USABomberfan

I thought you said enough of the blame game?

I forget exactly when it happened but at the start of the year I thought the OL was doing a pretty decent job, but there was a change in teams strategies against the Bombers, they started to just blitz all the time and it always got enough pressure on the qb to disrupt him. We didn't really do anything to slow it down. Teams just kept coming and coming and coming with pressure. Once you get into that area your offense is sunk. You need to be able to slow down a blitz and the Bombers didn't make the adjustment to do that. 

I certainly agree that calling out other posters, calling them names, and labels, etc is one of the things I hate the most.  Why?  Because there is a large contingent of people / lurkers who see and feel that if they post their opinion and are going to get personally attacked for it, they won’t do it. 
And when that happens we get the same people posting the same things and things start to become stale.  New people, points of view, opinions, and personalities are very much welcomed and wanted.
 
Now having said that, to respond to your post, it is human nature to “group up” with the people who think the same way as you, and “not like” people who post opposing opinions.  Why?  Because we all like to feel validated in the way that we feel and think, and we get that validation when people post or agree and the opposite when they don’t.
 
You are correct, that we should have a greater appreciation for opposing viewpoints, and keep the discussion on topic, not insults on each other.
Personally, I would probably label myself as falling more into the homer category, though  try to keep an open and objective point of view.   Why am I like that?  Because I am an eternal optimistic fan.  If I didn’t feel that way, if I felt the way some of the “negatron” and “gloomers” appear to feel, I would cease investing my time and money in this board and following the team.
 
Not saying everyone has to be that way to be a fan of the team, just the reason I am the way I am.  Heck, I actually “liked” one of TBURGESS’ posts today, maybe I’m going to the other side…

Gotta be careful about what we read into other people's posts.  So far I haven't seen anyone disagreeing that Willy did the wrong thing, everyone's posts I've seen at least for the most part are acknowledging Willy did not get the ball to available reads.  But that being said, I think you gotta give Willy props here for acknowledging he didn't.  He knows he should've been smarter and I expect if the coaching staff gives him another shot to get it right he will.
 
1.  He didn't throw his teammates under the bus in this one, he took responsibility which is something you like to see out of a guy who does that.
 
2.  Things can change from game to game.  10 sacks is unacceptable, but Willy knows he can avoid those next time, so before we get too Marve crazy, let's not boot him out the door just yet.

Let's remember, the thread title says both Bellefeuille and Willy, it's 50/50 on the both of them for this one.  As to why Willy holds onto the ball longer, QBs, and I've seen them do this plenty, usually like to hit the deeper bigger plays over the shorter and intermediary ones.  I really think Willy was trying to find deep options there instead of going with shorter options or safety valves when their should've been a clock in his head telling him that that was his best option.  Sure the line was getting pushed around a bit, but the protection was there long enough to have something to check down to.  As to no players being open, Suitor was trying to show no WRs open on that one play as Crunch said, when I coulda swore I saw the BC defenders backed at least 5 yards off of those receivers.  And like I said, Willy all the sudden started getting that ball out quick once we went down 11, I don't think the playcalling was all that much different for him to all the sudden realize, oops, wait, maybe I should get the ball out quicker.
 
But again, nobody is holding Bellefeuille blameless for this either.  You don't take Cotton out of the equation when he plays as good as he did, and you certainly don't take away his pass blocking either.  Thought the playcalling to open the game was pretty good, but going away from it was doodoo on his part, so yes, he does blame.  But our QB is not without fault in this either.
 
I'm not going to try and suggest any radical solutions or anything crazy to fix this stuff, but our personnel and situational management is definitely lacking right now.

The only thing I really pin on the coaches for this year was that they at one point relegated Cotton to the PR.  I don't know that he would've won us all those games we lost, but he kept getting switched in and switched out when he should've been playing more would've given this team a lot more of a boost.  Really no reason to have had him sitting all those weeks.

Dumping O'Shea would be dumb.. He is a rookie folks, expect mistakes in his first bloody year.. Ditto Willy, he was expected to stumble and stumble he did but it's frightening how far ahead of our last few seasons QBs were. Hell, doesn't he lead the league in passing? Behind our shitty line with our shitty receivers? That's a solid base to start with..
We definitely are lacking a defensive line that can get at the QB and that can stop the run... Our LBs need a little tweak (and a prototypical MLB) and our secondary is pretty tight.. Oline woes continue but that has to be addressed via draft or big splash FAs.. QB can be considered "set" even if brohm lands a new gig in the offseason.. Cotton looks like a legit RB but will keep searching I'm sure and receivers are a mess.. Baby steps made this season but considering how bad we have been the last 2-3 seasons, progress is made and it's not made on shaky ground...

