Blue Bombers -- 2025/26 Offseason -- Discussion Thread

[wbbfan]

52 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

Flat out, does anybody here seriously think that WJ is going to take a cut from $200,000 to say $120,000-$140,000? Secondly does anybody see the club actually limiting him to 50% of the snaps if here?

First question, that's why I think we are in this situation where he hasn't resigned. I think he will need to go to free agency to see, teams are willing to overspend on ends coming off career years, not ones off multi-year career slumps.

  Now, he and his family are deeply entrenched in Winnipeg. I don't think they want to leave. The initial knee-jerk reaction of "I'm not taking a pay cut!" gives way to the reality that his career is soon to end, and his family is cemented in this area. He likely has some cushy post-playing gigs lined up here, leaving now to chase some cash could really cost him in his post-playing life.\

  We did the exact same thing to Jeffcoat. He thought he would get much better offers and didn't, despite coming off a strong year; his limited games scared teams off. He chose to retire rather than play for cheap. We also played hardball with key DL free agents like Sayles, Nevis, Stove, Kongbo, etc. I would take any of those guys and Jeffcoat at the point we let them go, over WJ today. I'd pay more for those other guys than WJ, and WJ earned more than any of those guys would get. 

For the 2nd, I can't say for sure, as much as I would love to know the answer to that.

Previous to this year, the thought of us walking from Jake and Kola was a pipe dream. The DL is on a rebuild, we need to bring in an outside FA, and we have some hungry young talents.

  Also, when our D was at its best, WJ was on limited reps. 19/21, we rotated the DL more than anyone does currently. We carried essentially 2 full DLs, and they all played meaningful snaps. And that is how the rest of the league runs their DL now. We built the paradigm, then lost the keys. Really, we lost the bodies, and our staff decided it's better to carry 7ol and a FB for short yardage sets that we never struggled with, rather than carry a full DL and rotate those guys in to take meaningful snaps. 

 

Edited yesterday at 09:20 PM by wbbfan

[JohnnyAbonny]

6 hours ago, bigg jay said:

Demski for sure but Clercius? He's been a bit nicked up at times but hasn't missed a game AFAIK?

Actually yeah, I was thinking of Wheatfall. Point remains on Demski though, and our backup Canadian receivers currently being quite sub-par. 

[Goalie]

3 hours ago, Tracker said:

Those players who successfully transitioned into coaching were good at their positions, and Thomas was barely adequate when at his best and had no techique except bull-rushing. When that failed, he simply stood there and hoped the play would come to him. In the last couple of years, standing there was his go-to technique.

lol. Name one. Honestly. One. Just one cuz I can name 50 who weren’t. 
 

including some of the greatest coaches of all time like bud grant John madden and some dude named Vince Lombardi who played never played pro football. I mean really. Buck. Dinwiddie. Steinhauer millanovich macoica. I mean 90 percent of the coaches In both pro football leagues were just average to below average players or not at all even. Andy Reid sure was a hell of a player eh, I mean really. 

Edited yesterday at 09:36 PM by Goalie

[wbbfan]

6 minutes ago, JohnnyAbonny said:

Actually yeah, I was thinking of Wheatfall. Point remains on Demski though, and our backup Canadian receivers currently being quite sub-par. 

Clercius has been exceptional in his extremely limited role. I've got no concerns with him pencilled in as the last wr and 2nd Canadian for this year. 

 Now we do certainly need to draft some Canadian WRs behind that, preferably guys who can outrun slow offensive linemen. I think we can address this either with quantity picks or a quality pick. 

We could also take some swings on guys in free agency, bumping Clercius to a rotational role. Guys like Brissett, Gittens, maybe Ungerer, or Nield. We could take a flyer on Baker for depth. He hasn't been healthy, but that means he should be dirt cheap, and as a last wr/back up thats great value. We could bring back Bolo, again a low-cost guy who could slide back and forth between the last wr and the backup. I'd love that. We could also jump into the full-on reclamation mode pile with Bruggeling. He still has a tremendous combination of size and athleticism. 

