Politics (Split Thread)

[kelownabomberfan]

Its not just lazy people choosing to flip burgers unto their 40's.  Many of those people have very limited options.  Those are the people Im talking about.  The people that choose to do the best they can instead of being on welfare or crime or whatever.  People who maybe had tough lives, were born into tough situations.  Maybe never received the education needed to advance past a certain point.  But they work hard, are trust-worthy and loyal.  Should they make $6/hour at age 40 after 20 years?  I dont think so.

 

It happens.  Trust me.

 

One of the companies I worked for was a manufacturing company that employed skilled and unskilled people.  The owners offered all kinds of incentives to the unskilled types to learn a trade or increase their skills through training programs, so that they would be able to earn higher salaries.  Nope.  No way.  They were stuck earning a wage that meant that they were scraping by, and that's where they wanted to stay, unskilled and trapped earning low wages, rather than put in even a minimal effort to learn something new and have a broader skill set.  I didn't understand that mentality, and still don't, but that's how some people are.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

Its not just lazy people choosing to flip burgers unto their 40's.  Many of those people have very limited options.  Those are the people Im talking about.  The people that choose to do the best they can instead of being on welfare or crime or whatever.  People who maybe had tough lives, were born into tough situations.  Maybe never received the education needed to advance past a certain point.  But they work hard, are trust-worthy and loyal.  Should they make $6/hour at age 40 after 20 years?  I dont think so.

 

It happens.  Trust me.

but the thing is, they have opportunities to improve themselves if they want to put in the work. Go get educated, find an entry level job with some upward mobility. Work in a field that pays higher without a lot of skills required. This country is great because you CAN improve your situation if you want to. Tough life? No education? Just excuses when it comes right down to it. The people who do the best in this country are the ones who know what they want and have the drive to go out and get it. 

 

For some yes.  For others, easier said than done.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

Its not just lazy people choosing to flip burgers unto their 40's.  Many of those people have very limited options.  Those are the people Im talking about.  The people that choose to do the best they can instead of being on welfare or crime or whatever.  People who maybe had tough lives, were born into tough situations.  Maybe never received the education needed to advance past a certain point.  But they work hard, are trust-worthy and loyal.  Should they make $6/hour at age 40 after 20 years?  I dont think so.

 

It happens.  Trust me.

 

One of the companies I worked for was a manufacturing company that employed skilled and unskilled people.  The owners offered all kinds of incentives to the unskilled types to learn a trade or increase their skills through training programs, so that they would be able to earn higher salaries.  Nope.  No way.  They were stuck earning a wage that meant that they were scraping by, and that's where they wanted to stay, unskilled and trapped earning low wages, rather than put in even a minimal effort to learn something new and have a broader skill set.  I didn't understand that mentality, and still don't, but that's how some people are.

 

Perhaps they have underlying disabilities you dont know.  There is an enormous amount of people suffering from varying degrees of FASD.  Many undiagnosed.  Others may lack the confidence or have anxiety disorders.  Its not as simple as "everyone who is under-paid and under skilled is a lazy SOB who wants to be that way".

[17to85]

 

 

Its not just lazy people choosing to flip burgers unto their 40's.  Many of those people have very limited options.  Those are the people Im talking about.  The people that choose to do the best they can instead of being on welfare or crime or whatever.  People who maybe had tough lives, were born into tough situations.  Maybe never received the education needed to advance past a certain point.  But they work hard, are trust-worthy and loyal.  Should they make $6/hour at age 40 after 20 years?  I dont think so.

 

It happens.  Trust me.

but the thing is, they have opportunities to improve themselves if they want to put in the work. Go get educated, find an entry level job with some upward mobility. Work in a field that pays higher without a lot of skills required. This country is great because you CAN improve your situation if you want to. Tough life? No education? Just excuses when it comes right down to it. The people who do the best in this country are the ones who know what they want and have the drive to go out and get it. 

 

For some yes.  For others, easier said than done.

 

Who said it was easy? Fact remains though if someone wants it they can get it. It makes it more of an accomplishment. If it was easy everyone would do it rather than being content to coast by at their minimum wage job. Life is about choices and finding out where you want to be. If you're happy to coast by in a minimum wage job that's a choice you've made. If you want to do better than that and do what is required to do better that's another choice you've made. Why should people who choose to work minimum wage jobs get a hand out at the expense of people who chose to make something more of themselves?

