I agree there comes a point where talent has to win out. There is a balance though just look at the Maple leafs, they had talent but as a team they lacked the willingness to go to battle for each other. 

 This year I hope that players like Cam Allen at safety and Gowan at corner get a legitimate shot at starter positions. Bridges might be ok but hes not gonna replace Ford 

Just because a player is a vet...or been here a few yrs....doesnt make them better....or the best option....or higher potential....and in the end make you a better squad and more well rounded...we have gotten away from thtt here....some the intangibles shouldn't trump talent

We have enough vets and leaders....and according to all the culture/character in place to easily bring on new....younger...hungrier guys with zero issues....saying other wise is false

And as this regime claims they "only" bring in a certain kinda guy to fit said culture...so makes even more reason to play the best over the weak sisters, as should be a perfect fit

One lil tidbit one if was listening from Danny Mac...was his comment about trying to find a player that Osh "will play"  

That is a pretty good indicator that at times a player is played on an Osh like's for whatever reason, rather than most talented. W e have seen that in spades with him so not a stretch by any means.

14 minutes ago, Booch said:

One lil tidbit one if was listening from Danny Mac...was his comment about trying to find a player that Osh "will play"  

That is a pretty good indicator that at times a player is played on an Osh like's for whatever reason, rather than most talented. W e have seen that in spades with him so not a stretch by any means.

It would be interesting to know what determines playing one guy over another from the mind of O'Shea.  

I can understand character issues if you have  self destructive guy who can be a cancer for a locker room for which his athletic / gameday ability  is great but the overall value afterwards isn't worth it.    I can't imagine over the last many years that we brought in guys who fit that negative criteria for which we dress a Navy Seal with D- level skills over numerous players who clearly have a much better upside.  

11 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

This year's winner of the Do Absolutely Nothing At Training Camp Club & Get Your Job Handed Back To You, No Questions asked

4th year running...

1 hour ago, Booch said:

Just because a player is a vet...or been here a few yrs....doesnt make them better....or the best option....or higher potential....and in the end make you a better squad and more well rounded...we have gotten away from thtt here....some the intangibles shouldn't trump talent

We have enough vets and leaders....and according to all the culture/character in place to easily bring on new....younger...hungrier guys with zero issues....saying other wise is false

And as this regime claims they "only" bring in a certain kinda guy to fit said culture...so makes even more reason to play the best over the weak sisters, as should be a perfect fit

One lil tidbit one if was listening from Danny Mac...was his comment about trying to find a player that Osh "will play"  

That is a pretty good indicator that at times a player is played on an Osh like's for whatever reason, rather than most talented. W e have seen that in spades with him so not a stretch by any means.

I guess if you want to take Danny Mac's comments out of context then you may have a point. Every recruiter on every team has the challenge of finding players that fit the coaching scheme. You are making a benign comment by a scout into something much more than what it was to try and further your agenda.  Of course, our recruiters are going to try find players that fit our culture, it is by far the single biggest reason for our success over recent years. If not for that we are the Riders.

37 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I guess if you want to take Danny Mac's comments out of context then you may have a point. Every recruiter on every team has the challenge of finding players that fit the coaching scheme. You are making a benign comment by a scout into something much more than what it was to try and further your agenda.  Of course, our recruiters are going to try find players that fit our culture, it is by far the single biggest reason for our success over recent years. If not for that we are the Riders.

I recruit players for varying programs...and it wasnt a comment based on "skill" or "ability"...nor furthering an "agenda"...tho u seem to like to maintain yours with anyone who criticises the coach or how he goes about "some" things....not "all" things so get that part straight.  Many here claim and think Osh does no wrong. Has no serious flaws..and is always right...and that just not the case.

I know full well when recruiting and scouting what a program wants and is looking for...also not foolish enough to see in the Bombers case that at times our beloved can't do wrong coach values some things...many of which are a mystery to many over actual talent and the better player...this culture thing is so over blown and over used it's getting laughable...it's not some new idea we created nor we branded...and if u have a solid room and a hands on coaching staff you can get any player to buy in...unkess u bring in a guy like Marshal in Sask or the like....some guys are just assholes..and if u can't...he gets a ticket outta town....

Funniest thing is that many many MANY players that have played here.. and elsewhere...many who are lauded as legends and best ever...wouldn't have "the character" to play on an Osh led team...and sometimes you need to look past the scheme or where u have predetermined either a Canadian or American position and if you find a player who would necessitate a switch...you bring them in...

