Jacquie Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Biggest problem I had was in Episode 2 when Anakin slaughtered the Sand People to avenge his mother's death. No shift in the Force - he shouldn't have still been a Jedi after that. And then he tells Padme about it and she has absolutely no reaction to the news and tries to console him. It was a WTF moment for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacquie Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 but maybe leia was talking about senator organas wife who acted as her mother on Alderaan ?? Leia said she was very young when her mother died. Senator Organa and his wife didn't die until the Death Star destroyed Alderaan from what I understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I always took that to mean that leia was remembering some sort of force imprint. Did padme touch her face when she was born? Yoda did know. He acted that way because he was testing Luke. The plot hole is, TPM taught us that Jedi must be trained from toddlers. Anakin was considered too old and he was, what, 8? Why did yoda and Ben wait so long to train Luke? Before the prequels that wasn't a problem. The prequels made it a problem. The answer could be they were waiting for the force to choose Luke but it's still silly. And why Luke and not leia who was intimately involved galactic politics and in a better position to strike down vader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacquie Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Just watched a clip of the birth scene on YouTube and it was Luke's cheek she touched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Well then. I wonder if that was intended to infuse him with mlre force power or something. My theory would have been better. She should have touched leia thus her remembering her "sad" mother. I also never liked that Padme died of a broken heart. Nice mother there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan007 Posted April 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 but maybe leia was talking about senator organas wife who acted as her mother on Alderaan ?? Leia said she was very young when her mother died. Senator Organa and his wife didn't die until the Death Star destroyed Alderaan from what I understand. Bail Organa didn't die until the Death Star destroyed Alderaan, but nothing was ever mentioned about when her mother died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan007 Posted April 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I always took that to mean that leia was remembering some sort of force imprint. Did padme touch her face when she was born? Yoda did know. He acted that way because he was testing Luke. The plot hole is, TPM taught us that Jedi must be trained from toddlers. Anakin was considered too old and he was, what, 8? Why did yoda and Ben wait so long to train Luke? Before the prequels that wasn't a problem. The prequels made it a problem. The answer could be they were waiting for the force to choose Luke but it's still silly. And why Luke and not leia who was intimately involved galactic politics and in a better position to strike down vader. Exactly, that's what was absolutely stupid for me. How was Luke too old at...what, 20? And Anakin was too old at 8. I couldn't stand the actor that played Anakin. I actually wished they had used someone older, maybe teenagerish. Especially since Obiwan stated "When I met your father, he was already a great pilot" or something like that. So what did Lucas do...made him a pod racer. Uggh...what a way to ruin the story. And Jar Jar...I just wanted to punch the screen last night when I saw him talking. WHY....WHY GOD WHY!!?!?!?! But yeah...you and I have the same views on this crap. I wish they would eventually reboot the prequals...even if it was just making it one movie instead of 3, just so we could erase the atrocities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Lucas became all about making movies for kids and merchandising. Not to mention, he flat out was a lousy writer. He worked on the originals so long that eventually a somewhat coherent story came out but even if you look at some of his earlier treatments, it's garbage. He lucked out. And two people saved Star Wars: Lucas' wife who edited the films and made them coherent. And Lawrence Kasdan who wrote the scripts and made sense of Lucas' garbage. Never in the history of entertainment has one person made so much money with so little talent than George Lucas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan007 Posted April 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Well then. I wonder if that was intended to infuse him with mlre force power or something. My theory would have been better. She should have touched leia thus her remembering her "sad" mother. I also never liked that Padme died of a broken heart. Nice mother there. Agreed about Padme dying of a broken heart. That was just lame. What they should have done was have some kind of love triangle thing happening between Anakin and Padme and Padme and Bail. Or something that would have had her giving birth, then going and being with Bail instead and dying shortly there after when Leia was a toddler or something and leaving Leia in for Bail to raise. I dunno...something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan007 Posted April 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Lucas became all about making movies for kids and merchandising. Not to mention, he flat out was a lousy writer. He worked on the originals so long that eventually a somewhat coherent story came out but even if you look at some of his earlier treatments, it's garbage. He lucked out. And two people saved Star Wars: Lucas' wife who edited the films and made them coherent. And Lawrence Kasdan who wrote the scripts and made sense of Lucas' garbage. Never in the history of entertainment has one person made so much money with so little talent than George Lucas. George is a fantastic CGI/special effects guy. Leave him in charge of that kind of stuff, and you'll come out a winner. But as far as writing stories. He's got good ideas, but he can't seem to put them down on paper without help. Indiana Jones or Star Wars. Even Speilberg kept asking