bigg jay Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I wouldnt say he whooped his butt, more so as it paid tribute to Obi Wan being as good, he did eventually strike down Obi Wan. But his arrogance and impulse caused his defeat initially to Obi Wan, ignoring common sense that Obi had the higher ground Did he? Or did Obi Wan take a dive? Obi Wan basically stopped fighting once he saw Luke was watching, and turned off his light saber as Vader took his final swing. Vader didn't seem to know what was going on either as he kicks Obi Wan's cloak around almost to see where the hell he went. It was a stalemate up until that point. Atomic and Logan007 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigg jay Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 would be cool if they had a bit of a ranking chart or something for Jedi we know of and where they rank. I know they often say Yoda was one of the best with the force, Mace Windu with a light sabre, but where do guys like Obi Wan rank? add sith in there too just for kicks Obi Wan was more known for his diplomatic skills (hence the nickname The Negotiator) than his swordsmanship or force skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taynted_Fayth Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I wouldnt say he whooped his butt, more so as it paid tribute to Obi Wan being as good, he did eventually strike down Obi Wan. But his arrogance and impulse caused his defeat initially to Obi Wan, ignoring common sense that Obi had the higher ground Did he? Or did Obi Wan take a dive? Obi Wan basically stopped fighting once he saw Luke was watching, and turned off his light saber as Vader took his final swing. Vader didn't seem to know what was going on either as he kicks Obi Wan's cloak around almost to see where the hell he went. It was a stalemate up until that point. yet another plot hole as to Palpatine telling Anakin he can show him ways of the force the jedi would never if he wanted to save Padme from a future death. and if Vader was so wtf how did he become a ghost as well, did Obi Wan double dip and speak in Vaders helmet the whole time he was mentoring luke ominously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taynted_Fayth Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I thought it was kind of implied, maybe even stated that as anakin, or even Darth Vader pre-suit, he was much stronger, but once the suit was on and he was basically on life support with the suit, his power while still strong, werent nearly there, but the absolutely darkness of Vader (killing younglings for example) was what offset the balance in the force. Luke being healthy had the full power the emperor originally saw in Anakin and that was why he became adamant he join them, and the prophecy of restoring the balance now laid with the Luke and not his father as originally assumed. So maybe itd be like Vader (pre-suit) > Obi Wan Vader (w/ suit) = Obi Wan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 The "high ground" is one of the most idiotic laughable things in any movie in the history of film making. It literally made no sense. Like because Obi Wan was standing on higher ground, it made it impossible for Anakin to successfully leap over him? How stupid. How friggen stupid. Lucas didnt know how to write a fight where Obi Wan would beat the strongest jedi. Logan007 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I thought it was kind of implied, maybe even stated that as anakin, or even Darth Vader pre-suit, he was much stronger, but once the suit was on and he was basically on life support with the suit, his power while still strong, werent nearly there, but the absolutely darkness of Vader (killing younglings for example) was what offset the balance in the force. Luke being healthy had the full power the emperor originally saw in Anakin and that was why he became adamant he join them, and the prophecy of restoring the balance now laid with the Luke and not his father as originally assumed. So maybe itd be like Vader (pre-suit) > Obi Wan Vader (w/ suit) = Obi Wan? The prophecy was still true. Anakin did bring balance. He eventually destroyed the Sith. What the Jedi didnt know was that he would end up destroying them too. And if you think about it, wasnt that truly bringing balance? Both sides were destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taynted_Fayth Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 well he didnt kill luke and leia who both have the force, Lukes the only one awakened tho, but that still leaves the scales tipped imo. Maybe this new movie answers that starting with the Helmet issue, theres still Vaders apprentice behind the scenes. with the fall of the empire and Sidious n Vader both dying at same time, would have been foolish to come out in the open at the end of Jedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 well he didnt kill luke and leia who both have the force, Lukes the only one awakened tho, but that still leaves the scales tipped imo. Maybe this new movie answers that starting with the Helmet issue, theres still Vaders apprentice behind the scenes. with the fall of the empire and Sidious n Vader both dying at same time, would have been foolish to come out in the open at the end of Jedi What apprentice? If you believe the Rule of Two (another poor concept in practice), then Vader would not have had an apprentice. I think the puppet master in TFA might be a very old Sith, someone that was aware of the Emperor, perhaps his master at some point and someone