http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl/cflpa-preparing-for-potential-labour-stoppage/

 

"Believing they have reached an impasse after four months of negotiations with the Canadian Football League, the CFL Players’ Association is recommending its membership proceed with a strike vote, Sportsnet has learned.

The collective bargaining agreement between the league and players expires May 30, on the eve of training camp. And while both sides are scheduled to meet this Thursday and Friday in Toronto, documents obtained by Sportsnet indicate the union is readying itself for a potential labour stoppage.

“It is the position of your Negotiating Committee that the position of the CFL in relation to almost all matters and their refusal to have the cap in some way connected to revenue are unreasonable,” reads an internal memo written by CFLPA President Scott Flory and distributed to all CFL players last Friday. “As a result, we are recommending that the Players proceed with a strike vote.”

Flory, who did not immediately respond to Sportsnet’s request for comment, has previously stated that the union will not play the 2014 season under terms of the expiring CBA, while both sides negotiate.

Sources told Sportsnet that when the two sides broke on May 2, the league, which declined comment for this story, said it would return this week with further input from governors/owners on making progress toward a new economic model.

Since talks began in February, the CFLPA has been steadfast in its pursuit of revenue sharing, something that wasn’t included in the 2010 deal but has existed between the league and the CFLPA in the past. The league’s negotiation committee has not budged from its stance of having a fixed cap.

At the centre of the debate is a new television deal, reportedly worth $40 million this coming season. The current deal is worth $15.3 million.

Last season’s salary cap was $4.4 million and proposals obtained by Sportsnet show the CFL has offered the following when it comes to player compensation:

2014 – $4,500,000.00
2015 – $4,600,000.00
2016 – $4,650,000.00
2017 – $4,700,000.00
2018 – $4,750,000.00
2019 – $4,800,000.00
2020 – $4,900,000.00
2021 – $5,000,000.00

There are several other points of contention. The CFLPA has proposed a minimum annual player salary of $55,000—with a 10 percent increase annually. The league countered with a $46,000 minimum, which caps at $49,000 in 2021.

The union has proposed practice roster players make no less than $1,000 a week (or $18,000 per season). The league has countered with $750/week, but to increase the practice roster size to 12, from seven, and implement “two-way” contracts, making it easier for teams to release players.

The union is also pushing for an increase to post-season playoff share, and a hike to the Grey Cup bonus cheque, which the league has refused.

One area the two sides have come to terms on is the increase in roster size–from 42 to 44 on game day. The extra two spots would be occupied by a non-import and one designated import. The reserve list would drop from four per game to two.

The CFL has proposed an eight-year collective bargaining agreement, double the length of the current deal. The union wants the duration to be “subject to negotiation.”

A source tied to the league, speaking on the condition of anonymity, believes the tactic of the league and its governors/owners is patience—the thinking being that the union will eventually give in once the risk of losing pay is a legitimate possibility."

I would want to play too if I just got a brand new deal worth up to 175K.

Really surprised how many people are so anti-unions in this thread. Kind of interesting...

Really surprised how many people are so anti-unions in this thread. Kind of interesting...

Especially against a little pipsqueak union like the CFLPA.

Really surprised how many people are so anti-unions in this thread. Kind of interesting...

Personally, I think the CFL has made a reasonable offer to the PA. Not every team is making the kind of cash that the Riders are, and even with the new TV deal teams like Toronto and Hamilton (despite the new stadium) are on shaky ground at the best of times. Add the fact that attendance is steadily declining in Montreal and Ottawa has already failed twice makes the sunshine and rainbows image the PA is trying to portray somewhat laughable. It's hard to take them seriously with their offers nevermind their PR skills (lack there of) as shown last week.

Really surprised how many people are so anti-unions in this thread. Kind of interesting...

I'm actually, generally, a big union supporter, but I feel the owners most recent offer was fair. I also understand that revenue sharing doesn't work in markets like Winnipeg, where the taxpayers will end up funding the losses for teams like Toronto and Hamilton. Once all teams are making a strong profit, then revenue sharing might work. I feel right now the PA is just being greedy and I don't support that. I'm also a fan and I want training camp to begin on time.

Really surprised how many people are so anti-unions in this thread. Kind of interesting...

i'm pro union...

but i'm very anti public sector union.

Leaning towards the owners offer isn't anti-union.  It's pro-CFL.  Most folks around here want to see the players get raises and to see some CFL football being played.  A 10% raise and a 3K signing bonus is a way better offer than most people on these boards will get this year.

Really surprised how many people are so anti-unions in this thread. Kind of interesting...

i'm pro union...

but i'm very anti public sector union.

I knew I liked you for a reason.

