Blue Bombers - 2025 Regular Season - Discussion Thread

[ShyGuy]

2 hours ago, GCn20 said:

Partially torn is a torn ACL and is how it is commonly reported as simply a torn ACL.

[citation needed]

 

We are talking about an Athletic Therapist... not an orthopedic surgeon or anything too right? His job is to do non-invasive tests and then refer him to specialists. It's not going to be malpractice if he goes 'his knee is ******' and the specialist agrees, and the team allows him to trot himself out there in a huge ass knee brace to approximate the support a functioning ACL would give him. It might rise to the level of malpractice he is failed to (or incorrectly gave) give the Lachman test, and then sent him back out there with a couple strips of KT Tape or something... but obviously there was a plan, go on the 6 game, attempt to rehab, go out there in a brace and give it your best shot.

Some choice quotes about this

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/2025/09/05/schoens-2025-campaign-ends

Quote

“He could’ve had surgery however many weeks ago, but he put the team first,” said quarterback Zach Collaros.

“I don’t know if there’s an example of a receiver trying to play through an injury like that. And then, as well as he played last game, I think he still won every rep that he took. I just love the guy, he’s so tough, and cares so much about his teammates, and specifically cares about the people in this building — that’s why he lays his body out on the line. I can’t say enough good things about Dalton.”

https://www.sportsnet.ca/cfl/article/blue-bombers-wr-dalton-schoen-out-for-season-with-torn-acl/

 

Quote

Winnipeg Blue Bombers head coach Mike O’Shea told reporters on Friday that the talented receiver is out for the season.

He revealed Schoen tore the ACL in the July 3 road game against the Calgary Stampeders. Rather than have surgery like he did when he tore the same ACL in his left knee last year, Schoen tried to rehab it while on the six-game injured list.

 

Quote

Bombers quarterback Zach Collaros said it’s “awesome” to have Wilson back, but he really feels for Schoen.

“Just selfless,” he said of Schoen. “What happened to his knee in Week 4 and then trying to rehab it as much as he possibly could to be back out there for the team … I don’t think should be discounted.”

But I think this argument is starting to miss the forest for the trees... what is absolutely fact is that going into a crucial home-and-home series against your biggest rival, immediately after a game where your backup QB (who also was less than 1 year removed from ACL surgery) had to take significant snaps at receiver, they decided the best thing for the WR corps was trotting out someone they KNEW only had one good knee... it was mostly just dumb luck that he made it all the way to the end of the game or else we would have been seeing more of Streveler WR4 again.

3 minutes ago, Booch said:

would they not have said partially torn then? If it was partial...

And he would have consulted with the physician first....not the AT....

You can sure....rehab a partially torn one minimally....and with success as a non-athlete....but without surgery the risk to fully tearing  a given playing sports....joe schmoe on the street can live with it....rest...therapy and drugs can help....but dont fix

also.....thing to consider...the recovery time for a partial tear is similar to that of a complete tear for both surgical and non surgical options....so there is that too, and no way shape or form did he accumulate 10 to 12 months of rehab on the 6 game (generally the timeframe to get back on field....not necessarily back to where you were) ....and why I say either way....there was no way any "rehab" was beneficial enough to allow him to play and was just postponing the inevitable....surgery and 12 months of rehab...and was stupid....not well thought out and pointless...as we saw

where is the literature regarding our therapist as most respected in Canada....curious....not saying he's not good...as he is and I have worked with him so know all about him...but I have never heard that said anywhere but here

https://www.bluebombers.com/alain-couture/

 

Quote

Widely considered one of the best in his field by players, coaches, therapists and doctors across the Canadian Football League,

It would be funny if a team had a page for their Head Athletic Therapist and didn't goose him up a bit

"Hey this is our Athletic Therapist. He's pretty mid, but he tries his best and we love him anyways"

[GCn20]

24 minutes ago, ShyGuy said:

[citation needed]

 

We are talking about an Athletic Therapist... not an orthopedic surgeon or anything too right? His job is to do non-invasive tests and then refer him to specialists. It's not going to be malpractice if he goes 'his knee is ******' and the specialist agrees, and the team allows him to trot himself out there in a huge ass knee brace to approximate the support a functioning ACL would give him. It might rise to the level of malpractice he is failed to (or incorrectly gave) give the Lachman test, and then sent him back out there with a couple strips of KT Tape or something... but obviously there was a plan, go on the 6 game, attempt to rehab, go out there in a brace and give it your best shot.

