Khari Jones - Pros & Cons

[17to85]

cause one year is always so make or break. My head is fine thanks but you might want to consult a proctologist. 

[Valderan_CA]

 

Again your opinion is based on your personal perception vs. reality.   

 

Someone mentioned this and I think it's important to keep this in mind.  Miller is ensconced in the Wpg business community and if he fucks this up and it becomes a public debacle.  It's going to hurt him more anyone else.  

 

I hear his company Pinnacle is having all kinds of profitability issues for a number of years .... nonetheless I love Wade Miller at the controls

 

It`s a tough time to be in the recruitment business

[B-F-F-C]

I find it absolutely hilarious that some of you think that you're better qualified to choose the next head coach than a guy who's been in football for a number of years. 

 

Other than the fact you know Khari Jones was a QB for the WBB's, he has a wife named Justine and he enjoys acting,  What do you really know about the man?  Have you ever set down with him and discussed his coaching philosophy or what he thinks needs to be done to fix the teams problems?

 

Yeah I thought so.  

 

Many here came in their jeans when the WBB's hired Tim Burke.  Many were so happy when Hamilton passed him over which allowed us to scoop him up.   And those same posters couldn't wait until the team fired Burke.   

 

So lets leave the decision up to those that have more CFL experience than all of us combined.   

[NotoriousBIG]

I find it absolutely hilarious that some of you think that you're better qualified to choose the next head coach than a guy who's been in football for a number of years. 

 

Other than the fact you know Khari Jones was a QB for the WBB's, he has a wife named Justine and he enjoys acting,  What do you really know about the man?  Have you ever set down with him and discussed his coaching philosophy or what he thinks needs to be done to fix the teams problems?

 

Yeah I thought so.  

 

Many here came in their jeans when the WBB's hired Tim Burke.  Many were so happy when Hamilton passed him over which allowed us to scoop him up.   And those same posters couldn't wait until the team fired Burke.   

 

So lets leave the decision up to those that have more CFL experience than all of us combined.   

 

While I respect the spirit of your position, that was, without question, the most laughable example of an Appeal to Authority that I've ever seen. 

 

Check this -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

 

As the kids say, "logic fail."

[SPuDS]

I find it absolutely hilarious that some of you think that you're better qualified to choose the next head coach than a guy who's been in football for a number of years.

Other than the fact you know Khari Jones was a QB for the WBB's, he has a wife named Justine and he enjoys acting, What do you really know about the man? Have you ever set down with him and discussed his coaching philosophy or what he thinks needs to be done to fix the teams problems?

Yeah I thought so.

Many here came in their jeans when the WBB's hired Tim Burke. Many were so happy when Hamilton passed him over which allowed us to scoop him up. And those same posters couldn't wait until the team fired Burke.

So lets leave the decision up to those that have more CFL experience than all of us combined.

While I respect the spirit of your position, that was, without question, the most laughable example of an Appeal to Authority that I've ever seen.

Check this -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

As the kids say, "logic fail."

there isnt a single universe or dimension where i would trust anyone on this board over Miller, Burke, Taman, Murphy or Bauer when they were to suggest on who to hire on the simple fact that everyone of those guys has forgotten more about football that anyone here could hope to learn (with the possible exception of any current or former players or coaches lurking)

to suggest otherwise is simply top dumb to comprehend..

[B-F-F-C]

I can't use the "quote" functionality but this is a response to brice dream's post. 

 

So what has Miller done since he's taken on the role that has caused you concern that he wont make the right decision?   He had a long career in the league and he's probably interviewed more prospective employees in his lifetime than most people ever will.  

 

I just don't see what he's done to deserve the mistrust.  Except to accept the job of the President of the WBB's that for some reason the fans seem to have a mistrust for. 

 

It's too bad.

[17to85]

The most intriguing thing about khari jones as head coach is that we know from his time as a player that he's a leader and I think we really haven't had a head coach that is a real leader like that who can inspire players in a long time. 

[Onyenegecha]

 

I find it absolutely hilarious that some of you think that you're better qualified to choose the next head coach than a guy who's been in football for a number of years. 