to whom the rule of two dont apply. It would be interesting if they do a sort of switch whereas the wide-eyed Luke went to see an very old Jedi for guidance, perhaps a wide-eyed dark force user goes to see this very old Sith for guidance. Im curious as to who will be the ruler of the empire though. There must be someone. They clearly have a government of some sort still, armies etc. There must be a command & control leadership. In one shot of all the Stormtroopers, you can see a cloaked figure standing on a stage in the background but cant make out his face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 well he didnt kill luke and leia who both have the force, Lukes the only one awakened tho, but that still leaves the scales tipped imo. Maybe this new movie answers that starting with the Helmet issue, theres still Vaders apprentice behind the scenes. with the fall of the empire and Sidious n Vader both dying at same time, would have been foolish to come out in the open at the end of Jedi Luke wasnt the same kind of Jedi as the originals were though. And who knows, maybe he gave up being a jedi once the Emperor was killed. Leia wasnt a Jedi at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taynted_Fayth Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I dont think they were referring to a Jedi vs Sith balance, but just the force itself thats all around us, like how they could sense a disturbance in it. But maybe if more ppl with the force were good than those who use the dark side of it, itd be off balanced too. If luke and leia were left with the force, it could count a balance if there was still 1 sith master 1 apprentice as for the rule of 2, how long is someone an apprentice before their own master? i know Vader still served the emperor but thats a frickin looooong time lol. i dont know if theres an apprentice for sure, im just saying that was with Anakins desire to over throw the emperor with padme and then again with Luke, maybe there was more ppl he turned to prior to Luke in the time between episode 3 - 4. Palpatine had both Anakin and Maul as his apprentices granted 10 years apart, but that had more to do with Palpatines plan, Anakins internal conflict and Jedi interference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Well lets be honest, the Balance of the Force was a convoluted mess of an idea that Lucas made up to sound smart. It didnt jive with the originals but it sounded nice in TPM. It actually sucked because it made TPM too on-point in its portrayal of Anakin. Like its not enough that the kid has massive midichloriian counts or that was seemingly conceived by the Force itself and had incredible piloting skills but he also MUST be the subject of some goofy prophecy? It would have been better if he was just a regular Jedi that we knew turned bad but no one else knew of him to be anything special other than being very skilled. Like the council admits that something is clouding their ability to see clearly AND a sith appears after generations AND the subject of this prophecy shows up who exhibits emotions that give Yoda pause and the idiot council still trains him? Ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I dont think they were referring to a Jedi vs Sith balance, but just the force itself thats all around us, like how they could sense a disturbance in it. But maybe if more ppl with the force were good than those who use the dark side of it, itd be off balanced too. If luke and leia were left with the force, it could count a balance if there was still 1 sith master 1 apprentice as for the rule of 2, how long is someone an apprentice before their own master? i know Vader still served the emperor but thats a frickin looooong time lol. i dont know if theres an apprentice for sure, im just saying that was with Anakins desire to over throw the emperor with padme and then again with Luke, maybe there was more ppl he turned to prior to Luke in the time between episode 3 - 4. Palpatine had both Anakin and Maul as his apprentices granted 10 years apart, but that had more to do with Palpatines plan, Anakins internal conflict and Jedi interference He also had Count Dooku. its a silly concept really. The idea that evil guys never trust each other so there is only ever two...well Palpatine seemed to have a lot of control over his apprentices. And why would Vader go along with turning Luke to replace him? Is he that dense? Just stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacquie Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 but maybe leia was talking about senator organas wife who acted as her mother on Alderaan ?? Leia said she was very young when her mother died. Senator Organa and his wife didn't die until the Death Star destroyed Alderaan from what I understand. Bail Organa didn't die until the Death Star destroyed Alderaan, but nothing was ever mentioned about when her mother died. I looked her up in a couple of Star Wars wikis and apparently there was a trading card set from Topps that said she died when Alderaan was destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnzo Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I dont think they were referring to a Jedi vs Sith balance, but just the force itself thats all around us, like how they could sense a disturbance in it. But maybe if more ppl with the force were good than those who use the dark side of it, itd be off balanced too. If luke and leia were left with the force, it could count a balance if there was still 1 sith master 1 apprentice as for the rule