GCn20
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Posts posted by GCn20
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23 hours ago, rebusrankin said:
Which two premium nats are making it to free agency do you think?
There will be several. Always is.
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1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:
Oliveira was the heir apparent to Harris. It was obvious that he was losing it as he got older. He definetly lost a step at the end of his career. We don't have an heir apprent ar RB or QB. If we let him walk then we'll have another huge hole. Yes, you will lose STH's as we'll lose more than win. Just look west to Calgary. They let their veterans leave. They went from a team drawing 25-30000 a game to 12000-19000 a game. Fans were pissed off. I see the same scenario here starting to happen with the Bombers if Brady leaves. .
I guess we differ in our belief of how important BO is to us winning.
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16 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:
You need to keep your star players. Someone like Brady is needed to sell tickets. If he leaves they could lose as substtantial amount of STH's. Other teams have kept their marquis players. Walters has to figure it out.
They won't lose a substantial amount of season tix. We didn't when Harris left town and we won't if BO does. Losing games does that, not losing players.
If we use that money to sign players that excite and help us dominate again we will be standing room only again
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12 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:
Well, the reality is if you don't pay then you lose. If you were a GM you'd be fired in your third year (standard contract) as your team is losing. It's all about winning. And prioritizing whjo you sign. Taking the money designated for Jake Thomas & giving it to someone else in order to keep another..
Not how it works at all. I agree you take Jake's money and reassign it. What you don't do is grossly overpay at any position.
We could spend gobs of money on 12 guys and have 40 others on rookie contracts and win exactly zero games.
The most successful teams since SMS started have been vigilant about not overpaying.
If letting BO go allows us to sign 2 other premium NATs thats just smart GMing
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30 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:
You guys are dinosaurs living in 2021. Salaries are going up & so is the cap. As a team, if you don't go along with it then you lose out. Every team will have to pay as they have marquis players they want to keep. There are players fans belleve don't deserve the $$$ they are asking for but will get it elsewhere.
Not a dinosaur at all...just good at math. It's an SMS world and it doesn't matter if the cap goes up. When a player is overpaid significantly it weakens the team.
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2 minutes ago, blue85gold said:
He talks about it but there's no number in that article.
Doesn't want to be top 3, so all the means is less than $600K.
Big difference between $450K and $590K
He got a bump for sure. Unless his agent is the worst in the world he would have to have gotten one.
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3 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:
Counter point on Brady (I agree on the cost over replacement argument), he's a premium Canadian talent and we are really lacking in that area.
Agreed. Which is why I have stated as a caveat to what I am saying that if we are not signing him that money must go directly to upgrading our starting NATs at skill positions or on the OL. The number for BO being bandied about right now is 300k. If we do that we are blowing our brains out on SMS.
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20 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:
No kidding, Brady loses touches if we're behind. All running backs have that happen. It doesn't mean that we don't pay. Oliveira's a tank. He responds to more work. So, if we have a lead in the fourth qurter, we unleash the running attack & he controls the game wearing down opoosition defenses. Last year, we had a dumbass OC who never used him properly all season long. Like I said, we lose Oliveira it's a clear sign that this is a cheap organization. That they don't spend any money, on other teams or on our free agents. One other question, just what is astronomical when it comes to salary with Lawler, Hatcher, Zach, Harris, & Philpott??
Cost over replacement. That is what makes his cost astronomical. Other RBs at 150k put up very similar numbers to BO last year. I agree Zach is currently overpaid as many QBs in a QB driven league are. Apples and oranges. What makes Lawler, Hatcher, and Philpott different? Cost over replacement. You can't replace the impact those 3 have for any cheaper. BO you can. That's not a slight on BO, just the historical fact when it comes to RBs both in Canada and the NFL. They play a position that there are more good RBs than there are teams to play for. You are trying to employ the same supply and demand across all position groups to justify BO's money and that just is not reality.
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Just now, wbbfan said:
100%. This is the best contract situation he's been in in ages, and very, very likely his last ever contract. But I don't think he will end up with a stupid deal.