Edited May 20, 2025May 20 by Booch

5 minutes ago, Booch said:

I recruit players for varying programs...and it wasnt a comment based on "skill" or "ability"...nor furthering an "agenda"...tho u seem to like to maintain yours with anyone who criticises the coach or how he goes about "some" things....not "all" things so get that part straight.  Many here claim and think Osh does no wrong. Has no serious flaws..and is always right...and that just not the case.

I know full well when recruiting and scouting what a program wants and is looking for...also not foolish enough to see in the Bombers case that at times our beloved can't do wrong coach values some things...many of which are a mystery to many over actual talent and the better player...this culture thing is so over blown and over used it's getting laughable...it's not some new idea we created nor we branded...and if u have a solid room and a hands on coaching staff you can get any player to buy in...unkess u bring in a guy like Marshal in Sask or the like....some guys are just assholes..and if u can't...he gets a ticket outta town....

Funniest thing is that many many MANY players that have played here.. and elsewhere...many who are lauded as legends and best ever...wouldn't have "the character" to play on an Osh led team...and sometimes you need to look past the scheme or where u have predetermined either a Canadian or American position and if you find a player who would necessitate a switch...you bring them in...

Roster usage is a valid criticism of MOS. However, you are stretching things by implying that Danny was suggesting that MOS handcuffs the recruitment process, and that is nonsense.

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

It would be interesting to know what determines playing one guy over another from the mind of O'Shea.  

I can understand character issues if you have  self destructive guy who can be a cancer for a locker room for which his athletic / gameday ability  is great but the overall value afterwards isn't worth it.    I can't imagine over the last many years that we brought in guys who fit that negative criteria for which we dress a Navy Seal with D- level skills over numerous players who clearly have a much better upside.  

It's simple, MOS invests in people he trusts to follow his path and rewards them with loyalty and support.  If he moved on to the next best talent at the drop of a hat he would have a hard time creating order, discipline, continuity, or peaceful camaraderie as everybody would be looking over their shoulder viewing other players and coaches as a potential enemy instead of a teammate.

The environment Booch wants to emulate, is the area Chris Jones has failed at numerous times.

1 minute ago, Fatty Liver said:

It's simple, MOS invests in people he trusts to follow his path and rewards them with loyalty and support.  If he moved on to the next best talent at the drop of a hat he would have a hard time creating order, discipline, continuity, or peaceful camaraderie as everybody would be looking over their shoulder viewing other players and coaches as a potential enemy instead of a teammate.

The environment Booch wants to emulate, is the area Chris Jones has failed at numerous times.

It's easy to evaluate talent, any fan can do it because there is an eyeball test. What makes good professional coaches head and shoulders above fans is their ability to see the intangibles and knowing how to build a consistent winning culture. If talent were everything then guys like Chris Jones and Rick Campbell wouldn't be unemployed. My long winded way of saying I agree. 

Booch is in mid-season form. Vets don't need a training camp i guess.

21 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

It's easy to evaluate talent, any fan can do it because there is an eyeball test. What makes good professional coaches head and shoulders above fans is their ability to see the intangibles and knowing how to build a consistent winning culture. If talent were everything then guys like Chris Jones and Rick Campbell wouldn't be unemployed. My long winded way of saying I agree. 

Rick is back in Ottawa starting over as their STC.

1 hour ago, Fatty Liver said:

The environment Booch wants to emulate, is the area Chris Jones has failed at numerous times.

I'd say it's more like Joe Mack. Mack brought in all sorts of athletes and expected the coaches to make em football players.

47 minutes ago, Fatty Liver said:

Rick is back in Ottawa starting over as their STC.

And Jones is working for Bill Belichick at the University of North Carolina. 

1 hour ago, Fatty Liver said:

It's simple, MOS invests in people he trusts to follow his path and rewards them with loyalty and support.  If he moved on to the next best talent at the drop of a hat he would have a hard time creating order, discipline, continuity, or peaceful camaraderie as everybody would be looking over their shoulder viewing other players and coaches as a potential enemy instead of a teammate.

The environment Booch wants to emulate, is the area Chris Jones has failed at numerous times.

What does this mean exactly?

1 hour ago, HardCoreBlue said:

What does this mean exactly?

