GDT- Bombers @ Toronto

[Tracker]

30 minutes ago, BomberBall. said:

I know what you’re saying about Zach’s 2nd pick not being his fault, it was a crazy sequence of bounces that were very unlucky, but he caused that by throwing high to an open receiver.  An easy throw that he needs to make.

I think Streveler has the tools, but I feel like someone needs to correct his mechanics…. I can’t think of many throws last night that he actually stepped into.  He’s almost always throwing flat footed or off his back foot.  He has a great arm, but he could make more throws on time if he got back to his fundamentals.

Streveler's awkward throwing while rolling out may not have been completely his fault. The Bomber o-line was being overrun and either he or Jackson may have decided that staying in the pocket and getting set was not a good idea.

3 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

That kind of decision making has been common the past few years & really, if things don't improve by September then heads should roll at the end of the season. Walters hasn't signed a new deal & he shouldn't be renewed. A new GM would decide if Osh kept his job. 

If any incoming GM who replaces Walters re-ups O'Shea, that would be a very bad omen.

[wbbfan]

11 hours ago, sweep the leg said:

Schoen getting healthy and Wilson coming back from the NFL would be two pretty big in-season improvements to the group. 

I have no confidence that schoen will be close to 100% this year. He’s back on the 6 after the first third. If we got insanely lucky and made the gc maybe he’s close for that game with a reasonable amount of rust off. 
 Short of some thing miraculous he shouldn’t be rushed to play and when he comes back should be eased in real slow if at all this year.
 We can’t afford to ruin him.  

51 minutes ago, Concept2 said:

I wonder if Miller and O’Shea would entertain a trade? Riders have a surplus of receivers (Bane and KSB returning soon). Bombers could send a O-lineman in return? Just spitballing here. 
Hope ZC gets back to good health, a little concerning seeing him out with his concussion history. 

I don’t think we’d give up the kind of ol they’d want for value, I’m not even sure they’d want our guys. 
 I wouldn’t give up Wallace or the rights to manu in that situation. I don’t think Eli moves the needle for them, don’t think they’d take kola or neuf on age and health/badness. They let Lofton go last time. I don’t see rando or vanterpool creating value either.

[wbbfan]

10 hours ago, Brandon said:

So how did Zach and Strev play? Was the o line the issue again?

 

The first just under half of the game was extremely sloppy conditions. A lot of struggling to keep the ball, and guys slipping on both sides. 
 Toronto was hitting us with big plays from the first drive though and it felt like we couldn’t do the same. 

Brady was running hard and picked up a few firsts on first down. But we didn’t stick with the run. We ended up in 2nd and long all night. Which left both QBs struggling to keep drives going. 
 

The secondary was shredded early and often, though the front played its best game of the year. The secondary, was also as soft as I’ve seen it in years. No one wants to hit, no one wants to form tackle, no gang tackling.
 Seems like we finally rotated the ends more, and when we had Lawson/adams in with person, we got pressure pretty regularly. Vaughters had his best game, Wj too. But our blitz scheme worked a lot better as well. Jones had a big night behind the line and made a great hit on a wr coming way way back to get into a play down field. 
 Bridges was taken out with no injury report, or visible on field injury. Sounds like Jy finally pulled his ass for vaval. Who was still playing too deep but tackled a bit better and wasn’t getting stomped over the top. 
 The Argos size at wr loomed large over our dbs all night. Griffin is the only guy who played with a bit of grit back there. Holms never been physical but now every one else has sunk to that level and lower. Parker couldn’t keep his feet all night and continues to struggle to get over on any deep guy. The experiment with him at S should be over.
 

ol early was giving up a good bit of pressure and hits. Good gaps on one play then nothing the next. Rando was lost and whipped a few times. Neuf and kola struggled especially kola of course. Wallace was solid and it was probably vanterpools best game at T. Not good enough yet but improvement. 
 

