GCn20
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Posts posted by GCn20
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32 minutes ago, wbbfan said: mbt, I think evans, couple guys in the same tier. I think it comes down to who takes a cheap deal first. That whole tier is a mixed bag with comparable value imo. Mbt is whacko, and I think his propensity to speak controversially to the media would hurt his chances here. Plus the fact we had him at his youngest and washed him out quickly. Tbh, I expect mbt to retire or maybe go to the ufl.
But any one of the meh tier veterans would be fine by me.
I believe that when MBT was released by us, someone in the press said an insider had informed them it wasn't due to his football ability. Take that for what you will as to what it means, but after a couple years elsewhere I formed a theory that many share.
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28 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said: According to a post on X by some NFL insider he said that Elgersma is under contract to Birmingham. He has his Visa & will report to them after his tenure with the NFL Combine is over. Still though, if he wants to earn playing time WTF is he dicking around throwing to college receivers this weekend? I just don't get the logic. The other 2 qbs, especially QB2 are getting more reps with Birmingham & diving into the playbook in qb meetings. Elgersma's missing out by throwing to NFL hotshot wannabees. His priorities seem all messed up.
Elgersma is up against two far superior 4 down QBs. He literally has zero chance in the UFL of starting. Makes no sense either way other than getting a paycheque while waiting for this mythical NFL interest to come around.
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20 minutes ago, ShyGuy said: Have their been any other NAT drafted players who have flirted with the UFL/XFL? AFAIK with Elgersma the only link is that they drafted him, I haven't seen any indication that that is where he is going to end up either.
21 minutes ago, ShyGuy said: Have their been any other NAT drafted players who have flirted with the UFL/XFL? AFAIK with Elgersma the only link is that they drafted him, I haven't seen any indication that that is where he is going to end up either.
I don't know league wide, but Liam Dobson did the full tour including wanting to play in the USFL before finally arriving here. We had the exact same conversations regarding his want to be here prior to him finally signing as we are having now with Elgersma. I believe we waited a full year before he finally signed. Had the USFL been able to get him a PVisa to play, we likely wouldn't have seen him in 2022 either. I am not sure the UFL is better at getting these visas for NATs now, and that is likely the reason we have not seen Elgersma in the UFL. Dobson had signed a 2 year contract with the USFL that was nullified when they couldn't secure him a PVisa. At the time the USFL contracts only allowed outs to the NFL. That's how close we came to losing a 3rd overall pick. The reason cited for choosing the USFL was that it was only 9k less than the NAT draftee rookie contract but had half the number of games, and wrapped up before NFL TCs.
This is the biggest notable draftee I can think of off hand, but I am sure there are others who have taken a similar approach prior to the CFL. Sage Doxtater and Paris Shand are other notable high picks that kicked around the spring leagues prior to the CFL. In Shand's case he just signed his first CFL contract recently.
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22 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said: Okay, maybe saying he "**** on the CFL" bordered on the ridiculousl. For that, I was wrong. I absolutely agree with your take, though The CFL is a league that just doesn't get why it isn't even mentiobned in a Toronto fan poll. The coaches & admin cap along with the rookie salary cap have to go. Why three years for Canadians & just two for Americans? These rules are strangling the CFL & not allowing for any kind of growth to take place. It also makes the CFL look bush league. Especially in Toronto, Calgary & Edmonton where fan support is apathetic. No exponential growth will happen until the league & the new Commish fix these meat & potato issues.
I get the league's want for cost certainty but it is ridiculous for that quest to be attached to coaching, and NAT draftees. NAT draftees, quality ones, are an issue in this league and having reduced capacity for quality coaching and recruitment just waters down our league's talent base as well. We increased our overall salary cap, yet we can't find a proper wage scale for valuable commodities like coaching and NAT draftees. It's, as you put it, bush.
5 hours ago, Pete said: No matter what the cap is, or exemptions there is no way a cfl team can compete with the nfl financially. It would just drive up payrolls
You don't have to compete with the NFL salary wise, but you can't pigeon hole a NAT draftee for 3 years of his career either. Guys will go to the UFL instead or take flyers on weak NFL interest. We've seen it, we are seeing it, it's a problem. It's not imaginary. The top of our draft classes are choosing to chase the NFL despite very weak interest in them. Elgersma is not the first high draft pick we've waited to go through NFL interest then the UFL before coming here.