11 minutes ago, Goalie said:

lol. Name one. Honestly. One. Just one cuz I can name 50 who weren’t. 
 

including some of the greatest coaches of all time like bud grant John madden and some dude named Vince Lombardi who played never played pro football. I mean really. Buck. Dinwiddie. Steinhauer millanovich macoica. I mean 90 percent of the coaches In both pro football leagues were just average to below average players or not at all even. Andy Reid sure was a hell of a player eh, I mean really. 

Didn't we just go through this discussion, too? Am I crazy? Way more guys succeed in coaching who failed at their positions than all-time greats. 

Jake also wasn't always some awful mess of a player. He was a very good rotational guy and fringe starter at one point. Being as effective as he was at bullrushing and playing the run, in his prime, requires a lot of technique. The problem has never been his trade craft. It's been that he is so slow for maybe 3 years now; he is lucky to get in contact with an OL on a deep pocket when pass rushing. He's not reggie white or von miller or some thing, but those guys seldom become great coaches at the position. 

[bryan35]

16 minutes ago, Goalie said:

lol. Name one. Honestly. One. Just one cuz I can name 50 who weren’t. 
 

including some of the greatest coaches of all time like bud grant John madden and some dude named Vince Lombardi who played never played pro football. I mean really. Buck. Dinwiddie. Steinhauer millanovich macoica. I mean 90 percent of the coaches In both pro football leagues were just average to below average players or not at all even. Andy Reid sure was a hell of a player eh, I mean really. 

Oshea was pretty good. 

[17to85]

37 minutes ago, Goalie said:

lol. Name one. Honestly. One. Just one cuz I can name 50 who weren’t. 

Dave Dickenson, Mike Oshea.... but yeah being a good player isn't a prerequisite for being a good coach.

[bryan35]

Jason Maas. Debatable on both aspects.

[HardCoreBlue]

18 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Dave Dickenson, Mike Oshea.... but yeah being a good player isn't a prerequisite for being a good coach.

Khari Jones if he gets another shot?

[Goalie]

5 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Khari Jones if he gets another shot?

Khari hasn’t really had much success. Wouldn’t hate to see him here as qb coach tho. 

25 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Dave Dickenson, Mike Oshea.... but yeah being a good player isn't a prerequisite for being a good coach.

Here’s one. Mike Ditka. But there’s more who weren’t. 

[HardCoreBlue]

Just now, Goalie said:

Khari hasn’t really had much success. Wouldn’t hate to see him here as qb coach tho. 

I'm thinking that given another shot and what he's learned as a coach he would be a more improved coach. Continous improvement kind of thing.

[Tracker]

1 hour ago, wbbfan said:

First question, that's why I think we are in this situation where he hasn't resigned. I think he will need to go to free agency to see, teams are willing to overspend on ends coming off career years, not ones off multi-year career slumps.

  Now, he and his family are deeply entrenched in Winnipeg. I don't think they want to leave. The initial knee-jerk reaction of "I'm not taking a pay cut!" gives way to the reality that his career is soon to end, and his family is cemented in this area. He likely has some cushy post-playing gigs lined up here, leaving now to chase some cash could really cost him in his post-playing life.\

  We did the exact same thing to Jeffcoat. He thought he would get much better offers and didn't, despite coming off a strong year; his limited games scared teams off. He chose to retire rather than play for cheap. We also played hardball with key DL free agents like Sayles, Nevis, Stove, Kongbo, etc. I would take any of those guys and Jeffcoat at the point we let them go, over WJ today. I'd pay more for those other guys than WJ, and WJ earned more than any of those guys would get. 

For the 2nd, I can't say for sure, as much as I would love to know the answer to that.

Previous to this year, the thought of us walking from Jake and Kola was a pipe dream. The DL is on a rebuild, we need to bring in an outside FA, and we have some hungry young talents.