Some choice quotes about this

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/2025/09/05/schoens-2025-campaign-ends

https://www.sportsnet.ca/cfl/article/blue-bombers-wr-dalton-schoen-out-for-season-with-torn-acl/

 

 

But I think this argument is starting to miss the forest for the trees... what is absolutely fact is that going into a crucial home-and-home series against your biggest rival, immediately after a game where your backup QB (who also was less than 1 year removed from ACL surgery) had to take significant snaps at receiver, they decided the best thing for the WR corps was trotting out someone they KNEW only had one good knee... it was mostly just dumb luck that he made it all the way to the end of the game or else we would have been seeing more of Streveler WR4 again.

https://www.bluebombers.com/alain-couture/

 

It would be funny if a team had a page for their Head Athletic Therapist and didn't goose him up a bit

"Hey this is our Athletic Therapist. He's pretty mid, but he tries his best and we love him anyways"

I don't disagree that playing him was risky. However, he had a pretty decent stat line in that game and made some real clutch plays. Until the OT throw he was playing very well. Unfortunate he got hurt because it was one of his best games of the season and certainly miles better than anything Dillon Mitchell has done all year. He certainly didn't hamper, and only enhanced our ability to compete that game.  As a general rule I don't like rolling out guys that are injured, but we certainly don't know how he looked in practice, and that would have been a huge factor in the decision. Hindsight is 20/20. If he wasn't good enough to go I have every faith that Couture would have shut him down. If he didn't look ready to go I don't think MOS would have played him and he certainly looked good that entire game. It is unfortunate he reinjured himself but that was the direction the player chose to take, and he looked ready to perform. He wasn't gimpy by any stretch of the imagination. 

Edited yesterday at 07:04 PM by GCn20

[Booch]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

I don't disagree that playing him was risky. However, he had a pretty decent stat line in that game and made some real clutch plays. Until the OT throw he was playing very well. Unfortunate he got hurt because it was one of his best games of the season and certainly miles better than anything Dillon Mitchell has done all year. He certainly didn't hamper, and only enhanced our ability to compete that game.  As a general rule I don't like rolling out guys that are injured, but we certainly don't know how he looked in practice, and that would have been a huge factor in the decision. Hindsight is 20/20. If he wasn't good enough to go I have every faith that Couture would have shut him down. If he didn't look ready to go I don't think MOS would have played him and he certainly looked good that entire game. It is unfortunate he reinjured himself but that was the direction the player chose to take, and he looked ready to perform. He wasn't gimpy by any stretch of the imagination. 

Yeah I think we all agree to some extent...with varying points of view

Fact of matter regardless of partial...full...or he grew a third one that was dangling in the way...he was gonna go down for good...or make it worse...and just delayed his comeback date a season essentially ..and well he went down for good the first game they tried it...applaud him for wanting to but the powers that be should have thanked him but said no beueno 

And he was kinda gimpy...no explosion...couldn't separate...and had alligator arms...also on the pick that went back to the house...he couldn't cut and come back effectively...and yhe db jumped it...he was playing in a limited capacity 

OSH also has a history of playing guys Cleary not good to go...so id give him zero leeway there

Edited yesterday at 08:17 PM by Booch

[GCn20]

16 hours ago, Booch said:

Yeah I think we all agree to some extent...with varying points of view

Fact of matter regardless of partial...full...or he grew a third one that was dangling in the way...he was gonna go down for good...or make it worse...and just delayed his comeback date a season essentially ..and well he went down for good the first game they tried it...applaud him for wanting to but the powers that be should have thanked him but said no beueno 

And he was kinda gimpy...no explosion...couldn't separate...and had alligator arms...also on the pick that went back to the house...he couldn't cut and come back effectively...and yhe db jumped it...he was playing in a limited capacity 

OSH also has a history of playing guys Cleary not good to go...so id give him zero leeway there

Osh does have a history of doing that. However, in this case I think it was the right decision to play him and it turned out badly. How it goes sometimes in pro sports. A player like Schoen is a difference maker when he is in the lineup. If the AT says he's good, player says he's good, practice says he's good, then you play him and that's what we did. He put in a full practice the week before he played and they tested him on all routes to see. He must have looked good. His stat line in the game looked good as well and he made some nice plays prior to OT.

