3 turds plus ch winds of change

[17to85]

3 minutes ago, Tracker said:

The season is lost, we've been soundly beaten by our arch-rivals twice in a row, and the message has to be sent that incompetence will not be tolerated

That's a bit dramatic... for all the stupid things going on both those games were still there for the taking without said stupid things.

Start with some roster changes to get the best out of the group you have and go from there.

[17to85]

32 minutes ago, sportmentary2012 said:

Is Willie just saving himself for the playoffs or simply past his prime. Even then he took plays off. 

The reason I pick him is because he's a supposed leader, and you don't send as much of a message just benching anyone. Like Thomas just sucks, but he gives it his all. You sit down a star for inconsistent effort it forces everyone to look in the mirror. 

[deepsixemtoboyd]

14 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Well I bet you we see some more intensity if the slacking veterans start losing jobs.

Hmm… two issues I see with this… Number one, what evidence is there that the veterans will “start losing jobs”? The best predictor of future behaviour is past behavior.

Secondly, not sure how much intensity is the issue or ultimately matters if the other team is just flat out better than you. That’s what Milt implied pregame. I mean, to overstate the situation to make my point, it doesn’t matter how intense I play against Jannik Sinner… I’m not taking a point. 😁

The riders are just better than the bombers. The stamps are just better than the bombers. And Edmonton and BC are comparable to the bombers.

It’s hard to accept after the run we had, but we just ain’t that good.

[Stickem]

CLEAN HOUSE....it's a short ride to the bottom and that's where we are headed....All of, or most of the warts this club has, was clearly evident in that stinker....I have to give credit to the guys who are still trying to keep this club credible and that's just a few....Cripes even Sergio crapped the bed and that's the clue that some players are starting to see the writing on the wall...I expect that will or most likely be the last full house we'll see in awhile .....most likely have one in the Cup game....you know the game we aren't going to be in..I think Osh better be preparing for his exit along with the gm

[17to85]

15 minutes ago, deepsixemtoboyd said:

Hmm… two issues I see with this… Number one, what evidence is there that the veterans will “start losing jobs”? The best predictor of future behaviour is past behavior.

Secondly, not sure how much intensity is the issue or ultimately matters if the other team is just flat out better than you. That’s what Milt implied pregame. I mean, to overstate the situation to make my point, it doesn’t matter how intense I play against Jannik Sinner… I’m not taking a point. 😁

The riders are just better than the bombers. The stamps are just better than the bombers. And Edmonton and BC are comparable to the bombers.

It’s hard to accept after the run we had, but we just ain’t that good.

The biggest problem this team has is complacency so yeah I'd rather see a team losing giving it their all than a team losing because "well we'll get em next time"

[deepsixemtoboyd]

18 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

The biggest problem this team has is complacency so yeah I'd rather see a team losing giving it their all than a team losing because "well we'll get em next time"

But what is your evidence that the reason we are losing is because of complacency versus the other team having better personnel and coaching?

or maybe we’re just misunderstanding each other…

Because I agree that coach O’Shea has a “just a few things to correct and we’ll get them next time“ attitude. And so I agree that making roster changes would be helpful.

I just think that this regime has made it clear that it’s not willing to do that and also that in pro sports the issue is more likely about personnel than it is about intensity or complacency.

Edited 3 hours ago by deepsixemtoboyd

[3rdand1.5]

We are good enough along the lines....full stop, if we had the lines we had in 2019, we are probably easy in first.

We have let guys across both lines go for bigger paydays, and haven't drafted strong at either position for a few years.....thus we are now weak across the lines

Fix the lines and we get back to winning....look at The Sask and Cal D-lines as an example, they both take over games and no coincidence they are #1 and #2 in the league....