[Atomic]

 

 

 

Its not just lazy people choosing to flip burgers unto their 40's.  Many of those people have very limited options.  Those are the people Im talking about.  The people that choose to do the best they can instead of being on welfare or crime or whatever.  People who maybe had tough lives, were born into tough situations.  Maybe never received the education needed to advance past a certain point.  But they work hard, are trust-worthy and loyal.  Should they make $6/hour at age 40 after 20 years?  I dont think so.

 

It happens.  Trust me.

but the thing is, they have opportunities to improve themselves if they want to put in the work. Go get educated, find an entry level job with some upward mobility. Work in a field that pays higher without a lot of skills required. This country is great because you CAN improve your situation if you want to. Tough life? No education? Just excuses when it comes right down to it. The people who do the best in this country are the ones who know what they want and have the drive to go out and get it. 

 

For some yes.  For others, easier said than done.

 

Who said it was easy? Fact remains though if someone wants it they can get it. It makes it more of an accomplishment. If it was easy everyone would do it rather than being content to coast by at their minimum wage job. Life is about choices and finding out where you want to be. If you're happy to coast by in a minimum wage job that's a choice you've made. If you want to do better than that and do what is required to do better that's another choice you've made. Why should people who choose to work minimum wage jobs get a hand out at the expense of people who chose to make something more of themselves?

 

 

"If it was easy everyone would do it"

 

"If it was easy everyone would do it"

 

"If it was easy everyone would do it"

 

One of my favourite quotes.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

 

 

Its not just lazy people choosing to flip burgers unto their 40's.  Many of those people have very limited options.  Those are the people Im talking about.  The people that choose to do the best they can instead of being on welfare or crime or whatever.  People who maybe had tough lives, were born into tough situations.  Maybe never received the education needed to advance past a certain point.  But they work hard, are trust-worthy and loyal.  Should they make $6/hour at age 40 after 20 years?  I dont think so.

 

It happens.  Trust me.

but the thing is, they have opportunities to improve themselves if they want to put in the work. Go get educated, find an entry level job with some upward mobility. Work in a field that pays higher without a lot of skills required. This country is great because you CAN improve your situation if you want to. Tough life? No education? Just excuses when it comes right down to it. The people who do the best in this country are the ones who know what they want and have the drive to go out and get it. 

 

For some yes.  For others, easier said than done.

 

Who said it was easy? Fact remains though if someone wants it they can get it. It makes it more of an accomplishment. If it was easy everyone would do it rather than being content to coast by at their minimum wage job. Life is about choices and finding out where you want to be. If you're happy to coast by in a minimum wage job that's a choice you've made. If you want to do better than that and do what is required to do better that's another choice you've made. Why should people who choose to work minimum wage jobs get a hand out at the expense of people who chose to make something more of themselves?

 

You cant possibly believe that every person working a minimum wage job is just making the choice to not better themselves. 

[kelownabomberfan]

 

 

Its not just lazy people choosing to flip burgers unto their 40's.  Many of those people have very limited options.  Those are the people Im talking about.  The people that choose to do the best they can instead of being on welfare or crime or whatever.  People who maybe had tough lives, were born into tough situations.  Maybe never received the education needed to advance past a certain point.  But they work hard, are trust-worthy and loyal.  Should they make $6/hour at age 40 after 20 years?  I dont think so.

 

It happens.  Trust me.

 

One of the companies I worked for was a manufacturing company that employed skilled and unskilled people.  The owners offered all kinds of incentives to the unskilled types to learn a trade or increase their skills through training programs, so that they would be able to earn higher salaries.  Nope.  No way.  They were stuck earning a wage that meant that they were scraping by, and that's where they wanted to stay, unskilled and trapped earning low wages, rather than put in even a minimal effort to learn something new and have a broader skill set.  I didn't understand that mentality, and still don't, but that's how some people are.

 

Perhaps they have underlying disabilities you dont know.  There is an enormous amount of people suffering from varying degrees of FASD.  Many undiagnosed.  Others may lack the confidence or have anxiety disorders.  Its not as simple as "everyone who is under-paid and under skilled is a lazy SOB who wants to be that way".

 

 

So then let's all admit that there are many complex issues underlying the situation.  It's not as simple as saying everyone is lazy, and it's also not as simple as saying that everyone should be making only minimum wage so that no one is elevated above anyone else.

[17to85]

 

 

 

 

Its not just lazy people choosing to flip burgers unto their 40's.  Many of those people have very limited options.  Those are the people Im talking about.  The people that choose to do the best they can instead of being on welfare or crime or whatever.  People who maybe had tough lives, were born into tough situations.  Maybe never received the education needed to advance past a certain point.  But they work hard, are trust-worthy and loyal.  Should they make $6/hour at age 40 after 20 years?  I dont think so.