His vision of how a team should perform and behave, the fact he embraced a Navy Seal on principal should be an indication of the character he prizes in individuals, he wants unselfish players that will make sacrifices for the betterment of the team.

3 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Booch is in mid-season form. Vets don't need a training camp i guess.

Booch clearly focused on his off season training.

4 hours ago, Fatty Liver said:

It's simple, MOS invests in people he trusts to follow his path and rewards them with loyalty and support.  If he moved on to the next best talent at the drop of a hat he would have a hard time creating order, discipline, continuity, or peaceful camaraderie as everybody would be looking over their shoulder viewing other players and coaches as a potential enemy instead of a teammate.

The environment Booch wants to emulate, is the area Chris Jones has failed at numerous times.

I was told on these boards 1000 times that Wally Buono could do no wrong because he would cut a declining vet before his expired date.   

 

5 hours ago, GCn20 said:

Roster usage is a valid criticism of MOS. However, you are stretching things by implying that Danny was suggesting that MOS handcuffs the recruitment process, and that is nonsense.

Lots of the players people hype on here end up being cut then never heard from ever again. Part of me feels ppl hype up guys cuz then when they get cut they can complain about that or keeping Canadians instead perhaps ignoring the ratio. It’s like got rid of “insert random ncaa guy who had a good year in college one time” but kept Jake. Eventho they weren’t competing for the same spot but alas it’s the internet.  Welcome to the internet. I’ve been to 1 practice the last 2 years now. Unless peeps make daily visits to camp it’s all just nonsense really. Or know what the coaches are actually looking for. 

Edited May 20, 2025May 20 by Goalie

22 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I was told on these boards 1000 times that Wally Buono could do no wrong because he would cut a declining vet before his expired date.   

 

Like Andrew Harris?

55 minutes ago, Fatty Liver said:

His vision of how a team should perform and behave, the fact he embraced a Navy Seal on principal should be an indication of the character he prizes in individuals, he wants unselfish players that will make sacrifices for the betterment of the team.

Fair, great vision thank you love me some MOS but much more complex in terms of how that vision translates into behaviours, actions, decisions, reality.

To defend @Booch at bit here, whom btw I don't agree on everything he posts here (love you brother), I don't think he has ever said drop players as soon as better talent arrives on the scene, not caring about creating order, discipline, continuity, or peaceful camaraderie. You present this in an very extreme black and white manner. There's lots of grey here and room for varying interpretation in how said vision is achieve. In fact, I don't think many of us here on Morning Big Blue think like this extreme or, as you say, emulate wanting Chris Jones way of doing business here in Bomberland.

I know you and some others get tired of hearing names like Jake Thomas come up over and over again but as long as decisions are being made to keep putting players like him (I love what JT has done for us) on the field, reality tells us it is not to the betterment of the team and does not correlate well with certain parts of said vision.

 

8 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Fair, great vision thank you love me some MOS but much more complex in terms of how that vision translates into behaviours, actions, decisions, reality.

To defend @Booch at bit here, whom btw I don't agree on everything he posts here (love you brother), I don't think he has ever said drop players as soon as better talent arrives on the scene, not caring about creating order, discipline, continuity, or peaceful camaraderie. You present this in an very extreme black and white manner. There's lots of grey here and room for varying interpretation in how said vision is achieve. In fact, I don't think many of us here on Morning Big Blue think like this extreme or, as you say, emulate wanting Chris Jones way of doing business here in Bomberland.

I know you and some others get tired of hearing names like Jake Thomas come up over and over again but as long as decisions are being made to keep putting players like him (I love what JT has done for us) on the field, reality tells us it is not to the betterment of the team and does not correlate well with certain parts of said vision.

 

Jake just has to be better than 1 Canadian really. He’s not really competing with the kids brought in from the ncaa. Jake is Canadian right so you can’t really make the comparison. Jake is competing with a couple other Canadians. Yeah ideally he’s not rostered but at the same time, perhaps at the end of the day the intangibles he brings maybe in the room outweighs the ability of the bottom of the barrel Canadians every team dresses on their roster. Compare Jake to other teams Canadians and it’s not as bad if you don’t look at him as a starter which he shouldn’t be. There’s a spot for a good room guy who gets limited reps. Jake’s problem is he is played like a starter. If he was treated and used like the last Canadian on the roster really, not so bad. Perhaps we on track to replace him soon tho as it appears there’s a ton of Canadian Lbs depth and maybe they decide to go all American DL because they can start another Canadian LB eventually. 