[Booch]

Complacency started with coaching...and seaped into the players as a result 

Part our problem is designating where/who we were using with ratio...and that was that...set in stone...and due to that let probably better...and obviously younger talent go...stayed with status quo...in some instances sub par players...or old and injury prone and didnt develop anyone

We also for whatever lame reason insist on extra Canadians where they are not adequate..no offense to Canadians but there only so many who are legit starter quality...we have prob 3..4 on roster who are not...and then we need to roster backup to them as Canadian who are even worse...bad recipe...that's what u gonna also get with a Canadian HC who has this Canadian Bias and seems to be wanting to prove some kind of point...which has failed

We need to set ratio as per how camp dictates and the best guys take spots...not pre determine it before a single rep in camp takes place...and that goes with our vets too

That's where we gotta start...and in a semi rebuild/gutting...history in pro football has shown 80% of time you start with Coach...and that's what we need to do...12 yrs is eons as a HC in same spot...especially a stubborn and at times arrogant one who thinks his way...is the way and won't deviate

Wj is a good piece...key word piece and is only as good as players around him...and for most part they not good...or the better ones can't get on roster...he needs to be the augment rotation guy now to continually spell of 2 young studs

All the good dominant teams focus on pretty much mostly import dlines...save for the random Cdn stud...we have no real cdn stud...dress 2 additional duds...and play them ad nauseum for no effect...basically nullify our ends...then play a stupid scheme teams have figured out...

There's a start

Also...maybe we need to facilitate a trade with an asset or 2...or a guy we all love to infuse some talent in a key position or 2

That or don't treat FA like we did this yr..

13 minutes ago, 3rdand1.5 said:

We are good enough along the lines....full stop, if we had the lines we had in 2019, we are probably easy in first.

We have let guys across both lines go for bigger paydays, and haven't drafted strong at either position for a few years.....thus we are now weak across the lines

Fix the lines and we get back to winning....look at The Sask and Cal D-lines as an example, they both take over games and no coincidence they are #1 and #2 in the league....

Cause they play legit studs...mainly Americans and don't over use weak Canadians 

Also...those teams don't continually rotate guys in and out like we do...switching positions...nobody...especially on the dline allowed to.get in a groove or rhythm 

[wbbfan]

2 hours ago, sportmentary2012 said:

Is Willie just saving himself for the playoffs or simply past his prime. Even then he took plays off. 

When he faces a tackle he can’t beat or faces double teams he gets really soft. hes so geared towards pass knock downs he barely tries to pass rush any more. which makes it a lot harder on the rest of the dl. then we basically always have 1 often 2 dts on the field who can’t pass rush either. 

hes still able to turn it on an dominate, if he’s kept in one on ones. 

I think he needs a wake up call to play each game like it’s the play offs, focus on pass rush and play the lanes with in his rushing, needs to be played with a competent pro quality dl, and needs to be rotated. He should be our naturalized canadian. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

18 minutes ago, Booch said:

Complacency started with coaching...and seaped into the players as a result 

Part our problem is designating where/who we were using with ratio...and that was that...set in stone...and due to that let probably better...and obviously younger talent go...stayed with status quo...in some instances sub par players...or old and injury prone and didnt develop anyone

We also for whatever lame reason insist on extra Canadians where they are not adequate..no offense to Canadians but there only so many who are legit starter quality...we have prob 3..4 on roster who are not...and then we need to roster backup to them as Canadian who are even worse...bad recipe...that's what u gonna also get with a Canadian HC who has this Canadian Bias and seems to be wanting to prove some kind of point...which has failed

We need to set ratio as per how camp dictates and the best guys take spots...not pre determine it before a single rep in camp takes place...and that goes with our vets too

That's where we gotta start...and in a semi rebuild/gutting...history in pro football has shown 80% of time you start with Coach...and that's what we need to do...12 yrs is eons as a HC in same spot...especially a stubborn and at times arrogant one who thinks his way...is the way and won't deviate

Wj is a good piece...key word piece and is only as good as players around him...and for most part they not good...or the better ones can't get on roster...he needs to be the augment rotation guy now to continually spell of 2 young studs

All the good dominant teams focus on pretty much mostly import dlines...save for the random Cdn stud...we have no real cdn stud...dress 2 additional duds...and play them ad nauseum for no effect...basically nullify our ends...then play a stupid scheme teams have figured out...

