Blue Bombers - 2025 Regular Season - Discussion Thread

[SpeedFlex27]

3 hours ago, GCn20 said:

Baloney to blaming coaching for poor drafting. That's a reach and you know it.

So, you don't think Osh has a say in who he wants? He's right there telling Walters who to draft. Walters doesn't do it alone. 

[SpeedFlex27]

17 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

I think there's too much trust in coordinators who haven't earned it.  All 3.  And that's on O'Shea.

When did we ever have so many guys with no role on O or D?  That's the whole point of "next man up/everyone is a starter."

We've got like 22 guys dressed on D and we use 14 of them.

Well, he did give the STC to Mike Miller just a couple of years from playing as he liked him. Of all the Coordinators, he's done the best. 

[Goalie]

26 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

So, you don't think Osh has a say in who he wants? He's right there telling Walters who to draft. Walters doesn't do it alone. 

Those videos make it seem like everything is very much a team effort. Same with the weekly game plan. It’s not just O’Shea putting it together. It’s O’Shea it’s hogan it’s younger it’s miller. I don’t think O’Shea is telling Walters to draft this guy or that guy tho. He’s there to enjoy the process. Same reason the nhl coach is there at the nhl draft,he might not be the coach when player is ready tho.  
 

Walters and the scouts. If the head coach who is the head coach and not a scout is making final decisions honestly what does Walters do. Not saying you but there’s lots of posts on here who will go out their way to try to link something the gm normally does and says it’s O’Shea when it’s not cuz if it is, there’s no point in having the gm then. Like can’t believe Osh let lawler go. I mean at what point is it the gm. What does Walters Do then. Nothing? 
 

 

[SpeedFlex27]

Just now, Goalie said:

Those videos make it seem like everything is very much a team effort. Same with the weekly game plan. It’s not just O’Shea putting it together. It’s O’Shea it’s hogan it’s younger it’s miller. I don’t think O’Shea is telling Walters to draft this guy or that guy tho. He’s there to enjoy the process. Same reason the nhl coach is there at the nhl draft,he might not be the coach when player is ready tho.  
 

Walters and the scouts. If the head coach who is the head coach and not a scout is making final decisions honestly what does Walters do. Not saying you but there’s lots of posts on here who will go out their way to try to link something the gm normally does and says it’s O’Shea when it’s not cuz if it is, there’s no point in having the gm then. Like can’t believe Osh let lawler go. I mean at what point is it the gm. What does Walters Do then. Nothing? 
 

 

How do we know Osh didn't think he had the horses at receiver to survive without Lawler? He probably did as he's not the best at evaluating talent. The 2 do work as a team. Besides, Osh has a lot of influence. Probably more than other Head Coaches. 

[Stickem]

Great to see Pokey returning...that'll give us a lift....Now if Houston can be inserted next game, it should help with coverage and maybe get back to our winning ways....I know we are going to be loud and that'll help... and lord knows we need all the help we can get

[JuranBoldenRules]

20 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

How do we know Osh didn't think he had the horses at receiver to survive without Lawler? He probably did as he's not the best at evaluating talent. The 2 do work as a team. Besides, Osh has a lot of influence. Probably more than other Head Coaches. 

Walters (and famously other GM's) have been pretty clear at what their line is for paying receivers, right or wrong.  Walters has scoffed at Lawler's price tag twice, and pretty publicly with detailed interviews.

I can't see any head coach being happy about losing Lawler.  But I know MOS has an irrational belief in his staff and what he's built.  Including the personnel department who have been pretty terrible on the American side basically since 2022.

[Blueandgold]

6 hours ago, sweep the leg said:

I agree the best option is to keep both, but they need to figure out what this team is. We’re a slightly better version of the 2004 team right now. 

Jefferson, Thomas, Neufeld, Wilson, Logan, Vaughters, & probably even Bryant (with an immediate hof induction) shouldn’t be on the team next year. That’s a lot of cash to remake this team in the offseason. 

Eh I don’t think we’re nearly as bad as 2004. 2003 is a better comparison. Kenton Keith still haunts my dreams from that year.