Janarion Grant throw a pass on the first drive and it went for 40 and change. Zach didn’t surpass that till the final 3 minutes of the half. He hit one good pass for 40+. The rest of his play was junk. The start was a hot mess for every one, but after a bad luck bounce pick he spiraled and threw a bad pick again. 
 Zach didn’t come out at half until after our first drive started, and then didn’t have gear on. No word on the injury, he did take a couple hard hits, but he was bad from the get go. 
 Strevy was significantly better, I think it would’ve been a close game if he started and played the whole night. 
 Hogans game plan wasn’t nearly good enough across the board. We had a couple decent wrinkles late but it was vs prevent. We don’t go hurry up till like 2 minutes in the game remaining. If we had gone to it with 5, we could’ve made it close. 
 Strevy moved around well, threw on the run well, threw some nice passes and a couple not great locations. 
 

The wr core was brutal. Demski got banged up late and Corcoran looks decent, good hands decent routes. But aside from the one big pass, the Argos kept our WRs in front of them all night with ease. Sterns played decent but was being fed the ball a lot and could’ve done more. 
 

Both kr struggled a lot especially vaval, but no one was going any place fast. 

Sheahan had another solid night punting, hasn’t shanked in a while. He ran a fake and sidelined out trying to dive and reach but was way too late. It was a pretty bad punt fake for a guy who’s supposed to be an athlete.  

[Slimy Sculpin]

Have to admit that I uttered a few f-sharps at the TV while watching the Bombers blow up last evening. A few observations:

I checked the TO weather forecast before the game and the rain was predicted. The way the team was playing it looked like the were not prepared for the conditions. Vaval carrying the rock like he thought he was the Lincoln Locomotive. He's not and the resultant fumble is not just on him but on the ST coach for not pounding "protect the ball" into his head. The D-backs were playing too far off the receivers resulting in, well, a lot of Argo receptions. And, to me it looked like the Bomber defenders weren't wearing the right footwear for the soggy, real grass field. Too far off and a lot of slip sliding away. A lack of preparedness?

Kolankowki has got to make sure that he has a grip on the ball.

Parker, although he was slipping a lot, was still starting off in the wrong position. Too often he was moving away from the play so he wasn't much of a back up. I realize that he's a pretty good tackler but I think that S is not his position. Do we have anyone taller who might be able to step in? Given what's happening at the corners, can Parker slot in one of those spots.

Tony Jones is not the answer in the middle of the LB corps. I think that he's too slow as is Kramdi, who also has developed a case of tackle-itis. The other Jones....Jon, is stagnating on the "one-game" IR. Surely, he can be fit into the starting lineup at one of the LB spots.

The D-line played better last night. I think that there was more rotation going on. It took six games for the coaches to figure that out?

I feel badly for Case as that may be a season ending injury. However, perhaps a guy like Mitchell can now slot in. He was a solid player for Edmonton and aside from being a sure-handed receiver he's also a reasonable kick/punt returner. And, what's the deal with Logan, also on the one-game IR since the season started.

Sure the O-line wasn't at their best but, to me, it seems that Collaros is "too slow" and Streveler "too fast". Collaros can't get the ball out fast enough and Streveler is too fast to abandon the pocket. And, what's with all of his cross-the-body throws?

There's more but I'll leave it at that.

End of rant.

P.S. If the fans can see the flaws in the Bombers, I'm thinking that Miller does, too. Is it time for him the call an all staff (coaches) meeting?

 

[Brandon]

When do we officially declare Zach as cooked and done?   As I had posted in the other thread last season he had 14 TD and 15 INT's until that Edmonton game which was in September.... this year he's not improved.     Are they obligated to pay him next season?  

I can't imagine it being all the receivers faults and if we require him to only toss deep bombs that are innaccurate then what's the point of paying him a huge salary when we can have anyone else doing the same thing.   

[17to85]

18 minutes ago, Brandon said:

When do we officially declare Zach as cooked and done?

I did it last season...

[Mike]

19 minutes ago, Brandon said:

When do we officially declare Zach as cooked and done?   As I had posted in the other thread last season he had 14 TD and 15 INT's until that Edmonton game which was in September.... this year he's not improved.     Are they obligated to pay him next season? 

2023?

[Bigblue204]

I thought that may have been Griffins worst game as a Bomber as well. Could have been the field conditions though. Looked slow and hesitant to attack ball carriers.