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2 minutes ago, Stickem said: We must have seen something in Elgersma, when we took a flyer on him in last years draft.....What we saw is never mentioned by our management ,other than the ol 'potential assessment' and that was good enough to make him our pic.....Now that available talent in last years draft must have been petty thin to take a shot at the guy....Other than an arm, what has he proven in his nfl attempts....If his failed southern attempts to crack a line-up continue, and he still shows a reluctance to come north and still gives us short shrift, I think we might have another Mulumba pic on our hands.....In that case it was play CFL east or nada....We might have to write this one off .....
Elgersma has never indicated that he would only play CFL East. Mulumba had the advantage of having actually made money in the NFL, so the CFL was take it or leave it. Elgersma, if he wants to play professional, has one real choice and no money banked to play games about it. Not the same at all.
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15 hours ago, BBlink said: He's looking for his best pay day. Can't really blame him. I'd imagine Walters gave him a pretty low offer given how much money we threw around so far this off-season. I agree with 17to85. He's not here so whatever.
Unfortunately, our rookie NAT draft scale dictates what we can offer him....and it ain't much. So S27 may have somewhat of a point. He isn't shitting on the CFL per se, but he is definitely not interested in our NAT draft contract. It is a 3 year contract and pays peanuts, one way out is to stick on an NFL roster/PR for one season, after that teams can negotiate their own financial terms and this is a possible reason he is trying so hard to just get an NFL look....to avoid making 80kish a year for the next 3 years. Shitting on the CFL...nope...shitting on what he is forced to play for for a good portion of his career...quite possibly.
If I were a betting man, I would wager that if we could negotiate his rookie contract and compensate him even 150k a year to come on board he would be here.
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17 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said: Shouldn't Elgersma be at the UFL training camp or something? Now, he's dicking around Birmingham?? Lol. Yeah, he's starter material for sure.
He never signed in Birmingham, he was drafted by them but according to 3DN he never signed. If he is not there by now it seems to me that there is little chance he will be.
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33 minutes ago, wbbfan said: By serious, I mean some one will hand him a contract and pay him to show up to their camp, during which he will get 3rd-4th qb reps, play a couple pre season quarters, and if he is the 3rd best qb on the team they will put him on the pr after camp.
Not a camp invite, not TCF, but basically what a prio fa signing would get.
Thats his best case.
That's his best case, and that is a long shot.
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13 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said: How serious? I doubt he would get any opportunity but to be an extra training cam,p arm. The guy is in desperation mode. . Nathan Rourke had a dream game with the Falcons & what kind of opportunity did he get? Nothing.
I totally agree. Teams have their top 3 QB spots picked before TC even opens imo. Maybe there is an open competition sometimes for QB3 but even when that happens most of the time the winner is replaced by a recent TC cut from another team. UDFA QBs have a very tiny chance of sticking, one that was developed in the CIS...even less. Elgersma's only remote chance is that some coach falls in love with him for some reason, and that is highly unlikely.
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2 minutes ago, wbbfan said: Hes 28 though. And not the prototype like elgersma is. Or have the stand out pre season performance. It doesn't guarentee any thing, but at his age, he would get another look for sure.
Im really high on Bailey. He should've been on the roster most of last year. Not only can he be a good rotational piece, he's a good teams guy as well.
He will. A bit more polish down south and he might get here ready to be a qb3 going into a camp.
Elgersma didn't do much in that pre-season game. He ran a mostly high % short yardage passing game. The numbers look good but I watched it and he was nothing speclal. It was one read and out of his hands kind of stuff.