 

Other than the fact you know Khari Jones was a QB for the WBB's, he has a wife named Justine and he enjoys acting,  What do you really know about the man?  Have you ever set down with him and discussed his coaching philosophy or what he thinks needs to be done to fix the teams problems?

 

Yeah I thought so.  

 

Many here came in their jeans when the WBB's hired Tim Burke.  Many were so happy when Hamilton passed him over which allowed us to scoop him up.   And those same posters couldn't wait until the team fired Burke.   

 

So lets leave the decision up to those that have more CFL experience than all of us combined.   

 

While I respect the spirit of your position, that was, without question, the most laughable example of an Appeal to Authority that I've ever seen. 

 

Check this -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

 

As the kids say, "logic fail."

 

 

Except, in this specific case (the one where Wade Miller makes football-ops decisions) it isn't a logic fail because he IS a subject matter expert, being a former football player. He's not Feterik or Buchko, where someone is "deferring to the boss because he's the boss". Miller is someone, based on his prior experience, who is capable of making that decision and just happens to be the boss, and not the other way around.

 

It's the GMs job to choose the coach. If the HC is picked by Miller instead I may not agree with the optics, but that doesn't necessarily mean I'll disagree with the choice.

[B-F-F-C]

Onyenegecha...good post.  But using good ol' fashioned logic is lost on some posters.   :) :)

[NotoriousBIG]

 

 

I find it absolutely hilarious that some of you think that you're better qualified to choose the next head coach than a guy who's been in football for a number of years. 

 

Other than the fact you know Khari Jones was a QB for the WBB's, he has a wife named Justine and he enjoys acting,  What do you really know about the man?  Have you ever set down with him and discussed his coaching philosophy or what he thinks needs to be done to fix the teams problems?

 

Yeah I thought so.  

 

Many here came in their jeans when the WBB's hired Tim Burke.  Many were so happy when Hamilton passed him over which allowed us to scoop him up.   And those same posters couldn't wait until the team fired Burke.   

 

So lets leave the decision up to those that have more CFL experience than all of us combined.   

 

While I respect the spirit of your position, that was, without question, the most laughable example of an Appeal to Authority that I've ever seen. 

 

Check this -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

 

As the kids say, "logic fail."

 

 

Except, in this specific case (the one where Wade Miller makes football-ops decisions) it isn't a logic fail because he IS a subject matter expert, being a former football player. He's not Feterik or Buchko, where someone is "deferring to the boss because he's the boss". Miller is someone, based on his prior experience, who is capable of making that decision and just happens to be the boss, and not the other way around.

 

It's the GMs job to choose the coach. If the HC is picked by Miller instead I may not agree with the optics, but that doesn't necessarily mean I'll disagree with the choice.

 

 

Not to sidetrack things guys but you're incorrect -- it was still an appeal to authority, and therefore, a logical fallacy. 

 

Fallacious examples of using the appeal include:

• cases where the authority is not a subject-matter expert   (Here I would agree, Miller is an expert on the CFL, at least more than any of us)
• cases where there is no consensus among experts in the subject matter (This is debatable)
• any appeal to authority used in the context of deductive reasoning.  (THIS is where "Miller is an expert so do what he says" is a logical fallacy -- see below)

 

In the context of deductive arguments ..... authorities are not necessarily correct about judgments related to their field of expertise. Though reliable authorities are correct in judgments related to their area of expertise more often than laypersons, they can still come to the wrong judgments through error, bias or dishonesty.

Thus, the appeal to authority is at best a probabilistic rather than an absolute argument for establishing facts.

 

Error, bias, or dishonesty. See how simply deferring to Miller outright without being objective isn't wise, especially the bias area?

 

For Pete's sake, we just lived through 3 years of In Mack We Trust -- because he was with the Bombers in our glory yeas, been in pro football for 25, and has a ring in the NFL, but still did a TERRIBLE job --- and now you're suggesting we blindly switch to In Miller We Trust?

 

I say we need higher standards moving forward. 

[HardCoreBlue]

I find it absolutely hilarious that some of you think that you're better qualified to choose the next head coach than a guy who's been in football for a number of years. 

 

Other than the fact you know Khari Jones was a QB for the WBB's, he has a wife named Justine and he enjoys acting,  What do you really know about the man?  Have you ever set down with him and discussed his coaching philosophy or what he thinks needs to be done to fix the teams problems?

