second rate. I don't care how you cut it, that is on Walters. Could we tweak our lineup a bit and wring out a little bit more than one we have been getting? Possibly, but it is just putting lipstick on a pig.
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1 minute ago, Booch said:
I bet Wallace...Eli...Even Schmeck would do better.....Kolo has started to have more and more bad snaps...and he is utterly useless after initial engagement...he usually misses his block....loses the block...or gets roller skated into the QB's lap....and in second level....yikes.....I dunno how we can really fix that this yr....But something needs to be tried if for anything just to see.....but we wont
Nobody would have thought Speller would look like an all-star but he got thrust into action and was lights out in a Cup run...If you aint trying to get better...what the fcukk you doing?
Totally agree. Walters need to find a suitable replacement ASAP. What you won't convince me of, after watching him for 6 years, is that Eli is that guy. We really should cut bait on him too.
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3 minutes ago, 17to85 said:
The entire point is that we don't know if it is inferior or not because Osh won't give anyone a chance unless forced to.
Kolankowski if he's not the worst starter on the team is damned close to it and should be replaced. And if Eli isn't the guy to do it then he should be replaced too. We've seen Kyle Walters bring in players who can step in and play before. Based on each guys respective history I say Walters is fine at finding players, it's the coach who is bad at giving them chances and building a roster properly.
Eli has clearly demonstrated that he is not a particularly good OL. The coaches know this. This isn't some fresh faced guy, he's had numerous games under his belt and has been well below average in all of them. Why would anyone think he would be better all of a sudden? I get that no one is particularly impressed by Kola, and rightfully so, but change has to be for the better or why bother. Replacing an inferior talent with an inferior talent is not a particularly bright idea. If we want Kola gone then Walters has to get to work.
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1 minute ago, 17to85 said:
I watched kolankowski **** up a snap not 2 games ago... and I watched him do nothing of value on many other plays, and I watched his slow ass limit a run by Brady because he couldn't either get a block or get out of the backs way. Maybe he's better at snapping, but at this point maybe we need someone better at not being a guy who can snap and nothing else.
I agree, better would be good, now direct that anger at who is responsible for bringing in the talent. There seems to be a huge disconnect on this forum in that regard. Look, I'm not going to sit here and say that Osh doesn't make some poor roster decisions, but I will defend him when someone says we should bring in inferior talent just for the sake of change. That never works out. When someone better is behind someone and not being played the point is valid. However, you brought up Kola and Neufeld as examples of players taking up spots over better players in house. That is fiction.
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7 minutes ago, 17to85 said:
Bighill was useless in pass coverage too. Bighill got injured and it improved the D so how can you sit there and sat it was the best use of roster? It's a bright flashing sign showing how O'Shea's loyalty to certain veterans blinds him from making the best roster moves... so if we know it happens based on this one example we can ******* easily extrapolate that it happens to varying degrees at other positions.
It's pretty ******* telling when we can sit here on this message board in the offseason and basically nail the depth chart before camp even opens.
Yes, that surely does say something about Walters work doesn't it? You have to be off your rocker to think that coaches would rather lose than upgrade their roster. This forum sometimes.....
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6 minutes ago, 17to85 said:
And it took an injury for him to get the more substantial playing time which led to improved team performance.... and opportunity that wouldn't have been given without injury... and that's not the only position this sort of thing happens with. We're just not always lucky enough to have injuries at positions where they need to happen.
In a rotation with Bighill was the best use for him at the time and probably would have remained so if Biggie didn't get injured. Biggie may have been eclipsed in stopping the run by Jones, but he is a way better cover LBer than him on passing downs. That is a Jones weakness. I have defended Tony Jones all year here, and will continue to do so, because I think he is a decent MIKE but he was no better than Biggie on passing downs and in fact was not as good. Where we saw the real improvement was against the run where Biggie was struggling.
5 minutes ago, 17to85 said:This is less about how good Eli is and more about Kolankowski sucks, try someone else and if it's not Eli find someone else.
I agree on finding someone else. Like I said, I am no Kola fan. I just don't believe the answer is in house and that is on Walters.
5 minutes ago, Noeller said:I'm on the fence about Eli, but there is a HUGE NCAA vs CIS bias going on here (on MBB) in his favour... I tend to agree that if he actually was able to outperform Koala, he would have had a shot by now.
If Eli showed any ability to be a starting Centre he would have gotten a look by now. Sorry if some guys want to live on what we saw early in his career, but he never reached his potential.
