I am shocked at how the coaches panicked when Collaros went out. They had the ball in the red zone and aired it out 4 times. Not one run.

Then collaros returns. Instead of a few throws on the sidelines , put him right in and he promptly throws an interception.

A team that is prepared does not make those mistakes. O'Shea has come along way as a coach but his stubborness or reliance on those around him was shocking at the most crucial time of the game.

 

 

You want the run more involved stop going 2 and out.

8 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

You want the run more involved stop going 2 and out.

I was specifically referring to the series Collaros went out and then the first series back. Pure panick.

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

You want the run more involved stop going 2 and out.

We had 8 drives with no runs, not including the last or keeling at the half. 4 2 and outs 2 picks. That’s out of 13 total drives (again with out the final drive of the half and Game for us) 

We didn’t run till just before the 3 minute mark of the first half. 

A big part of continually going 2 and out was not running. We had 1 pick on 2nd down after a run, and 2 2 n outs. On the 2 and outs we gained 5 yards on the ground on first down and threw incompletions after on 2nd down. 
 

We went 2 and out because we didn’t run, and couldn’t string together completions. A part of not being able to string together completions is not running which means you can’t use play action. 

12 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

We had 8 drives with no runs, not including the last or keeling at the half. 4 2 and outs 2 picks. That’s out of 13 total drives (again with out the final drive of the half and Game for us) 

We didn’t run till just before the 3 minute mark of the first half. 

A big part of continually going 2 and out was not running. We had 1 pick on 2nd down after a run, and 2 2 n outs. On the 2 and outs we gained 5 yards on the ground on first down and threw incompletions after on 2nd down. 
 

We went 2 and out because we didn’t run, and couldn’t string together completions. A part of not being able to string together completions is not running which means you can’t use play action. 

Like the Sask game we tried to use BO as a decoy right off the hop but unlike the Sask game our O did not achieve any flow to their overall game for a variety of reasons.

No flow no rhythm no win

24 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

We had 8 drives with no runs, not including the last or keeling at the half. 4 2 and outs 2 picks. That’s out of 13 total drives (again with out the final drive of the half and Game for us) 

We didn’t run till just before the 3 minute mark of the first half. 

A big part of continually going 2 and out was not running. We had 1 pick on 2nd down after a run, and 2 2 n outs. On the 2 and outs we gained 5 yards on the ground on first down and threw incompletions after on 2nd down. 
 

We went 2 and out because we didn’t run, and couldn’t string together completions. A part of not being able to string together completions is not running which means you can’t use play action. 

I could feel my then-cautious optimism drop like a stone in a well when the Bombers took a knee just before half-time with 45 seconds or so left. That felt like the bombers were conceding that they had no hope of completing a couple of passes to get within field goal range before time ran out. The icing on the cake came when they went 2 and out at the start of the third quarter. As a behaviourist, I noted that the o-line heads were down and I figured that was confirmation the game was over, whether the Bombers admitted it or not, I would bet the Argo coaches saw that too.

coaching was gonna be our demise....and or we win in spite of some things....said it early and often....and sadly was true to form, and at times I don\t like being right.....but it is what it is and seen it on the horizon....Like a lot of our past success that lil run during the putrid start just masked and glossed over the issues....time for some serious change in how we do things

1 hour ago, Tracker said:

I could feel my then-cautious optimism drop like a stone in a well when the Bombers took a knee just before half-time with 45 seconds or so left. That felt like the bombers were conceding that they had no hope of completing a couple of passes to get within field goal range before time ran out. The icing on the cake came when they went 2 and out at the start of the third quarter. As a behaviourist, I noted that the o-line heads were down and I figured that was confirmation the game was over, whether the Bombers admitted it or not, I would bet the Argo coaches saw that too.

Agree. One maybe two first downs away from a fg too. 
 

 

18 hours ago, sportmentary2012 said:

I am shocked at how the coaches panicked when Collaros went out. They had the ball in the red zone and aired it out 4 times. Not one run.

Then collaros returns. Instead of a few throws on the sidelines , put him right in and he promptly throws an interception.