As for the players, getting their money now and not waiting for league revenues to increase was their choice and a good one for any player due to their uncertain shelf life. The best thing for the league is still cost certainty and whether the players admit it or not, it's the best thing for them. Idealism has no place in this argument.

Well basically Harris I saying "this is what I think. This is what is true but sorry guys i should be towing the idiotic company line even though it's going to cost us all money".

Classic union. Good job boys.

Really surprised how many people are so anti-unions in this thread. Kind of interesting...

For me personally it's my own personal negative experience with unions. Though during one contract negotiations out company made an insulting offer and I was happy to rally people to care (most didn't). But I find too many unions think it's the 50's. Fighting for a 10% increase and visions care and personal days off is not the same as fighting for a living wage and workplace safety and reasonable hours.

Unions haven't evolved. That's what annoys me

If you want to see what life is like without unions, look at south-east USA. If you want to see what life is like with active, involved unions look at the most vibrant economy in the world: Germany.

Private public services have been repeatedly shown to cost way more than government public services. In Alberta, a surgical procedure was costed at $880.00 and the same service in a contracted private surgical clinic was $1350.00. In Ontario, hip replacement in a hospital was costed at $18,000.00 but over $33,000.00 in  private clinics, but the private clinics had higher acquired infections and surgical failures.

To me, it's not a union vs mgmt thing simply because it's the CFL.

The CFL is much too fragile an entity to be playing chicken in a strike situation.

I can't think of another institution that has the uniqueness of working together in the same workplace that is the CFL.

I mean, who else has an import, non-import ratio in a sports environment?

 

The CFLPA has to realize the limits as to how far they can push and work within that framework.

It's not like they don't have enough historical info. to go on.

Public sector and private sector working in the same league, with failures and successes, give them plenty of info. to work with.

 

It's still a fragile league, IMO, and any victory and improvement that the CFLPA can get should be considered a win, especially considering where the league has been, several times, in the past 20 years.

I woke up this morning and was wondering what to eat. I checked the fridge and seen some pickles. WTH, pickles for breakfast? Maybe, so I kept looking. Seen some cream cheese but no way would I have bagels. So on I went, some nice fruit nectarines apples and strawberries but what would that say about me, as a person? Fruit salad? Save that for the seniors, so on I went passing the pepperoni, ham, hotdogs and smokies. Leftover ribs from last night, delicious but still not what I was looking for.

Into the freezer I go, should have worn a sweater lol just kidding. Mini cheese pizzas, could that be it? Then I remembered the fridge and those pickles and pepperoni.

Pepperoni and pickle mini pizzas. Damn good breakfast, if you have never had dill pickles on pizza you should try it. Just remember to dry them a bit after slicing and put them on top of the cheese. Peace rg.

To me, it's not a union vs mgmt thing simply because it's the CFL.

The CFL is much too fragile an entity to be playing chicken in a strike situation.

I can't think of another institution that has the uniqueness of working together in the same workplace that is the CFL.

I mean, who else has an import, non-import ratio in a sports environment?

 

The CFLPA has to realize the limits as to how far they can push and work within that framework.

It's not like they don't have enough historical info. to go on.

Public sector and private sector working in the same league, with failures and successes, give them plenty of info. to work with.

 

It's still a fragile league, IMO, and any victory and improvement that the CFLPA can get should be considered a win, especially considering where the league has been, several times, in the past 20 years.

European hockey leagues have the import rule.

 

Really surprised how many people are so anti-unions in this thread. Kind of interesting...

i'm pro union...

but i'm very anti public sector union.

 

Teachers: Pay us more to teach your kids less.

I'm pro-union, but I don't have a lot of sympathy for the CFLPA given how poorly they are handling negotiations, consistently flip-flopping each time the CBA is reopened on how they wish to be compensated based on how they can get the most money the next season (which is totally fair).  What I can't stand is the calling out of the league for being greedy and unwilling to partner with the players, when really history suggests the opposite is at least equally true.

 

In the last CBA, the league gave the players more money than they would have got had compensation linked to revenue continued.  The CFLPA knew that stadiums were planned in Winnipeg, Hamilton, BC and most likely Saskatchewan last time around.  Rather than take a longview, they took the immediate money and ran, giving up compensation linked to revenue.  You change something fundamental like how compensation is determined, you can't expect to change it back to suit you best the next time it comes around.

 

You reap what you sow.  Unfortunately I believe most CFL players are in the dark (which is not unusual for any labour negotiation) and their executive/legal counsel is severely lacking in expertise, and they don't have the money to bring in someone who can handle this situation properly.  They've likely seen the best offer from the CFL, and if this goes on much longer they'll be taken to the woodshed.

