I wanted to test the waters and see if anyone's interested in discussing interesting or creative play calls in football. Also a bit of theory crafting or hand wringing about how stuff would work in the CFL and why we don't see it.

One of the big things I see in US football, that hasn't come up here despite massive potential is better-designed QB runs. Teams like the Ravens and Coastal Carolina do exciting stuff with QB runs. The ravens run some rpo, but fake the option a lot and use designed run calls out of the same package. Their O power and QB power are great examples. In a full option offense, this would be 1 place call. The QB would read a defender mostly the end and either keep it up behind the pulling guard or hand it off to the RB to run outside of the guards' block. The advantage they get from mixing in the separate calls is that they change the speed of the play drastically. The fake option can be run much faster and the defense can't re act to the fact the offense isn't reading a player. They have to try and cover all the option players gaps.

Traditionally this type of play used to be run from a 2 back power set. But the ravens use it heavily out of 11 and 21 personnel in the shotgun. Alignment wise it's not that different from what we see up here every week with Woli/Demski/Bailey pinching on the end.

 

 

 

re: OL weights..... I'm not sure if it's still a thing, but the Bombers used to have rules about how much the OL were allowed to weigh. Yoshi has spoken about how it saved his career, because they have to stay at a certain size, and weigh in regularly. Again, not sure if it's STILL the case, but it was....

21 minutes ago, Noeller said:

re: OL weights..... I'm not sure if it's still a thing, but the Bombers used to have rules about how much the OL were allowed to weigh. Yoshi has spoken about how it saved his career, because they have to stay at a certain size, and weigh in regularly. Again, not sure if it's STILL the case, but it was....

Bobby Thompson had a yearly ritual, when camp started - Cal would tell him to lose 20-25 pounds or get cut.

8 hours ago, Mark F said:

strange that I have not seen a single use of two qb on the field.

 

that says something.

HAM did this with Evans/Shiltz on the weekend. It was awful.

After a partial rewatch yesterday (all offensive plays) Dobson is undoubtably significantly lighter than his college days. That said he might’ve been heavier than listed in the first place at Maine. But either way he isn’t a tackle. 

On 2022-07-17 at 5:51 PM, Mark H. said:

If he is not effective inside, then he's not going to be starting at tackle any time soon.  Especially in pass pro, it is a more difficult position to play. 

Of course he can.  He was a tackle in college and in today's CFL, we seem to want to stick Canadians at guard, even when they have the footwork for tackle.  

RG- Dobson

RT- Gray 

 

That is the future.  If Desjarlais comes back great, if not Siddy Sow maybe available when the Bombers pick next year's draft.

 

On 2022-07-17 at 12:21 PM, Tracker said:

A bit off topic here, but I thought that both Gray and Dobson had enough mojo to be very good if not dominant linemen in the CFL. So far, they have not shown any real abilities in that regard.

Probably pretty unfair to expect Dobson to be a dominant lineman in game 6 of his career. Fair point of Gray though, however, he isn't that bad either....he's just not Desjarlais.

On 2022-07-17 at 4:51 PM, Mark H. said:

If he is not effective inside, then he's not going to be starting at tackle any time soon.  Especially in pass pro, it is a more difficult position to play. 

It's a different position to play that requires a different skill set than OG. Gray has the footwork to be an OT, and OT could potentially be a better fit for him than OG. It is not true that an OG cannot be an OT if they are out of position at OG to start with. 

28 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Probably pretty unfair to expect Dobson to be a dominant lineman in game 6 of his career. Fair point of Gray though, however, he isn't that bad either....he's just not Desjarlais.

It's a different position to play that requires a different skill set than OG. Gray has the footwork to be an OT, and OT could potentially be a better fit for him than OG. It is not true that an OG cannot be an OT if they are out of position at OG to start with. 

Yoshi is a prime example of this.  Started his CFL career at guard, with BC & Sask.  He moved to RT during his first season with us and the rest is history. 