[sweep the leg]

2 hours ago, Blueandgold said:

Eh I don’t think we’re nearly as bad as 2004. 2003 is a better comparison. Kenton Keith still haunts my dreams from that year.

I think we’re actually somewhere in between. I agree we’re not ‘04 bad, I kinda forgot how bad we really were that year.

The Kenton Keith game being at home really sucked.

[GCn20]

15 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

So, you don't think Osh has a say in who he wants? He's right there telling Walters who to draft. Walters doesn't do it alone. 

I think I watched the entire video of behind the draft and Walters definitely, and 100%, has final say. I didn't even hear MOS say a word the whole time until Walters had decided and even then Walters said OK this who we are going with, Mike you're good with that? And it wasn't so much him asking MOS but telling him.

15 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

How do we know Osh didn't think he had the horses at receiver to survive without Lawler? He probably did as he's not the best at evaluating talent. The 2 do work as a team. Besides, Osh has a lot of influence. Probably more than other Head Coaches. 

You guys are really reaching now. I am sure that MOS said yea we don't need Kenny Lawler. 🤣

14 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Walters (and famously other GM's) have been pretty clear at what their line is for paying receivers, right or wrong.  Walters has scoffed at Lawler's price tag twice, and pretty publicly with detailed interviews.

I can't see any head coach being happy about losing Lawler.  But I know MOS has an irrational belief in his staff and what he's built.  Including the personnel department who have been pretty terrible on the American side basically since 2022.

Post Rigmaiden it has not been good.

Edited 7 hours ago by GCn20

[BomberBall.]

O’Shea does have a say on who gets drafted and he absolutely lobbies for players he likes/wants.  Walters has the final say.  Both things are true.

[Pete]

13 minutes ago, BomberBall. said:

O’Shea does have a say on who gets drafted and he absolutely lobbies for players he likes/wants.  Walters has the final say.  Both things are true.

Likely they were looking at the whole team, we had spent a disproportionate ount on offence esp at reciever and needed to adjust, this was prior to extra 400k being announced. they gambled on Schoen returning to form

As head coach OShea was looking at the whole team.in setting priorities, didnt anticipate that most of their free agent finds would suck

[Booch]

IN pro football...a HC will let his G.M and scouting staff know what kind of player and skill set he looking for for about 80 percent of his roster....and the staff will also bring some in outliers they like to fill it out, as well as some prospects....Thats how it works

The G.M for the most part isnt out bird dogging either.....not his role. He's more the make it work within budget/sms guy and completes all the trans actions

He does not cut guys going over the head of the Coach...nor forces guys on field at the behest of his HC

The roster we have/had is the vison of Osh...Not the scouting staff and G.M.....Sure there are some variances here and there and some other circumstances (guys falling in your lap..etc) but they miniscule at best

I sure with some questionable stuff there is discussion about it but if the HC sells his point they gonna trust him until that trust wears thin....are we there now?...who knows

Top to bottom our staff has failed in several capacities the last 3..4 yrs...G.M to H.C....and they reason/problem/disconnect needs to be figured out lickity split or we gonna see this trend continue 

The frustrating part save for the real lack of urgency this yr in player signings, or lack there of and coaching...waiting well into new yr for an O.C only to promote a guy totally not ready/qualified for the job, os that we continue to make a lot of the same stupid mistakes/moves over..and over...and over.....which lends one to think this crew in current format has hit it's best before date and has no answer now and needs to be rebooted

Edited 5 hours ago by Booch

[Mark H.]

Then it works both ways:

The 2018 - 2022 was also team that the HC wanted.

[Brandon]

I'm assuming a large issue is the loss of Rigmaiden and Goveia?  

[Booch]

3 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

Then it works both ways:

The 2018 - 2022 was also team that the HC wanted.

yeah and he still relying on those same guys for a lot of parts of roster

Also coaches need to change thier philosophy and how they go about things too...their process a it doesnt work forever...evolve and adapt or die...and he hasn't whatsoever

He was also supplied with players in their prime and best at their posotion...so success should have been the result....they are now not in may instances

Historically the trends for sports is after teams start to struggle and fail that a HC change occurs about 80% of the time first...as they are most responsible for game performance...good....and bad....