I woke up this morning and was wondering what to eat. I checked the fridge and seen some pickles. WTH, pickles for breakfast? Maybe, so I kept looking. Seen some cream cheese but no way would I have bagels. So on I went, some nice fruit nectarines apples and strawberries but what would that say about me, as a person? Fruit salad? Save that for the seniors, so on I went passing the pepperoni, ham, hotdogs and smokies. Leftover ribs from last night, delicious but still not what I was looking for.

Into the freezer I go, should have worn a sweater lol just kidding. Mini cheese pizzas, could that be it? Then I remembered the fridge and those pickles and pepperoni.

Pepperoni and pickle mini pizzas. Damn good breakfast, if you have never had dill pickles on pizza you should try it. Just remember to dry them a bit after slicing and put them on top of the cheese. Peace rg.

You accidentally posted a message intended for your mom in this forum. Just FYI.

I have some sympathy with the CFLPA but...

 

Like a Bridge Too Far this is a CBA too soon. Give it time to see if OTT can flourish and what new stadiums and possible new ownership in TOR can deliver then go for the green.

@CFLPA: #CFLPA president Scott Flory has confirmed with @canadiancommish that CBA negotiations shall resume Wednesday: http://t.co/sIbKFw2J10

Sunlight leaking thru the "united front" ?

From the CFLPA:

http://proplayers.ca/news/news/2014/05/25/cflpa-statement-to-facts

CFLPA Statement to Facts

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Sunday, May 25, 2014

CFLPA Statement to Facts

(STONEY CREEK, ON) The CFL Players' Association and President Scott Flory feel that it is important to clarify a number of points and outline specific information from 3 separate documents issued by the CFL. The first was a direct letter to every Veteran Player, the second "An Open Letter to Canadian Football League fans" and the third "CBA Myths and Facts", the latter 2 posted directly to cfl.ca.

I have also included other information as per the links below, where the League has made statements that are now contrary to their negotiating position. In spite of the League ambushing the PA Executive and strategically breaking the trust of our media agreement during our last attempt to negotiate a new deal on Wednesday May 21st, the CFLPA Executive Negotiation Committee have utilized our time wisely and are now anxious to get back behind closed doors to negotiate in good faith, a deal that will get both parties a fair and equitable CBA that will stand for many years to come.

FACT: Mark Cohon boasts about 6 of 8 healthy franchises at Grey Cup 2012.

FACT: Players' salaries are the only regulated form of spending on the teams. Profitability varies due to differing business models, which is why our proposal is based on revenue.

FACT: The Commissioners argument that we cannot compare ourselves to the other major professional sports leagues is just not true, we are all the same, just on a different scale. Their real issue isn't a salary cap tied to revenue, it's a league wide system of revenue sharing so all the teams can exist through good times and bad.

FACT: Our initial monetary proposal would still allow for a distribution of an additional $1M per Club.

FACT: Winnipeg's revenues grew by $7.5M to $24.2M with a new stadium, a rise of approximately 45%. We can only assume Hamilton?s and Ottawa?s revenues will be comparable.

FACT: The standard set by the other North American sports leagues is the salary cap is approx. 50% of total gross revenue. Our initial ask is for 25.7% of Winnipeg?s revenue, 33.6% of Edmonton?s revenue, and 18% of Saskatchewan's revenue!

FACT: Our proposal provides for a salary cap of 35% of revenues. This percentage is based on a league wide average that excludes the high and low teams as outlined in the 2013 financial statements provided by the CFL. This does not include the new TSN TV revenue!!!!

Scott Flory - CFL Players' Association - President

For more information on the CFLPA, please visit www.cflpa.com.

Media Enquiries: Deanne Mitchell CFLPA 1.800.616.6865 x204 d.mitchell@cflpa.com

I woke up this morning and was wondering what to eat. I checked the fridge and seen some pickles. WTH, pickles for breakfast? Maybe, so I kept looking. Seen some cream cheese but no way would I have bagels. So on I went, some nice fruit nectarines apples and strawberries but what would that say about me, as a person? Fruit salad? Save that for the seniors, so on I went passing the pepperoni, ham, hotdogs and smokies. Leftover ribs from last night, delicious but still not what I was looking for.

Into the freezer I go, should have worn a sweater lol just kidding. Mini cheese pizzas, could that be it? Then I remembered the fridge and those pickles and pepperoni.

Pepperoni and pickle mini pizzas. Damn good breakfast, if you have never had dill pickles on pizza you should try it. Just remember to dry them a bit after slicing and put them on top of the cheese. Peace rg.

You accidentally posted a message intended for your mom in this forum. Just FYI.

No accident, we are thinking of cancelling our phones to save cash and using forums to keep in touch. Love you, little grill.