There's a start

Also...maybe we need to facilitate a trade with an asset or 2...or a guy we all love to infuse some talent in a key position or 2

That or don't treat FA like we did this yr..

Cause they play legit studs...mainly Americans and don't over use weak Canadians 

Also...those teams don't continually rotate guys in and out like we do...switching positions...nobody...especially on the dline allowed to.get in a groove or rhythm 

Sask is constant rotation on DL.  Which was also a strength here in the 2016-22 era.

They also use way more Canadians on D than we do.  Start 3 and regularly use 5.

[Booch]

3 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Sask is constant rotation on DL.  Which was also a strength here in the 2016-22 era.

They also use way more Canadians on D than we do.  Start 3 and regularly use 5.

Dline rotation yeah is huge...if its with guys who can play...and their dline is primary American...they have a global...and the one Canadian they drafted...but they also get minimal reps out of the 9 they listed

And our Cdn starters with reg reps on defence are weakest in league save for Lawson...there is that too

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

That's a bit dramatic... for all the stupid things going on both those games were still there for the taking without said stupid things.

Start with some roster changes to get the best out of the group you have and go from there.

I fear that if a couple of tweaks perks the team up a bit, that might be a signal to upper management that all is going to be well. The Blue have been sinking into mediocrity for the third year now and have been bypassed by the Riders (ugh), the Stamps and TiCats. There is nothing to lose by firing the authors of the decline and new coaches plus the roster changes most here have been advocating will give the fans hope instead of fatalism,

[sweep the leg]

13 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Of course you're not interested. You've been singing the praises of the Canadian Mafia for 12 years. Despite decisions that negatively affected the team by both Waters & O'Shea the past 3 years. Looks like they weren't as good as we thought &  just extremely lucky in 2019 & 2021 when all the pieces fell into place Twelve years. Time for a change. 

 

We were extremely lucky to be dominant for several years is quite a take. I get you’re mad, but that’s just nonsense.

[JuranBoldenRules]

4 minutes ago, sweep the leg said:

We were extremely lucky to be dominant for several years is quite a take. I get you’re mad, but that’s just nonsense.

Tim Burke was extremely unlucky.  Just needed another decade.

[JuranBoldenRules]

17 minutes ago, Tracker said:

I fear that if a couple of tweaks perks the team up a bit, that might be a signal to upper management that all is going to be well. The Blue have been sinking into mediocrity for the third year now and have been bypassed by the Riders (ugh), the Stamps and TiCats. There is nothing to lose by firing the authors of the decline and new coaches plus the roster changes most here have been advocating will give the fans hope instead of fatalism,

So who's the hotshot GM and Coach combo you want to lead us to the next era of glory?

There's a lot to lose in blowing up a front office that has proven itself more than capable of fielding dominant teams.  I mean in my entire lifetime we've had only a handful competent GM's and head coaches.

I think it is quite likely that the key people in that front office are ready to move on though, and that's a big part of what happens next.  Doubt many people in real life have done the exact same job for 12-13 years.  It's pretty unusual.

[Goalie]

6 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

I think most know this is a public discussion board to shoot the **** not a consultancy service for the WBB.

I hope so cuz yeah. Never gonna be a thing. 
 

wrestling fans might understand aew and tony khan vs WWE. Yeah it’s ugly. The fan ain’t doing so well. The fans dad tho gave him the money so it’s unlimited funds but it’s a mess. 

I feel both O’Shea and Walters Go. I don’t think they necessarily go elsewhere but I think they are done here after this season. Ottawa might make changes but everyone else prob not right. Us and Ottawa really. 
 