A team that is prepared does not make those mistakes. O'Shea has come along way as a coach but his stubborness or reliance on those around him was shocking at the most crucial time of the game.

 

 

Disagree with your post. A team that prepares can make a ton of mistakes. Has nothing to do with preparedness. has everything to do with execution and motivation. Going 4 straight passes with Wilson seems mystifying until you see the defensive formation. Any OC, and any QB ever will take what the defence is giving. BO, or not, running into the teeth of an Argonaut 8 man box is stupidity. Why do you go back to Collaros, because realistically he is your only chance at victory and has been since Streveler went down. Wilson has shown progress but he is not there yet. Our only hope was that Zac can fight through the injury and find a way. He couldn't and didn't. Doesn't make it the wrong decision though, just means that we had a roster issue that wasn't addressed when it needed to be addressed earlier in the season.

16 hours ago, Booch said:

coaching was gonna be our demise....and or we win in spite of some things....said it early and often....and sadly was true to form, and at times I don\t like being right.....but it is what it is and seen it on the horizon....Like a lot of our past success that lil run during the putrid start just masked and glossed over the issues....time for some serious change in how we do things

You THINK you are right. I'm not defending the coaching, but you are letting the players off the hook here. This game was 95% on players stinking and 5% on coaching.

11 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Disagree with your post. A team that prepares can make a ton of mistakes. Has nothing to do with preparedness. has everything to do with execution and motivation. Going 4 straight passes with Wilson seems mystifying until you see the defensive formation. Any OC, and any QB ever will take what the defence is giving. BO, or not, running into the teeth of an Argonaut 8 man box is stupidity. Why do you go back to Collaros, because realistically he is your only chance at victory and has been since Streveler went down. Wilson has shown progress but he is not there yet. Our only hope was that Zac can fight through the injury and find a way. He couldn't and didn't. Doesn't make it the wrong decision though, just means that we had a roster issue that wasn't addressed when it needed to be addressed earlier in the season.

You THINK you are right. I'm not defending the coaching, but you are letting the players off the hook here. This game was 95% on players stinking and 5% on coaching.

you think you are right too....and can't see any different angle...U love Osh...we get it....and maybe the coach should play better players??...hmmm...theres a wild thought...he rosters the players....and as HEAD CAOCH is responsible to make sure whateverplayer is rostered is ready...healthy....and prepared for any circumstance that comes up

15 minutes ago, Booch said:

you think you are right too....and can't see any different angle...U love Osh...we get it....and maybe the coach should play better players??...hmmm...theres a wild thought...he rosters the players....and as HEAD CAOCH is responsible to make sure whateverplayer is rostered is ready...healthy....and prepared for any circumstance that comes up

You have said the same stuff for what 6 years now. Maybe more. Understand you don’t have all the answers. That’s the problem here. Some of you think you are actually in the room when you’re in a ******* chat room. 
 

enjoy the off season.  Time for an extended break. 

Edited November 19, 20241 yr by Goalie

11 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Disagree with your post. A team that prepares can make a ton of mistakes. Has nothing to do with preparedness. has everything to do with execution and motivation. Going 4 straight passes with Wilson seems mystifying until you see the defensive formation. Any OC, and any QB ever will take what the defence is giving. BO, or not, running into the teeth of an Argonaut 8 man box is stupidity. Why do you go back to Collaros, because realistically he is your only chance at victory and has been since Streveler went down. Wilson has shown progress but he is not there yet. Our only hope was that Zac can fight through the injury and find a way. He couldn't and didn't. Doesn't make it the wrong decision though, just means that we had a roster issue that wasn't addressed when it needed to be addressed earlier in the season.

You THINK you are right. I'm not defending the coaching, but you are letting the players off the hook here. This game was 95% on players stinking and 5% on coaching.