I still have a lot of time for Mike O'Shea. He is the least of our problems here. There are a lot of places that could use a talent upgrade. Notably defensive line needs to be a LOT better. I'd say they need to find one more receiver who can hit 1000 yards as well. Then there's the OL which needs to figure itself out. 

Agreed MOS has to take firmer hold and set the direction for this team to go. That will come with more experience.
 
The hiring of the OC for MOS, was almost a pre-dertermined fait accompli because, well, he was here, he has an offensive basis already, and he's good for young QBs…to a point.
That point has passed.
 
The DC was more of an EA hiring. E=experienced A=available.
Pretty good for a 1st year hiring but if it's one thing we've learned, it's that Etch doesn't adapt well.
The players we had did pretty good for what they were asked to do. A DL or 2, MLB? and a new mind set will go a long way next year.
 
I like the fact MOS and Walters are continually trying to upgrade this team. It's needed.
 
A lot will be told on how they handle the OC and DC positions.
Only after they solve that issue can they identify and target new players, so get on with it boys.
 
MOS stays..we need continuity, and it's way to early to start picking dates to rid ourselves of him.

I don't know why everyone should be so surprised. Willy is a work in progess, and with a better QB coach should improve. This is one of the scouting reports on him
 
"Willy's strengths are his calmness and intelligence. He understands the position very well and does a great job of reading the defense. Willy has outstanding mechanics and footwork which allows him to be very accurate with most throws he makes.
  Willy can be a little stiff at times. He can sometimes stand and hold the ball too long which will cause him to be sacked or give the defense time to react to his eyes. Willy can be indecisive as well and in the NFL that can lead to big turnovers.   Summary   Willy comes from a humble conference and team that is always trying to prove itself and I think that bodes well for his development and coachability. His ability to stand tall and poise in the pocket helps him to deliver strikes to his receivers. Willy is a relaxed QB and I have not seen him get too rattled he stays calm under duress and uses his feet to buy him time. His consistency at recognize the rush needs to be improved on, he is very good at seeing it but at times he holds the ball too long and gets lead feet in the pocket. I believe Willy has tremendous potential and could be a legitimate QB in the NFL."   He needs better protection, and needs to learn how to look off receivers when he gets more time. He also needs to have less of a gun slinger mentality.

Gotta be careful about what we read into other people's posts.  So far I haven't seen anyone disagreeing that Willy did the wrong thing, everyone's posts I've seen at least for the most part are acknowledging Willy did not get the ball to available reads.  But that being said, I think you gotta give Willy props here for acknowledging he didn't.  He knows he should've been smarter and I expect if the coaching staff gives him another shot to get it right he will.
 
1.  He didn't throw his teammates under the bus in this one, he took responsibility which is something you like to see out of a guy who does that.
 
2.  Things can change from game to game.  10 sacks is unacceptable, but Willy knows he can avoid those next time, so before we get too Marve crazy, let's not boot him out the door just yet.

Those sacks are the fault of both Drew Willy and Marcel Bellefeuille, each taking 50/50 responsibility for them.  Part of that is on Willy because he had plenty of time to find checkdown options on plays where his WRs were downfield and he got too greedy trying to look for big plays.  There's no way though that he couldn't have not had other options where some 3rd or 4th reads were not open.  The other is Bellefeuille's fault because not sticking with Cotton who was running right through that BC defense that 1st half was a dumb idea.  When your running game is tearing it up, you stick with it until the opposition shows they can stop it, they did not in this game.  No reason to go away from it whatsoever.  Normally I'd be on the O-line for costing us games and giving up plays, but this one is on Willy and Bellefeuille for not sticking with what was working.

Well I dunno which specific charity the CFL is associated with but one of those breast cancer foundations is actually worse than cancer. Something stupid like only 10% of their funds raised go to fighting cancer, the rest goes into the hands of the people running the charity. That's a real bullshit way to run a charitable organization. 

Why do you need to watch Grigsby more? We saw him plenty here. No one is saying the OL is blameless, that's why what happened with Cotton in Edmonton is less concerning, the OL got worked there.... but they don't get worked every play and Grigsby we have seen leave a lot of yards on the field. Look if a guy is met by 2 or 3 DL in the backfield then yes we can put the blame on the OL, but if he stops running in the backfield and goes sideways and then gets caught that's on the RB, if he has a hole but gets tripped up by an arm that's on the RB. If he runs into the backside is blockers past the LOS that's on the RB. Grigsby did a lot of those things and that's why it doesn't matter what he does in Hamilton. Cotton seems to be a much more elusive back who is willing to just run into traffic and maybe find a way to squeak out a few extra yards. 

