Portage & Main

[nate007]

12 hours ago, Brandon said:

It goes back to my shout louder to try to prove that your argument is correct.   I'm more of a guy who takes interest in discussions that have a bit of common sense with them.    Common sense would dictate that most people would not find it normal to drive 30 minutes when with synchronized lights and proper traffic flow the same stretch can be done in 5 minutes.  

And the engineering study said that allowing pedestrians would have a relatively minor impact on traffic, but you seem to think you are smarter than the experts.

If you want to bring common sense into the equation, would common sense also say that in a major urban centre, we should ignore efficient modes of transportation like walking and cycling and prioritize private automobiles, which are infinitely more expensive at both the personal (ownership, maintenance, fuel) and public (infrastructure) levels?  

Would common sense say that we should spend money to re-construct the barricades (after they are removed to fix the roof of Winnipeg Square) in order to save rush hour commuters a couple of minutes (if that)? Remember, 85% of the time on weekdays and 100% of the time on weekends there is no traffic congestion at that intersection at all, so why would we close it to pedestrians 100% of the time?

In regards to traffic light synchronization, the city will adjust the lights as best they can, but it isn't like two freeways are intersecting and that intersection is the only hang-up. I've almost never turned left from Portage on to Main without subsequently having to stop at McDermot. Same with turning right and then stopping at Pioneer. Synchronization is easy when you only have to prioritize traffic on one street. Throw in a second major route and everyone trying to use the network at once and it won't be perfect. You might *gasp* have to wait a bit.

[rebusrankin]

Walking and cycling aren't great options for a city that has winter for half the year.

[nate007]

1 hour ago, rebusrankin said:

Walking and cycling aren't great options for a city that has winter for half the year.

Only if you don't make them a priority. There are plenty of cold weather cities where people walk and cycle year-round because the infrastructure is in place for them to do so, and snow clearing is a priority. The city has basically discouraged walking in the past with its snow clearing policy that saw roads get plowed after 3 cm of accumulation, but sidewalks had to wait until 5 cm (I believe this is under review). Also, winter half the year is an exaggeration. Sure, some years the first snowfall is in November and it sticks around until early April, but it's also common to not see any accumulated snow until December and/or for it to mostly be gone by mid-to-late March. 

 

[rebusrankin]

44 minutes ago, nate007 said:

Only if you don't make them a priority. There are plenty of cold weather cities where people walk and cycle year-round because the infrastructure is in place for them to do so, and snow clearing is a priority. The city has basically discouraged walking in the past with its snow clearing policy that saw roads get plowed after 3 cm of accumulation, but sidewalks had to wait until 5 cm (I believe this is under review). Also, winter half the year is an exaggeration. Sure, some years the first snowfall is in November and it sticks around until early April, but it's also common to not see any accumulated snow until December and/or for it to mostly be gone by mid-to-late March. 

 

Name me three cities that are cold weather cities which have significant percentages of their population walking or cycling as their main form of transportation?

[nate007]

1 hour ago, rebusrankin said:

Name me three cities that are cold weather cities which have significant percentages of their population walking or cycling as their main form of transportation?

Minneapolis has made huge advances in cycling over the past decade. Too lazy to look up the actual stats, but they've built a lot of bike lanes and corridors. https://gizmodo.com/why-minneapolis-is-one-of-americas-best-winter-biking-c-1573185188

Don't forget pretty much any major Scandanavian city...

Also, just because someone doesn't want to bike in January, it doesn't mean we shouldn't have the infrastructure in place for them to do so in July. Ever visit a beach, go camping, or play a game of baseball in Manitoba? Betcha it required some sort of public funding...

[Brandon]

Minneapolis is far warmer in winter then us.    

[JCon]

4 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Minneapolis is far warmer in winter then us.    

Max average 5-6 degrees warmer. 

[rebusrankin]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

Minneapolis is far warmer in winter then us.    

They get less snow too.

[Brandon]

My buddy in Minneapolis says the Winters are much warmer  less of a windchill.   Still nothing fantastic compared to places down South but much less painful.   

A funny note though,  most professionals and mid to upper class live in the Burbs.   Downtown Minneapolis is kind of a crap hole  and it's not  like that place is a prime example of a city with a dense population downtown....

[Eternal optimist]

I think they should open it. Politically it is a tough pill for the public to swallow, but all the evidence and studies indicate it is a good idea for the growth of the city. That said, I think what will realistically happen, is Bowman will get reelected, largely due to the ineptitude of his competition. The referendum will fail, and the intersection will stay closed for the foreseeable future.

On 2018-10-20 at 1:07 PM, rebusrankin said:

Name me three cities that are cold weather cities which have significant percentages of their population walking or cycling as their main form of transportation?

I think you're missing the point here - most cities don't have walking/cycling as a major form of transportation for the simple fact that human beings are, in general, lazy.

[blue_gold_84]

17 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

They get less snow too.

That is incorrect.

https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Minnesota/Places/minneapolis-snowfall-totals-snow-accumulation-averages.php

https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Canada/Manitoba/Places/winnipeg-snowfall-totals-snow-accumulation-averages.php

[FrostyWinnipeg]

1 hour ago, blue_gold_84 said:

That is incorrect.

https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Minnesota/Places/minneapolis-snowfall-totals-snow-accumulation-averages.php

https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Canada/Manitoba/Places/winnipeg-snowfall-totals-snow-accumulation-averages.php

Seems like everytime u cross the border the snow on the ground ends.