  Also, when our D was at its best, WJ was on limited reps. 19/21, we rotated the DL more than anyone does currently. We carried essentially 2 full DLs, and they all played meaningful snaps. And that is how the rest of the league runs their DL now. We built the paradigm, then lost the keys. Really, we lost the bodies, and our staff decided it's better to carry 7ol and a FB for short yardage sets that we never struggled with, rather than carry a full DL and rotate those guys in to take meaningful snaps. 

 

Whether or not Willie takes a big pay cut likely depends on what other options he has.

[SpeedFlex27]

7 hours ago, bigg jay said:

Was it not Patterson?  I thought he was here for 5 years so 2021 would have been his 1st year with us.

It was Darryl Patterson who did a very good job when Osh & Walters gave him decent players to coach. Our DL in 2021 & 22 was excellent. .

[Tracker]

4 hours ago, johnzo said:

you keep saying this

I do. A player who relies on intelligence rather than pure athleticism would be a good candiate to become a coach, and those Ex-CFL players who are head coaches were good (not necessarily great) are in place in Saskatchewan, BC, Calgary, Montreal and now Ottawa. There will always be the odd anomaly.

[rebusrankin]

Ryan Dinwiddie, Chris Jones, Corey Mace, Marc Trestman, Rick Campbell and Cory Chamblin all won Grey Cups as Head Coaches in the past 20 years and none of them had amazing pro careers. Some didn't even have pro careers. 

[SpeedFlex27]

2 hours ago, wbbfan said:

First question, that's why I think we are in this situation where he hasn't resigned. I think he will need to go to free agency to see, teams are willing to overspend on ends coming off career years, not ones off multi-year career slumps.

  Now, he and his family are deeply entrenched in Winnipeg. I don't think they want to leave. The initial knee-jerk reaction of "I'm not taking a pay cut!" gives way to the reality that his career is soon to end, and his family is cemented in this area. He likely has some cushy post-playing gigs lined up here, leaving now to chase some cash could really cost him in his post-playing life.\

  We did the exact same thing to Jeffcoat. He thought he would get much better offers and didn't, despite coming off a strong year; his limited games scared teams off. He chose to retire rather than play for cheap. We also played hardball with key DL free agents like Sayles, Nevis, Stove, Kongbo, etc. I would take any of those guys and Jeffcoat at the point we let them go, over WJ today. I'd pay more for those other guys than WJ, and WJ earned more than any of those guys would get. 

For the 2nd, I can't say for sure, as much as I would love to know the answer to that.

Previous to this year, the thought of us walking from Jake and Kola was a pipe dream. The DL is on a rebuild, we need to bring in an outside FA, and we have some hungry young talents.

  Also, when our D was at its best, WJ was on limited reps. 19/21, we rotated the DL more than anyone does currently. We carried essentially 2 full DLs, and they all played meaningful snaps. And that is how the rest of the league runs their DL now. We built the paradigm, then lost the keys. Really, we lost the bodies, and our staff decided it's better to carry 7ol and a FB for short yardage sets that we never struggled with, rather than carry a full DL and rotate those guys in to take meaningful snaps. 

 

And we haven't won a championship since. games are won on the LOS. That's something that never changes. 

[sweep the leg]

2 hours ago, wbbfan said:

 

We could also take some swings on guys in free agency, bumping Clercius to a rotational role. Guys like Brissett, Gittens, maybe Ungerer, or Nield. We could take a flyer on Baker for depth. He hasn't been healthy, but that means he should be dirt cheap, and as a last wr/back up thats great value. 

 

Imo KSB won’t be cheap. If he was willing to take a bargain deal, he’d likely stay with the Riders. Otherwise I expect him to get a healthy deal somewhere. I expect him to be well over $100k.

 

[sweep the leg]

Interesting comments about tc given the opinions of some here that our camp is too soft.

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

It was Darryl Patterson who did a very good job when Osh & Walters gave him decent players to coach. Our DL in 2021 & 22 was excellent. .

he got tons of talent, but he didn’t push any one to a higher level then when they came in. We just had great talent on the dl at that point. 

10 minutes ago, sweep the leg said:

Imo KSB won’t be cheap. If he was willing to take a bargain deal, he’d likely stay with the Riders. Otherwise I expect him to get a healthy deal somewhere. I expect him to be well over $100k.