Edited 8 hours ago by GCn20

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

Osh does have a history of doing that. However, in this case I think it was the right decision to play him and it turned out badly. How it goes sometimes in pro sports. A player like Schoen is a difference maker when he is in the lineup. If the AT says he's good, player says he's good, practice says he's good, then you play him and that's what we did. He put in a full practice the week before he played and they tested him on all routes to see. He must have looked good. His stat line in the game looked good as well and he made some nice plays prior to OT.

He's only a differemnce maker if he's healthy. He wasn't, Osh knew his knee was badly injured & still played him, Now, he may never recover to be close to what he was on the field. It was a stupid decision in a long line of stupid Osh personnel decisions. 

Edited 7 hours ago by SpeedFlex27

[Goalie]

19 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

He's only a differemnce maker if he's healthy. He wasn't, Osh knew his knee was badly injured & still played him, Now, he may never recover to be close to what he was on the field. It was a stupid decision in a long line of stupid Osh personnel decisions. 

I guess Schoen takes no responsibility what so ever cuz he’s a child right. Honestly. It’s pro sports. 

[SpeedFlex27]

On 2025-09-14 at 10:56 PM, GCn20 said:

You had a partially torn ACL and they replaced your knee? You should have gotten a 2nd opinion

What a nice thing to say. It was completely torn as was the ACL. PCL & MCL along with torn cartillage. All told, I had 3 surgeries on that knee & while each surgery may have alleviated the symptoms, it always returned to what it was before. Pain, chronic selling & not being able to function so I had to use a cane to walk at 55. Finally, surgically repairing the knee was no longer an option.

When  i went down a flight of stairs towards the end before the knee was replaced, I had to hold the handrail & walk down backward.  I could no longer walk the dog or play golf. I suffered with that knee for many years. I even had to give up fishing as I was unable to get in & out of boat & risked losing my balance & falling. believe you're so cold blooded you'd say that to me but then why should I be surprised.

FYI,  three surgeons all confirmed to replace the knee. The first surgeon waned me to wait until I got into my 60's as i was 55 when I was first referred to a spcialist. Eventually, he did put me on his waiting list at the Alberta Hip & Knee Clinic bit he suddenly died while I was on the  waiting list.

Another surgeon took over my late surgeon's medical cases & said he was aghast at what he saw with a knee joint full of arthritis. He said the knee xray was one of the worst he ever saw in 25 years as a surgeon & he was anxious to help me. He asked me how I functioned  "without a viable knee?" I just said that I I do.  He was the one I decided to go with for the surgery as I trusted him. A very nice man who put me at ease right away. He was actually the third & last surgeon I saw.

In between, the second surgeon who I went to see confirmed the same diagnosos but I never liked him, He was arrogant & stand offish. He was at another orthpedic clinic. He made me feel like he was doing me a favour Just granting me an appointment. He had very little bedside manner which I didn't appreciate.

Any way, the same doctor who did my left from Alberta Hip & Knee also did my right 3 years apart. Pain now gone. Still a challenge to get around but my quality of life is so much better. Until you live with pain everyday you have no idea what it's like... There, am I educated enough for you? Or do I have to have my legs amputated to satisfy whatever naive attitudes you have about long term injuries & chronic pain? Again, many thanks for your sympathy & empathy. 

33 minutes ago, Goalie said:

I guess Schoen takes no responsibility what so ever cuz he’s a child right. Honestly. It’s pro sports. 

Sure, Schoen has to take responsiblity. It's their life. They're wired differently than you & I & sometimes don't make great decisions. That's when the adult in the room has to say ENOUGH! & shut them down  Osh ddn't do that. You don't think the coach panicked when he realized he had no viable CFL receivers besides Demski & what appears to be a marginal pro in Wheatfall against the Stamps? All that off season planning that went awry. It was a panic move. 