This whole off-season is gonna end up like the wild west anyway. Montreal is maybe the most frugal of the successful teams today, and they just spent like drunk sailors. I think every premium FA that hits the market is going to get silly money, and every team will likely have a none qb earning nonesensical money. I don't know why I ever thought teams would do anything different with the cap increase. It's the CFL, of course, they are going to spend like drunk sailors on leave.
Previously, I thought Brady should be under 220k-ish. Maybe a bit of incentive money on top of that. I'm starting to think that line should be around 235-245k, maybe 250k. Still much more than I'd like to pay for an RB, even if he ends up being the best Canadian back ever (and I think he will.) But I think the market for guys like that is going to jump. If Philpot, etc, reset the market with the increased cap, someone may well offer Brady 280-320k. If he hits free agency, I don't think he will be back. Really makes me curious to what guys like demski, kramdi and allen will get.
Im not willing to go a dollar over 250k for BO, and that is stupid money, but he's a home town guy. Honestly, I don't like mega contracts for RBs in the CFL. It's not a running league. The ONLY time a RB should be compensated like that is if you have a young QB just starting out, or you have a QB like Chris Streveler that is weak in the passing game. My objection to BO's contract with us is that it makes the two men standing behind centre too expensive. If we had a 350-400k QB....great let's do it.....but with a 600k QB you just can't make your behind centre tandem 900k of your cap.
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1 hour ago, Tracker said:
With the O-line he had, he was fortunate to get back to the line of scrimmage.
Not true. Our OL graded out very well in run blocking, it was pass pro they sucked. Look at the PFF numbers for run blocking for our OL. It sucks but BO just wasn't up to form for a lot of last year. I think part of that was the injury he sustained early in the season but he was definitely not the usual BO last year.
56 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:And/or at times OC not being disciplined, patient enough to stick with the run and be a bit more creative with it?
Scheme was too predictable for sure.
2 hours ago, Booch said:anytime your center gets spun around and more times than not is facing yhour QB....With guys in front of him...or going bu him...not a good sign....same with a dt getting spun to the side and again...more times than not his back to the QB and guys just sashaying by....not a good sign....both those are indicators of minimal talent if any...and weak players....and basically describes our two positions perfectly
And makes sense as Kolo is an undersized unathletic center with short stubby arms, and JT is a uber unathletic guy, no technical skills/hand skills and weight he carries...grossly overweight has no benefit to him and his play...it's more a detriment to him
With Lawson..Adams...Woods...Even Schmeck you saw no evidence of that...Same with Eli...and I disagree...he was hardly a matador, but that being said...he is a center and has nary had a chance to play....but hen he did he was just fine...and with more reps would settle right in...Is very athletic...not undersized...and actually has technique
I am NOT advocating for a return of Kola. Just not sure Eli is the answer either. Vibert? maybe.
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18 hours ago, Booch said:
I'd be fine with him....I almost think if not for his not being able to be here at TC...it woulda been him....cause choosing Dimbass over him made and maked zero sense...Unless Osh is just as much a dumbass...and at times from what he does...jury is still out on that notion
Jackson knows how to best utilize skill-sets of players too
I think he'd play close to what he was with 15 to 20 snaps....all out in true DE attack mode...we dont need him as a knockdown guy...pressures...sacks....strip sacks...hurries would be a lot more of a net benefit to the overall defensive performance than knockdowns....who's to say those passes weren't gonna be completed...or even intercepted....but a sack...forced fumble...pressure into a forced throw for a pick.....is a quantitative positive and many a time...drive killer if not game changer
I don't mind him thinking pass knock down because he's so good at it, what I don't like is that it seems to have become his default.
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18 hours ago, Booch said:
not on this team with this HC...nope....have to disagree with that...and not just with Eli situation
Not sure what you have seen in Eli to have such faith in him. He has been a matador whenever inserted into the starting group.
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11 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:
We got hosed or did Hogan hose Oliveira? How many games was Brady Oliveira underused & even forgotten? He's still the best running back in the CFL. If we lose him then it just tells me that nothing has changed with the club.