52 minutes ago, CrazyCanuck89 said:

Of course he can.  He was a tackle in college and in today's CFL, we seem to want to stick Canadians at guard, even when they have the footwork for tackle.

It's not that he can't, it's just that he's not better than the OTs currently starting.  OL play has been a CFL issue in recent seasons - I doubt shifting Canadians to tackle would make it better. 

1 hour ago, CrazyCanuck89 said:

Of course he can.  He was a tackle in college and in today's CFL, we seem to want to stick Canadians at guard, even when they have the footwork for tackle.  

RG- Dobson

RT- Gray 

 

That is the future.  If Desjarlais comes back great, if not Siddy Sow maybe available when the Bombers pick next year's draft.

 

I can’t see Gray getting much of an opportunity at tackle. Hardrick still has a few years left, Gray’s already 27…

20 minutes ago, Jesse said:

I can’t see Gray getting much of an opportunity at tackle. Hardrick still has a few years left, Gray’s already 27…

Gray replaced Richmond, who started for Bryant in a late season game against the Stamps last year and did well.

22 hours ago, CrazyCanuck89 said:

That is the future.  If Desjarlais comes back great, if not Siddy Sow maybe available when the Bombers pick next year's draft.

 

Is this a real person??

EDIT: I found him: https://emueagles.com/sports/football/roster/sidy-sow/14254

Edited July 20, 20223 yr by bearpants

25 minutes ago, bearpants said:

Is this a real person??

EDIT: I found him: https://emueagles.com/sports/football/roster/sidy-sow/14254

He was ranked 3rd overall in the 2022 draft prospects at one point but he deferred his draft year to 2023. 

Part of the reason this year's draft class was considered to be a weak one is because 6 of the top 20 prospects for the 2022 draft all deferred to next year, including the top ranked player (OL Dontae Bull).  Hopefully that means next years draft is a good one (as far as the CFL draft crapshoot goes).

Here are the players (and their rankings) that deferred:

#1 Dontae Bull, OL

#3 Sidy Sow, OL

#5 Sydney Brown, DB

#8 Tavius Robinson, DL

#10 Jonathan Sutherland, DB

#17 Lwal Uguak, DL 

Edited July 20, 20223 yr by bigg jay

1 hour ago, bigg jay said:

He was ranked 3rd overall in the 2022 draft prospects at one point but he deferred his draft year to 2023. 

Part of the reason this year's draft class was considered to be a weak one is because 6 of the top 20 prospects for the 2022 draft all deferred to next year, including the top ranked player (OL Dontae Bull).  Hopefully that means next years draft is a good one (as far as the CFL draft crapshoot goes).

Here are the players (and their rankings) that deferred:

#1 Dontae Bull, OL

#3 Sidy Sow, OL

#5 Sydney Brown, DB

#8 Tavius Robinson, DL

#10 Jonathan Sutherland, DB

#17 Lwal Uguak, DL 

I like a joke as much as the next person, but this is getting silly.

On 2022-07-09 at 9:44 AM, wbbfan said:

I wanted to test the waters and see if anyone's interested in discussing interesting or creative play calls in football. Also a bit of theory crafting or hand wringing about how stuff would work in the CFL and why we don't see it.

One of the big things I see in US football, that hasn't come up here despite massive potential is better-designed QB runs. Teams like the Ravens and Coastal Carolina do exciting stuff with QB runs. The ravens run some rpo, but fake the option a lot and use designed run calls out of the same package. Their O power and QB power are great examples. In a full option offense, this would be 1 place call. The QB would read a defender mostly the end and either keep it up behind the pulling guard or hand it off to the RB to run outside of the guards' block. The advantage they get from mixing in the separate calls is that they change the speed of the play drastically. The fake option can be run much faster and the defense can't re act to the fact the offense isn't reading a player. They have to try and cover all the option players gaps.