[Booch]

4 hours ago, Tracker said:

In the Free Press article online this morning, O'Shea was quoted as saying that he was not concerned at all and that it was easy to see and fix the problem(s). Move along now, nothing to see here.

man with no clue...answer....and future really...what a moron

3 hours ago, bigg jay said:

“People aren’t going to like to hear this, but I’m very relaxed about the situation, because you see what’s happening, and the answers are easy,” O’Shea said.

“There’s a bunch of guys in that room that have seen it go down a pile of different ways, so I believe we have a bunch of guys that just understand, ‘Let’s make some corrections, let’s go to work and let’s be better,’ So that’s one of the reasons why it’s easy to just stay even keeled.”

If the answers were that easy, why weren't they made after the first Calgary game?

really?....a bunch of guys in that room ya have seen it....and yet it still happens...maybe its the guys in the room....and the coach leading them....or lack of leading....he has no clue and zero answers....gonna just be more of the same.....And if Case didnt get hurt we would have trotted out the same exact lineup this coming week....but that decision got made for him....But I expect probably a bizzare pointless roster move tho....why would we expect anyting else??

3 hours ago, Tracker said:

Disagree. For starters, Schoen may not be his old self this season or ever, for that matter, and even if/when Pokey returns, so long as a sub-par Collaros keeps getting put out there, nothing will change. Furthermore, none of this will address the defence which is more theoretical than actual. The defensive backfield is inadequate and the players who are competent cannot compensate for those who are blindingly horrible. Then there are the festering boils- Kolankowski and Thomas. Beyond all these issues, I see that the biggest liability is on the sidelines. Not only is O'Shea afflicted with rigid thinking, his choices of coordinators are highly questionable. These issues are neither new nor invisible and if we yahoos in this forum can and have seen them ad nauseum, the players who are living through this know it a lot more acutely. The players who c are have to be getting very tired and PO'd that coaching/management are blithely ignoring the problems and are doing damned near nothing about them. Why bust your ass if you know you  are going to not only lose but be embarrassed? 

Blinded by his own ego.

Zach was his (sign) now-usual self, and Streveler looked good enough to start the next game. But unless Collaros is comatose, he won't.

root problem is coaching now...and was before the run with poor coords and a questionable roster.....and again now with an aged out depleted roster....and some way past their usefulness players....I'm not anti Younger but he is saddled with crap...and thats all on Osh...Hogan...way over his head...and what to expect with zero pedigree for this and himself saddled with prob one the poorest recieving groups in yrs...and thats league wide....not just here

3 hours ago, Concept2 said:

I wonder if Miller and O’Shea would entertain a trade? Riders have a surplus of receivers (Bane and KSB returning soon). Bombers could send a O-lineman in return? Just spitballing here. 
Hope ZC gets back to good health, a little concerning seeing him out with his concussion history. 

Not up to Oshea to entertain anything...and if it was...we'd be really hooped more than we are....He obviously has been given wayyyyy too much say in who we keep....roster...and target in free agency...and he's destroyed the roster

If entertaining anything is on the table...ot's moving on from him quickly and starting a semi reboot now before its a full on purge season end....We can be light yrs better likely with who we have now save for somehow getting a legit reciever somewhere...somehow...But with Osh leading the charge....based on what he's been saying...his ideas and his penchant for his bias's...we screwed

3 hours ago, BomberBall. said:

I know what you’re saying about Zach’s 2nd pick not being his fault, it was a crazy sequence of bounces that were very unlucky, but he caused that by throwing high to an open receiver.  An easy throw that he needs to make.

I think Streveler has the tools, but I feel like someone needs to correct his mechanics…. I can’t think of many throws last night that he actually stepped into.  He’s almost always throwing flat footed or off his back foot.  He has a great arm, but he could make more throws on time if he got back to his fundamentals.

shittty throw....but should have been caught.....synopsis of what ails the offense....sub par players

Strev if handed the reigns...tailored system to him...Lions share of practice reps...Jackson more involved in system...and player use....he could be just fine...especially if given the assurance he doesnt have to look over his shoulder and be worried about getting yanked if he has a oopsie here and there....cant grow if you arent allowed to screw up and then show you have corrected it

 

[BigBlueFanatic]

1 minute ago, Bigblue204 said:

I thought that may have been Griffins worst game as a Bomber as well. Could have been the field conditions though. Looked slow and hesitant to attack ball carriers.