When playing from behind BO loses touches. However, in the games where we got behind early part of it was because he didn't run well. Is he the best back in the CFL? Could be, but not by much and he's paid as if he is almost twice as good as everyone else. He isn't and that's the problem. This isn't about BO's ability, it's about whether he is worth his astronomical salary.
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15 minutes ago, Booch said:
yeah we kinda did...and the last 2 yrs...he's been dealing with injury issues...trend?..anomaly?...hard to say but his big price, and the fact if he goes down there will be a huge drop off in production if we refuse to go import there...I just dunno
Sure we can 6 game him and not absorb the cost, but his huge salary, along with ZC's 600k...still on books and affects who else we sign before even the first snap of TC...We gotta go young and trust in the scouting and eject salaries of Gauthier..Kolo..Thomas..Kramdi (as he is the lesser of Nichols and Holm in our bloated secondary salary mess)......Hallett...Wilson...Even T.Jones.
We have inhouse guys already on entry level deals for most part to cover all those guys, plus a possible draft gem or 2...and I would think some of the new scouting staff guys brought on last yr will have more beefit this
We can go minimal salary in several areas and be able to be very proactive with both lines, and a legit WR....
I think a lot of our 2nd year guys should be ready to step up into more active roles for sure.
8 minutes ago, Booch said:Thing is...we only need 7 true starter caliber Candadians....so if you do 3 on the oline...2 receivers...and 2 at anytime on defence you can easily navigate the sms..this trying to make 9...10 guys a thing with sub par talent in a good 3 of them for most part is just dumb...not to mention costly
There are a lot of quality Canadians that are gonna be free...and some that wont necessarily break the bank either, but we need to have open mind and be willing to change who we play and where as our Canadians
Agreed. Spend the wad on a tier one NAT OL, preferable a centre (not sure if there any available) and add QUALITY NAT depth. Draft well, develop better. These are going to be some key areas for us this offseason and season in general. Not a great idea to get rid of Kramdi right now. His contract isn't prohibitive and even if we platoon him we can get our money's worth. We gotta get away from our current DL NAT usage and keeping Kramdi is going to be a necessity in that. We can platoon our young NATs at WIL, and platoon Kramdi at SAM and this will allow us the flex we need to not pay BO the outrageous numbers we are hearing. We need to keep as much NAT roster flex as we can because if Neuf is back it's a roll of the dice, and Lawson/Thomas/Schmek hurt us if we gotta go there again. If another young NAT steps up into a viable starter/platoon guy then we revisit it next season. This, of course, predicates on us getting Kramdi back at a reasonable contract again.
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5 minutes ago, wbbfan said:
We should have our OC in place before Ott or Tor announces theirs. If we fail that, we are in big trouble. Early January should be the goal.
Talk to guys, conduct interviews, take the holidays to think about it, and make the offer right after. Then announce it by the week of the 9th.
That's my thinking as well. Things are going to slow down a bit because holidays do that. But we need our guy by 2nd week of January and that is a likely timeline unless we do something within the next 10 days.
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2 minutes ago, sweep the leg said:
Depends what we do with the rest of our roster and who our Canadians are. We need to play them somewhere. If we want better Canadians on the ol or at rec we’ll have to pay through the nose for them.
We’re in some trouble right now with our Canadians. Only two of them were good last year and they’re both fas looking for raises. We really need to hope our young lbers can step up and we hit a home run in the draft.
An extremely valid point. We can't let high calibre NATs walk out the door without spending those savings on other high quality NATs. Walters did an abysmal job of this over the past 3 years and needs to wake up in that regard. We have seen a mass exodus in overall talent without replacement at NAT, and really all positions. I don't want BO back on a boat anchor of a contract, but I don't want his savings not used properly either.
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If you give a CFL calibre 20+ touches a game they are going to rack up big yardage. I love Brady ball, but I don't think Brady is our only option to do it with. This last contract my heart was happy but my head said it's a terrible contract. This time both my heart and my head say it's a bad idea. Sorry Brady, but your attitude over the last year was not to my liking.
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24 minutes ago, wbbfan said:
Imo, 20% chance we announce the OC before january.
I agree. Highly doubtful, January is prime time for most coaching hires outside of HC.