Traditionally this type of play used to be run from a 2 back power set. But the ravens use it heavily out of 11 and 21 personnel in the shotgun. Alignment wise it's not that different from what we see up here every week with Woli/Demski/Bailey pinching on the end.

 

 

 

Great thread here. I’m learning a ton. What exactly is a trap? 

1 hour ago, Zach Schnitzer said:

Great thread here. I’m learning a ton. What exactly is a trap? 

I man who tucks it behind and asks if she looks pretty?

1 hour ago, Zach Schnitzer said:

Great thread here. I’m learning a ton. What exactly is a trap? 

3 hours ago, Zach Schnitzer said:

Great thread here. I’m learning a ton. What exactly is a trap? 

 

Zach, this is an excellent video:

 

 

 

 

 

Does anyone remember the Bomberooskie?

3 hours ago, Tracker said:

Does anyone remember the Bomberooskie?

ME!!

Of course.

On 2022-07-19 at 11:18 AM, bigg jay said:

Yoshi is a prime example of this.  Started his CFL career at guard, with BC & Sask.  He moved to RT during his first season with us and the rest is history. 

Yep, its very uncommon but some guys can only play inside or out side. Usually an out side guy can kick inside and most inside guys can't play out side.  Gray is one who can play both but isn't a road grader at guard but is best long term at rt imo. 

On 2022-07-21 at 1:10 AM, SpeedFlex27 said:

 

Yep, and can set up some nice counter trey old school power runs for big gains. 

 

A bit of what we do / have done for a while with plop and buck. (though buck has certainly put his own spin on things and diversified the offense greatly.)

 

We run a Tight zone scheme (most canadian teams run tight vs true inside zone.) with our OLs first step being down field rather than 3 steps play side. 

 We aren't an RPO team, but the jet sweep wrinkle off the inside zone run is one we all know very well.

Running zone with 5 ol vs a 40 front is a bit more difficult. Which is why blocking from our wrs is soo important. We frequently use woli to chip the end like a TE down south, allowing us to create 2 double teams and send a 2nd ol down field. Opening a 2nd gap, as well as the option to bounce the run off tackle if its open.

 This year we've had difficulty in getting our OL down field, which opens the gaps and allows our rbs to hit holes hard and get to the 2nd level quickly. Teams are using different run fits against us, playing inside leverage on the DL and bringing the sam and defensive half backs to the edge of the box to fill off tackle gaps. 

 Here was Chip kellys answer back in his Oregon days. The video begins at 3:30. 

 

The idea behind outside zone and wide zone run schemes is that you let (or if you cant stop) the defense have inside penetration, with your linemen taking an out side play side leverage. The run goes laterally, crashing the rushers into the blockers. The difference between the outside zone and the wide zone is you look for a cut back lane in the wide zone. The outside zone run normally ends at the side line.  In our sweep packages we block it as a wide zone. 

 The outside and wide zone runs work better in the traditional inside zone vs in the tight zone, as the defense begins to key off the lateral steps. But teams in the cfl don't run high level multi layered zone schemes like in the south. So defensive fronts crash down hard and would be prone for a considerable time to giving up outside leverage. 

 

Another wrinkle we used to be known for and have struggled with this year, (we had a great game vs the elk last year using this concept) is the screen off inside zone run. One of the most creative screen play guys and one of the most effective air raid coaches in football is mike leach. You can really see the difference in execution with how much space he creates for these guys on screen plays. 

In his first stint here, the plop offense heavily rotated around blink and sellers catching screen passes and making gains with them.

 

3 hours ago, wbbfan said:

Another wrinkle we used to be known for and have struggled with this year, (we had a great game vs the elk last year using this concept) is the screen off inside zone run. One of the most creative screen play guys and one of the most effective air raid coaches in football is mike leach. You can really see the difference in execution with how much space he creates for these guys on screen plays. 

In his first stint here, the plop offense heavily rotated around blink and sellers catching screen passes and making gains with them.

 

Thanks so much for these!!!! Fascinating stuff!!!