Bob Young Comments on CFL Officiating - Not Good Enough

[Rich]

Bit of a controversy in Hamilton right now.  There was a 4th quarter offside call on a goal line stand against the Tiger Cats in the Toronto game.

 

 

You can see the Hamilton players hand clearly over the goal line which means he was offside and in the neutral zone.  You can also see Barker behind the ref.  This is against league rules in that he can't be standing there, that far away from the Toronto bench.  There is concern that there was "coaching" going on, that he was talking to the ref, pointing out the offside, etc.  Otherwise it might not have been called as it is very marginal.

 

http://scratchingpost.thespec.com/2014/10/ticats-owner-cfl-officiating-not-good-enough.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+thespec%2FDRCe+%28The+Scratching+Post%29

 

Here was Bob Young's post in the Ticat forum.

 

 

 

Unfortunately the other teams are working hard to get better too. So all teams need to win the occasional close game to be successful. The debate here is whether the CFL officiating is good enough to ensure that the outcome of the close games is fair. I would argue the CFL officiating is good and getting better, but still not good enough.

The biggest "controversy" is not so much the call itself, but is the Toronto GM coaching the sideline judge during the play. The result was the official called a very marginal penalty (we've been looking for a similar call on a marginal goal line hand infraction and cannot find one. Every other similar offside we can find has the player's hand offside by four or five inches or more. At the very least there should have been two penalties. The other for objectionable conduct to Toronto for their GM's blatant and successful attempt to influence an official on the field. And, yes, our rules and precedent allow for such a penalty.

As you might expect we (and the other teams) provide loud and pointed feedback to the League office whenever there is an officiating mistake. But the teams seldom publicly comment on these because over a season they tend to even out. The difference here is the Toronto GM's role. I'm looking forward to hearing how the League will ensure this -never- happens again.

 

The officiating in the CFL is not good enough.  But he shouldn't be spouting off publicly about it.  I hope he is fined for doing it (not that it will matter to him, he can easily cover the fine).  This stuff needs to stay behind closed doors.  Calling out your officials publicly won't fix the problem.  It makes it worse.  Officiating is already a hard, thankless job.  Don't need this stuff piled on top of it.

 

Barker should be fined too.   It is ridiculous he is way down ther eon the field.    In the BC game last weekend, Benevides was always running out onto the field, 10 - 20 yards in looking and talking to the officials.  He should be fined or assessed a penalty for this too.  Stay on your side line on off the field of play.

 

CFL needs to tighten up on stuff like this.

[Mike]

That's a weird picture. Looks like the ball was spotted at the 1 1/2 yard line which would make the Hamilton player onside. But I'm assuming this was a capture after the snap.

 

Either way ... I think it's a good thing for Bob Young to have done this. The officiating is terrible in the CFL and it's getting worse.

[Rod Black]

Yup, does look like the ball is spotted at the 1 1/2.

[Stickem]

The officials seem to have curtailed this ' flagrant visits to the field of play' a few years ago but it has slipped back to the same ol'. What the hell is Barker doing coaching the ref. Young is right to point it out and if it occurs again the offending team should be given a 20 yarder. It's time we upped some of the penalty yardage on some of these infractions, maybe that'll send a message. Seems Barker feels like bouncing around on the sidelines is part of his gig. Someone from league office has to talk to the man.

[B-F-F-C]

Good for Bob Young. Someone other than the fans had to speak out.

[TrueBlue]

That's a weird picture. Looks like the ball was spotted at the 1 1/2 yard line which would make the Hamilton player onside. But I'm assuming this was a capture after the snap.

 

Either way ... I think it's a good thing for Bob Young to have done this. The officiating is terrible in the CFL and it's getting worse.

 

It definitely looks like the actual LOS is between the 1 and 1 1/2 yard line somewhere.  

[Jpan85]

I saw a better picture on twitter before ball was snapped and it was offside

[iso_55]

That's a weird picture. Looks like the ball was spotted at the 1 1/2 yard line which would make the Hamilton player onside. But I'm assuming this was a capture after the snap.

 

Either way ... I think it's a good thing for Bob Young to have done this. The officiating is terrible in the CFL and it's getting worse.

The refs have totally taken over the game & killing it. Penalty after penalty just grinds the game to a screeching halt. And taking away offensive plays. 

