TBURGESS

None of those stats have anything to do with giving the ball away or lack of offensive production or having the defense on the field for 1:35 more than Calgary. They have to do with the other teams running the ball down our throats and our defense having no way to stop them. We were 2nd best against the pass partly because other teams didn't have to pass to beat us. No one's suggesting that there was only one factor that caused our losses. I'm just saying that the defense's play is part of the reason we lost and lost and lost.... There, you just admitted that's stats are baseless. And that's what I was pointing out. You can hang onto the ball longer by running, but you also can win the game quicker by passing. Stats are like laces that you can loop around and tie your shoes, but they're not necessary with loafers, where at least you can get some pennies. (huh) Stats only tell part of the story. That doesn't mean they are baseless. If you can beat a team by running, then that's what you do and that's what lots of teams did to us. Folks want it to be about fixing 1 thing and the other things don't really matter, but that's not the way football works. Stopping the run matters as does stopping the pass and stopping the big returns and being able to run and being able to pass and keeping your QB healthy and kicking FG's and everything else that goes into a football game. I'm referring to facts are baseless, (bolded) when one only uses them to tell a part of the story…like you did. You only quoted facts on the run..not on anything else. Now you are admitting that they are only part of the story. Then you go on to list everything else that is part of winning and losing football games, just like we've been pointing out, all along.(bolded) Stats are facts. Baseless means without foundation in fact. Therefore stats, by definition, aren't baseless. I never said stats tell the full story. I showed the stats that point out our defense is sub-standard, below average, and quite frankly, not good enough. You pointed out that they were above average against the pass, but that doesn't make the overall defense good enough. Can't rush the passer, stop the run or get themselves off the field = below average overall.

You sure did and I picked BC. Worst pick ever for me.

Pencer, Etienne...yep, we've been drafting the best available players for a long time around these parts.... Sadly, those are the guys Mack thought were the best available players.

You love to characterize folks who disagree with you as anti-Etch haters. I'm anti-losing and the reality is that Etch is a big part of the Bombers losing so often this year. In your fantasy world, Etch will suddenly become a better DC who suddenly produces an above average defense when he hasn't done it in the past. That's not likely to ever happen.

None of those stats have anything to do with giving the ball away or lack of offensive production or having the defense on the field for 1:35 more than Calgary. They have to do with the other teams running the ball down our throats and our defense having no way to stop them. We were 2nd best against the pass partly because other teams didn't have to pass to beat us. No one's suggesting that there was only one factor that caused our losses. I'm just saying that the defense's play is part of the reason we lost and lost and lost.... There, you just admitted that's stats are baseless. And that's what I was pointing out. You can hang onto the ball longer by running, but you also can win the game quicker by passing. Stats are like laces that you can loop around and tie your shoes, but they're not necessary with loafers, where at least you can get some pennies. (huh) Stats only tell part of the story. That doesn't mean they are baseless. If you can beat a team by running, then that's what you do and that's what lots of teams did to us. Folks want it to be about fixing 1 thing and the other things don't really matter, but that's not the way football works. Stopping the run matters as does stopping the pass and stopping the big returns and being able to run and being able to pass and keeping your QB healthy and kicking FG's and everything else that goes into a football game.

Lies. They stopped teams plenty only to have the offense send them right back on the field. No use in trying to help you see the truth. You've already made your mind up and nothing's going to change it.

None of those stats have anything to do with giving the ball away or lack of offensive production or having the defense on the field for 1:35 more than Calgary. They have to do with the other teams running the ball down our throats and our defense having no way to stop them. We were 2nd best against the pass partly because other teams didn't have to pass to beat us. No one's suggesting that there was only one factor that caused our losses. I'm just saying that the defense's play is part of the reason we lost and lost and lost....

Obviously, you haven't been following the Bombers drafts. We used 1 high draft pick on Pencer (Stupid pick) and 1 on Goosen (TBD) in the last 6 years. and a bunch taken in the later rounds like every team does, what's your damn point? The damn point is we haven't been drafting by position. We've been drafting the best available players.

The offense wasn't any good, but the defense couldn't get itself off the field either and that was a big problem.

Obviously, you haven't been following the Bombers drafts. We used 1 high draft pick on Pencer (Stupid pick) and 1 on Goosen (TBD) in the last 6 years.