[rebusrankin]

1 hour ago, blue_gold_84 said:

That is incorrect.

https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Minnesota/Places/minneapolis-snowfall-totals-snow-accumulation-averages.php

https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Canada/Manitoba/Places/winnipeg-snowfall-totals-snow-accumulation-averages.php

I stand corrected.

[Brandon]

Warmer climates tend to get more snow since the temperature hovers around the 0 mark.    I wouldn't doubt that they would get more snow.  

 

[nate007]

14 hours ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

Seems like everytime u cross the border the snow on the ground ends.

That's just on the highway/interstate. 

[The Unknown Poster]

On 2018-10-19 at 4:06 PM, Brandon said:

Lol keep trying Nate that was a pitiful retort. 

TUP -  Totally agree...  unfortunately as a blue collar town with where most young educated professionals who move away for greener pastures and the ones who do stay usually stay because of families and cheaper housing...  I don't see a large community of people who would want to live downtown.   Perhaps they could attract a lot of immigrants to stay downtown but I'm not sure if that would really bring up the area.   WIth our crap climate also it doesn't help.    I think it's almost a no-win battle.  With the massive amount of condos being build around the city I don't see seniors wanting to move either.   

 

 

I think what is happening now proves the opposite.  There are more people working downtown which is great, its hustling and bustling monday-friday during work hours.  Its bustling when there are major evens at the arena.  The key is to make it like that all the time.  TNS and 360 main are going to put a lot of people downtown 24/7.  Two new buildings on Assiniboine as well.    Glasshouse is fairly new.  Skycity wont happen, but a lot of people put down deposits who will still be looking to move to the area.  And these aren't arent low rent, low cost buildings either.  Rumors of the lot at P&M having interest as well.

The Forks rail side, again, its going to attract a lot of people living in the community.

[JCon]

More people are moving downtown and, besides the new communities in the south end, it's the quickest growing neighbourhood in Winnipeg (or was in 2016). 

No one thing will make downtown appealing. It's a combination of new investment into housing and retail, along with entertainment, that will drive growth. 

[The Unknown Poster]

I've turned the corner on cycling.  I dont cycle.  If I had children, I'd tell them to use the sidewalk.  But in South Winnipeg where I live, we've seen a lot of AT paths installed over the past few years and they are well used.

[The Unknown Poster]

7 minutes ago, JCon said:

More people are moving downtown and, besides the new communities in the south end, it's the quickest growing neighbourhood in Winnipeg (or was in 2016). 

No one thing will make downtown appealing. It's a combination of new investment into housing and retail, along with entertainment, that will drive growth. 

The one thing that has changed a lot is investment by business.  In the 90's we saw a ghost town.  We can debate government subsidies and tax breaks etc but businesses just werent doing this before and they are doing it now because they see it as a good investment.  

[rebusrankin]

Downtown needs a groccery store and a few more like ammenities.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

1 hour ago, rebusrankin said:

Downtown needs a groccery store and a few more like ammenities.

Is GT still around?

[Brandon]

Gt is quite popular with the locals. 

[Atomic]

Right on the Team Open site, they contradict themselves.  There is a graphic stating "The average number of seconds added to an afternoon rush hour commute is 54 after pedestrians are reintroduced."

Right next to the graphic, they state that the delay can be 0-54 seconds.

So it 54 the average or the upper bound?

Such disorganization.  Team Open has no idea what they are talking about.

That is why I voted Closed.

[The Unknown Poster]

4 minutes ago, Atomic said:

Right on the Team Open site, they contradict themselves.  There is a graphic stating "The average number of seconds added to an afternoon rush hour commute is 54 after pedestrians are reintroduced."

Right next to the graphic, they state that the delay can be 0-54 seconds.

So it 54 the average or the upper bound?

Such disorganization.  Team Open has no idea what they are talking about.

That is why I voted Closed.

I think they're pretty well organized, and professional.   Especially for a munch of volunteers.  

I suspect those items you quoted mean average.  ie. 54 second average, average of 0-54 (which makes sense if you hit all green lights).  Minor wording issue, especially compared to the out and out lies and panic being spread by the vote no people (not all, of course, but some).

But the actions of either side didnt compel me to vote either way.  The question was not "vote in favour of the people who support either side".  I voted based on what I think is best.  Thats why I voted Open.

[Brandon]

52 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I think they're pretty well organized, and professional.   Especially for a munch of volunteers.  

I suspect those items you quoted mean average.  ie. 54 second average, average of 0-54 (which makes sense if you hit all green lights).  Minor wording issue, especially compared to the out and out lies and panic being spread by the vote no people (not all, of course, but some).

But the actions of either side didnt compel me to vote either way.  The question was not "vote in favour of the people who support either side".  I voted based on what I think is best.  Thats why I voted Open.

I strongly believe that Downtown Biz and the companies involved at the intersection had a lot to do with setting up Team Open.   Almost 100% positive that they were involved.   

54 seconds in light traffic...  no numbers or real estimates for rush hour naturally.   

What they should of done (if possible) was to set up the traffic lights at P & M to run at what it would be if the intersection was open for pedestrians.   Take a two week sample and with that they can get real numbers on how traffic would be effected.   I'm assuming that the intersection wouldn't be running the push button to activate walk sign kind of deal and that it would run on an automatic schedule.    Then both sides couldn't make up numbers and with the real data they could analyze.