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1 minute ago, TBURGESS said:
Eli's been around since 2019 and hasn't been promoted to starter yet. If you're basing your opinion on how he played way back in 2017 against college opposition, then you're out to lunch on your assessment of his current value.
I agree. He looked promising before he stepped away from football after 2019 but he has clearly not been the same player since.
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31 minutes ago, 17to85 said:
Tony Jones? Cause you and I know damned well that without injury bighill would still be starting for us despite a scrap heap pick up like Jones instantly improved play at the position.
Yes, a veteran guy we brought in and he definitely helped but he had a bunch of playing time prior to Biggie's injury already. We were using him on running downs in rotation at both MIKE and WIL.
32 minutes ago, Tracker said:We've had Eli, a college all-star center for several years, and a Canadian-status to boot, but O'Shea is O'Shea.
Eli has not shown the ability to play at a high level when inserted into our line up. What confidence should the coaches have in him after what he has displayed thus far? The guy has stunk when he has been put in as an injury replacement. I will concede that has not been at Centre, but the crux remains that you still have to show an ability to block even at centre.
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15 minutes ago, 17to85 said:
This is a terrible argument... teams in the cfl barely scout practise rosters of each other any more. Fact is their own American scouting is just as efficient. Hamilton is a great example. They hired a gm from the Bombers and he found a use.for tons of guys who didn't get as many opportunities here. Mostly with Americans you're looking at potential and it's the combination of opportunity and development that turn them into impactful starters. The crux of the issue here is that we never give guys those opportunities when there's an established vet in their way on the depth chart. It leads to stagnation.
Teams barely scout PRs of each other? Based on what are you saying this? Who says? I've seen umpteen examples of teams taking prospects released by other teams and getting good use out of them. We've had several players released by us get looks in other places only to be released by other teams. You are not arguing with facts in any way, shape, or form right now. You believe we are not giving players development? How so? Do you think that playing players that are not developed is the way to develop them properly? That is nonsense. Not one iota of your counter argument is grounded in reality.
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25 minutes ago, 17to85 said:
Neufeld was ass to start last season because he was hurt all camp.
And how can Eli earn a spot when he never gets a chance there? See you're still clinging to this false idea that you have that guys are starting because they are the best option and no one has pushed past them. That's demonstatively flase with this team...
How can you say that? Who has come in as an injury replacement and pushed a starter out lately? Can't think of one. Therefore you suggesting something is demonstratively false is completely opinion, and without any basis in fact to back it up. That is called opinion, not fact. That is arguing in bad faith. If you can give me some tangible facts, I am willing to reconsider my opinion but just saying this is the way it is based on nothing is not a particularly compelling argument.
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22 minutes ago, Booch said:
cant use that tho as a metric...Teams put time and money into their own recruiting and scouting....and won't dump their guys for others...thats how you also lose your scouting staff (Cyril Penn says hi)
I can see the thinking of that....but really it's a never will know...and for a lot of positions in the CFL players are pretty comparable across the board talent and skill wise....it's coaching and instruction that sets then apart....to even get a invite to even a CFL camp you gotta be able to play and have talent....and brains
So perhaps a lot of what ails us when we dont have a vet lineup in it's prime is our ability to coach and scheme effectively and get guys in right positions to be sucessful?....could very well be....Osh himself has said he at times has no clue whats going on in the locker room...and lets the guys sort things out themselves....maybe he needs to be more hands on now that he doesnt have the troops to self coach/police.....just spitballing but that is not out of the quation and making up a yarn
You can use that as a metric though, if we are passing on quality starting level talent other teams will gladly bring them in. Every team, no matter how much they scout, will not gladly take a quality player that slips through the cracks elsewhere. We've had numerous players that we've cut get looks elsewhere only to be cut again.
Bombers at Als early chat
in Blue Bomber Discussion
Posted · Edited by GCn20
No. It is not a disconnect, Shay/Smith are both capable of playing the WIL LBer spot in the future. Smith could even potentially be a S. What JBR is getting at is that there just aren't a ton of reps available that would be particularly suitable for rookies because our only consistent true LBer on the field is at MIKE and you don't throw rookies into the fray there until they are good and ready. WIL already is a very diminished role in our D, and you use your starter when it is only 40-50% of all defensive reps.
I know that everyone here is looking for reasons to dump on MOS, but we need to do better than grasp at straws. We are a 5-4 team, there's a lot to dislike right now and we are grousing over rookie play time, and the 51-53 spots of the roster. Why? Because it makes minor decisions seem a lot more major than what they are. If we want to talk coaching we have problems for sure, a lot of it is our coordinators.