[Mark F]

what's wrong with criticizing refs?

 

owners, managers, coaches, players, all get criticized.

 

why should the refs be above everyone else? This makes no sense.

 

I've never understood the thinking.

 

Totally agree with iso_55. This year in particular, they are ruining the games. Watching games I don't even care about

 

they cause me to lose interest. The game is not about the refs. The less we see them the better.

[max power]

Seems like it's always Barker and the Argos involved with everything shady that happens in the CFL.  Can someone please build the Argos a new stadium already so the league can stop bending over for them constantly?

[bearpants]

I guess the call is legit... although it's incredibly marginal.... but I can see Young having a beef with Barker being right over the ref's shoulder... 

[Mike]

To me, one of the biggest things this year is that penalties were absolutely just killing offensive rhythms. And a lot of it was ticky tack stuff.

 

I think if you polled fans, not many of us would want to see big plays called back by silly ticky tack penalties.

 

I don't think I've thought this through enough to say it's the best idea, but I'd propose something like this - if there is an infraction on the play, unless the penalty being committed directly contributes to the result of the play, then I don't want to see it wipe out the play.

 

Best example I can give is that huge completion to Romby Bryant that was called back by a hands to the face penalty. What I'd ideally like to see happen there? Apply the penalty after the gain. It was illegal but it had no direct impact on the play itself. So if Romby scores there ... put the Bombers on the 10. The only caveat I'd put on this is that objectionable conduct (facemask, etc) penalties would wipe out plays entirely.

 

I've just seen too many big plays called back by stupid penalties that took place WAY away from the play. Nobody wants to see a 50 yard catch and run called back because there was offensive holding on the entirely opposite side of the field. Not with the way our referees throw flags. It was just painful this year.

[iso_55]

Painful only begins to describe it. This is Head of CFL Officiating Glen Johnson's baby & he needs to know that his crews are ruining the game. 

[Rod Black]

VERY good post Mike.

[Rod Black]

Can't say I've ever wanted to turn off an NFL game because of how ref's are calling a game. Have seen Ed Hockuly FU big time, once. The NFL has even experimented with 8 officials on the field and the entertainment value was not obstructed. With 6 officials on a CFL field, their have been a few games this year alone that have had my viewing enjoyment ruined, because the ref's just got way too involved in penalties.

[TBURGESS]

It looks like I'm on the other side of the argument yet again.  

 

I want penalties to be called when they happen, no matter if they effect the play or not.  

 

The players have more control over the penalties than the refs do.  Don't want a hands to the face penalty called?  Don't do it.  Don't want holding called?  Don't hold.  Don't like PI away from the play?  Don't interfere with the receiver.  Don't like blocking penalties on returns?  Don't take the penalty.

 

The refs job is hard enough without trying to figure out if the penalty, which is cheating BTW, is going to or has affected the play.  I want the team that plays the best to win, not the one who cheats the best.

[OldSchoolBlue]

To me, one of the biggest things this year is that penalties were absolutely just killing offensive rhythms. And a lot of it was ticky tack stuff.

 

I think if you polled fans, not many of us would want to see big plays called back by silly ticky tack penalties.

 

I don't think I've thought this through enough to say it's the best idea, but I'd propose something like this - if there is an infraction on the play, unless the penalty being committed directly contributes to the result of the play, then I don't want to see it wipe out the play.

 

Best example I can give is that huge completion to Romby Bryant that was called back by a hands to the face penalty. What I'd ideally like to see happen there? Apply the penalty after the gain. It was illegal but it had no direct impact on the play itself. So if Romby scores there ... put the Bombers on the 10. The only caveat I'd put on this is that objectionable conduct (facemask, etc) penalties would wipe out plays entirely.

 

I've just seen too many big plays called back by stupid penalties that took place WAY away from the play. Nobody wants to see a 50 yard catch and run called back because there was offensive holding on the entirely opposite side of the field. Not with the way our referees throw flags. It was just painful this year.

 

Agree with this 100%. 

[Mr Dee]

Sigh, i have to agree with TB.

There's a reason we have refs in the game and it's not for their amusement.

Imagine, if you will, a penalty free game, orchestrated by the players…not the refs.

Ain't going to happen.

Players make mistakes all the time. Some of these 'mistakes' are on purpose.

