US Politics

[The Unknown Poster]

12 minutes ago, Zontar said:

He didnt condemn Cubas abuses. According to your own  standards thats tacit support.

Ummmm if my statement went over you're head, I can explain it.  If you want to break down inter-nation politics to the simplicity of racism, its sort of a lost cause.  But you still haven't condemned Roseanne's racist remark or Trump's lack of condemnation.  Why is that?

By the way, Obama was actually quite clear about his motivations for improving relations with Cuba which was all about trying to bring increased freedom to the repressed people.  He said that. 

But again, Im not the one playing whataboutism, you are.  So if you feel so strongly about Obama's Cuba relations, why dont you feel negatively about Trump's NK efforts?  Can you explain that? 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

2 hours ago, Zontar said:

I can only assume Jenkins is equally frustrated with the kneelers and their apologists around the league for their tactics over shadowing and robbing attention of the outtreach work he described.

 

Seriously though, I assume you are trolling hard in this thread- I understand it, it could be really fun.

If not trolling... then shoot- you need to seriously brush up on your reading comprehension. Here give it another shot:

 

Edited June 6, 2018 by wanna-b-fanboy

[The Unknown Poster]

11 minutes ago, Zontar said:

 

Gross distortion of what I said. Anyone using similar tactics to make a political point has resulted in the same perception of ungratefullness. 

Why do you keep talking like kneeling players are anti-patriotic or ungrateful when there is not a single solitary thing to prove that?  Its absolutely untrue.

Why do you ignore the truth?

Quote

NFL players and owners across the US knelt or stood with arms their arms linked during the national anthem to highlight racial injustice and police brutality in America, on Sunday, September 24.

Quote

Kaepernick had said: “I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of colour.

Quote

Quote

 

A match between Baltimore Ravens and Jacksonville Jaguars held in London saw two dozen players take a knee.

Others including Jaguars owner Shad Khan - who donated £1million to Trump's presidential campaign - stood and locked arms.

Both teams later stood as God Save the Queen was played.

Mr Khan said: "I met with our team captains prior to the game to express my support for them, all NFL players and the league following the divisive and contentious remarks made by President Trump, and was honoured to be arm in arm with them, their team-mates and our coaches during our anthem."

 

 

If you want to disagree with protests, thats fine. But stop embracing the lie of why its happening.  Trump has said these players have the "privilege" of playing.  He's called them sons of *******.  He's said they should be fired.  He's suggested they should be kicked out of the country.

He called marching racist nazis who killed someone "very fine people".

You still want to debate the racial harmony of Donald Trump?

[Zontar]

5 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Ummmm if my statement went over you're head, I can explain it.  If you want to break down inter-nation politics to the simplicity of racism, its sort of a lost cause.  But you still haven't condemned Roseanne's racist remark or Trump's lack of condemnation.  Why is that?

By the way, Obama was actually quite clear about his motivations for improving relations with Cuba which was all about trying to bring increased freedom to the repressed people.  He said that. 

But again, Im not the one playing whataboutism, you are.  So if you feel so strongly about Obama's Cuba relations, why dont you feel negatively about Trump's NK efforts?  Can you explain that? 

Cuba was used as an example because you said no other President pandered to the worst of his political base like Trump did. Obama did with Cuba. And I did say what Barr said was wrong and she deserved to be fired.

[Zontar]

If I recall the white demonstraors in Charlotte werent self declared racists, (like Antifa doesnt declare itself marxist.) The overt racists at that that thing werent invited and were tiny in number.

The fine people remark was directed at the people fighting Antifa, which is valid, and not the self described white supremacists.

[The Unknown Poster]

1 minute ago, Zontar said:

Cuba was used as an example because you said no other President pandered to the worst of his political base like Trump did. Obama did with Cuba. And I did say what Barr said was wrong and she deserved to be fired.

First of all, pandering to your base on issues of politics is one thing.  All politicians serve their special interest groups.  If a President panders to unions, I can disagree with that politically.  That is NOT the same as pandering to RACISTS.  That's NOT the same as inflaming racial divisiveness to rally your base.  That should be a red line for all people.  Why isn't it for you.

Secondly...PLEASE read this this time.  The VAST majority of Americans supported better relations with Cuba.  40% of Republicans did.  Obama was NOT pandering to his base with Cuba.  By definition, it was not pandering to his base because so many people supported it.   Im sure there are examples of Obama pandering to his base.  Cuba was not one of the,  And I bet whatever examples you can find will not involve RACISM.

And finally, you have condemned Roseanne.  Excellent.  To you disagree with Trump's lack of condemnation and why do you think he is so reluctant to ever weigh in on issues of racism towards black people (against racism, not in support of it)?

[The Unknown Poster]

1 minute ago, Zontar said:

If I recall the white demonstraors in Charlotte werent self declared racists, (like Antifa doesnt declare itself marxist.) The overt racists at that that thing werent invited and were tiny in number.

The fine people remark was directed at the people fighting Antifa, which is valid, and not the self described white supremacists.