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1 minute ago, bearpants said: I wouldn't be surprised if the Bombers took a futures pick with 20 or 24... that's the range you take a "realistic" flier (like Elgersma)... especially with 9 total picks this year... round 6/7 is for the hail mary future pick... like Gio Manu
The thing is that you can only keep so many guys on the roster and futures can definitely be helpful sometimes when roster spots are limited. Is a 3rd rounder likely to come in and beat out any of your incumbents? That's the question you ask, if not then a futures pick can be the smart pick at that position. Lots goes into the equation, whats our roster makeup currently, what is our projection for our 2nd and 3rd year NATs? How deep is the draft? One shouldn't think that Elgersma is a flyer either. He is a guy chasing a dream that is going to end up here. A NAT QB with a high ceiling and a high probability of being in the CFL sooner rather than later is NOT a flyer. So, in short I agree with your assessment that rounds 3-4 you go realistic fliers, and then hail marys after that IF the draft is not deep or you don't want to draft someone just to have to release someone of equal talent already on your roster.
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4 minutes ago, Noeller said: I hated it then, and I hate it now. We had a chance at some real Right Now value and, right now, it seems like we pissed it away. Hopefully Elgersma pulls his head outta his ass...
Elgersma will be here eventually. You guys are getting panicked about nothing. Best thing that could happen for us is that he gets another NFL camp to develop.
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3 minutes ago, Stickem said: Walters yeah....but is the guy who just luvs his canucks also going over the talent ....I just hope we don't look at it as a 'throw away' pick like we did last year....We need all the help we can get NOW...I believe Elgersma was that pick in 25' ....just sayin'
I really don't mind if we reach with the extra pick IF it's for a guy that is a bubble NFLer. If we have to wait a year or two I'm OK with that.
- bb1, Blue-urns and rebusrankin
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24 minutes ago, Booch said: yeah he was very assignment sound and the perfect compliment kind of guy
Lawson is real good...And this yr with actually help not named Thomas beside him gonna eat...He was I believe one of...if not the top Inside guys in terms of pressures and collapsing the pocket league wide for Canadian DT's
Another totally under radar guy is Bailey who likely gets a roster spot this yr as rotation....the more reps he gets he gonna pop off the page alot..He has a real good combo of speed and power....Looking forward to his progression this yr
Bailey likely slides into the rotation for sure. Not sure he is a FT DE starter but will probably be a nice complimentary piece to our DL.
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12 minutes ago, Booch said: Jason Vega too until chronic injuries derailed him...actually was just chatting with him yesterday, looks like he could still play...pretty sure he not even 40 yet
thing is...even in that crap league he gonna be buried behind guys with U.S ball experience...Dude is just flailing at things now and is getting horrible guidance from his management team
Vega wasn't a great pass rusher but he did a lot of the other things really well. Yea...his career was way too short.
- Bigblue204 and Booch
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48 minutes ago, Goalie said: We need to find another Philip Hunt and even Tom Canada. Used to bring tons of strong DE and DL in but guess schemes changed? I dunno but hopefully a few of these guys step up and take jobs.
as for Elgersma, his US agent is a moron.
Jackson Jeffcoat was not chopped liver either
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6 minutes ago, wbbfan said: A whole lot, yeah. Maybe if he lights it up in the UFL he would get a serious look. Short of that or coming here and doing the same, I dont see it happening.
We have last year's UFL MVP coming to camp, that's how much lighting it up in the UFL is worth.
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Edited by GCn20
10 minutes ago, wbbfan said: it’s not an official combine invite thing, it’s an extra combine arm to be used as needed. If some one pulls out of throwing, gets hurt, or they need extra tosses and don’t want to over work guys.
A decent few qbs these days elect not to throw at the combine. Instead throwing in friendly confines to guys they know and can rely on. But this generally isn’t known until right before the combine or during. So you can end up in a position where you need a couple extra arms to do a full work out just to keep the wrs busy.
It is not like he’s going to have his performance graded and considered with draft prospects. It’s the most basic level of exposure to the nfl scouts you can get.
It doesn’t hurt him to take it, but he also isn’t riding it any place. It’ll still be if he can get reps in the ufl and the weight of the partial pre season game he had, that decides if he gets an invite to camp with some one. Or if there’s a mad rash of qb injuries.
It would take a lot of injuries. There are a crap load of former 2nd, 3rd, and PR QBs currently out of work that would get the call ahead of him. Heck last year the NFL even pulled Rivers out of retirement before they would look down their depth charts and FA's. Injuries is not a viable way into the NFL for Elgersma.
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16 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said: Elgersma is an NFL Combine arm just throwing the ball. Will he get looks? Who knows. I do know the other qb there was a 2021 draft pick. Will he get a look as well?