They get a lot of chances to correct their mistakes.

They are paid good money not to make those mistakes..but they still do.

It's the nature of playing sports.

 

Refs make mistakes and make nowhere near the money that players do.

 

You want a cleaner game, with less stoppages?

Look at the players, because the Coaches know who really are the guilty parties and it isn't the refs.

[Fatty Liver]

The officials seem to have curtailed this ' flagrant visits to the field of play' a few years ago but it has slipped back to the same ol'. What the hell is Barker doing coaching the ref. Young is right to point it out and if it occurs again the offending team should be given a 20 yarder. It's time we upped some of the penalty yardage on some of these infractions, maybe that'll send a message. Seems Barker feels like bouncing around on the sidelines is part of his gig. Someone from league office has to talk to the man.

 

O'Shea is guilty of doing the same, whispering in the ear of the ref. to catch the Sask. center rocking the ball prior to snap in their first game.

[Mr Dee]

When the play was right in front of him…not way down the field.

There's a difference.

[Rod Black]

It looks like I'm on the other side of the argument yet again.  

 

I want penalties to be called when they happen, no matter if they effect the play or not.  

 

The players have more control over the penalties than the refs do.  Don't want a hands to the face penalty called?  Don't do it.  Don't want holding called?  Don't hold.  Don't like PI away from the play?  Don't interfere with the receiver.  Don't like blocking penalties on returns?  Don't take the penalty.

 

The refs job is hard enough without trying to figure out if the penalty, which is cheating BTW, is going to or has affected the play.  I want the team that plays the best to win, not the one who cheats the best.

Valid perspect.and it is the current practice. The ref's don't know how the play will turn out, and if they see something, they throw the flag. However, there is a theory of "No harm, no foul", that could be adopted as a rule.That's what I think is being argued.

[trueBlue83]

there's also a huge difference between pointing out an opposing player's tendency to a ref, especially when it is an infraction, than being down at the goal line when you're not even a part of the coaching staff!  Why Barker is even on the field is strange!?

[Stickem]

Definitely a dif. when the play is in front of your bench and the coach is on top of it. The gm has no business during a game influencing an official. I've yet to see Walters pull off that stunt or any other gm for that matter. IF the play was offside (marginally),then Barker was blatantly.

[Fatty Liver]

 

It looks like I'm on the other side of the argument yet again.  

 

I want penalties to be called when they happen, no matter if they effect the play or not.  

 

The players have more control over the penalties than the refs do.  Don't want a hands to the face penalty called?  Don't do it.  Don't want holding called?  Don't hold.  Don't like PI away from the play?  Don't interfere with the receiver.  Don't like blocking penalties on returns?  Don't take the penalty.

 

The refs job is hard enough without trying to figure out if the penalty, which is cheating BTW, is going to or has affected the play.  I want the team that plays the best to win, not the one who cheats the best.

Valid perspect.and it is the current practice. The ref's don't know how the play will turn out, and if they see something, they throw the flag. However, there is a theory of "No harm, no foul", that could be adopted as a rule.That's what I think is being argued.

 

 

I support that view as well.  If you watch some of the coverage on kickoffs you will see players being pulled down away from the play for no reason when the ball is still in flight and these infractions are completely intentional.  Either the players are being coached to do this to gain an edge or it's a blatant disregard of the rules hoping that the ref. won't catch it.  Either way until the players start playing the game with the intent not to intentionally cheat I'm not going to blame the refs. for the flurry of flags being thrown.

[Mike]

It looks like I'm on the other side of the argument yet again.  

 

I want penalties to be called when they happen, no matter if they effect the play or not.  

 

The players have more control over the penalties than the refs do.  Don't want a hands to the face penalty called?  Don't do it.  Don't want holding called?  Don't hold.  Don't like PI away from the play?  Don't interfere with the receiver.  Don't like blocking penalties on returns?  Don't take the penalty.

 

The refs job is hard enough without trying to figure out if the penalty, which is cheating BTW, is going to or has affected the play.  I want the team that plays the best to win, not the one who cheats the best.

 

I want penalties to be called too. I just don't want it to affect the flow of the game and IMO, it does. Bombers aside, this has been the lowest quality of CFL football in quite some time. A lot of that has to do with the penalty parade.

 

Something has to change and this is just a compromise that benefits the fans.