 

 

FACT: Mark Cohon boasts about 6 of 8 healthy franchises at Grey Cup 2012.

 

Healthy is relative in the CFL.   If you look historically, healthy means not losing money, breaking even, and making a small profit.  They also reportedly have the books on 7 of the 8 teams.  Why don't they talk about the profitability directly of last year?   The leagues profitability fluctuates too much to look at a single year, a single statement in isolation.

 

 

 

FACT: Players' salaries are the only regulated form of spending on the teams. Profitability varies due to differing business models, which is why our proposal is based on revenue.

 

This one bothers me.  As we've seen in Winnipeg, being forced to skimp on other areas of the operation can cause an inequitable playing field in terms of less coaches, less appealing travel in terms of attracting FA, etc.

 

 

 

FACT: The Commissioners argument that we cannot compare ourselves to the other major professional sports leagues is just not true, we are all the same, just on a different scale. Their real issue isn't a salary cap tied to revenue, it's a league wide system of revenue sharing so all the teams can exist through good times and bad.

 

Other then the big 4, other sports don't have a cap tied to league revenues.  The CFL is not to the same scale as the NBA, MLB, NFL, or NHL.  Their revenues are so huge that basic costs like travel, coaches, trainers, per diems, etc don't affect their bottom lines like they do 

 

 

 

FACT: Winnipeg's revenues grew by $7.5M to $24.2M with a new stadium, a rise of approximately 45%. We can only assume Hamilton?s and Ottawa?s revenues will be comparable.

 

Who cares about revenue.   Profitability didn't rise nearly by that much.  All this in a year where we weren't able to make a mortgage payment.  With a new stadium comes new costs as well.    This is where tying a cap to revenues is problematic.   And making that assumption is just plain wrong.  They are different markets who have had problems being profitable in the past.  So much so that Ottawa has folded ... twice.

 

 

 

FACT: The standard set by the other North American sports leagues is the salary cap is approx. 50% of total gross revenue. Our initial ask is for 25.7% of Winnipeg?s revenue, 33.6% of Edmonton?s revenue, and 18% of Saskatchewan's revenue!

 

Again, the CFL doesn't experience the same economies of scale as the other leagues so why bring it up.  It is an Apple's to Orange's argument.   You report based on 3 of the most profitable teams, or half the league.  Give us the numbers on how your proposal affects the bottom half of the league because really the CFL can't afford to lose a single franchise.

 

 

 

FACT: Our proposal provides for a salary cap of 35% of revenues. This percentage is based on a league wide average that excludes the high and low teams as outlined in the 2013 financial statements provided by the CFL. This does not include the new TSN TV revenue!!!!

 

Maybe not this year because that revenue isn't factored into the numbers yet, but it certainly will next year.

 

 

 

I think the CLFPA is still a bit out of touch on their expectations.   At least their % of revenue ask seems to have come down to a realistic numbers.  Still don't think the owners will go for it in the long run.  Good news that they are getting back together on Wednesday.

Really surprised how many people are so anti-unions in this thread. Kind of interesting...

It's pretty silly to think that anything about the CFL can relate to a real life business situation.  If that was the case the old Bomber stadium would have been siezed by the bank and sold for parts 20 years ago.

 

I would like the players to get more money, especially the guys at the bottom end.  At the same time, I am also aware that to call the owners greedy when they have historically been consistent money losers while players have consistently been paid requires me to either forget the definition of greedy, be hypocrytical, or just talk out of my arse.  I'd prefer to do none of the three.

 

As a fan of the CFL I feel like that kind of makes me an owner.  Seriously.  There is no way this league would have survived without our tlc.  But that's not the way it should be; it should be independently sustainable.  Every single year people wait for the fan forum in April to find out if the Bombers made or lost money.  Think about that.  Every single year the profitability of a professional sports team is completely in doubt.  Year after year after year after year.

 

Pro-union?  Anti-union?  I'm pro-CFL.  I'm pro-9 profitable teams that never need to expand to the US, take loans from the NFL, or ask for debt forgiveness from local business because they are unable to pay bills.  I'm pro-not lending those 2 stinking Ontario teams money anymore.  I'm pro-having fan forums where the question of year to year profitability of the Bombers is no longer a mystery.  And I'm pro-paying the players more.  Except Burris.

The FACTs contradict each other.  Business models differ, but new stadiums in Hamilton and Ottawa should equal comparable revenue to the new stadium in Winnipeg.

 

Here's a FACT I'm interested in, does the CFLPA at least consult with an economist? 

 

Interesting numbers with the community owned teams in terms % of team revenue would go to player salaries.  What's the % for Toronto or Montreal?  I suppose they can't release that number because it would break the confidentiality they agreed to with financial statements.  It would likely be upwards of 50%.