 

It happens.  Trust me.

but the thing is, they have opportunities to improve themselves if they want to put in the work. Go get educated, find an entry level job with some upward mobility. Work in a field that pays higher without a lot of skills required. This country is great because you CAN improve your situation if you want to. Tough life? No education? Just excuses when it comes right down to it. The people who do the best in this country are the ones who know what they want and have the drive to go out and get it. 

 

For some yes.  For others, easier said than done.

 

Who said it was easy? Fact remains though if someone wants it they can get it. It makes it more of an accomplishment. If it was easy everyone would do it rather than being content to coast by at their minimum wage job. Life is about choices and finding out where you want to be. If you're happy to coast by in a minimum wage job that's a choice you've made. If you want to do better than that and do what is required to do better that's another choice you've made. Why should people who choose to work minimum wage jobs get a hand out at the expense of people who chose to make something more of themselves?

 

You cant possibly believe that every person working a minimum wage job is just making the choice to not better themselves. 

 

in a lot of cases it's true. Sure there's some people who have some type of handicap but for someone with an able body and mind it really does come down to whether or not they are motivated to do more than flip burgers all their life.

[Mark H.]

 

A large chuck of North American prosperity is on the backs of working poor in other countries.

Mark - I've toured factories (known as "sweat shops" to guilt-laden liberals) in Egypt, Myanmar and Cambodia. I can tell you this - if it wasn't for us horrible North Americans buying up goods manufactured by these "working poor" from these countries, they wouldn't be "working poor", they'd be dead and starving poor. When it comes down to options for these people, it's work in these factories, or sell their bodies. It's that basic. When I was in Myanmar, I asked what the skilled ladies running the machines were making, and they told me $5 a day, which of course, given the North American mindset, made me recoil in horror. But then they told me that these ladies were really well-paid, given the cost of living was low enough that they had money left over to help support their families. My guide in Myanmar told me he could feed his whole family, including wife, parents and kids, on $50 a month. So I gave him a tip of $50 US so he could feed them all for a month. He showed me his house, which was by North American standards just plain awful - no electricity, bamboo walls etc. but he and his wife were happy. Could it be better? Yup. But that's the thing. We'd be hurting these people much much more by boycotting their products then by continuing to buy them. They are extremely happy to have jobs, which wouldn't exist, without us horrible exploitive evil North Americans. It's a process, and it takes time.

 

The reality is, it's not possible for everyone to live the way most North Americans do. I realizes it will take time, but we actually need to be happy with less so they can have a little more. 20% of the world's population consumes 80% of the resources.

[Atomic]

 

 

A large chuck of North American prosperity is on the backs of working poor in other countries.

Mark - I've toured factories (known as "sweat shops" to guilt-laden liberals) in Egypt, Myanmar and Cambodia. I can tell you this - if it wasn't for us horrible North Americans buying up goods manufactured by these "working poor" from these countries, they wouldn't be "working poor", they'd be dead and starving poor. When it comes down to options for these people, it's work in these factories, or sell their bodies. It's that basic. When I was in Myanmar, I asked what the skilled ladies running the machines were making, and they told me $5 a day, which of course, given the North American mindset, made me recoil in horror. But then they told me that these ladies were really well-paid, given the cost of living was low enough that they had money left over to help support their families. My guide in Myanmar told me he could feed his whole family, including wife, parents and kids, on $50 a month. So I gave him a tip of $50 US so he could feed them all for a month. He showed me his house, which was by North American standards just plain awful - no electricity, bamboo walls etc. but he and his wife were happy. Could it be better? Yup. But that's the thing. We'd be hurting these people much much more by boycotting their products then by continuing to buy them. They are extremely happy to have jobs, which wouldn't exist, without us horrible exploitive evil North Americans. It's a process, and it takes time.

 

The reality is, it's not possible for everyone to live the way most North Americans do. I realizes it will take time, but we actually need to be happy with less so they can have a little more. 20% of the world's population consumes 80% of the resources.

 

 

What you don't realize is they have to take more, we can't give it to them.  There are countries that have risen out of "developing" status and it wasn't due to North American handouts.  It was due to finally getting good leadership and finding ways to thrive.

[Rich]

 

 

 

A large chuck of North American prosperity is on the backs of working poor in other countries.