Over the last 10 years not one QB invited as a combine arm has been in an NFL training camp the same year.
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22 minutes ago, wbbfan said: TC the media was pretty negative about how raw he was. But he did perform very well in his preseason look. If it wasn't for that pre-season game, he never would have gotten another NFL call.
Let's be honest....the NFL hasn't exactly beaten down his door. A couple workouts to stay in the good graces of his agent probably. For the life of me I can't believe he can't see the forest through the trees yet. Does he seriously think he's going to be the first CIS QB to crack an NFL roster, in what...like a hundred years? someone is blowing sunshine up his arse and he is eating it with a spoon, and that is unfortunate.
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9 minutes ago, wbbfan said: Pass rushing does require development. Especially in the CFL. You will see flashes of disruption without it, but the skill gap for most guys' pass rushing is huge.
That's a big part of why DL get paid, and DBs don't.
I do agree the promise is very strong with Jenkins, Jaworski and Bailey. And to an extent, DL who want to excel have to put in a lot of extra work themselves in the off-season. Coaching DL is a very highly sought-after skill set, and the NFL has been focused on cornering that market for a while.
We don't get polished rushers with good size and athletic ability coming up here anymore. Mostly we get raw guys with a ton of talent/athleticism that need to be moulded into something special. And a few higher polish guys who either lack a lot of size or athleticism.
In Jake We Trust
The learning curve is small for the DEs and DTs, sure there are some nuances they can pick up, but if a guy can disrupt he can display that very early in his CFL career. We have not had anyone of that ilk up here in years. Will a bonafide DT/DE get better over time, for sure, but if a guy can't display the basics of the pass rush right off the bat there is no use wasting out time and we haven't and other teams have occasionally tried our guys out after we release them or don't re-sign them and have come to the exact same conclusion. Bunch of ham and eggers. Our recruitment needs to be a crap load better on the DL. That being said, the guys we brought in late last year show some actual promise. Instead of pretending that duds like Fox and Garbutt were somehow reasonable starters. Rotational AT BEST, and we need starters and not just starters IMPACT starters.
Had we "developed" them properly that was the ceiling for them.
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10 minutes ago, Booch said: You have to tho look at the talent and competition he was competing against tho in the CIS and the speed of the flow..and how quickly he can process things...its a huge gap from there to just NCAA ball..let alone pros...hes proven nothing
And in all honesty...based on his appearance and many a player..even really bad ones get looks...some several on just that alone.
The fact he held down zero weeks on any PR with 32 teams in the NFL..many with utter garbage as their 3rd on depth chart...let alone PR tells you something...
U ready my mind and beat me to the punch!
If he was truly legit hed have played prep ball in HS down south at least his senior yr and would never been on a CIS field
I think he showed some really good stuff in NFL TC. That being said, he is undoubtedly a project and anyone thinking he is our starter next year is really optimistic. I hope he is because that would be something, but I would be shocked if he were ready and that is presuming he comes here this year first.
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27 minutes ago, wbbfan said: My hopes for developing DL are greatly reduced by the poor job we've done developing DEs over a very large period of time.
At the pro level they have to perform. DE, DT shouldn't require much for development. We just had crap recruiting in these areas. In one game we saw more promise out of Jaworski and Jenkins than any of the garbage we've recruited at DE over the past several years. I don't mean to crap on the young DEs over the years, but anyone we brought in was either unable to get home, or unable to play the run. The DTs were slightly better but certainly nothing worth keeping around as starters.
I just don't think our recruiting was looking for a typical DE, seems like they favored a tweener type that just wasn't working for us.
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Having Ceresna will certainly help in the disruption department. If two of our rookie DE's can show they are ready for a starter/rotational roles that would be very helpful as well. I really like what Jaworski did in his only showing last year. He is the guy I will be very interested in watching in TC. That probably gives him the kiss of death, but so be it.
- rebusrankin and Stickem
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Blue Bombers -- 2025/26 Offseason -- Discussion Thread
in Blue Bomber Discussion
Your amounts are a complete red herring. I'm not going to argue ZC wasn't overpaid..he was..but basing it solely on hard money not total contract is not even remotely proof of concept