Edited 7 hours ago by SpeedFlex27

[bryan35]

11 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

What a nice thing to say. It was completely torn as was the ACL. PCL & MCL along with torn cartillage. All told, I had 3 surgeries on that knee & while each surgery may have alleviated the symptoms, it always returned to what it was before. Pain, chronic selling & not being able to function so I had to use a cane to walk at 55. Finally, surgically repairing the knee was no longer an option.

When  i went down a flight of stairs towards the end before the knee was replaced, I had to hold the handrail & walk down backward.  I could no longer walk the dog or play golf. I suffered with that knee for many years. I can't believe you're so cold blooded you'd say that to me but then why should I be surprised. FYI,  three surgeons all confirmed to replace the knee. The first surgeon waned me to wait until I got into my 60's as i was 55 when I was referred to a spcialist. Eventually, he did put me on his waiting list at the Alberta Hip & Knee Clinic bit he suddenly died while I was on the  waiting list.

Another surgeon took over his medical cases & said he was aghast at what he saw with a knee joint full of arthritis. He said the knee xray was one of the worst he ever saw in 25 years as a surgeon & he was anxious to help me. He asked me how I functioned  "without a viable knee?" I just said that I I do.  He was the one I decided to go with for the surgery as I rusted him. He was actually the third surgeon I saw.

The second surgeon who went to see confirmed the same diagnosos but I never liked him, He was arrogant & stand offish. He made me feel like he was doing me a favour Just granting me an appointment. He  had very little bedside manner. Any way, the same doctor who did my left from Alberta Hip & Knee also did my right. Pain now gone. Still a challenge to get around but my quality of life is so much better. Until you live with pain everyday you have no idea what it's like... Again, many thanks for your sympathy & empathy. 

Sure, Schoen has to take responsiblity but that's when a coach has to say ENOUGH! & shut him down  Osh ddn't do that. You don't think the coach panicked when he realized he had no viable CFL receivers besides Demski & what appears to be a marginal pro in Wheatfall? All that off season planning that went awry. It was a panic move. 

Is not having viable options on Osh or Walters? I would say more on Walters and the scouting staff.

[SpeedFlex27]

6 minutes ago, bryan35 said:

Is not having viable options on Osh or Walters? I would say more on Walters and the scouting staff.

Walters but Osh may be saying to him, "No we're good. We have schoen coming back & he's cheaper". I'd blame them both. Just a gross misjudgement of talent. Zach Schnitzer said that he thinks the loss of Ted Goveia to Hamilton this past off season really messed up the front office. He could be right. RIP, Ted.

[Pete]

Curious that this offseason the same thought process went though two teams at the opposite ends of the western conference

The elks with Gino Lewis  (Ed Hervey with his there are no superstars in cfl, no reciever is worth that), and us with the decision to go cheaper and utilize that cap space to strengthen elsewhere. In our case it blew up in a lot of ways, turns out Lawler is proving hes worth it and the free agent moves we did of a bunch of midlevel players had 0 impact.

Had we utilized that cap space for an impact player on d, or even to retain  Dobson or Ford - but hindsight is 50/50 as is the fact that OShea/Walters failed badly and its showing in results

[SpeedFlex27]

On 2025-09-14 at 10:30 AM, Dreamcatcher said:

The only replacement required on the o-line is a solid center. We could do that hopefully in the off season. On the D-Line, I am not as sure. I was thinking replace Jake with a solid Canadian if one comes available, but we have solid guys for the D-Line in house that are not played. (At least in my opinion as a couch coach)* I am afraid, however, there will be very little changes in the off season if O'Shea remains Head Coach. No offense to him or those that love him, but when guys are done or not as good as the opposition, its time to make changes...most Championship teams do...I am perplexed at our lack of depth at some positions and our HC seems to be turning a blind eye to this team, despite hosting the Grey Cup this year...something they NEW well before pre-season. Its hard for me to say, but I think that it should be the end of the Canadian Mafia this season. All 3 should be let go. Not just Walters and Osh....but Miller as well. He's too cheap. He likely instructed Walters to keep salaries down....despite this being a Grey Cup Year....top that off with Osh stubbornly playing guys who are past expiry dates or that show him a lunch pail attitude in practices, as opposed to some with outstanding talent that don't always go as hard in practice but save it for game day. I am not suggesting that if you dont work hard in practice that you should be allowed to play, but its a fact alot of solid vets dont always go hard anymore in practice. This team also needs depth at all positions that can step in without the team missing a beat. In the days gone by, we had Clements and Hufnagel...2 actual QB'S...now we have Collaros, who seems to be on his last legs, and Streveler that isnt very effective this year, and a reluctance to try our back up QB'S or trade for a guy that is young, has shown talent in this league, and may be available for as little as a draft pick. Most on here are not your average fans, so I dont think that when we point out huge flaws that we are wrong. This team started 3-0 with a healthy defense...Parker at Safety, Bond was in the secondary...but we are 3-7 since, and its apparent that if you use injuries as an excuse, then we are lacking solid depth. I see some of our rookies as promising, and of course they are learning the CFL game, but I sure hope they dont go status quo next year as well. Our O-Line, D-Line, Secondary, Linebackers, Depth...all need to be addressed. 