Don’t agree at all that it’s 95/5. Defence did enough to win. Players and coaches. 
 

teams, coaching wasn’t an issue. Lucky was 95% of the problem on teams. 
 

on offence, boy it is an ugly mess. The ol did what they had to do and so did Brady. Wrs, qb, and buck were all horrible. Wrs got worse with the game, so I put more blame on zach. But buck was worse than zach. He didn’t have a game plan that put us in a position to succeed. It was all damn the run (12 minutes with out a run nearly to start) chuck it deep. And he didn’t lift till late. even when he lifted he went back to the same thing in the 2nd half. 
 We didn’t run 1 jet sweep. We didn’t run 1 rpo rolling screen. We didn’t run the signature concepts that zach Demski and lawler excelled on like flag, dagger, j/o, p/o, end zone etc. we didn’t use any counter, trap, wide or outside zone. We saw one rocket concept play, and none of the mesh that was sprinkled in mid season.  We also ran 0 hurry up sets. Pace used to be a hallmark of our offence, we’d get a favourable miss match of personnel then hammer teams with hurry up. We can barely get the huddle broke with 10-12 seconds left. Toronto ran hurry up frequently and frequently broke the huddle as play was whistled in. Early this year we had to run from the huddle to the line and snap it because the play was soo slow coming in. (You can see zachs speed up hand motion to buck on the side line in the huddle) 
A big red flag for our offence is when we have more incompletions than Brady runs. This could be a running problem if Brady is getting 3-4 a pop. But when he’s getting 8-10 with a big run and 5-6 on average it’s a play call problem. When we go big chunks of time between runs and throw a lot of incompletions, we kill drives. It’s the ocs job to adjust to the situation and D. If you’re going 2 and out, get that good gain on first then use easy catch and run completions to get the offence going. Use play action and motion to keep the defence honest. We made no adjustments or attempts to counter Toronto or our weaknesses the whole game. 
 

if buck did his job, when zach got hurt we’d a had a comfortable lead. Zach didn’t put him self back out and keep him self in. That’s coaching. 
 

Blame doesn’t split normally. Really every one with fault in the loss gets 100%. But if you want to split it, buck gets 70% the WRs and zach split the rest. Mos shares blame with buck. 
 

The week of the game is spent doing install which includes the first 10 ish plays on offence being prepared. After 2 or so it’s if this then run that. Our plan was just to beat torontos corners deep and try to blow them out early. We had no back up. We had no pivot plan. 

8 minutes ago, Goalie said:

You have said the same stuff for what 6 years now. Maybe more. Understand you don’t have all the answers. That’s the problem here. Some of you think you are actually in the room when you’re in a ******* chat room. 
 

enjoy the off season.  Time for an extended break. 

Some people have been in those rooms, others have only been in chat rooms. Most people on here have no idea the work that is put in doing prep for a game, or how big a play book with all the install packages is. If you haven’t seen any of that, dunning-Krueger likely has you in its grip. 

8 minutes ago, Goalie said:

You have said the same stuff for what 6 years now. Maybe more. Understand you don’t have all the answers. That’s the problem here. Some of you think you are actually in the room when you’re in a ******* chat room. 
 

enjoy the off season.  Time for an extended break. 

try 3 years....and no...not in the room per say....but I talk to those in room...train with many....and hear the real ****.....take it for what it is worth...or dont..I could give an eff but much like the U,S political bs....don't believe all the fake news you are fed

3 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Don’t agree at all that it’s 95/5. Defence did enough to win. Players and coaches. 
 

teams, coaching wasn’t an issue. Lucky was 95% of the problem on teams. 
 

on offence, boy it is an ugly mess. The ol did what they had to do and so did Brady. Wrs, qb, and buck were all horrible. Wrs got worse with the game, so I put more blame on zach. But buck was worse than zach. He didn’t have a game plan that put us in a position to succeed. It was all damn the run (12 minutes with out a run nearly to start) chuck it deep. And he didn’t lift till late. even when he lifted he went back to the same thing in the 2nd half. 
 We didn’t run 1 jet sweep. We didn’t run 1 rpo rolling screen. We didn’t run the signature concepts that zach Demski and lawler excelled on like flag, dagger, j/o, p/o, end zone etc. we didn’t use any counter, trap, wide or outside zone. We saw one rocket concept play, and none of the mesh that was sprinkled in mid season.  We also ran 0 hurry up sets. Pace used to be a hallmark of our offence, we’d get a favourable miss match of personnel then hammer teams with hurry up. We can barely get the huddle broke with 10-12 seconds left. Toronto ran hurry up frequently and frequently broke the huddle as play was whistled in. Early this year we had to run from the huddle to the line and snap it because the play was soo slow coming in. (You can see zachs speed up hand motion to buck on the side line in the huddle) 
A big red flag for our offence is when we have more incompletions than Brady runs. This could be a running problem if Brady is getting 3-4 a pop. But when he’s getting 8-10 with a big run and 5-6 on average it’s a play call problem. When we go big chunks of time between runs and throw a lot of incompletions, we kill drives. It’s the ocs job to adjust to the situation and D. If you’re going 2 and out, get that good gain on first then use easy catch and run completions to get the offence going. Use play action and motion to keep the defence honest. We made no adjustments or attempts to counter Toronto or our weaknesses the whole game. 
 