 

Yeah I thought so.  

 

Many here came in their jeans when the WBB's hired Tim Burke.  Many were so happy when Hamilton passed him over which allowed us to scoop him up.   And those same posters couldn't wait until the team fired Burke.   

 

So lets leave the decision up to those that have more CFL experience than all of us combined.   

I'm always perplexed when posters post things like this. We're stating opinions, sometimes based in fact, sometimes not, sometimes using our perspective, sometimes not, knowing we will have no say in the decision.

Is this just a nice way at telling people to shut-up? 

Anyways, no thanks on Khari. A poster said this about Tim Burke and I think it applies to Khari Jones: "The Winnipeg BlueBomber Football Organization is not a coaching school'. It's one of the best lines I heard all year this year.  

[Mr Dee]

Brice Dream:

 

I noticed you skimmed over this part ""are correct in judgments related to their area of expertise more often than laypersons" and that was the point, I believe.

 

B-F-F-C:

"So lets leave the decision up to those that have more CFL experience than all of us combined."  

 

It's not necessarily who we hire, but rather, how well they, and those they hire, do their jobs.

[Onyenegecha]

 

 

 

I find it absolutely hilarious that some of you think that you're better qualified to choose the next head coach than a guy who's been in football for a number of years. 

 

Other than the fact you know Khari Jones was a QB for the WBB's, he has a wife named Justine and he enjoys acting,  What do you really know about the man?  Have you ever set down with him and discussed his coaching philosophy or what he thinks needs to be done to fix the teams problems?

 

Yeah I thought so.  

 

Many here came in their jeans when the WBB's hired Tim Burke.  Many were so happy when Hamilton passed him over which allowed us to scoop him up.   And those same posters couldn't wait until the team fired Burke.   

 

So lets leave the decision up to those that have more CFL experience than all of us combined.   

 

While I respect the spirit of your position, that was, without question, the most laughable example of an Appeal to Authority that I've ever seen. 

 

Check this -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

 

As the kids say, "logic fail."

 

 

Except, in this specific case (the one where Wade Miller makes football-ops decisions) it isn't a logic fail because he IS a subject matter expert, being a former football player. He's not Feterik or Buchko, where someone is "deferring to the boss because he's the boss". Miller is someone, based on his prior experience, who is capable of making that decision and just happens to be the boss, and not the other way around.

 

It's the GMs job to choose the coach. If the HC is picked by Miller instead I may not agree with the optics, but that doesn't necessarily mean I'll disagree with the choice.

 

 

Not to sidetrack things guys but you're incorrect -- it was still an appeal to authority, and therefore, a logical fallacy. 

 

Fallacious examples of using the appeal include:

• cases where the authority is not a subject-matter expert   (Here I would agree, Miller is an expert on the CFL, at least more than any of us)
• cases where there is no consensus among experts in the subject matter (This is debatable)
• any appeal to authority used in the context of deductive reasoning.  (THIS is where "Miller is an expert so do what he says" is a logical fallacy -- see below)

 

In the context of deductive arguments ..... authorities are not necessarily correct about judgments related to their field of expertise. Though reliable authorities are correct in judgments related to their area of expertise more often than laypersons, they can still come to the wrong judgments through error, bias or dishonesty.

Thus, the appeal to authority is at best a probabilistic rather than an absolute argument for establishing facts.

 

Error, bias, or dishonesty. See how simply deferring to Miller outright without being objective isn't wise, especially the bias area?

 

For Pete's sake, we just lived through 3 years of In Mack We Trust -- because he was with the Bombers in our glory yeas, been in pro football for 25, and has a ring in the NFL, but still did a TERRIBLE job --- and now you're suggesting we blindly switch to In Miller We Trust?

 

I say we need higher standards moving forward. 

 

 

If trusting the decision purely because Miller the CEO made it, I would agree. But I'm not sure that's why people wouldn't necessarily disagree with him. I'm definitely not suggesting IMWT2, but what I am suggesting is that we shouldn't go in the outright opposite direction, where the team flips and 180s from the previous regime just for the sake of it. Because that's how we got Reinbold as our post-Cal face of the franchise.