Other teams are bringing in cuts to push their players already there. Most won't sign for this year but teams have a chance to evaluate & sign them to training camp contracts next year. Except us, so far.

Why can't Osh create an atmosphere of competition at practice where only the best have a chance of playing? Push the guys already here even harder. Make the vets worry about their jobs so they practice & play eveen harder. There's a feeling of laissez faire with this team. Do you think Cal Murphy or Ray Jauch would stand pat with this team?

[Booch]

27 minutes ago, bryan35 said:

Is not having viable options on Osh or Walters? I would say more on Walters and the scouting staff.

HC relays to scouting team what he wants....and what he likes...they go and "try" to find that

Then it's up to HC to assess and build the best lineup with what he was given...and key word....asked for.

HC also keeps and cuts the players....not the G.M and he seems to like to keep less then the best guys based on his metrics in what he thinks is the best. 

He in my opinion values some things way more than he should in some cases and it's not a natter of talent that wins the decision in his mind...it's been quite apparent really

He also doesnt really give the backups any real work during the season to get acclimated to the pro game...develop...and or show they just may not have it...and move on and bring new blood in during the season....and then when season gets to the dawg days...he just walks out injured guy after injured guy because our back-ups...or guys we carried on the PR (guys who are there just for that...injury replacement/underperforming guys/development) have zero experience...they have zero belief in them....even tho he says they all #1's and are in building because if they have to step in give us a chance to win......and well...here we are...3 cup losses in a row due to poor roster and poor coaching....under .500....and have arguably the worst depth in the league

Fact of matter the G.M hasnt been G.M'ing like he should have been....why...who knows...is Osh given too much say?...who knows...may appear as so...Buddy buddy relationship too isn't ideal....Maybe he doesn't have it in him to get on his H.C.....Or maybe he knows that he not coming back next yr and really doesn't give a hoot....so no urgency?....who knows....But changes need to be made regardless

15 minutes ago, Pete said:

Curious that this offseason the same thought process went though two teams at the opposite ends of the western conference

The elks with Gino Lewis  (Ed Hervey with his there are no superstars in cfl, no reciever is worth that), and us with the decision to go cheaper and utilize that cap space to strengthen elsewhere. In our case it blew up in a lot of ways, turns out Lawler is proving hes worth it and the free agent moves we did of a bunch of midlevel players had 0 impact.

Had we utilized that cap space for an impact player on d, or even to retain  Dobson or Ford - but hindsight is 50/50 as is the fact that OShea/Walters failed badly and its showing in results

where did we utilize any cap space to strengthen an area?...we spent nothing really on anything new, and where we did grab a possible differene maker...he cant get on the roster as he behind a couple of Osh's Boi's

[bigg jay]

4 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Other teams are bringing in cuts to push their players already there. Most won't sign for this year but teams have a chance to evaluate & sign them to training camp contracts next year. Except us, so far.

Why can't Osh create an atmosphere of competition at practice where only the best have a chance of playing? Push the guys already here even harder. Make the vets worry about their jobs so they practice & play eveen harder. There's a feeling of laissez faire with this team. Do you think Cal Murphy or Ray Jauch would stand pat with this team?

It's pretty noticeable how inactive we are compared to other teams in this aspect, if you look at the CFL transaction page or the social media account that tracks neg list changes.  The Bombers show up there way less than other teams so it gives the impression we are satisfied with who they have (or who they want to have, in the case of the neg list players).

