HardCoreBlue Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Mental illness is just an excuse. Yeah drugs can manage it, but if you stop taking the drugs you can go right back to being a crazy person and a danger to society. I'm all for greater awareness of mental problems and greater methods for spotting mental troubles early and helping people but that being said you show that you're crazy enough to behead someone and eat them sorry but you blew your chance at being part of a functioning society. Generalization that is way off the mark. A lot of people who have been touched by mental health issues would take offense to this remark. That's why we, as a collective group of people trying to co-exist with one another, rely on professionals (i.e Mark H's point) in these chosen vocations to apply their education, expertise, experiences and emotional intelligence to the most relevant information/evidence available. Usually no one case is identical to the other that warrants a particular decision for that situation. Yes, sometimes they get it right and sometimes they don't. That's true for any vocation. It's called the complexity of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOBomberFan Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 easy solution - let all the Victor Li's out into society but then also make it mandatory that all adults carry a weapon to defend themselves from being eaten. It basically then just turns society into an episode of the Walking Dead. Personally, I'd like to go back to carrying around swords on our hips. Less innocent bystanders that way. That and I was a fencer in high school, so I think I'd have... an edge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted February 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Like I said, if Li reoffends in any way the so called experts, the doctors, the board members & the lawyers who cleared him to go out into society because they say he is a model patient/prisoner showing great promise need to be the ones who are held accountable in civil & criminal courts. If they are so sure then let them stick their necks out to the point where they can be sued & or jailed if something bad happens. I agree this guy should never see the light of day on his own anymore. And this isn't hating mental patients as someone here is trying to paint this which is completely ridiculous. This is about public safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardCoreBlue Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Like I said, if Li reoffends in any way the so called experts, the doctors, the board members & the lawyers who cleared him to go out into society because they say he is a model patient/prisoner showing great promise need to be the ones who are held accountable in civil & criminal courts. If they are so sure then let them stick their necks out to the point where they can be sued & or jailed if something bad happens. I agree this guy should never see the light of day on his own anymore. And this isn't hating mental patients as someone here is trying to paint this which is completely ridiculous. This is about public safety. I'm always intrigued when this term is used in effort to support a 'black and white' argument and to denounce the 'misguided' others who may think otherwise. If you think that this issue is only about public safety and is a fairly easy decision in what to do then you're disagreeing with many professionals in many disciplines, not just mental health professionals. That's a fact. You can have your opinion but sometimes there's no way around the facts and no way around avoiding the complexities of situations like this whether you like it or not. And, not to mention the fact, if people read all the posts here thus far on this issue, it isn't just about public safety, posters are also sharing their opinions on mental illness, mental health. Therefore, that will open up the discussion further than public safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted February 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Like I said, let these experts be accountable. If they were. I betcha half the people let out deemed safe wouldn't be. And HCB, this whole discussion relates to public safety. That is why we're discussing this & the amazement by most of us that a man who did what he did can be let out on unescorted passes into the community barely 5 years after beheading & eating his victim. Was it you who accused people here of hating mental patients? If you were, you can't be more wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 easy solution - let all the Victor Li's out into society but then also make it mandatory that all adults carry a weapon to defend themselves from being eaten. It basically then just turns society into an episode of the Walking Dead. That actually already exists and it's called 'Murica Brandon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Mental illness is just an excuse. Yeah drugs can manage it, but if you stop taking the drugs you can go right back to being a crazy person and a danger to society. I'm all for greater awareness of mental problems and greater methods for spotting mental troubles early and helping people but that being said you show that you're crazy enough to behead someone and eat them sorry but you blew your chance at being part of a functioning society. Generalization that is way off the mark. A lot of people who have been touched by mental health issues would take offense to this remark. That's why we, as a collective group of people trying to co-exist with one another, rely on professionals (i.e Mark H's point) in these chosen vocations to apply their education, expertise, experiences and emotional intelligence to the most relevant information/evidence available. Usually no one case is identical to the other that warrants a particular decision for that situation. Yes, sometimes they get it right and sometimes they don't. That's true for any vocation. It's called the complexity of life. Quite frankly I don't care if those people are offended. I see no reason to be PC about it. If you're crazy you're crazy why tip toe around it? Like I said I am all for mental health awareness and programs to help people and ending the nonsense that some problems you just have to suck up and deal with it... but once you cross the line from simply crazy to crazed killer I'm sorry but it's game over and I want that person out of society. Brandon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark H. Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Mental illness is just an excuse. Yeah drugs can manage it, but if you stop taking the drugs you can go right back to being a crazy person and a danger to society. I'm all for greater awareness of mental problems and greater methods for spotting mental troubles early and helping people but that being said you show that you're crazy enough to behead someone and eat them sorry but you blew your chance at being part of a functioning society. Generalization that is way off the mark. A lot of people who have been touched by mental health issues would take offense to this remark. That's why we, as a collective group of people trying to co-exist with one another, rely on professionals (i.e Mark H's point) in these chosen vocations to apply their education, expertise, experiences and emotional intelligence to the most relevant information/evidence available. Usually no one case is identical to the other that warrants a particular decision for that situation. Yes, sometimes they get it right and sometimes they don't. That's true for any vocation. It's called the complexity of life. Quite frankly I don't care if those people are offended. I see no reason to be PC about it. If you're crazy you're crazy why tip toe around it? Like I said I am all for mental health awareness and programs to help people and ending the nonsense that some problems you just have to suck up and deal with it... but once you cross the line from simply crazy to crazed killer I'm sorry but it's game over and I want that person out of society. Yeah well, drunk people have also been known to do some crazy things, especially while behind the steering wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robynjt Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Yeah well, drunk people have also been known to do some crazy things, especially while behind the steering wheel. Or people on hallucinogenic drugs (for example). I don't even want to think of the crazy people (not mentally crazy, but insane/murderous etc) that have gotten released once they serve his time. I highly, HIGHLY doubt doctors (you know, medically trained professionals....) would release he was at even a low risk to reoffend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted February 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Yeah well, drunk people have also been known to do some crazy things, especially while behind the steering wheel. Or people on hallucinogenic drugs (for example). I don't even want to think of the crazy people (not mentally crazy, but insane/murderous etc) that have gotten released once they serve his time. I highly, HIGHLY doubt doctors (you know, medically trained professionals....) would release he was at even a low risk to reoffend. Can you be absolutely sure? You can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelownabomberfan Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Here's a solution to the eating people issue at least... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark H. Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Yeah well, drunk people have also been known to do some crazy things, especially while behind the steering wheel. Or people on hallucinogenic drugs (for example). I don't even want to think of the crazy people (not mentally crazy, but insane/murderous etc) that have gotten released once they serve his time. I highly, HIGHLY doubt doctors (you know, medically trained professionals....) would release he was at even a low risk to reoffend. Can you be absolutely sure? You can't. Same thing with someone who was found guilty of impaired driving - you can't be sure they won't re-offend. Yet many are not in any kind of custody - what if they 'go off the rails' and kill someone? MOBomberFan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted February 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Mark, how can you possibly compare that to a guy beheading another person & eating him??? No, you can't guarantee anything which is why Li should be locked up for the rest of his life. I totally agree with 17 when he says if you're crazy, you're crazy & why be politically correct about it? The man is looney tunes & will always be a risk to society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Mental illness is just an excuse. Yeah drugs can manage it, but if you stop taking the drugs you can go right back to being a crazy person and a danger to society. I'm all for greater awareness of mental problems and greater methods for spotting mental troubles early and helping people but that being said you show that you're crazy enough to behead someone and eat them sorry but you blew your chance at being part of a functioning society. Generalization that is way off the mark. A lot of people who have been touched by mental health issues would take offense to this remark. That's why we, as a collective group of people trying to co-exist with one another, rely on professionals (i.e Mark H's point) in these chosen vocations to apply their education, expertise, experiences and emotional intelligence to the most relevant information/evidence available. Usually no one case is identical to the other that warrants a particular decision for that situation. Yes, sometimes they get it right and sometimes they don't. That's true for any vocation. It's called the complexity of life. Quite frankly I don't care if those people are offended. I see no reason to be PC about it. If you're crazy you're crazy why tip toe around it? Like I said I am all for mental health awareness and programs to help people and ending the nonsense that some problems you just have to suck up and deal with it... but once you cross the line from simply crazy to crazed killer I'm sorry but it's game over and I want that person out of society. Yeah well, drunk people have also been known to do some crazy things, especially while behind the steering wheel. but if you commit a crime while drunk you don't get to use the techinicality that you weren't in your right state of mind, you get held responsible for your actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweep the leg Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 obviously a very polarizing issue. I feel for the family, I can't imagine losing a family member in such a violent fashion. He was found not criminally responsible and didn't ask to have his affliction. He chose not to take his meds once and I don't know what other freedoms he might be entitled to in the future but it's scary to wonder what might happen if he does neglect to take them again. I don't know if there are any right answers or who on this site is qualified to render an opinion but I do know an out and out fear and hatred towards the mentally ill 'probably' isn't going to solve anything. He chose to not take his meds? I didn't know that, I thought he was just undiagnosed prior to the crime. To me that's the biggest thing. I don't remember the whole story, but if you choose to go off your meds you should never see freedom again. If he was undiagnosed, it's an entirely different situation. I would still never let him go completely unsupervised though. Make him check in every night to ensure he takes his meds would be my solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelownabomberfan Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 http://www.winnipegsun.com/2014/02/28/people-dont-want-to-hear-vince-li-is-getting-better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOBomberFan Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 but if you commit a crime while drunk you don't get to use the techinicality that you weren't in your right state of mind, you get held responsible for your actions. I thought the argument is that he shouldn't be released because there is a chance he could re-offend. But drunk drivers do get released from jail once they've served their time. To borrow an idea from Iso, can anyone guarantee these guys won't get wasted and hop behind the wheel the moment they get the chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelownabomberfan Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 