Mark - I've toured factories (known as "sweat shops" to guilt-laden liberals) in Egypt, Myanmar and Cambodia. I can tell you this - if it wasn't for us horrible North Americans buying up goods manufactured by these "working poor" from these countries, they wouldn't be "working poor", they'd be dead and starving poor. When it comes down to options for these people, it's work in these factories, or sell their bodies. It's that basic. When I was in Myanmar, I asked what the skilled ladies running the machines were making, and they told me $5 a day, which of course, given the North American mindset, made me recoil in horror. But then they told me that these ladies were really well-paid, given the cost of living was low enough that they had money left over to help support their families. My guide in Myanmar told me he could feed his whole family, including wife, parents and kids, on $50 a month. So I gave him a tip of $50 US so he could feed them all for a month. He showed me his house, which was by North American standards just plain awful - no electricity, bamboo walls etc. but he and his wife were happy. Could it be better? Yup. But that's the thing. We'd be hurting these people much much more by boycotting their products then by continuing to buy them. They are extremely happy to have jobs, which wouldn't exist, without us horrible exploitive evil North Americans. It's a process, and it takes time.

 

The reality is, it's not possible for everyone to live the way most North Americans do. I realizes it will take time, but we actually need to be happy with less so they can have a little more. 20% of the world's population consumes 80% of the resources.

 

 

What you don't realize is they have to take more, we can't give it to them.  There are countries that have risen out of "developing" status and it wasn't due to North American handouts.  It was due to finally getting good leadership and finding ways to thrive.

 

 

I didn't see him ask for handouts. It is a reality if every nation were to elevate itself, regardless of the reason, we would have to have less for that to happen as our source of cheap labour would be gone.  And would our economies accept that or would it fight to keep them down?

[Atomic]

Hmm okay I understand.

[Fatty Liver]

 

 

I totally agree.  It was meant to be an exaggeration.  That fellow that pooped himself in front of us was obviously not indicative of the median standard for our "enhanced" society, but that being said, when some brain-washed leftist tells me that no one should be elevated above anyone else, where's the bottom line then?  What's the standard?  That's where I get a million different opinions from these people.  I had one English major tell me one day that no one in Canada should make over $75,000.  Anything above that should just be "given" to the government.  And she is telling me this with a straight face.  Like good grief, Lord help us all if our country's tax policy is ever handed over to English majors.  Yet if you look at Norway's tax policy, they almost have such a system in place, in that if you make over $100K in Norway, you get to keep almost none of the money above that $100K mark.  And that's a sure-fire way to encourage stagnation, as the best and brightest leave your country for greener pastures elsewhere.  And rightly so.

 

As for a more common story, my neighbours next door to me won the inheritance lottery and were able to buy the house next door.  The mom, grown adult son and grown adult daughter all live together, and all are on welfare.  The only time I see the son when he's not video-gaming is when he is outside lighting up a joint.  When I ask the mom if the kids are going to get a job or go to school, I am given the mantra that "it's really hard to find work out there" and "the kids don't really want to go to university".  Of course not.  They can survive on the government teat, so why go and make something of their lives?  Meanwhile, the grass in the back yard is 3 feet high because they refuse to mow it (I wrecked my mower last year trying to mow it for them) and the fence is crumbling.  These are the kind of people that take advantage of our already extremely generous social safety net.  It bugs me to no end that somehow idiots can claim that Canadians don't have enough empathy, or should be more like crappy countries like Norway.  Canadians spend billions of dollars every year propping up people like my neighbours, who make enough off the government to not even bother trying to find work.  I think that there should be some sort of way of monitoring able-bodied people who are perpetually on welfare, as they just have no incentive to ever go off of it, if there is no one telling them they have to.  That's not right.

 

Much better example.  I see you is angry for good reason.  People who slide by on welfare have low expectations and often are content not to try to better themselves.  A sliding scale of decreased monthly payments might give some of them a spark, there are enough unemployed people to replace every T.F.W. in the land.

[Mark F]

However you figure it out,

 

there are at least one billion people who don't even  have access to clean water. They are so desperate, that they drink sewer water. There are

 

women and children in Africa who spend most of their time, carrying water in pails that we would throw out.

 

 and on and on. 

 

When someone figures out the "system" that will correct that problem, I'd like to see it.

 

 

There is no system that is immune to greed.

 

This is what the Pope is talking about. We need to change what we value. 