It's almost always the first move as a G.M switch is more prone for bigger organizational shifting...or change...and most times unless it's real incompetence, there is no evidence right now for that....also a HC firing, or moving on from one is gonna show the team is looking for accountability before blowing everything up...and totally disemboweling your front office...thats just how she goes

Coach goes first, and if things continue down same path...or worse...G.M gets chopped

If we fail again this yr it's not far fetched to move on from the coach....it's a what have you done business after all....and we failed 3 straight seasons...and the 4th isnt looking super rosey either

2 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I'm assuming a large issue is the loss of Rigmaiden and Goveia?  

doubt it...neither of the teams they went to are ripping the league a new arse like were in our prime

We brought in a good crew of guys to replace them...and Penn....That excuse is just that...an excuse with no validity to it

[Tracker]

19 hours ago, Stickem said:

Great to see Pokey returning...that'll give us a lift....Now if Houston can be inserted next game, it should help with coverage and maybe get back to our winning ways....I know we are going to be loud and that'll help... and lord knows we need all the help we can get

Pokey's return will likely mean the team gets a bit better but I doubt that it will prevent the Blue from flirting with a .500 record, staggering into the playoffs and getting soundly trounced in the first round, I fear this will somehow justify keeping the same cast of characters for yet another year of futility.

[wbbfan]

7 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I'm assuming a large issue is the loss of Rigmaiden and Goveia?  

I think that is a symptom of the greater problem. I'm a big fan of both those guys, but in general, since the 19 GC win, we've been losing more than we have brought in. That is across the board and from the roster up to management.

From Kongbo, Hansen, Alford, Desjarlais, Stove, Lawler (twice), etc, over to Ryan, Ted, Cyril, Bourgoins, and more. We have hemorrhaged talent in all areas and brought in very little to replace the losses. 

 Championship teams always go through that. But where prior to 19, we played an active role in FA trying to improve, we became complacent and expected that retaining as many of our pieces and developing guys internally would keep us at the top of the league. Problem is, many of our best moves in the mafia era are free agent scores from other teams. Combine that with the fact that our coach wants to ride the old guard into the dust, no matter who is backing them up and what they are capable of, and you have a massive collapse of what should've been the greatest dynasty in league history. 

The problem is Mos, but it is also Walters. And it's also Wade for not prevent the other 2 from messing up so badly. 

They need to skip blame (which they would't consider any way) and go right into root cause and repair. Whose replacement makes you better off, today and in the future? Who is easier to replace, and can either be recovered to be top tier in their jobs here again? 

But I don't think anyone involved is willing to have that conversation yet. It might not even end up being one; it might be Wade getting called into a BOG meeting and getting the choice of who goes. 

As others have pointed out, the Ham game after the BJB will be a big game for us. 3-5 in our last 8 games. if we win 1 of the next 2, bc/edmonton likely passes us for the last play off spot in the west / the cross over. After that, we had Ham, Ssk, and Mtl, which will all be tough win,s plus ott in ot,t which is always hard for us. The 1 remaining game, vs edm on the road, might not be a freebie either. 

With 7 games left, 4 wins likely gaurentees the play offs. 3 wins, if we beat edmonton likely puts us in. But in that case, we need toronto to strugle down the stretch. 

[Noeller]

26 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I'm assuming a large issue is the loss of Rigmaiden and Goveia?  

Walters also noted that it has become increasingly difficult to get guys to come north because of the new spring leagues, and changes to the NFL roster rules. It's just a lot tougher finding US talent. Having said that, other teams are finding players so we need to do that too. 

[17to85]

Honestly too much time was spent living in their glory days of 2019, 2021 etc. Losing by 1 in 2022 with collaros on a bum ankle was the worst outcome. Delayed changes, and the  making 2 more cup games just reinforced the idea their core was still good enough. Too little change post 2022 is the problem IMO. Yes I know there has been a lot of roster turnover... but I think a change in philosophy was warranted because steady as she goes isn't working anymore.

[Tracker]

You do not have to go far to see CFL examples in the CFL of rapid turnarounds. Calgary, the Riders and TiCats to be exact, and Dickinson rebuilt his team while filling the roles of GM and head coach and spoon-feeding his brother, Why can't we have nice things any more?