 

Is Khari Jones the right choice? I'm not qualified to make that decision. But Miller is. Does that mean he will make the right decision? Not necessarily, but deferring to him isn't a logical fallacy because he IS a subject matter expert.

 

I get what you're saying, in that you shouldn't trust the boss just because he's the boss. But I don't trust this decision to the CEO, I trust this decision to a career CFLer.

 

Bottom line is they should get the BEST guy, regardless of optics. While everyone (myself included) fears they'll get an unqualified guy just cause the candidate has friends in high places, I equally fear they'll write off qualified guys because of the optics and to appease a sometimes unpleasable fan base.

 

Either way, semantics. I just know that if Buchko hired the HC I'd be furious, but if Miller does, I'm okay with it.

[B-F-F-C]

Look at the absolute screw up hire made by Jim Popp, who many would agree is considered one of the best GM's in the league.   It happens and sometimes if you have that past relationship with the candidate,  it t least takes away the uncertainty of being able to work together.  

 

However, that doesn't override all the other attributes that the candidate brings to the table.  

[NotoriousBIG]

I still think Miller is a great fit for CEO of the club and while I'm leery of his side businesses getting a lot of contracts with the team, I think his business savvy will only help.

 

But the quicker he hires an experienced GM who's been in similar rebuilds to direct this team (and get the hell out of the spotlight) the better.

 

Playing 10 years in the league makes you a smart player and experienced teammate (and much more knowledgable than the average fan) but it doesn't mean you can coach and certainly doesn't mean you can GM. 

[tacklewasher]

 

Not to sidetrack things guys but you're incorrect -- it was still an appeal to authority, and therefore, a logical fallacy. 

 

Without getting into the specifics here, an appeal to authority is not neccesarily a logical fallacy. An appeal to authority on the subject matter the perosn is an authority on, is not a logical fallacy. The fallacy only occurrs whenre the authority is not an authority in the matter being discussed.

 

For example. If I argue that it is not possible to travel faster than the speed of light, and quote Einstien as an authority, it is not a logical fallacy.

If I argue for or against the existence of God, and quote Einstein (interesting the both sides do this), then this is a fallacy.

 

You can make an appropriate appeal to authority.

[DR. CFL]

IfMiller is going to decide who the HC, as somehave indicated, then why are wasting money and potentially hiring a GM who will have no apparent authority to make decisions?

[B-F-F-C]

Miller isn't hiring the head coach.  He has said publicly that the new GM will be announced and that they will hire the head coach.

[17to85]

And why wouldn't Miller hire a GM who has a similar way of thinking as himself anyway? It's not like he's going to go out and get a guy who is totally at odds with his ideas. 

[NotoriousBIG]

 

You can make an appropriate appeal to authority.

 

'

And refusing to acknowledge the concerns of fans by saying "I don't care what you guys say, the guys making these decisions have way more CFL experience than any of you" is not an example of one. 

[Noeller]

 

 

You can make an appropriate appeal to authority.

 

'

And refusing to acknowledge the concerns of fans by saying "I don't care what you guys say, the guys making these decisions have way more CFL experience than any of you" is not an example of one. 

 

This statement is completely fine in my books...

[NotoriousBIG]

 

 

 

You can make an appropriate appeal to authority.

 

'

And refusing to acknowledge the concerns of fans by saying "I don't care what you guys say, the guys making these decisions have way more CFL experience than any of you" is not an example of one. 

 

This statement is completely fine in my books...

 

 

Did you get that IMWT tattoo removed from your backside or just going to run with Miller?

[Noeller]

I sincerely believe that if you think you know more than the people in charge, you really need to step back and re-evaluate your life...

[NotoriousBIG]

I sincerely believe that if you think you know more than the people in charge, you really need to step back and re-evaluate your life...

 

You can't possibly be this dim. I swear you couldn't find a point in a needle factory. 

[NotoriousBIG]

* Takes a deep breath *

 

Noeller, the point isn't whether Wade Miller or Joe Mack know more than the average fan -- of course they do -- it's that saying "I'm going to accept whatever these guys say cause they are CFL authorities" is a really weak, fallacious argument.