George throughout the filming of IJ4 "so you really want to do aliens?". What I find hilarious is that he keeps stating that The Phantom Menace is for kids...yet...what child understands politics and trade federation blockades? I mean...WTF?!!? OMG, I just want to stop thinking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taynted_Fayth Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I was under the impression all these years that Lucas has all 6 episodes written out when he approached 20th century fox, but due to it uncertain viewer response he was only allowed to make Episode 4 as a stand alone cuz it was able to be a clear cut good vs evil, good wins with the destruction of the Death Star. then the trilogy was green lighted by its success. Like mentioned in the Fuller House thread, with such a long hiatus, todays kids wouldnt have the same connections people born in the 80's or previous would and cant really blame Lucas to try and create something for them. failed, but i can see why he added waste of space like jar jar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taynted_Fayth Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 problem with the love triangle is I'm sure Darth Vader, or one of the Emperors newly appointed generals would have personally gone to Alderaan at some point(s) as they would Cloud City. Be it to speak with the sovereign rulers or to kill them. If anakin could sense his mother in danger from across the galaxy and recognize the force with a next to not trained Luke and dormant Leia on Hoth from his ship, I'm sure his connection with Padme would out her presence on Alderaan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Lucas likes to put forth the myth that he has all six written. Where he got that from is the changes he made to A New Hope during the story phase. He made so many changes and has so much garbage written down that it was enough for 20 movies. So in his mind, he had all this back story. The truth is, he had no idea who Vader was until into Empire production and he had no idea Luke and Leia were brother & sister either. He was just making things up as he went. He's one of these powerful people surrounded by synchophants and no one was going to tell him his stuff sucked. And supposedly the idea that his wife was more important to the originals' success than him was a very sore point. I had no problem with Anakin killing Padme in a fit of rage within the story that was being told. The idea that he injured her but not critically and she just died because Anakin was evil even though she implored Obi Wan that there was still good in him...well it was stupid as it gets. The entire fall of Anakin made little sense, happened to easily and relied on everyone being very very stupid. In the originals, the really evil things were done by others, not Vader and that allowed us to believe in Luke when he was determined to turn Vader good. When Vader is dying and says they were right about him, it was a feel good moment. Then you watch the prequels and its like...uh excuse me? He betrayed the Jedi, killed CHILDREN, hunted down the rest of the Jedi was the final catalyst for all the pain and suffering the Emperor inflicted on the galaxy. And we're supposed to be okay with his redemption? What redemption? That he also wanted to betray the Emperor and rule the galaxy himself? He was perfectly happy to help turn his son to the dark side...but didnt want him to die? Why, because it would mean he would keep serving his master? I remember people suggesting that the reason Vader *had* to serve Palpatine was because the Emperor was using his immense force powers to keep Anakin alive. I liked that because it explained why "nothing can stop" his death in Return of the Jedi and it would make him more sympathetic overall. It would have also made Palpatine's remarks about learning to cheat death somewhat of a foreshadow in that he was enticing Anakin with a way to ensure his loved ones never died but in reality used his power to keep the critically injured Anakin enslaved to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taynted_Fayth Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Ill kind of do a point by point thing here; - I find it incredibly hard to believe Lucas, or 20th Century Fox would agree to putting "Episode 4" on new hope without any kind of episode 1-3 previously in creation, vs just going Star Wars: A New Hope, Star Wars II: Empire Strikes Back, Star Wars III: Return of the Jedi. If Lucas wanted it that way so he could backtrack one day he could have easily gone with Clone Wars: The Phantom Menace, Clone Wars II: Attack of the Clones, Clone Wars III: Revenge of the Sith and put a little Star wars saga logo in small print above. He might have been all over the place and some story lines revised after the original trilogy was out there, but its just too much to think there wasn't some sort of back story even if it wasn't exactly what ended up on screen - a lot of books to screen adaptations change. - The babies needed to be born, and Anakin does say she was alive when he left her upon hearing the news she died, that could just be subtle things that added to Vaders turn that was lied to by his master. - Anakins fall wasn't that easy, Yoda didn't want him from the get go, not due to his age but the anger and fear in him coming from slavery and his mother still a slave on tatooine. it just kept manifesting over the episodes. Palpatine basically bribed him with the ability to cheat death, with anakins fear of his premonitions. Would explain too why Anakin could become a ghost immediately upon his death at the end of Jedi without learning. Though why Yoda brings it up to Obi-Wan if this was Jedi Taboo, or even Qui Gon Jinns green light to learn it. still makes no sense to me. - When Anakin killed younglings, he was already Darth Vader, just not in suit, his turning on Mace Windu was the point of no return for him. A LOT can be explained if that Rogue movie is the tie in to episode 3 till 4, such as what Vader continued to do across the galaxy as the emperors female dog. It might have been the emperors orders, and the generals in the death star that executed the order but I'm sure getting to that point Vaders resume got pretty ugly. His redemption