[Booch]

2 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

It's pretty noticeable how inactive we are compared to other teams in this aspect, if you look at the CFL transaction page or the social media account that tracks neg list changes.  The Bombers show up there way less than other teams so it gives the impression we are satisfied with who they have (or who they want to have, in the case of the neg list players).

we good....thats why...well in the minds that are in control of this

[SpeedFlex27]

3 minutes ago, Booch said:

we good....thats why...well in the minds that are in control of this

The minds should be saying, "We need to be better" & go with that.

[17to85]

Osh writes his depth chart in pen before camp even opens. The lack of competition is at a point where it's hurting the team badly now that the superstars are aging fast.

[Booch]

10 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Osh writes his depth chart in pen before camp even opens. The lack of competition is at a point where it's hurting the team badly now that the superstars are aging fast.

with the off-season signings....and the lack there of too

Nobody can admit that Thomas...Kolo...Wilson...T.Jones...were not cemented in as the day 1 starter....regardless what occurred in camp

anyone saying otherwise and that if pushed by a newcomer...or rookie that Osh would have made the swap is just full of crap....we all knew...many of us said it....christ a couple were day 1 starters with barely any work in camp

[17to85]

22 minutes ago, Booch said:

with the off-season signings....and the lack there of too

Nobody can admit that Thomas...Kolo...Wilson...T.Jones...were not cemented in as the day 1 starter....regardless what occurred in camp

anyone saying otherwise and that if pushed by a newcomer...or rookie that Osh would have made the swap is just full of crap....we all knew...many of us said it....christ a couple were day 1 starters with barely any work in camp

The only way things change after camp is if someone gets hurt. 

The stark difference in the preseason game between the #1s and #2s should have been eye opening.

[GCn20]

2 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

He's only a differemnce maker if he's healthy. He wasn't, Osh knew his knee was badly injured & still played him, Now, he may never recover to be close to what he was on the field. It was a stupid decision in a long line of stupid Osh personnel decisions. 

He was our 2nd best receiver in that game. Osh works off the advice of his medical team. If he wasn't good to go our athletic therapist would have shut him down. It sucks he got reinjured but it is complete nonsense to put that on anyone. The HC works off of what the medical team is telling him, and what the player is telling him. I'm done with this argument because you guys are just like puritans looking for a witch to burn on this. There is lots of stuff to complain about with MOS and the rest of the coaching staff, but this entire forum is getting far out there with the scope and reach of the complaints. It's a brutal season this year for sure, but we are starting to really reach now.

[HardCoreBlue]

2 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

He was our 2nd best receiver in that game. Osh works off the advice of his medical team. If he wasn't good to go our athletic therapist would have shut him down. It sucks he got reinjured but it is complete nonsense to put that on anyone. The HC works off of what the medical team is telling him, and what the player is telling him. I'm done with this argument because you guys are just like puritans looking for a witch to burn on this. There is lots of stuff to complain about with MOS and the rest of the coaching staff, but this entire forum is getting far out there with the scope and reach of the complaints. It's a brutal season this year for sure, but we are starting to really reach now.

I find when someone posts statements like this and similar ones on the worldwide web such an odd thing to postulate. 

[GCn20]

24 minutes ago, Booch said:

with the off-season signings....and the lack there of too

Nobody can admit that Thomas...Kolo...Wilson...T.Jones...were not cemented in as the day 1 starter....regardless what occurred in camp

anyone saying otherwise and that if pushed by a newcomer...or rookie that Osh would have made the swap is just full of crap....we all knew...many of us said it....christ a couple were day 1 starters with barely any work in camp

Walters did a terrible job this offseason and our depth is crap. You are out to lunch if you think anyone currently on our roster in a backup role or camp cut was a difference maker. It was a garbage year for recruitment and offseason signings and yea when that happens guys get pencilled in fast. Your shining examples above don't have anything notable behind them. Wilson is better than Woodby or Ayers, Tony Jones is better than J.Jones, Kolo sucks and so does Eli, Grousing about what we are starting without acknowledging there is crap behind them is a little misleading and it is absolute nonsense to think that any coach, MOS included, said we good don't sign any good players for camp competition. Just a historically bad take there. Every coach ever wants every position hotly contested in camp. Had we cut a bunch of talent you might have a point but we didn't.