if buck did his job, when zach got hurt we’d a had a comfortable lead. Zach didn’t put him self back out and keep him self in. That’s coaching. 
 

Blame doesn’t split normally. Really every one with fault in the loss gets 100%. But if you want to split it, buck gets 70% the WRs and zach split the rest. Mos shares blame with buck. 
 

The week of the game is spent doing install which includes the first 10 ish plays on offence being prepared. After 2 or so it’s if this then run that. Our plan was just to beat torontos corners deep and try to blow them out early. We had no back up. We had no pivot plan. 

same ol same ol...it worked before....lets give er again...and have no plan B....seen it how many times?

4 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Don’t agree at all that it’s 95/5. Defence did enough to win. Players and coaches. 
 

teams, coaching wasn’t an issue. Lucky was 95% of the problem on teams. 
 

on offence, boy it is an ugly mess. The ol did what they had to do and so did Brady. Wrs, qb, and buck were all horrible. Wrs got worse with the game, so I put more blame on zach. But buck was worse than zach. He didn’t have a game plan that put us in a position to succeed. It was all damn the run (12 minutes with out a run nearly to start) chuck it deep. And he didn’t lift till late. even when he lifted he went back to the same thing in the 2nd half. 
 We didn’t run 1 jet sweep. We didn’t run 1 rpo rolling screen. We didn’t run the signature concepts that zach Demski and lawler excelled on like flag, dagger, j/o, p/o, end zone etc. we didn’t use any counter, trap, wide or outside zone. We saw one rocket concept play, and none of the mesh that was sprinkled in mid season.  We also ran 0 hurry up sets. Pace used to be a hallmark of our offence, we’d get a favourable miss match of personnel then hammer teams with hurry up. We can barely get the huddle broke with 10-12 seconds left. Toronto ran hurry up frequently and frequently broke the huddle as play was whistled in. Early this year we had to run from the huddle to the line and snap it because the play was soo slow coming in. (You can see zachs speed up hand motion to buck on the side line in the huddle) 
A big red flag for our offence is when we have more incompletions than Brady runs. This could be a running problem if Brady is getting 3-4 a pop. But when he’s getting 8-10 with a big run and 5-6 on average it’s a play call problem. When we go big chunks of time between runs and throw a lot of incompletions, we kill drives. It’s the ocs job to adjust to the situation and D. If you’re going 2 and out, get that good gain on first then use easy catch and run completions to get the offence going. Use play action and motion to keep the defence honest. We made no adjustments or attempts to counter Toronto or our weaknesses the whole game. 
 

if buck did his job, when zach got hurt we’d a had a comfortable lead. Zach didn’t put him self back out and keep him self in. That’s coaching. 
 

Blame doesn’t split normally. Really every one with fault in the loss gets 100%. But if you want to split it, buck gets 70% the WRs and zach split the rest. Mos shares blame with buck. 
 

The week of the game is spent doing install which includes the first 10 ish plays on offence being prepared. After 2 or so it’s if this then run that. Our plan was just to beat torontos corners deep and try to blow them out early. We had no back up. We had no pivot plan. 

Some people have been in those rooms, others have only been in chat rooms. Most people on here have no idea the work that is put in doing prep for a game, or how big a play book with all the install packages is. If you haven’t seen any of that, dunning-Krueger likely has you in its grip. 