2 hours ago, rebusrankin said:If we don't have an OC by Christmas, I will be concerned.
I will be semi concerned if we don't have anyone in place by Jan. 9.
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13 hours ago, Booch said:
Yup...agree...id add interior dline to that too...
I agree also that BO is beneficiary of system to a good extent...especially with lotsa touches...he isnt a guy who is a home run hitter from anywhere on field and could score from anywhere..anytime...but is one of best in a while to slug it out tenderize defences all game...love the guy but if he is looking for more than what he got last deal...I just think it may hinder us
A 250k+ contract to a running back, ANY running back, is going to hinder any team unless they put up MOP calibre numbers and clutch performance. We got hosed on his contract last year.
- Stickem, Booch and rebusrankin
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12 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:
That won't happen if Younger stays at DC. This is his defense with the personnel he wanted doing what he wants them to do. It's strange the way he used WJ. Our DL could be so much better. It's his decision not to do it the way it normally would be done.
I don't pretend to try to explain how Younger uses his personnel & why. All I know is we don't presure qbs anymore. Out interior DL is a joke which affects our Ends. We don't get the pressure we used to when Richie Hall was DC. With Hall, it all started with a vicious Front 4. With Younger, he seems to build from the back end out. The best athletes play in the secondary & it flows up to LBers & finally to the DL which is a no pressure Front 4. I don't like it & I'm not convinced Younger is really all that good as a Coordinator.
Yup, let's just repeat the same mistakes again.... If we don't have an OC in place in 5 or 6 weeks then we can declare that the talk of change & introspection was just that... talk... while nothing has changed.
What mistakes are being repeated? We are fans, getting angry on a forum isn't going to do anything. If we don't have an OC in place by your timeline then for sure we can be worried. I agree. However, we cannot know what will happen until it happens.
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3 hours ago, Pete said:
Riders gonna not be happy, price for Emilus just went up
Emilus will be 250k+
3 hours ago, sweep the leg said:Haven’t you been advocating to let Oliveira walk over money?
BO is the beneficiary of an offensive system that is far too run heavy. There I said it.
3 hours ago, Booch said:within reason I guess I should have said...we let guys walk where we could have absorbed what they left for
If you look back I wasn't really a fan of BO's first deal either...That position is one where you shouldnt be sinking 230+ k into
250k+ for BO. Price over replacement is the formula I like to use and BOs salary makes no sense at that equation whereas Philpott's is closer to an accurate amount but still a slight overpay.
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48 minutes ago, wbbfan said:
Have to clarify, WJ didn't play a Lber hybrid or jack role. He hasn't had a straight drop back to even shallow LBer depth in many years here. (Remember when he used to do that and really disrupt passing lanes?)
He's basically been spying the QB on inside pass lanes. Idk if that has ever in football been a thing out side of the last few years with WJ. He doesn't spy qb for contain, and he doesn't play both passing lanes. Like a man-to-man shot blocker in basketball. Not the weak side guy rotating over to get a block, he gets tall keeps his feet and tries to get in the way of the ball going right at him.
If he could do a lot more with any kind of regularity, we would see him jumping pass lanes from the back side of pursuit on roll outs, getting to the outside shoulder of his ol and batting down backfield pass attempts from the pocket, and frankly getting off the initial block significantly more. Even when he turns it on in the games he excels in now, he is beating his blocker with moves and cuts. He isn't blowing by guys around the edge or any thing.
You are correct on his usage, I just likened it to a LBer type role because it is probably closer to that than DE and it doesn't really have a term associated with it because it is unusual. Definitely not true LBer for sure, but definitely not DE either. Just weird usage. Not sure why. Could be declining skills but he rarely gets to straight rush anymore at all. Perhaps, they should get back to giving him those opps.
25/26 CFL (Non Bombers) Off Season Thread
in Blue Bomber Discussion
Posted
Not much of one. 509k is what he is worth. Not a discount. At the end of the day he's a 40+ year old QB. That comes with considerable risk to his team despite performance.
I can agree with that. If we see a massive increase to actual SMS for player salaries then numbers change accordingly