 

100-135k ish is pretty cheap for a starting ni wr who isn’t the wide side guy who blocks as many plays as he runs.

But since his break out year, he’s played just 28 games in 3 years. He hasn’t come close to the same level of production since then, and never broken 1k yards never had 70 or more catches and only 5 tds once. 

 He’s a perfect candidate for an incentive laden deal with a low base structure. 

[SpeedFlex27]

1 minute ago, wbbfan said:

he got tons of talent, but he didn’t push any one to a higher level then when they came in. We just had great talent on the dl at that point. 

100-135k ish is pretty cheap for a starting ni wr who isn’t the wide side guy who blocks as many plays as he runs.

But since his break out year, he’s played just 28 games in 3 years. He hasn’t come close to the same level of production since then, and never broken 1k yards never had 70 or more catches and only 5 tds once. 

 He’s a perfect candidate for an incentive laden deal with a low base structure. 

I'd take KSB in a heartbeat. Especially if the price is right. Signing here would blow Rider fans minds. It would be sweet. 

2 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I'd take KSB in a heartbeat. Especially if the price is right. Signing here would blow Rider fans minds. It would be sweet. 

Just an adendum, the loss of Donte Meyers may bring KSB's value up unless the Riders target another team's free agent receiver. 

[SpeedFlex27]

7 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

he got tons of talent, but he didn’t push any one to a higher level then when they came in. We just had great talent on the dl at that point. 

100-135k ish is pretty cheap for a starting ni wr who isn’t the wide side guy who blocks as many plays as he runs.

But since his break out year, he’s played just 28 games in 3 years. He hasn’t come close to the same level of production since then, and never broken 1k yards never had 70 or more catches and only 5 tds once. 

 He’s a perfect candidate for an incentive laden deal with a low base structure. 

Yet, he got an NFL shot. he's the perfect example of had the NFL & CFL had an agreement that if there was compensation paid would they have brought him in & worked him out? Same with Ajou Ajou?? He got to a NFL training camp for God know why?? Just an extra receiver at camp. 

[wbbfan]

10 minutes ago, sweep the leg said:

Interesting comments about tc given the opinions of some here that our camp is too soft.

Previous camps were soft, this one was certainly more competitive. It’s also a general issue, that practices are glorified walk through. TC isn’t what it used to be, two a days with high levels of contact. But that is progress, tcs used to be horror shows. Maybe the only good thing to come from chris jones. 

We need more meaningful practices with pads etc. 

 

I see that complaint about having to be in camp and wearing pads every day as soft af. 

I hope we keep bringing the score up. 

[Goalie]

Boo hoo really from the bitter obviously released player from camp they got that quote from. 

[SpeedFlex27]

5 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Previous camps were soft, this one was certainly more competitive. It’s also a general issue, that practices are glorified walk through. TC isn’t what it used to be, two a days with high levels of contact. But that is progress, tcs used to be horror shows. Maybe the only good thing to come from chris jones. 

We need more meaningful practices with pads etc. 

 

I see that complaint about having to be in camp and wearing pads every day as soft af. 

I hope we keep bringing the score up. 

Agreed. they do that with kids today. The practices are soft. Kids go thud in practice learning to tackle which is unrealistic. Which may be safer at practice  but games are full speed. I see 11 & 12 year olds all the way to high school age kids getting injured because suddenly they're going full speed when they never did in practice. Injuries happen. The games now are tougherthan practice. I've talked to guys I used to coach with telling me that today some kids don't quit after practice but after a game. They're scared. 

Edited 22 hours ago by SpeedFlex27

[HardCoreBlue]

28 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

And we haven't won a championship since. games are won on the LOS. That's something that never changes. 

I know why but ironically 70% to 80 % of them on the LOS aren’t the highest paid guys.

[SpeedFlex27]

Just now, HardCoreBlue said:

I know why but ironically 70% to 80 % of them on the LOS aren’t the highest paid guys.

Canadian OL are the highest paid group collectively across the board.