At the professional level, it is the players that must find their own motivation and preparedness. I am not going to defend Buck's game plan, but we could have won with it. We saw dropped balls, bad penalties, and poor execution in general. You will never convince me that execution is on the coaches...because I know better than that.

1 minute ago, Booch said:

try 3 years....and no...not in the room per say....but I talk to those in room...train with many....and hear the real ****.....take it for what it is worth...or dont..I could give an eff but much like the U,S political bs....don't believe all the fake news you are fed

same ol same ol...it worked before....lets give er again...and have no plan B....seen it how many times?

I really think we have a chance to see change on the offence. Buck coming down to the side line, the clear frustration zach had many times this and last year, seeing mos make offensive calls at times, I think we will pull the trigger. I just can’t see them running it back with buck and zach. I’ve been fooled before but the signs are strong. 

5 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

At the professional level, it is the players that must find their own motivation and preparedness. I am not going to defend Buck's game plan, but we could have won with it. We saw dropped balls, bad penalties, and poor execution in general. You will never convince me that execution is on the coaches...because I know better than that.

are u really being serious?....good god....stop while you are semi competent looking

Just now, GCn20 said:

At the professional level, it is the players that must find their own motivation and preparedness. I am not going to defend Buck's game plan, but we could have won with it. We saw dropped balls, bad penalties, and poor execution in general. You will never convince me that execution is on the coaches...because I know better than that.

It’s not about motivation. You can’t motivate pro players these days. The dynamic just isn’t like that any more. 
 Preparation is about film study, finding opportunities, then applying tactics to accomplish your strategy. Players are a part of that film study, on the back end. The coaches find the opportunities and bring in the tactics. Some players, guys like Willy, will do more of that. But it’s just not gonna happen players up. Especially in the cfl, especially with 20 some thing imports. Down south you’d see a guy like von miller back in the day heavily involved in that process, but even in the nfl that’s an outlier case. Position coaches have the film prepped and come in with the plan. It’s their job to have a plan for the start of positional meetings. Players will help shape that more or less. But it’s coaching to get them into position to succeed. 
 

We wouldn’t have won. We were losing the field position battle and couldn’t sustain drives at any point. Even with the lead we were sliding into a loss. 
 

Go look at any high end football coach talk about prep and execution. Watch Seattle’s coaches talk and coach tackling in the legion of boom era. It’s crystal clear. It’s all coaching. If one guy fails to execute you can blame a player once or twice. When multiple group sets fail repeatedly you only have coaching to look at. How many times this year did Wr struggle to execute? many times in the past 2 years has zach struggled to execute? Look at the calibre of wr we have. 3 healthy guys capable of 1k plus. It’s not a coincidence that players repeatedly struggle to execute in multiples at the same positions.  It’s coaching. 

4 minutes ago, Booch said:

are u really being serious?....good god....stop while you are semi competent looking

Honestly in the NIL era you don’t even / can’t motivate kids in D1 much any more. Coaching is all prep, execution, installing tactics and strategy, leading with character. Coaching isn’t what it used to be, people have Ill conceived notions of what it used to be and now that is just way way off from reality. 

3 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

It’s not about motivation. You can’t motivate pro players these days. The dynamic just isn’t like that any more. 
 Preparation is about film study, finding opportunities, then applying tactics to accomplish your strategy. Players are a part of that film study, on the back end. The coaches find the opportunities and bring in the tactics. Some players, guys like Willy, will do more of that. But it’s just not gonna happen players up. Especially in the cfl, especially with 20 some thing imports. Down south you’d see a guy like von miller back in the day heavily involved in that process, but even in the nfl that’s an outlier case. Position coaches have the film prepped and come in with the plan. It’s their job to have a plan for the start of positional meetings. Players will help shape that more or less. But it’s coaching to get them into position to succeed. 
 

We wouldn’t have won. We were losing the field position battle and couldn’t sustain drives at any point. Even with the lead we were sliding into a loss. 
 