[Atomic]

Bottom line is too many people have been given fish and not enough have been taught to fish

[Fraser]

However you figure it out,

 

there are at least one billion people who don't even  have access to clean water. They are so desperate, that they drink sewer water. There are

 

women and children in Africa who spend most of their time, carrying water in pails that we would throw out.

 

 and on and on. 

 

When someone figures out the "system" that will correct that problem, I'd like to see it.

 

 

There is no system that is immune to greed.

 

This is what the Pope is talking about. We need to change what we value. 

 

I think the fact that North American Greed is somehow responsible for this is a great fallacy.

 

We didn't create the caste system in Eastern Asia.

 

Consumerism didn't create a brutal dictator in resource rich countries that uses all his royalties to stock an army that keeps the people at bay, That is when foreign people are actually investing without fear that their investment will be nationalized with no recourse.

 

There are poor countries that times of crisis after a natural disaster have refused non monetary aid and spend the monetary aid on the army to further oppress their people

 

There are basic things needed in order for economic growth the occur, infrastructure, property rights, a legal and efficient banking system. Lots of countries don't have administrations that values these things. They prefer to a policy of oppression and corruption. Frankly I don't see how a North American can cause that by leasing a BMW, enjoying a latte or shopping at the mall. I don't think its what we value in North America that is causing that.

[Mark F]

 

 

 

I think the fact that North American Greed is somehow responsible for this is a great fallacy.

 

 Frankly I don't see how a North American can cause that by leasing a BMW, enjoying a latte or shopping at the mall. I don't think its what we value in North America that is causing that.

 

 

Guess I wasn't clear, sorry, 

 

I didn't say, or mean "North American" greed.  I don't consider it to be a problem only of North America. The problem of greed is world wide.

 

One of the richest men in the world is from Thailand, he's worth fifty billion dollars. A country where you can buy anything including organs, and people.

 

That's greed. 

 

In fact, of the first ten richest people in the world, a number of them are literally Kings of countries that are filled with paupers.

[Fraser]

 

 

 

 

I think the fact that North American Greed is somehow responsible for this is a great fallacy.

 

 Frankly I don't see how a North American can cause that by leasing a BMW, enjoying a latte or shopping at the mall. I don't think its what we value in North America that is causing that.

 

 

Guess I wasn't clear, sorry, 

 

I didn't say, or mean "North American" greed.  I don't consider it to be a problem only of North America. The problem of greed is world wide.

 

One of the richest men in the world is from Thailand, he's worth fifty billion dollars. A country where you can buy anything including organs, and people.

 

That's greed. 

 

In fact, of the first ten richest people in the world, a number of them are literally Kings of countries that are filled with paupers.

 

 

All of the world's richest people are dictators. They just don't make forbes cause A) its all hidden/unverifiable  Thats not what people  want to read about in forbes

I don't know how the pope wagging his finger at the general 1st world population does anything about that.

[Mark F]

There's something wrong with the way the world is being run, when one billion people can't get disease free drinking water. 

 

In Nigeria, elected officials have taken billions of dollars of money from state owned and sold oil, for themselves.. something like 20 billion…. Lagos is the world's largest slum.

 

I think the problem is  greed. 

 

that's all I'm saying.

[Taynted_Fayth]

i saw a fb what are they called meme's? anyways its said, tired of ppl making like 12 million dollars to make a movie telling me to donate when i make $12 an hour.  very few ppl got rich by helping the needy, and i'd image very few would part with their fortunes after they made. I dont know if I'd necessarily call it greed, I mean if i come into money I got no problem buying the buddies im with a few rounds,  but itd be stupid for me to look after the whole bar's needs.

 

As far as im concerned throwing money at problems is only a quick fix,  itd be far more responsible to invest in proper education and training first and foremost for countries/regions in a constant problematic state to learn how to be proactive in prospering once that money train ends.  examples i can think of in the top of my head would be poverty in africa, they should be investing in education on farming and spending money to overhaul the soils and such if the current state is unable to be cultivated. But you probably face warlords and pirates hijacking that **** constantly.  In our own backyard,  victims of residential schools, clearly experienced and went to hell and back,  and our government just threw money at them hoping it was "good enough" rather then investing in proper psychiatric help these people needed first and then assist financially. Cuz just like all the money donated to africa, and for so many survivors of the residential schools, just throwing money instead of responsible spending has done wonders (sarcasm).  

 

I think its easy to wag your finger at a capitalist society if they aren't helping the less fortunate, but if everything was equal wouldnt we be then communist? 

