Lets see if we can keep this thread a little more civil.

I found this interview very interesting.  A lot of soft balls thrown at Trump, he explained his back pedalling on his more extreme issues as a lot of his claims as opening bids for negotiation purposes.  Which .. whatever .. I still think that those are insincere claims he used to get elected.

He does now come across way more presidential then he did prior to the election.  A lot of his noise, yelling, and rhetoric has been scaled back.

Do respect this one though:

Quote

 

Lesley Stahl: Are you gonna take the salary, the president’s salary?

Donald Trump: Well, I’ve never commented on this, but the answer is no. I think I have to by law take $1, so I’ll take $1 a year. But it’s a -- I don’t even know what it is.

Donald Trump: Do you know what the salary is?

Lesley Stahl: $400,000 you’re giving up.

Donald Trump: No, I’m not gonna take the salary. I’m not taking it.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-donald-trump-family-melania-ivanka-lesley-stahl/

15 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

In my response I clearly made the point that Obama was NOT placating the worst of his leftist base unless you acknowledge that the MAJORITY of Americans fall into a far left base.  Did you know nearly half of Republican voters supported Obama's efforts with Cuba?  Are they the "worst of the leftist base" too?

Reasonable to describe one who champions a communist police state and all the crimes and injustices that come with it are the "worst" of your party .

32 minutes ago, Zontar said:

It has everything to do with kneeling. As a tactic to change minds and sway opinion anti patriotism has always been a loser in the US.

Anti-patriotism? Peaceful protest is now anti-patriotic?

 

Imagine if these "unpatriotic" players ever dumped their goods and wares into a body of water to protest unfair taxation? The Alt-Right would shoot to kill. 

27 minutes ago, JCon said:

Anti-patriotism? Peaceful protest is now anti-patriotic?

Again, that is the perception , whether accurate or not, of what the kneelers are doing. And why its not changing minds and never will because its never worked before.

2 minutes ago, Zontar said:

Again, that is the perception , whether accurate or not, of what the kneelers are doing. And why its not changing minds and never will because its never worked before.

Peaceful protest worked during the civil rights movement. 

1 hour ago, Zontar said:

Stunt would be to confirm a full list of attendees. Mysteriously cancel at last minute. Trump stands on empty stage. Kneelers, liberals, etc rejoice as Trump is rebuked.

 

1 hour ago, Zontar said:

It has everything to do with kneeling. As a tactic to change minds and sway opinion anti patriotism has always been a loser in the US.

Change what minds?  Change them how?  To bring awareness to the racial divisiveness that exists?  To silently protest the amount of black people being killed?  How is any of that anti-patriotic?  It isn't.  It wasnt.  The only connection to anti-patriotism is Trump twisting reality to fit his narrative which is designed to play to the racists of his base.

1 hour ago, Zontar said:

Reasonable to describe one who champions a communist police state and all the crimes and injustices that come with it are the "worst" of your party .

You keep ignoring facts to make a point about something you clearly arent sure about.  The VAST majority of Americans supported Obama's efforts with Cuba.  Nearly half of republicans did so as well.  What does that have to do with the worst of a party?

And what does any of that have to do with Donald Trump?

And answer me this, if you're so comfortable in your position, if Obama's efforts to open diplomatic relations with Cuba (which Trump has kept to a degree, by the way), why are you not condemning Trump's efforts to build relations with North Korea?  Do you condemn that?  Do you feel he's pandering to the worst of his party?

Just now, Zontar said:

Again, that is the perception , whether accurate or not, of what the kneelers are doing. And why its not changing minds and never will because its never worked before.

It really isn't.  Trump saying something is so doesnt make it so when the reality is very different.  Again, if you believe kneeling players are anti=patriotic, what change are they trying to make in people's minds?  Do you really think they are hoping people will turn against the US?  The NFL players are trying to take over America?  lol  Its absurd.

3 minutes ago, JCon said:

Peaceful protest worked during the civil rights movement. 

Oh geeze...they were so ungrateful.

4 minutes ago, JCon said:

Peaceful protest worked during the civil rights movement. 

Yes, but it was never perceived explicitly as anti American by the majority, in a larger sense quite the opposite. Which is why it was a success.

It's only seen as anti american cause it's black people. Lot of racist people still in the world. Let's be honest, kneeling during an anthem is a completely legit for of protest. It's not unpatriotic, it's using a forum that is available to try and get people thinking about an issue that matters to you. The US is so completely ****** right now because the political climate is such that there is no nuance. It's either with us or against us and god help anyone who is against us.....

6 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

 

Change what minds?  Change them how?  To bring awareness to the racial divisiveness that exists?  To silently protest the amount of black people being killed?  How is any of that anti-patriotic?  It isn't.  It wasnt.  The only connection to anti-patriotism is Trump twisting reality to fit his narrative which is designed to play to the racists of his base.

 

And answer me this, if you're so comfortable in your position, if Obama's efforts to open diplomatic relations with Cuba (which Trump has kept to a degree, by the way), why are you not condemning Trump's efforts to build relations with North Korea?  Do you condemn that?  Do you feel he's pandering to the worst of his party?

 

Distict difference between celebrating the regime's system, which Obamas far left base did and does, and reopening diplomatic ties for practical purposes especially when there is money to be made.

Well, tell you this much... 

 

This debate the last few pages seems to be based on BS Lies and someone being a racist A hole.