I hope Wade sticks around and makes the right hire cuz it better not be McManus as GM. That would be not good at all. Honestly. Who are the candidates? The next ones? Are there any or should we actually hope Osh and Walters are back next season but with more of a retool approach. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Goalie

[Mark H.]

Removed some posts in an attempt to keep things civil. 

[rebusrankin]

18 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Tim Burke was extremely unlucky.  Just needed another decade.

To get to 9-9?

[Goalie]

It’s the CFL. Retool the DL (that can start now even, start brining in guys) and retool the OL ( off season. Free agency. Maybe trade) and you know what the team prob beats Sask twice and Calgary atleast once. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Goalie

[Noeller]

15 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

So who's the hotshot GM and Coach combo you want to lead us to the next era of glory?

There's a lot to lose in blowing up a front office that has proven itself more than capable of fielding dominant teams.  I mean in my entire lifetime we've had only a handful competent GM's and head coaches.

I think it is quite likely that the key people in that front office are ready to move on though, and that's a big part of what happens next.  Doubt many people in real life have done the exact same job for 12-13 years.  It's pretty unusual.

I fully expect O'Shea to win at least one more cup as HC somewhere else... And it'll take us awhile to recover and rebuild.

[Brandon]

I dont think they need to clean house with Walters and O Shea.

They need a wake up call and definitely a new wave of players. Its the CFL you can change a team in just one off season. 

[Goalie]

2 minutes ago, Noeller said:

I fully expect O'Shea to win at least one more cup as HC somewhere else... And it'll take us awhile to recover and rebuild.

I’m not sure I see where. Dinwiddie going nowhere. Hamilton ain’t doing it. They are the cursed. Ottawa is the only option and they might be a bigger mess than us. I don’t think Ottawa is an O’Shea who perhaps is a good motivator and perhaps leader of men but in reality his decision making and roster management I think would bite him in his butt there also. Like what does O’Shea do? I mean besides everything according to booch and others. But besides that, what is he? He’s not an O coach. He’s not a D coach. He’s a sp teams coach. 

[Blue28]

Walters and Osh get another chance to right the ship next year. 

Move on from Hogan (OC), Mitchell* and Logan* now

Move on from some vets in the off season - we need new blood - Thomas, Bryant* (one of the best - but aging out), Gauthier, Streveler* (my current favorite Bomber - all heart - but diminishing returns/ or make him fight it out for third string), Dalton Shoen* (again all heart and skill, but body is failing him - very sad for him), Kolo (skill issue) - and have actual training camp battles - especially on the OL/DL - and draft a few potential starters on the OL/DL.

[JuranBoldenRules]

2 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I dont think they need to clean house with Walters and O Shea.

They need a wake up call and definitely a new wave of players. Its the CFL you can change a team in just one off season. 

Yeah just get rid of the sacred cows.  They've been doing it gradually but I think they need to take some control on guys who are even all-time, HOF players.  Like are we keeping Stanley Bryant at LT until he decides at age 72 that he's done?

1 minute ago, Goalie said:

I’m not sure I see where. Dinwiddie going nowhere. Hamilton ain’t doing it. They are the cursed. Ottawa is the only option and they might be a bigger mess than us. I don’t think Ottawa is an O’Shea who perhaps is a good motivator and perhaps leader of men but in reality his decision making and roster management I think would bite him in his butt there also. Like what does O’Shea do? I mean besides everything according to booch and others. But besides that, what is he? He’s not an O coach. He’s not a D coach. He’s a sp teams coach. 

I think one of the two likely walk and do something else for awhile.  Not thinking they'll go directly to another CFL team in the same role.

Also not sure Dinwiddie is solid.  If he makes it to next season he'll be the longest tenured Argos head coach since the 1940's.

[pw13]

5 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

 

Also not sure Dinwiddie is solid.  If he makes it to next season he'll be the longest tenured Argos head coach since the 1940's.

Bob O'Billovich coached the Argos for eight seasons (1982-89) before getting fired. Dinwiddie is now in his fifth season.