Edited May 20, 2025May 20 by Goalie

5 hours ago, GCn20 said:

Roster usage is a valid criticism of MOS. However, you are stretching things by implying that Danny was suggesting that MOS handcuffs the recruitment process, and that is nonsense.

And can you say without question he doesn't? 

 

5 hours ago, Fatty Liver said:

It's simple, MOS invests in people he trusts to follow his path and rewards them with loyalty and support.  If he moved on to the next best talent at the drop of a hat he would have a hard time creating order, discipline, continuity, or peaceful camaraderie as everybody would be looking over their shoulder viewing other players and coaches as a potential enemy instead of a teammate.

The environment Booch wants to emulate, is the area Chris Jones has failed at numerous times.

Totally wrong...try again...moreso Murphy...Mathews...Riley...Bouno..

 

5 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Booch is in mid-season form. Vets don't need a training camp i guess.

Vets prob more than anyone need it

4 hours ago, 17to85 said:

I'd say it's more like Joe Mack. Mack brought in all sorts of athletes and expected the coaches to make em football players.

Sadly u missed the boat...but also...yes coaches should too...u are correct there...1980's Mack brought in a ton of talent to the cfl btw...and yup...coaches did get best out of them...your point is again?

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

I was told on these boards 1000 times that Wally Buono could do no wrong because he would cut a declining vet before his expired date.   

 

Moreso Bouno didnt wanna pay...plus Harris wanted to go home...was lose lose situ for Bouno

40 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Fair, great vision thank you love me some MOS but much more complex in terms of how that vision translates into behaviours, actions, decisions, reality.

To defend @Booch at bit here, whom btw I don't agree on everything he posts here (love you brother), I don't think he has ever said drop players as soon as better talent arrives on the scene, not caring about creating order, discipline, continuity, or peaceful camaraderie. You present this in an very extreme black and white manner. There's lots of grey here and room for varying interpretation in how said vision is achieve. In fact, I don't think many of us here on Morning Big Blue think like this extreme or, as you say, emulate wanting Chris Jones way of doing business here in Bomberland.

I know you and some others get tired of hearing names like Jake Thomas come up over and over again but as long as decisions are being made to keep putting players like him (I love what JT has done for us) on the field, reality tells us it is not to the betterment of the team and does not correlate well with certain parts of said vision.

 

True competition is not done here...particularly after 2nd grey cup...and what had happened since...cup losses due to basically...weakened ..old...oft injured roster...and poor coaching decisions...that's about as black and white as it gets. 3 games...3 losses to major under dogs...not an abberation...a trend now...or is it a serious flaws on how we do business on the field? When vets are complacent and comfortable knowing they safe....well

Look at T.O ...2 cups in 3 yrs...handling us with ease basically in both with guys...numerous guys on their roster who wouldn't make the litmus test here in "kind of player" we feel is best...explain that one? Mtl too beat us with a me first whiny QB...a former hot head nut HC...HC evolved...changed how he did things...made several me first guys buy in...Beat us....1 loss in 3 of those could be construed as a blip..anomaly...one off...3 straight for much the same reasons...that's a issue teetering on a problem

45 minutes ago, Booch said:

them...your point is again?

Wasn't a criticism, more of an observation. From my perspective Joe Mack was a guy who valued athleticism. That's all.

48 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Wasn't a criticism, more of an observation. From my perspective Joe Mack was a guy who valued athleticism. That's all.

Yeah...I didnt see it as a criticism..kinda lumped my retort all in one...but he did look to bring in "athletes" and "was" successful at it...his second run here he was on glue I think...flopped bigtime

9 hours ago, Fatty Liver said:

It's simple, MOS invests in people he trusts to follow his path and rewards them with loyalty and support.  If he moved on to the next best talent at the drop of a hat he would have a hard time creating order, discipline, continuity, or peaceful camaraderie as everybody would be looking over their shoulder viewing other players and coaches as a potential enemy instead of a teammate.

The environment Booch wants to emulate, is the area Chris Jones has failed at numerous times.

Chris Jones is actually one of the worst for wanting exactly what he wants at certain positions to the detriment of building a good football team, particularly on defense.