Edited June 6, 20187 yr by Goalie

14 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

It's only seen as anti american cause it's black people. 

Not true. "Your patriotism is wrong"  is a tactic used by the Left for other political, social situations,  especially during war. Resulting in the same perception.

Edited June 6, 20187 yr by Zontar

8 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

It's only seen as anti american cause it's black people. Lot of racist people still in the world. Let's be honest, kneeling during an anthem is a completely legit for of protest. It's not unpatriotic, it's using a forum that is available to try and get people thinking about an issue that matters to you. The US is so completely ****** right now because the political climate is such that there is no nuance. It's either with us or against us and god help anyone who is against us.....

Yes. Trump has made it ok for racists to be racists. 

Its actually quite disturbing. It also boggles my mind when im guessing a Canadian like one of these Trump supporters on here actually believes the BS. 

1 minute ago, Zontar said:

Not true. "Your patriotism is wrong"  is a tactic used by the Left for other political, social situations,  especially during war.

Nah. Its Racism for sure. Are you Canadian? If so, please leave Canada. Cuz im seriously getting dumber reading your complete BS. 

Edited June 6, 20187 yr by Goalie

6 minutes ago, Zontar said:

Distict difference between celebrating the regime's system, which Obamas far left base did and does, and reopening diplomatic ties for practical purposes especially when there is money to be made.

Seriously? 

Ill type this part slowly.  The majority of American's supported Obama's efforts with Cuba.  40% of Republicans did.  How is that any indication of "worst aspects of the left"  motivating it?

I realize you're throwing darts at the wall.  But this one simply won't stick.

5 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Well, tell you this much... 

 

This debate the last few pages seems to be based on BS Lies and someone being a racist a hole.

EDIT to soften my reply. lol

I AGREE!

Edited June 6, 20187 yr by The Unknown Poster

2 minutes ago, Zontar said:

Not true. "Your patriotism is wrong"  is a tactic used by the Left for other political, social situations,  especially during war.

The only person talking patriotism is Trump and you.  The players arent at all.  Has nothing to do with patriotism.  Unless you think black people arent American.

2 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I wanted to say the same thing but didnt want to get in trouble.  I 100% agree with you.  Im open to ANY opinion but NOT the ones of a clear racist.  Hopefully it stops.

Ill take the heat. Its fine. I just cant stand the racists and ill call them out. I dont know how anyone could see it differently here. 

 

Bottom line... You support trump, you support lies BS and racism. Not you TUP, just in general

Edited June 6, 20187 yr by Goalie

6 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Seriously? 

Ill type this part slowly.  The majority of American's supported Obama's efforts with Cuba.  40% of Republicans did.  How is that any indication of "worst aspects of the left"  motivating it?

I realize you're throwing darts at the wall.  But this one simply won't stick.

Like I said that isnt the same thing as championing communism, socialism, repression of opponents.

Just now, Goalie said:

Ill take the heat. Its fine. I just cant stand the racists and ill come them out. I dont know how anyone could see it differently here. 

 

Bottom line... You support trump, you support lies BS and racism. Not you TUP, just in general

Ive seen discussion about his politics and its like, yeah okay whatever.  But what this thread has shown the last day or so is an unbridled Trump supporter exposed.

This idea of black players being ungrateful and anti-patriotic.  Good God.  Its not even an opinion.  Its a lie. 

1 minute ago, Zontar said:

Like I said that isnt the same thing as championing communism, socialism, repression of opponents.

Show me where Obama championed Communism.

2 minutes ago, Zontar said:

Like I said that isnt the same thing as championing communism, socialism, repression of opponents.

Maybe just stop pretending you arent a huge racist. Make things easier. We all see through your B.S.

Edited June 6, 20187 yr by Goalie

7 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

The only person talking patriotism is Trump and you.  The players arent at all.  Has nothing to do with patriotism.  Unless you think black people arent American.

Kneeling for the national anthem is a classic leftist tactic using symbols of patriotism. Whether or not that is the motivation isnt the point. That is the perception. The saying "perception is reality" exists for a reason.

7 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Show me where Obama championed Communism.

He didnt condemn Cubas abuses. According to your own  standards thats tacit support.

8 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Maybe just stop pretending you arent a huge racist. Make things easier. We all see through your B.S.

 

11 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Ive seen discussion about his politics and its like, yeah okay whatever.  But what this thread has shown the last day or so is an unbridled Trump supporter exposed.

This idea of black players being ungrateful and anti-patriotic.  Good God.  Its not even an opinion.  Its a lie. 

Gross distortion of what I said. Anyone using similar tactics to make a political point has resulted in the same perception of ungratefullness. 

12 minutes ago, Zontar said:

He didnt condemn Cubas abuses. According to your own  standards thats tacit support.

Ummmm if my statement went over you're head, I can explain it.  If you want to break down inter-nation politics to the simplicity of racism, its sort of a lost cause.  But you still haven't condemned Roseanne's racist remark or Trump's lack of condemnation.  Why is that?

By the way, Obama was actually quite clear about his motivations for improving relations with Cuba which was all about trying to bring increased freedom to the repressed people.  He said that. 

But again, Im not the one playing whataboutism, you are.  So if you feel so strongly about Obama's Cuba relations, why dont you feel negatively about Trump's NK efforts?  Can you explain that?