What.  The.  ****. 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

4 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

What.  The.  ****. 

Seriously dude- he's trolling you HARD. Expend as little energy as possible and just meme him. 

Edited June 6, 2018 by wanna-b-fanboy

[Zontar]

8 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

 

Secondly...PLEASE read this this time.  The VAST majority of Americans supported better relations with Cuba.  40% of Republicans did.  Obama was NOT pandering to his base with Cuba.  By definition, it was not pandering to his base because so many people supported it.   Im sure there are examples of Obama pandering to his base.  Cuba was not one of the,  And I bet whatever examples you can find will not involve RACISM.

Money minded Republican lawmakers agreeing with Cuba was a happy coincidence. Obamas Cuba policy was a sop to his far left base.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

1 minute ago, Zontar said:

Money minded Republican lawmakers agreeing with Cuba was a happy coincidence. Obamas Cuba policy was a sop to his far left base.

[The Unknown Poster]

15 minutes ago, Zontar said:

If I recall the white demonstraors in Charlotte werent self declared racists, (like Antifa doesnt declare itself marxist.) The overt racists at that that thing werent invited and were tiny in number.

The fine people remark was directed at the people fighting Antifa, which is valid, and not the self described white supremacists.

Trump defended his lack of immediate condemnation of the neonazis by saying he needed all the facts.  For most people, knowing a group are neo-nazi's is enough fact.  But so be it.  When he had all the facts, he put the "left", the people protesting the nazi's on the same moral plane as the nazi's and white nationalists.  He defended the actions of the white nationalists who were there to protest the removal of a statue of Robert Lee by condemning the actions of the people there to protest racists.

Quote

Organizer Nathan Damigo said the rally was intended to unify the white nationalist movement in the United States.^[10] Protesters included white supremacists, white nationalists, neo-Confederates, Klansmen, neo-Nazis, and various militias. Some of the marchers chanted racist and antisemitic slogans, carried semi-automatic rifles, swastikas, Confederate battle flags, and anti-Muslim and antisemitic banners

Yup, sounds like a perfectly reasonable protest by a bunch of very fine people.  Charlotsville was a racist rally.  It was not something we see and say well, they have a point.  We see it, we denounce it, we protest it, we try to make it stop.  It was racist.  They held the rally to protest the removal of a statue of a Confederate, which Trump opposed...Mr Patriotism opposed the removal of a Confederate statue lol

Edited June 6, 2018 by The Unknown Poster

[The Unknown Poster]

4 minutes ago, Zontar said:

Money minded Republican lawmakers agreeing with Cuba was a happy coincidence. Obamas Cuba policy was a sop to his far left base.

So 70% of Americans, including 40% of Republican voters (not lawmakers) just happened to all fit into Obama's base?  Thats a hell of a base.  With a base like that, he could still be President! lol

[Zontar]

The demonstrators af the offical event werent self described racists etc. The aim of the thing , with a city permit, was cultural pride and statue preservation in the wake of the removal of statues. If I recall correctly there were overt racists there but not attached to the former. 

Trumps remarks were directed at the former. To say Trump was praising racists is fantasy

[Zontar]

9 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

So 70% of Americans, including 40% of Republican voters (not lawmakers) just happened to all fit into Obama's base?  Thats a hell of a base.  With a base like that, he could still be President! lol

Again, supporting the policy isnt the same thing as championing the regime, which is what the far left does, and why Obama did it.

[The Unknown Poster]

2 minutes ago, Zontar said:

The demonstrators af the offical event werent self described racists etc. The aim of the thing , with a city permit, was cultural pride and statue preservation in the wake of the removal of statues. If I recall correctly there were overt racists there but not attached to the former. 

Trumps remarks were directed at the former. To say Trump was praising racists is fantasy

Holy smokes.  Let's unpack this.  Are you suggesting that a person is only racist if they overtly identify themselves as such?  Are you suggesting that Trump praising a racist or not condemning racism is okay if the people involved are not overtly self-identified as racists?

Secondly, the Unite the Right rally in Charlotesville was organized by Nathan Damigo with the stated goal of united White Nationalist movement.

Quote

Damigo was the founder of Identity Evropa, The group is identified as a white supremacist organization by the Anti-Defamation League^[13] and is designated by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a hate group.  Leaders and members of Identity Evropa, such as former leader Eli Mosley, have praised Nazi Germany and have openly pushed for what they say is the "Nazification of America".

Identity Evropa is a neo-Nazi and white supremacist group;^[11][9][27] the organization and its leader Damigo espouse white supremacist^[28] and white separatist views.^[22][29] The group endorses racial segregation.^[27] It "bills itself as a 'generation of awakened Europeans' who 'oppose those who would defame our history and rich cultural heritage'".^[9] Damigo describes it as "an identitarian organization"^[1] and says that the group's aim is to "act as a fifth column, over time shifting the edifice of our political establishment" in favor of what he describes as "pro-white" interests.^[30] Identity Evropa's spokesman and director of administration, Reinhard Wolff, states that Identity Evropa is engaged in a "culture war" in an effort to create a "90 percent white" America.