Game vs Calgary is now on there for those who missed it or who want to rewatch the extended action of Brian Brohm and Robert Marve
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtZy0K3WGnQ

For the record, and I've gotten into it with other fans myself, and I don't think losses for what they are should be sugar-coated, but people really need to be careful about calling coach supporters cool-aid drinkers or cheerleaders.  I think what some believe is that if we're gonna build a team regardless of who's coaching, we gotta take our lumps in order to do that, doesn't matter who the coach is because that will happen.  I also think when things go wrong, there are possible other solutions to fix them besides just a "fire everyone" approach, and this is what I think some of us are looking for.

Your anger, as always, is overblown and greatly misplaced.

Can't agree enough. During the off season I'm STARVING for every scrap of CFL news I can get. Once the season arrives, I don't miss a game. The season is too short and the off season is too long... you just don't wait all winter to pass on game action.
 
EDIT: I may PVR it, but I'll definitely watch it

No disrespect to Brohm, I love having a backup QB who can come in and play, but at this point I think as a HC you completely throw out any notion of a QB controversy.  Willy has been suffering enough from taking those hits in the pocket and to bring this up would severely damage his confidence.
 
Sorry, but if I'm a HC, I'm saying no to this.  Now, in the spring training camp and as next season came along, if I saw Brohm's game pick up tremendously, maybe I'd consider a competition next year, but absolutely not right now.

I'd like to see Volny get a serious look. Maybe even feature him as the starter in one of the remaining games.

My guess is he's gonna once again attempt to go back to the NFL.  Didn't land a starter job last time, but I would bet he's gonna try out for somebody's practice squad who's currently short on RBs.
 
I was no Grigsby fan because of his constant hesitation when going through the holes.  I had a bad feeling when I was hearing about his tweets, and at an already bad day, regardless of what he meant out of them, that was kind of like pouring salt on the already open wounds the team had.
 
Normally I'd quickly call out fans for being quick to jump on a RB for expressing his feelings, because in some ways I say if you're gonna do it, then yeah do it, but right now this team has no time or place for people with inflated egos, and nor should they.  In some ways I do feel sympathetic towards Grigs, but here's the problem: just because you get benched or demoted at one time, doesn't mean you're not gonna get your chance to earn it back again, and I know he certainly would've.  What he should've realized is, okay I got benched because obviously I'm just not cutting it like the coaches expected me too, now what I gotta do is just get to work, get ready for the next time I'm carrying the ball, and run with anger and prove to them on this field why I should be the number 1 guy.  MOS never said Cotton was gonna be the number 1 RB indefinitely with no shot for Grigs again, he just felt he needed a change for now for Cotton to get his chance back and rightfully so.
 
But now you guys see why I've been vocal about getting Carl Volny more carries in this offense?  Here's a guy who comes to practice every day and puts in all the work and more that you could ask of him and never complains that he doesn't get carries, and I mean NEVER.  He also busts his butt off every time on special teams and never quits.  You want a guy who's got a professional and humble attitude on this team at RB?  Give this guy his chance and let him carry that rock.  He runs with authority and drags defenders with him.  Mike O'Shea, please let this humble working player get his carries.

My guess is he's gonna once again attempt to go back to the NFL.  Didn't land a starter job last time, but I would bet he's gonna try out for somebody's practice squad who's currently short on RBs.
 
I was no Grigsby fan because of his constant hesitation when going through the holes.  I had a bad feeling when I was hearing about his tweets, and at an already bad day, regardless of what he meant out of them, that was kind of like pouring salt on the already open wounds the team had.
 
Normally I'd quickly call out fans for being quick to jump on a RB for expressing his feelings, because in some ways I say if you're gonna do it, then yeah do it, but right now this team has no time or place for people with inflated egos, and nor should they.  In some ways I do feel sympathetic towards Grigs, but here's the problem: just because you get benched or demoted at one time, doesn't mean you're not gonna get your chance to earn it back again, and I know he certainly would've.  What he should've realized is, okay I got benched because obviously I'm just not cutting it like the coaches expected me too, now what I gotta do is just get to work, get ready for the next time I'm carrying the ball, and run with anger and prove to them on this field why I should be the number 1 guy.  MOS never said Cotton was gonna be the number 1 RB indefinitely with no shot for Grigs again, he just felt he needed a change for now for Cotton to get his chance back and rightfully so.
 
But now you guys see why I've been vocal about getting Carl Volny more carries in this offense?  Here's a guy who comes to practice every day and puts in all the work and more that you could ask of him and never complains that he doesn't get carries, and I mean NEVER.  He also busts his butt off every time on special teams and never quits.  You want a guy who's got a professional and humble attitude on this team at RB?  Give this guy his chance and let him carry that rock.  He runs with authority and drags defenders with him.  Mike O'Shea, please let this humble working player get his carries.

My guess is he's gonna once again attempt to go back to the NFL.  Didn't land a starter job last time, but I would bet he's gonna try out for somebody's practice squad who's currently short on RBs.
 