[Pete]

56 minutes ago, Booch said:

HC relays to scouting team what he wants....and what he likes...they go and "try" to find that

Then it's up to HC to assess and build the best lineup with what he was given...and key word....asked for.

HC also keeps and cuts the players....not the G.M and he seems to like to keep less then the best guys based on his metrics in what he thinks is the best. 

He in my opinion values some things way more than he should in some cases and it's not a natter of talent that wins the decision in his mind...it's been quite apparent really

He also doesnt really give the backups any real work during the season to get acclimated to the pro game...develop...and or show they just may not have it...and move on and bring new blood in during the season....and then when season gets to the dawg days...he just walks out injured guy after injured guy because our back-ups...or guys we carried on the PR (guys who are there just for that...injury replacement/underperforming guys/development) have zero experience...they have zero belief in them....even tho he says they all #1's and are in building because if they have to step in give us a chance to win......and well...here we are...3 cup losses in a row due to poor roster and poor coaching....under .500....and have arguably the worst depth in the league

Fact of matter the G.M hasnt been G.M'ing like he should have been....why...who knows...is Osh given too much say?...who knows...may appear as so...Buddy buddy relationship too isn't ideal....Maybe he doesn't have it in him to get on his H.C.....Or maybe he knows that he not coming back next yr and really doesn't give a hoot....so no urgency?....who knows....But changes need to be made regardless

where did we utilize any cap space to strengthen an area?...we spent nothing really on anything new, and where we did grab a possible differene maker...he cant get on the roster as he behind a couple of Osh's Boi's

We tried to make up talent difference in receivers signing Mtchell (130k), Sterns and white 105k, and adding  Logan. On defense we added Vaughtner to strength the dline and Jones for Lbs, none of which worked out because once again we went for the perceived bargains. Which was my point we didnt really strengthen anything

[GCn20]

1 minute ago, HardCoreBlue said:

I find when someone posts statements like this and similar ones on the worldwide web such an odd thing to postulate. 

Fair enough. I just think that bringing back your marquee receiver when medically cleared is kind of a really odd thing to criticize.

Just now, Pete said:

We tried to make up talent difference in receivers signing Mtchell (130k), Sterns and white 105k, and adding  Logan. On defense we added Vaughtner to strength the dline and Jones for Lbs, none of which worked out because once again we went for the perceived bargains. Which was my point we didnt really strengthen anything

Walters and our AGMs/scouts did a terrible job of evaluating FA talent for sure.

[HardCoreBlue]

1 minute ago, GCn20 said:

Walters did a terrible job this offseason and our depth is crap. You are out to lunch if you think anyone currently on our roster in a backup role or camp cut was a difference maker. It was a garbage year for recruitment and offseason signings and yea when that happens guys get pencilled in fast. Your shining examples above don't have anything notable behind them. Wilson is better than Woodby or Ayers, Tony Jones is better than J.Jones, Kolo sucks and so does Eli, Grousing about what we are starting without acknowledging there is crap behind them is a little misleading and it is absolute nonsense to think that any coach, MOS included, said we good don't sign any good players for camp competition. Just a historically bad take there. Every coach ever wants every position hotly contested in camp. Had we cut a bunch of talent you might have a point but we didn't.

In summary, all our depth sucks worse than all our starters so starters get a free ride for underperforming cuz of Walters.

[GCn20]

7 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

In summary, all our depth sucks worse than all our starters so starters get a free ride for underperforming cuz of Walters.

Well, yes and no. All our starters are getting a free ride because they aren't getting their ass kicked by coaches, Hoiwever, the coaches are in a bad place because our depth sucks and the best motivator is playing time and we have garbage sitting behind almost every position on the field and all the players know it and are not fearing losing their jobs. Anyone who has coached this game knows that players without competition are hard to keep on track. If this wasn't a GC hosting year about the best thing that could happen is we just put the guys out there that will go the extra mile despite talent level, but that would likely result in worse losses than what we have. Backups are backups for a reason and there isn't enough talent behind some of our gross underperformers for heart and will to make up the difference. If we had the quality of depth that we should have guys could have/should have been sat down and made to earn their starting positions back by refocusing and winning it back. RIght now we have many starters that are in by default.

Edited 5 hours ago by GCn20