obviously a very polarizing issue. I feel for the family, I can't imagine losing a family member in such a violent fashion. He was found not criminally responsible and didn't ask to have his affliction. He chose not to take his meds once and I don't know what other freedoms he might be entitled to in the future but it's scary to wonder what might happen if he does neglect to take them again. I don't know if there are any right answers or who on this site is qualified to render an opinion but I do know an out and out fear and hatred towards the mentally ill 'probably' isn't going to solve anything. He chose to not take his meds? I didn't know that, I thought he was just undiagnosed prior to the crime. To me that's the biggest thing. I don't remember the whole story, but if you choose to go off your meds you should never see freedom again. If he was undiagnosed, it's an entirely different situation. I would still never let him go completely unsupervised though. Make him check in every night to ensure he takes his meds would be my solution. All I know is that for the rest of this guy's life, we'll be paying for him to have his treatment. Perhaps they should have a "Do you like to eat people - Y/N" question on the immigrant application. Maybe he wants to move back where he came from, but that would mean he'd have to eat Chinese every night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOBomberFan Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 Wow. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweep the leg Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 but if you commit a crime while drunk you don't get to use the techinicality that you weren't in your right state of mind, you get held responsible for your actions. Drunkeness and schizophrenia aren't comparable. You only get to choose one of those options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark H. Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 Mental illness is just an excuse. Yeah drugs can manage it, but if you stop taking the drugs you can go right back to being a crazy person and a danger to society. I'm all for greater awareness of mental problems and greater methods for spotting mental troubles early and helping people but that being said you show that you're crazy enough to behead someone and eat them sorry but you blew your chance at being part of a functioning society. Generalization that is way off the mark. A lot of people who have been touched by mental health issues would take offense to this remark. That's why we, as a collective group of people trying to co-exist with one another, rely on professionals (i.e Mark H's point) in these chosen vocations to apply their education, expertise, experiences and emotional intelligence to the most relevant information/evidence available. Usually no one case is identical to the other that warrants a particular decision for that situation. Yes, sometimes they get it right and sometimes they don't. That's true for any vocation. It's called the complexity of life. Quite frankly I don't care if those people are offended. I see no reason to be PC about it. If you're crazy you're crazy why tip toe around it? Like I said I am all for mental health awareness and programs to help people and ending the nonsense that some problems you just have to suck up and deal with it... but once you cross the line from simply crazy to crazed killer I'm sorry but it's game over and I want that person out of society. Yeah well, drunk people have also been known to do some crazy things, especially while behind the steering wheel. but if you commit a crime while drunk you don't get to use the techinicality that you weren't in your right state of mind, you get held responsible for your actions. Drunkeness can reduce a murder charge to manslaughter, which greatly shortens the sentence. When said person is released - there is no way to know if they'll reoffend or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark H. Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 Mark, how can you possibly compare that to a guy beheading another person & eating him??? No, you can't guarantee anything which is why Li should be locked up for the rest of his life. I totally agree with 17 when he says if you're crazy, you're crazy & why be politically correct about it? The man is looney tunes & will always be a risk to society. Because in both scenarios - a person is dead. Yet when someone has served their sentence for vehicular homicide they are released - and it's usually not all over the news and we don't have MP's calling for appeals. Can't have it both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 All I know is that for the rest of this guy's life, we'll be paying for him to have his treatment. Perhaps they should have a "Do you like to eat people - Y/N" question on the immigrant application. Maybe he wants to move back where he came from, but that would mean he'd have to eat Chinese every night. Are you actually going to contribute something to this thread or just crack jokes in and among all the serious posts being made? Just wondering. It's borderline offensive. Mark H. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted March 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 Mark, how can you possibly compare that to a guy beheading another person & eating him??? No, you can't guarantee anything which is why Li should be locked up for the rest of his life. I totally agree with 17 when he says if you're crazy, you're crazy & why be politically correct about it? The man is looney tunes & will always be a risk to society. Because in both scenarios - a person is dead. Yet when someone has served their sentence for vehicular homicide they are released - and it's usually not all over the news and we don't have MP's calling for appeals. Can't have it both ways. That is a ridiculous analogy. I don't know how much more you can twist your logic & still be serious? Do you think there's a chance Craig McTavish is going to go out & behead or eat someone tonight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacquie Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 Mark, how can you possibly compare that to a guy beheading another person & eating him??? No, you can't guarantee anything which is why Li should be locked up for the rest of his life. I totally agree with 17 when he says if you're crazy, you're crazy & why be politically correct about it? The man is looney tunes & will always be a risk to society. Because in both scenarios - a person is dead. Yet when someone has served their sentence for vehicular homicide they are released - and it's usually not all over the news and we don't have MP's calling for appeals. Can't have it both ways. That is a ridiculous analogy. I don't know how much more you can twist your logic & still be serious? Do you think there's a chance Craig McTavish is going to go out & behead or eat someone tonight? You certainly are making it clear that the gruesomeness of what happened is your major consideration. Would you be so outraged if Vince Li had stabbed Tim McLean in the chest and then sat there like nothing had happened? When on his meds, Vince Li is much less likely to re-offend than an alcoholic with a car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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