wasn't really a redemption. but he did the right thing in the end. Kinda like someone who committed a crime but takes a plea bargain and that despite their actions, help bring down a bigger problem and get not rewarded (he still died in doing what was right) but reduced time, or in Vader's case maybe a little bit of peace internally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 If I recall correctly A New Hope *was* just called Star Wars. No episode IV. No "A New Hope". It was after it was a huge success and Lucas was able to gain control of the property. So he didn't jabe a studio to answer to and could have called it anything he wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Sorry. Edit to add that he added the tag A New Hope and Episode IV later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigg jay Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Sorry. Edit to add that he added the tag A New Hope and Episode IV later. Correct, one of many edits he made after A New Hope came out & was a hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I recently read a great book about Star Wars. I think its called How Star Wars Changed The Galaxy or something like that (Ill check when Im home). Fantastic unauthorized look at the development of the franchise and the good and bad. Really corrects some misconceptions. Its very easy to read and I highly recommend it for fans. I read it in just a couple of days, never put it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan007 Posted April 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 A New Hope was released in 1977 as Star Wars (I was in the theater, and I was 4...and it was glorious). It became a hit and 20th Century Fox greenlighted the trilogy and re-released it in 1979 as Star Wars: A New Hope Episode 4 (I was 6 and got to see it again...and a few people brought me to see it so I got to see it multiple times....glorious). Obi-Wan mentioned it that Vader hunted down and killed the Jedi in a New Hope "A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi knights". So it's not like we weren't expecting him to slaughter the Jedi in Revenge of the Sith. But the way they portrayed Vader, they made him out to be some whiny child that had tantrums because he didn't get his way. He was like a spoiled brat that wanted everything now and had severe mommy issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 A New Hope was released in 1977 as Star Wars (I was in the theater, and I was 4...and it was glorious). It became a hit and 20th Century Fox greenlighted the trilogy and re-released it in 1979 as Star Wars: A New Hope Episode 4 (I was 6 and got to see it again...and a few people brought me to see it so I got to see it multiple times....glorious). Obi-Wan mentioned it that Vader hunted down and killed the Jedi in a New Hope "A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi knights". So it's not like we weren't expecting him to slaughter the Jedi in Revenge of the Sith. But the way they portrayed Vader, they made him out to be some whiny child that had tantrums because he didn't get his way. He was like a spoiled brat that wanted everything now and had severe mommy issues. Agreed. They needed to make Anakin strong, powerful. Someone we believed could be the difference in the balance of power in the galaxy, someone powerful enough to destroy the Jedi. I didnt hate that he was a kid in TPM but I think he should have been Luke's age. That would have been a nice comparable to A New Hope, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 George Lucas is much more of an idea guy than a real writer. He can come up with good concepts but when it comes to writing he is absolutely terrible. The problem with episodes 1-3 is that he was such a big deal when they were made that no one had the balls to stop him and say "No George that is a terrible idea" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taynted_Fayth Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I might be one of the only ppl in the world that actually didn't mind Anakin to Darth Vader transition in episodes 1-3. At 8 years old the fact he could pod race and was as smart as he is (building C3-PO for example) and whatnot, was good touch upon his extraordinary gifts/talents. Hated the kid playing the role, but as far as story goes, not sure last time you hung out with an 8 year old or been by a grade 3 class but night and day. As in episode II it was showcasing his arrogance, hasty impulsive action, and emotional instability - a teenager by all counts. Then episode III being a young adult making his own choices and path in life and things go gonzo by some poor choices. At least for me, I felt a lot of realism put into the evolution of anakin with his age, and keeping true to the things that are often warned leads to the dark side. or in our society criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Him building C3PO was pretty cool actually. The pod race was good the FIRST time I saw it, but its hard to sit through again and again. The whole slave thing didnt really make a lot of sense either. The unexplored idea of how Anakin was conceived was interesting...and then dropped and left to our own speculation (that Palpatine created him or the force created him...each option raises more questions). The idea of Anakin as the strongest Jedi was sort of defeated too when Obiwan whooped his butt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taynted_Fayth Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I wouldnt say he whooped his butt, more so as it paid tribute to Obi Wan being as good, he did eventually strike down Obi Wan. But his arrogance and impulse caused his defeat initially to Obi Wan, ignoring common sense that Obi had the higher ground Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taynted_Fayth Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 would be cool if they had a bit of a ranking chart or something for Jedi we know of and where they rank. I know they often say Yoda was one of the best with the force, Mace Windu with a light sabre, but where do guys like Obi Wan rank? add sith in there too just for kicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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