I was no Grigsby fan because of his constant hesitation when going through the holes.  I had a bad feeling when I was hearing about his tweets, and at an already bad day, regardless of what he meant out of them, that was kind of like pouring salt on the already open wounds the team had.
 
Normally I'd quickly call out fans for being quick to jump on a RB for expressing his feelings, because in some ways I say if you're gonna do it, then yeah do it, but right now this team has no time or place for people with inflated egos, and nor should they.  In some ways I do feel sympathetic towards Grigs, but here's the problem: just because you get benched or demoted at one time, doesn't mean you're not gonna get your chance to earn it back again, and I know he certainly would've.  What he should've realized is, okay I got benched because obviously I'm just not cutting it like the coaches expected me too, now what I gotta do is just get to work, get ready for the next time I'm carrying the ball, and run with anger and prove to them on this field why I should be the number 1 guy.  MOS never said Cotton was gonna be the number 1 RB indefinitely with no shot for Grigs again, he just felt he needed a change for now for Cotton to get his chance back and rightfully so.
 
But now you guys see why I've been vocal about getting Carl Volny more carries in this offense?  Here's a guy who comes to practice every day and puts in all the work and more that you could ask of him and never complains that he doesn't get carries, and I mean NEVER.  He also busts his butt off every time on special teams and never quits.  You want a guy who's got a professional and humble attitude on this team at RB?  Give this guy his chance and let him carry that rock.  He runs with authority and drags defenders with him.  Mike O'Shea, please let this humble working player get his carries.

My guess is he's gonna once again attempt to go back to the NFL.  Didn't land a starter job last time, but I would bet he's gonna try out for somebody's practice squad who's currently short on RBs.
 
I was no Grigsby fan because of his constant hesitation when going through the holes.  I had a bad feeling when I was hearing about his tweets, and at an already bad day, regardless of what he meant out of them, that was kind of like pouring salt on the already open wounds the team had.
 
Normally I'd quickly call out fans for being quick to jump on a RB for expressing his feelings, because in some ways I say if you're gonna do it, then yeah do it, but right now this team has no time or place for people with inflated egos, and nor should they.  In some ways I do feel sympathetic towards Grigs, but here's the problem: just because you get benched or demoted at one time, doesn't mean you're not gonna get your chance to earn it back again, and I know he certainly would've.  What he should've realized is, okay I got benched because obviously I'm just not cutting it like the coaches expected me too, now what I gotta do is just get to work, get ready for the next time I'm carrying the ball, and run with anger and prove to them on this field why I should be the number 1 guy.  MOS never said Cotton was gonna be the number 1 RB indefinitely with no shot for Grigs again, he just felt he needed a change for now for Cotton to get his chance back and rightfully so.
 
But now you guys see why I've been vocal about getting Carl Volny more carries in this offense?  Here's a guy who comes to practice every day and puts in all the work and more that you could ask of him and never complains that he doesn't get carries, and I mean NEVER.  He also busts his butt off every time on special teams and never quits.  You want a guy who's got a professional and humble attitude on this team at RB?  Give this guy his chance and let him carry that rock.  He runs with authority and drags defenders with him.  Mike O'Shea, please let this humble working player get his carries.

My guess is he's gonna once again attempt to go back to the NFL.  Didn't land a starter job last time, but I would bet he's gonna try out for somebody's practice squad who's currently short on RBs.
 
I was no Grigsby fan because of his constant hesitation when going through the holes.  I had a bad feeling when I was hearing about his tweets, and at an already bad day, regardless of what he meant out of them, that was kind of like pouring salt on the already open wounds the team had.
 
Normally I'd quickly call out fans for being quick to jump on a RB for expressing his feelings, because in some ways I say if you're gonna do it, then yeah do it, but right now this team has no time or place for people with inflated egos, and nor should they.  In some ways I do feel sympathetic towards Grigs, but here's the problem: just because you get benched or demoted at one time, doesn't mean you're not gonna get your chance to earn it back again, and I know he certainly would've.  What he should've realized is, okay I got benched because obviously I'm just not cutting it like the coaches expected me too, now what I gotta do is just get to work, get ready for the next time I'm carrying the ball, and run with anger and prove to them on this field why I should be the number 1 guy.  MOS never said Cotton was gonna be the number 1 RB indefinitely with no shot for Grigs again, he just felt he needed a change for now for Cotton to get his chance back and rightfully so.
 
But now you guys see why I've been vocal about getting Carl Volny more carries in this offense?  Here's a guy who comes to practice every day and puts in all the work and more that you could ask of him and never complains that he doesn't get carries, and I mean NEVER.  He also busts his butt off every time on special teams and never quits.  You want a guy who's got a professional and humble attitude on this team at RB?  Give this guy his chance and let him carry that rock.  He runs with authority and drags defenders with him.  Mike O'Shea, please let this humble working player get his carries.