[Mark H.]

IMO, there have been 2 major shifts in philosophy:

On D, less focus on pressure and more coverage. Richie Hall brought far more pressure, even though he usually had a better secondary than they have now.

On O, more downfield passing and less bully bull 

On STs, interestingly enough, they gone back to more the aggressive style of play we used to see.

[Noeller]

7 minutes ago, Tracker said:

You do not have to go far to see CFL examples in the CFL of rapid turnarounds. Calgary... Dickinson rebuilt his team while filling the roles of GM and head coach

And this is a big reason why I don't think we necessarily need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. If the Stamps can turn it around with the same management then so can we.

Edited 2 hours ago by Noeller

[Blue28]

Interesting discussion.

I agree that the HC has significant impact in what type of players/who the GM drafts and signs. The GM is not going to sign someone the HC will not play - does not make economic sense. 

8 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Honestly too much time was spent living in their glory days of 2019, 2021 etc. Losing by 1 in 2022 with collaros on a bum ankle was the worst outcome. Delayed changes, and the  making 2 more cup games just reinforced the idea their core was still good enough. Too little change post 2022 is the problem IMO. Yes I know there has been a lot of roster turnover... but I think a change in philosophy was warranted because steady as she goes isn't working anymore.

I agree we have spent significant time living in 2019-2022 - and staying consistent with our approach.

We should all acknowledge (and hopefully the powers that be) - that i) we have been unlucky/unwise with the free agent signings, ii) we have held on to some players far past their best before dates, iii) have had some significant injury woes,  iv) seemingly utilized poor roster management, and v) made a questionable choice on OC.

I don't think that the Bombers are at the 'fire everyone' stage, even though as fans we are frustrated, with that frustration stemming from a 'stay the course' attitude - instead of innovating, stagnating. We see from the outside looking in - that the organization seems to be unwilling to evolve. 

Miller/Walters/Osh would be better off to become a bit flexible, be willing to accept a bit of change.

I have been pretty frustrated - but I don't want to go back to the Reinbold years, and almost 30 years without a cup. The understand we are going to lose - but we should not lose due to effort, planning or leadership. 

If Miller/Walters/Osh make strides to better decision making - I will be happy - even if we don't make the playoffs. You can't expect some of the older players to play like all-stars all the time, but one should expect that you have someone rostered who can spell them off - so they are fresh.

Apologies for the rant!

[Booch]

9 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Honestly too much time was spent living in their glory days of 2019, 2021 etc. Losing by 1 in 2022 with collaros on a bum ankle was the worst outcome. Delayed changes, and the  making 2 more cup games just reinforced the idea their core was still good enough. Too little change post 2022 is the problem IMO. Yes I know there has been a lot of roster turnover... but I think a change in philosophy was warranted because steady as she goes isn't working anymore.

Roster turn over only by injury..(don't ban me again @Mark H. as injury is only way we change) or by defection...not from a guy out playing or showing more potential.

Many instances of guys out playing vets in preseason...yet never or rarely get kept..or if do don't get a shot and rot on PR

Don't have to replace every one at once but 1 or 2 a yr...and your roster fluidity thrives and your depth/backups become actually capable...be it a new face or a vet pushed to backup roll...we fail miserably at that here due to Osh way of rostering and penchant for valuing any vet regardless of skill..its very apparent

@wbbfan hit nail on head with his post.

Walters needs to step up and be the boss and if he gets resistance by his coach then needs to rectify it

And if he can't perform that task the Prez who technically is the owner here needs to make some decisions 

And as u said here @17to85..standing pat...resting on your laurels and living with your past success thinking it will manifest again...pretty much pushing 6..7 yrs now is just asking to fail...just as your roster has to evolve and change...your way of doing things...how you coach and scheme needs to as well...especially 12 yrs into it...

[Tracker]

3 minutes ago, Noeller said:

And this is a big reason why I don't think we necessarily need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. If the Stamps can turn it around with the same management then so can we.

O'Shea has repeatedly demonstrated that he is rigid in his thinking and thus resistant to change or criticism. His personality is such that, if pressured, he will double down.