I don’t necessarily disagree.  On tv several plays made Nichols look really bad at first… especially on one TD where he “let” an Argo receiver run right by him for the score.  Replay showed him by himself trying to decide which of three… three!! Argo receivers to cover.  Griffin had some bad plays for sure, but the whole secondary was doomed by guys like Bridges and Parker being awful or MIA.

[Slimy Sculpin]

7 minutes ago, Booch said:

man with no clue...answer....and future really...what a moron

really?....a bunch of guys in that room ya have seen it....and yet it still happens...maybe its the guys in the room....and the coach leading them....or lack of leading....he has no clue and zero answers....gonna just be more of the same.....And if Case didnt get hurt we would have trotted out the same exact lineup this coming week....but that decision got made for him....But I expect probably a bizzare pointless roster move tho....why would we expect anyting else??

root problem is coaching now...and was before the run with poor coords and a questionable roster.....and again now with an aged out depleted roster....and some way past their usefulness players....I'm not anti Younger but he is saddled with crap...and thats all on Osh...Hogan...way over his head...and what to expect with zero pedigree for this and himself saddled with prob one the poorest recieving groups in yrs...and thats league wide....not just here

Not up to Oshea to entertain anything...and if it was...we'd be really hooped more than we are....He obviously has been given wayyyyy too much say in who we keep....roster...and target in free agency...and he's destroyed the roster

If entertaining anything is on the table...ot's moving on from him quickly and starting a semi reboot now before its a full on purge season end....We can be light yrs better likely with who we have now save for somehow getting a legit reciever somewhere...somehow...But with Osh leading the charge....based on what he's been saying...his ideas and his penchant for his bias's...we screwed

shittty throw....but should have been caught.....synopsis of what ails the offense....sub par players

Strev if handed the reigns...tailored system to him...Lions share of practice reps...Jackson more involved in system...and player use....he could be just fine...especially if given the assurance he doesnt have to look over his shoulder and be worried about getting yanked if he has a oopsie here and there....cant grow if you arent allowed to screw up and then show you have corrected it

 

Always appreciate your perspective.  However, I'm not sure Steveler, given enough rope, is the answer. He might win the odd one but while I think he's got a strong arm, with his mechanics, I don't think he can be consistent. He's, imo, not patient enough in whatever pocket may be available to him. If his first look isn't open, he tends to get happy feet and vacates. And, depending on which way he goes, there's a tendency for inaccurate across the body throws (another one almost intercepted last night). I realizer Streveler us next man up but I'm ready to see more of Wilson.

[Booch]

3 hours ago, wbbfan said:

I have no confidence that schoen will be close to 100% this year. He’s back on the 6 after the first third. If we got insanely lucky and made the gc maybe he’s close for that game with a reasonable amount of rust off. 
 Short of some thing miraculous he shouldn’t be rushed to play and when he comes back should be eased in real slow if at all this year.
 We can’t afford to ruin him.  

I don’t think we’d give up the kind of ol they’d want for value, I’m not even sure they’d want our guys. 
 I wouldn’t give up Wallace or the rights to manu in that situation. I don’t think Eli moves the needle for them, don’t think they’d take kola or neuf on age and health/badness. They let Lofton go last time. I don’t see rando or vanterpool creating value either.

said right from get go...Schoen expected to be Schoen coming off that less than a yr from surgery was dumbest thing....takes a good half yr at minimum once back playing to get your game back....and good chance we effed him with a set back and dont see him again this yr....

 

22 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

I thought that may have been Griffins worst game as a Bomber as well. Could have been the field conditions though. Looked slow and hesitant to attack ball carriers.

I think it's scheme and guys over compensating for others....Bonds...Nichols and Griffin were top notch all last yr...and 2 games in this yr...they didnt forget how to play....and sometimes thinking player A is being burned isnt true when he has noticed something and is trying to make up for player B and C

Also having Kramdi and T.Jones lost in space with coverage and depth of drops more often than not isnt helping...and Parker isnt seasoned enough to QB things....We wasye Ayers as a DA...plays teams and a couple of pointless reps on defence...do we not trust him...or is it Osh and his inability to assess talent...and get over his bias's....We may as well swap him for J.Jones and he would definitely make our defense better...and plays teams too....T.Jones had some plays yesterday...but also was a issue on defence too...he's situational guy only really....and would be the better DA....BUT his spot was cemented prior to camp