of 2, how long is someone an apprentice before their own master? i know Vader still served the emperor but thats a frickin looooong time lol. i dont know if theres an apprentice for sure, im just saying that was with Anakins desire to over throw the emperor with padme and then again with Luke, maybe there was more ppl he turned to prior to Luke in the time between episode 3 - 4. Palpatine had both Anakin and Maul as his apprentices granted 10 years apart, but that had more to do with Palpatines plan, Anakins internal conflict and Jedi interference He also had Count Dooku. its a silly concept really. The idea that evil guys never trust each other so there is only ever two...well Palpatine seemed to have a lot of control over his apprentices. And why would Vader go along with turning Luke to replace him? Is he that dense? Just stupid. Vader hopes that Luke will turn to the dark side so they can team up and destroy the Emperor. Then they will become a new father-son Sith duo. Vader makes this offer explicitly in Empire. The Emperor hopes to replace Vader with a younger, fresher apprentice. Like wants to turn his father back to the Light Side while staying frosty himself. The Emperor messes with this by unleashing the new death star on the rebel fleet and hoping this will provoke Luke into dark side fury. It makes sense to me. Jesus Christ am I arguing about Star Wars on the internet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bb.king Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Stupid, nit-picky thing that still bugs me about the end of Episode III. When Padme is dying the medical droid says to Obi-Wan and Yoda that they must work quickly to save the babies. Obi-Wan and Yoda are surprised when the droid says "babies". 1. With all their advanced force powers they couldn't sense that Padme was having twins? 2. Even if they couldn't sense it with the force, with all the highly advanced medical technology they have didn't Padme ever have a freakin' prenatal exam??!! My wife and and I would have known months in advance if we were going to have twins with all the scans we had done. And that's with our comparatively stone-age medical technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacquie Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 ^^ That is one of the reasons why Star Wars should be called a space fantasy and not science fiction. Here's a short video of Neil deGrasse Tyson on science in Star Trek and Star Wars: http://www.tmz.com/videos/0_fcv887vq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Maybe the force was hiding one of the twins. When Luke tried to strike down the emperor in anger, Vader stops him. Had vader just let him, things would have turned out differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 ^^ That is one of the reasons why Star Wars should be called a space fantasy and not science fiction. Oh god are you one of the people who thinks there should be a difference? To me that is a ridiculous idea that science fiction and science fantasy should be separate because there's less sciencey sounding mumbo jumbo in one. Atomic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan007 Posted April 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I've read that Darth Plagius actually was the one that released the force that impregnated Shmi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan007 Posted April 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Ihated his age in TPM as well as the pod race. Obi wan stated that when he met Anakin he was already an accomplished PILOT. Not a damn pod racer. What they should have done was make him similar to Luke in that he was a pilot for some fleet or something. I agree with you TUP. He should have been much older. Would have been more in line to how Kenobi described him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan007 Posted April 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 This coming from someone who has Beeker as his avatar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacquie Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 ^^ That is one of the reasons why Star Wars should be called a space fantasy and not science fiction.Oh god are you one of the people who thinks there should be a difference? To me that is a ridiculous idea that science fiction and science fantasy should be separate because there's less sciencey sounding mumbo jumbo in one. Star Wars is pure fantasy. There is very little science in it and using sciencey sounding mumbo jumbo doesn't change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Star wars is science fantasy. Star Trek is science fiction. Big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 Star wars is science fantasy. Star Trek is science fiction. Big difference. yeah we'll just re-route whatever we need to through the main deflector dish and solve all our problems. GIve me a break. Star Trek is as much fantasy as Star Wars is. The real difference between the two is that Star Trek, at least the original series and the early years of next generation were really focussed on examining humanity. Trying to separate science fiction and science fantasy is pointless. sci-fi, fantasy, horror, all these things are just window dressing. It's the stories that make a difference. Star Trek being an episodic tv show has a different focus than star wars which was always intended to be a space adventure. MOBomberFan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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