Still believe the protest was just a friendly gathering of like-minded history buffs who have an affinity for Confederate leaders?

[The Unknown Poster]

7 minutes ago, Zontar said:

Again, supporting the policy isnt the same thing as championing the regime, which is what the far left does, and why Obama did it.

Show me proof of that.

[17to85]

No racist is a self described racist, most of them actually don't think they are racist at all, just "telling it like it is".

But if it says and does racist **** then it's probably a racist. 

[The Unknown Poster]

Anyway, for a little something totally unrelated to the discussion, I just wanted to celebrate the racial harmony of Donald Trump.

 

- Trump’s real-estate company tried to avoid renting apartments to African-Americans in the 1970s and gave preferential treatment to whites, according to the federal government.

- Trump treated black employees at his casinos differently from whites, according to multiple sources. A former hotel executive said Trump criticized a black accountant: “Black guys counting my money! I hate it. … I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks.”

- In 1989, Trump took out ads in New York newspapers urging the death penalty for five black and Latino teenagers accused of raping a white woman in Central Park; he argued they were guilty as late as October 2016, more than 10 years after DNA evidence had exonerated them.

- He began his 2016 presidential campaign with a speech disparaging Mexican immigrants as criminals and “rapists.”

- In December 2015, Trump called for a “a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States,” including refusing to readmit Muslim-American citizens who were outside of the country at the time.

- He spent years suggesting that the nation’s first black president was born not in the United States but in Kenya, a lie that Trump still has not acknowledged as such.

- He is quick to highlight crimes committed by dark-skinned people, sometimes exaggerating or lying about them (such as a claim about growing crime from “radical Islamic terror” in Britain). He is very slow to decry hate crimes committed by whites against dark-skinned people (such as the killing of an Indian man in Kansas last year).

- He frequently criticizes prominent African-Americans for being unpatriotic, ungrateful and disrespectful.

- He called Puerto Ricans who criticized his administration’s response to Hurricane Maria “politically motivated ingrates.”

- He has retweeted white nationalists without apology.

- After David Duke, the former leader of the Ku Klux Klan, endorsed him, Trump was reluctant to disavow Duke even when asked directly on television.

- Trump endorsed and campaigned for Roy Moore, the Alabama Senate candidate who spoke positively about slavery and who called for an African-American Muslim member of Congress not to be seated because of his religion.

- Trump pardoned – and fulsomely praises – Joe Arpaio, the Arizona sheriff sanctioned for racially profiling Latinos and for keeping immigrants in brutal prison conditions.

- In a 1993 radio interview, he suggested that Native Americans in Connecticut were faking their ancestry. “I think I might have more Indian blood than a lot of the so-called Indians that are trying to open up the reservations.”

- In a November 2017 meeting with Navajo veterans of World War II, Trump mocked Senator Elizabeth Warren as “Pocahontas.”

- In a White House meeting with a Korean-American intelligence analyst briefing him on Pakistan, Trump wondered aloud why she was not working on North Korea policy.

- Trump once referred to a Hispanic Miss Universe as “Miss Housekeeping.”

- At a June 2016 campaign rally, Trump pointed to one attendee and said: “Oh, look at my African-American over here. Look at him.”

[johnzo]

2 hours ago, Zontar said:

As a tactic to change minds and sway opinion anti patriotism has always been a loser in the US.

Yes, this is why the US military is still largely conscripted.

[Zontar]

18 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Show me proof of that.

Deliberately staging a photo op in front of Che Guevara mural kinda tipped their hand.

[Zontar]

Again the official demonstration, which the city signed off on, and wouldnt have if they had declared racist ntent, but if they truly declared themselves racist then I stand corrected.

The way I recall it some racists tried to co opt it. Antifa  attacked, chaos etc.

[Zontar]

19 minutes ago, johnzo said:

Yes, this is why the US military is still largely conscripted.

Its an all volunteer force. Has been for decades.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

6 minutes ago, Zontar said:

Again the official demonstration, which the city signed off on, and wouldnt have if they had declared racist ntent, but if they truly declared themselves racist then I stand corrected.

The way I recall it some racists tried to co opt it. Antifa  attacked, chaos etc.

I will never look at tiki torches the same way...

 

[The Unknown Poster]

16 minutes ago, Zontar said:

Again the official demonstration, which the city signed off on, and wouldnt have if they had declared racist ntent, but if they truly declared themselves racist then I stand corrected.

The way I recall it some racists tried to co opt it. Antifa  attacked, chaos etc.

The way you recall it?  Were you there?

I've already posted how obviously racist the organizers were, but to help you understand why it went forward, the city tried to prevent it but the ACLU defended the protesters right to free expression and a judge allowed it.  You're bending yourself into amusing shapes to try and defend racists.  Do you share their views?

[The Unknown Poster]

US and Canadian news! I knew 1812 would come back to haunt us