We also rotate and interchange wayyyy too much on the backend and guys just aren't grasping it...or getting in a flow of the game...Perfect your 4 best base sets/looks....and then start some installs.....with that you can cover basically any look an offense is showing you anyway.....and what we trying to do isnt fooling anyone now...other than ourselves

Also I am all for change and youth...and best playing...But really I didnt understand not bringing back BA...wouldnt have broke the bank...and he played well last year and finally looked like his old self....and the secondry showed it...I'd bring him back as he here anyway and get him back at safety.....Drop Bridges off active...Bring on Allen and have Griffin play SAM...One of Parker or Allen at that corner and roll with that...season is still salvageable and allows us time to intigrate the new blood

Also get Bailey on for one of Ball...Korn...Thomas...we seen how 3 ends who were allowed to actually flow to the ball played...Imagine 4 with a solid use of Lawson and Adams soley inside...Did Korn even see a snap??...I saw Ball on ST a few plays but really...what a dumb move

Hopefully Kelly is ready next week.....and pushes off one of the many pointless slugs...

 

3 minutes ago, Slimy Sculpin said:

Always appreciate your perspective.  However, I'm not sure Steveler, given enough rope, is the answer. He might win the odd one but while I think he's got a strong arm, with his mechanics, I don't think he can be consistent. He's, imo, not patient enough in whatever pocket may be available to him. If his first look isn't open, he tends to get happy feet and vacates. And, depending on which way he goes, there's a tendency for inaccurate across the body throws (another one almost intercepted last night). I realizer Streveler us next man up but I'm ready to see more of Wilson.

I think currently he is more an answer than ZC....and what was with him being pulled?...Hurt?...performance?....Other??....my guy is he shouldn't have even been dressed let alone playing....another HC brainwave move of ineptness.....a lot of Strev's perceived weakness as well would be corrected with playtime and practice reps....he didnt show that his first yr here...or in NFL....Just since we nearly ruined him last yr....and dont allow him any kind of chance to really develop much here....and Hogan as the OC isnt helping

Edited 2 hours ago by Booch

[Tracker]

7 minutes ago, Slimy Sculpin said:

Always appreciate your perspective.  However, I'm not sure Steveler, given enough rope, is the answer. He might win the odd one but while I think he's got a strong arm, with his mechanics, I don't think he can be consistent. He's, imo, not patient enough in whatever pocket may be available to him. If his first look isn't open, he tends to get happy feet and vacates. And, depending on which way he goes, there's a tendency for inaccurate across the body throws (another one almost intercepted last night). I realizer Streveler us next man up but I'm ready to see more of Wilson.

At the risk of repeating myself, Streveler deserves a chance to play himself into the starting role or off the team, and he has not been given that opportunity.

[Slimy Sculpin]

Who would have thought that we'd be yearning for Buck to be back as OC?😊

Just now, Tracker said:

At the risk of repeating myself, Streveler deserves a chance to play himself into the starting role or off the team, and he has not been given that opportunity.

I won't argue with that.

[Noeller]

No way for any of us to know if the play calls are the issue because we don't know what the calls were. Having said that, I think I'd be okay with holding ZC out this week no matter what and giving Strev a full week of starter reps and a game plan specifically designed for him. 

[3rdand1.5]

D-line rotation looked good

Brady ran hard, caught well and blocked well

Our special coverage looked good

Wilson appeared top play good

Jones made some big tackles

Corcarin looked good

That's all that comes to mind for good

Castillo is in my mind our MVP, MOP so far....

Sheehans punting looked good again

 

Penalties were bad

Receivers didn't make any great catches, overall looked bad

O-line was bad overall- we seem to have a poor scheme/ability for pass blocking

The weather was bad

 

Zach was ugly, really ugly this game...I think this is his 3rd maybe 4th consecutive multi interception game in a row...

The entire d backfield was beyond ugly it appeared we swapped Bridges for Vaval....Vaval looked perhaps decent...IMO the Parker experiment at safety should conclude

Communication was very ugly...