[Fatty Liver]

In most cases you will find that poor people reside in areas where the earth is also poor.  The kings of Saudi Arabia were nomads that lived in tents before the discovery of oil.  In Canada we are incredibly lucky to have a small population and vast natural resources to exploit.

[kelownabomberfan]

In most cases you will find that poor people reside in areas where the earth is also poor.  The kings of Saudi Arabia were nomads that lived in tents before the discovery of oil.  In Canada we are incredibly lucky to have a small population and vast natural resources to exploit.

 

We are also incredibly lucky to have a political and economic system in place designed to ensure that the majority of the wealth generated by the exploitation of resources goes back to the people.  Some will say that it's not enough, but those people I find will always say it's not enough, even if the number is 100%.  What you have to understand is the mentality of a lot of the rest of the world.  When I was Egypt for instance, I was trying to explain the concept of universal health care to people there, even ones who couldn't speak English and were dirt poor.  Even the ones who lived hand to mouth, liked the idea of free health care, but when they asked me who paid for it, and I said "everybody, via taxes", they'd shake their heads and say "no way, I'm not paying for my neighbour's health care, I'm not sick so I shouldn't have to pay".  The entire concept of sharing resources is just lost on a lot of the world.  Everyone is conditioned to take whatever they can, and screw everyone else.  Dog eat dog.  And until that cycle changes, you are going to have giant slums and huge chunks of the population sitting in filth and squalor.  Travelling through Myanmar, I couldn't believe that so much of the rural population doesn't even have electricity, because the generals there just steal everything, leaving almost nothing for capital infrastructure.  Same goes in Egypt, in pretty much every tinpot dictatorship in Africa, in Cambodia, Haiti, you name it.  Zimbabwe is a crying shame.  They were a first-world country only 40 years ago, and now thanks to Mugabe, they are one of the poorest, while he dines on lion and elephant at a $2 million birthday party.

[Fatty Liver]

Right on, one of the biggest problems with Greece is that the Greeks don't want to pay any taxes and will do anything to avoid them.  Big hurdle to get people to "buy in" to essential steps neccessary to improve their society as a whole when their culture has always been, dog eat dog.

Canada is not immune to this problem as detailed in the following story. One of the wealthiest neighbourhoods in Canada located in Richmond also ranks high on the poverty index due to unreported income.  Wouldn't have anything to do with 6 out of 10 Richmond residents being born in countries other than Canada, would it?

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/why-is-richmond-neighbourhood-with-many-expensive-mansions-also-one-of-the-citys-poorest&pubdate=2015-06-15

[Taynted_Fayth]

I cant completely disagree with people not wanting to pay into a health care system, if they themselves aren't ailing. strikes me as a high risk high reward kind of system in gambling with the if/when you'd ever need it.  It would interesting to know what the average person in say a 10 year span pays into health care tax wise, and how much that person actually uses it during same time and what the fees incurred would be against that amount paid.  Of course in places where poverty, disease and violence are rampant I think free health care would end up costing the people way more in taxes as a whole or the government would go broke with how much is being used vs how much they'd bring in money wise.

 

In a place like the US where you pay through the teeth for medical care, how much goes to the government? or are their hospitals and doctors self governing with those payments to look after themselves?

[kelownabomberfan]

Right on, one of the biggest problems with Greece is that the Greeks don't want to pay any taxes and will do anything to avoid them.  Big hurdle to get people to "buy in" to essential steps neccessary to improve their society as a whole when their culture has always been, dog eat dog.

Canada is not immune to this problem as detailed in the following story. One of the wealthiest neighbourhoods in Canada located in Richmond also ranks high on the poverty index due to unreported income.  Wouldn't have anything to do with 6 out of 10 Richmond residents being born in countries other than Canada, would it?

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/why-is-richmond-neighbourhood-with-many-expensive-mansions-also-one-of-the-citys-poorest&pubdate=2015-06-15

Income tax is the best way to ensure income equality in any country. Any country where the people, especially the extremely wealthy, don't pay much if any tax, the country is a complete ****-hole. Greece is a great example. How those bozos snuck into the EU I'll never know, as the Germans etc. should have known they'd be the weakest link, and drag down the entire EU with it. And I like how the Greeks decided rather than pay back what they owe, they just voted for the guy that said he would never pay any of it back. Brilliant.

We are extremely lucky to live in a country founded on principles where everyone is supposed to have a shot at a win, if they give it an honest effort and learn some skills. The hopelessness of some of the people I've met in other countries is really depressing, as they are stuck in a corrupt system designed for them to lose, 100% of the time.