Go look at any high end football coach talk about prep and execution. Watch Seattle’s coaches talk and coach tackling in the legion of boom era. It’s crystal clear. It’s all coaching. If one guy fails to execute you can blame a player once or twice. When multiple group sets fail repeatedly you only have coaching to look at. How many times this year did Wr struggle to execute? many times in the past 2 years has zach struggled to execute? Look at the calibre of wr we have. 3 healthy guys capable of 1k plus. It’s not a coincidence that players repeatedly struggle to execute in multiples at the same positions.  It’s coaching. 

Honestly in the NIL era you don’t even / can’t motivate kids in D1 much any more. Coaching is all prep, execution, installing tactics and strategy, leading with character. Coaching isn’t what it used to be, people have Ill conceived notions of what it used to be and now that is just way way off from reality. 

100 percent agree....I dont think a lot of people truly understand whats all involved...and yeah how things have evolved/changed

The misuse/lack of use of Brady is enough to earn Buck a pink slip imo.

1 minute ago, rebusrankin said:

The misuse/lack of use of Brady is enough to earn Buck a pink slip imo.

That and a bunch of other stuff, totally neglecting the development of the backup QB, no preparation, no packages, no playing time, in the end not preparing a backup for Zach looks really dumb.  They need to take a more intelligent approach going forward, cause they're being out thought.

7 minutes ago, Fatty Liver said:

That and a bunch of other stuff, totally neglecting the development of the backup QB, no preparation, no packages, no playing time, in the end not preparing a backup for Zach looks really dumb.  They need to take a more intelligent approach going forward, cause they're being out thought.

Remember when we started an unprepared backup qb back in the day... the cycle continues. 

26 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Remember when we started an unprepared backup qb back in the day... the cycle continues. 

And to be fair having a well prepped back up qb with full roll over of your back ups in the same year is very hard. But it is also critical. 
 I put part of that blame on us insisting that 1 qb spot is just a short yardage guy instead of using that as a full development slot. We never should’ve lost brown and had to start from scratch with a new guy. Elevating your no3 to no2 is how you successfully move a 2 to 1 eventually and Stop ending up in situations where you have completely raw qb2s. 

The endless excuse making for a coaching staff that just pissed away our third grey cup is nauseating. 

We were out coached and our game plan was r worded

Edited November 19, 20241 yr by White Out

12 minutes ago, White Out said:

The endless excuse making for a coaching staff that just pissed away our third grey cup is nauseating. 

We were out coached and our game plan was r worded

Look at Jeff Hamilton’s twitter today if you get a chance, he seems to suggest the sentiment in the locker room is that the coaching staff failed the team.

Specifically mentions that Collaros knew he couldn’t throw, as did the whole team, but they sent him out anyway. That cued to Dinwiddie that he knew they were going to win the game.

Also mentions that Oliveira seems frustrated with his usage in the game.

Didn't look that we were totally prepared in that one.....Hate to say it but the offensive plan looked weak and it especialy went bad when Zack had to leave .... AND our inexperience at back up sure showed....Getting beat by what I'd say is a back-up is extremely annoying and embarassing.....We had a few good defensive plays that put the rush on Arbuckle but not near enough....Tough to get as far as we did and come up short once again in the big game....You only get so many kicks at the can in this league and it looks like we've squandered another one..............................................back to the drawing table for 25' 

32 minutes ago, White Out said:

The endless excuse making for a coaching staff that just pissed away our third grey cup is nauseating. 

We were out coached and our game plan was r worded

 

Here are the number of points given up by the Toronto for every regular season game and both playoff games (not including the Grey Cup).

27, 36, 30, 30, 18, 27, 14, 27, 25, 19, 31, 41, 17, 33, 31, 11, 31, 31, 38, 28

Any guesses on which team they played in the bolded games? Our coaching staff, especially on offense, crapped the bed to a shocking degree.

 

 

23 minutes ago, greenrider55 said:

Look at Jeff Hamilton’s twitter today if you get a chance, he seems to suggest the sentiment in the locker room is that the coaching staff failed the team.

Specifically mentions that Collaros knew he couldn’t throw, as did the whole team, but they sent him out anyway. That cued to Dinwiddie that he knew they were going to win the game.

Also mentions that Oliveira seems frustrated with his usage in the game.

But no, its us fans who are overreacting. The coaches were fine!