Chemistry was ugly

Playcalling was ugly...both offence and defence, especially the lack of involving a run game AGAIN...and on defence it is now pretty evident that whatever Younger is calling is too confusing for the guys we have playing

Turnovers...correct me if I am wrong but I think we have like something like 17 or 18 turnovers the last three games... and of all types returns, ints, fumbles, turn over of downs

Case's injury was ugly, If I was a betting man he is done for the season...he may not be lighting it up but let's show respect that he hurt himself trying to help our team...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TBURGESS]

40 minutes ago, Tracker said:

At the risk of repeating myself, Streveler deserves a chance to play himself into the starting role or off the team, and he has not been given that opportunity.

He's been given those opportunities in the last two weeks and hasn't done much positive.

He's not the Streveler of a few years back. That guy could outrun the D line and make plays with his legs over and over. Now he struggles to run at all. That takes his best attribute away, making him just another guy. 

[17to85]

1 hour ago, Slimy Sculpin said:

He's, imo, not patient enough in whatever pocket may be available to him.

The sad reality is neither qb is getting any pocket to work with.

Streveler runs, collaros gets sacked. 

[Bomberguy]

What kind of talent could be added to the roster without Zach and Dalton’s contracts? Serious question.

[Brandon]

9 minutes ago, Bomberguy said:

What kind of talent could be added to the roster without Zach and Dalton’s contracts? Serious question.

I don't know of any impact player in the league who is wanting off their current team.   Maybe Chad Kelly out of Toronto so they can rid them of any PR issues....    So Zach for Kelly which I'm sure so many people on here would go crazy for....

[Booch]

I dunno...with more work...coaching from Jackson...and getting reps with 1's  in practice and if he gets next couple starts I can see Strev being more than serviceable...you have to remember guys in this time fully recover from reconstruction surgery...Strev is only what...10 months removed from surgery? He's gonna regain his legs...hes not cooked by any means in that regard

He has thrown 5 tds to ZC 7...and that's in just over half the attempts...and other than 1st start minimal prep and crappy situations

So I'm apt not to make final judgements until he gets a bunch of consecutive starts...will that happen...who knows yet...should it...I think so as looking at the QB market moving forward he may be our best option for late this yr and into 2026 barring any trade where we get a gift from someone...so the prudent thing would be to start implementing stuff with him in mind...and getting him work in every possible situstion and chance we get.

Elephant in room tho is Osh and we know how he operates and doesn't allow for anyone to push for a prominent role let alone the defacto starter...and this should be occurring in multiple positions too...not just QB

There is a definite issue and disconnect in room and amoung coaching...management....and add in a stubborn HC who won't make a change let alone tweeks unless ultimately forced to, well then we get what we are seeing. 

Staying the course now...and continued looking backwards and assuming things will work out is just setting up for failure...and serious issues next yr...that or a total house cleaning....this isnt 2021-2022 anymore...we don't have the top end talent...in their prime...nor the depth...or any heir apparent in place..or even given anyone a actual look and reps to even see if we do...so save for an epic shift on how we do things...who we play it's looking like we are in tough and 3rd place may be our ceiling...and that may be a stretch...and don't even wanna think about next yr based on how we went about our offseason in a grey cup yr at home if we don't change some roles at the top

13 minutes ago, Bomberguy said:

What kind of talent could be added to the roster without Zach and Dalton’s contracts? Serious question.

Toss in whatever Jake is making...Kolos 150k...Kramdis ridiculous 135k...Mitchell and his so far wasted money...

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 hour ago, Tracker said:

At the risk of repeating myself, Streveler deserves a chance to play himself into the starting role or off the team, and he has not been given that opportunity.

I love Streveler for what he is, and what he's done in our uniform.

But this is laughable.  This team was his in 2019 for the taking.  I know he was young, but the only reason Collaros is here at all is because Streveler was 3-5 with a team that went 13-2 and won the Grey Cup in games with Nichols/Collaros.

If anyone viewed Streveler as a starting quality QB, he'd be in Edmonton, or Hamilton last year, or Toronto, or Calgary.  He's just not that level of player.  He's a good backup with some unique qualities if he's healthy.  Which he's nowhere near.  Watch the guy throw a ball.  He's arm throwing, he's getting nothing from his core, hips and down.  He likely should not have returned until after Labour Day.