Our Defense was last or second last in: Rushing yards against Avg Rushing yards against per game # of rushes against Gain / rush Plays from scrimmage Net offense against Net yards / game Ints QB sacks None of those are hallmarks of a average defense, let alone a good one. We were 3rd last in Time Of Possession on offence. We had to defend for 38 seconds a game more than Hamilton and 1:35 more than Calgary. Neither of those teams use TOP as an excuse for their defenses.

I'm not talking about every draft and I don't think there's only one way to draft every year. I'm talking about this year. If we had 3 or 4 good starting O lineman, then drafting the best player regardless of position would make some sense. We don't so it doesn't. There are very few drafts that don't have some good O lineman in them. We get to pick #2, so we should get the 2nd best O lineman again this year. Assuming we choose correctly, and we haven't done that in the past, we get an upgrade to one of, if not THE worst, group we have.

Your post makes no sense. How do you get 7 good NI starters if you don't take the best player available (with consideration to availability around the NFL factored in)? Having a bunch of OL who might be ready to play in 2-3 years won't help us. Gotta draft and develop those mid-round guys into being players. How many 1st round picks on Calgary's OL or Saskatchewan's? We desperately need players who can play now regardless of position. Draft 1 OL with the first overall and pencil him in as a 2nd year starter. Draft 1 OL later in the draft and HOPE he will eventually turn into something down the line. Use the mid-rounds to bolster the rest of the NI roster. Gotta use your top picks to upgrade where you need to and for the Bombers, that's O lineman. That's how you end up with no top end Canadians. It's the Taman plan, look at the Riders roster, look at what he did here. They are SOL when Getzlaf and Foley are done. Might as well trade picks for good players if you aren't going to take the best player in the draft. It's actually how you end up with a top O line, which in turn makes life easier for your QB, RB, and receivers.

Your post makes no sense. How do you get 7 good NI starters if you don't take the best player available (with consideration to availability around the NFL factored in)? Having a bunch of OL who might be ready to play in 2-3 years won't help us. Gotta draft and develop those mid-round guys into being players. How many 1st round picks on Calgary's OL or Saskatchewan's? We desperately need players who can play now regardless of position. Draft 1 OL with the first overall and pencil him in as a 2nd year starter. Draft 1 OL later in the draft and HOPE he will eventually turn into something down the line. Use the mid-rounds to bolster the rest of the NI roster. Gotta use your top picks to upgrade where you need to and for the Bombers, that's O lineman.

I prefer experienced coaches, but I'd take Garcia for OC over MB any day of the week.

Horrible day for the Lions, but I don't think there will be major changes in BC in the off season. Benevides will keep his job. Not sure Khari keeps his. Washington put together a great defense for most of the season, so he keeps his job. I can see a bunch of players getting changed out though.

If/when we get to the point where we have 7 good NI starters, then we can afford to take the best player. Until then put me on the best O lineman, not best player side. Folks around here want the Bombers to pick Demski, who they consider the best player. They don't seem to understand that good teams a built from the lines out. We've had a bunch of GM's who followed the best player, in their minds, strategy and it's only worked once with Muamba. Meanwhile, we've had a poor O line for years.

Hate the 15 yard little push penalty after the play and it should have been offensive PI on the TD IMO. I guess the refs hate BC like they hate Wpg. Not the reason BC's losing though. BC's playing badly, led by Glenn's embarrassing bad play. (Note: I'm not one of the Glenn haters)

I agree with getting rid of Etch and I believe O'Shea will have a hard, if not impossible, time pulling the trigger.

Good move. Stoudemire's the best returner we've had in a long time.

This weekend, we've got 3 teams starting their backup QB's and one who's starting a QB with less than half a year's starting experience. Low scoring affairs IMHO. BC over Montreal - Glenn's the best backup QB in the league. Been there. Done that. Montreal's wins have mostly come against the eastern teams. Edmonton over Regina - Reilly out will make a huge difference so this one will likely be close, but Edmonton's a better team overall and if they can stop the run, they'll be off to Calgary next week.

Guarantee Walters wouldn't do this though. You're probably right, but I wasn't talking about what the Bombers would do. I was talking about what I would do.

I'd fire O'Shea to get Trestman in a second and I wouldn't worry about the optics. In fact, I think the optics would be that we just got better and that would help in bringing in coaches and players.

IMHO: No Ray = No Way to Win, even against Ottawa. Get ready for our #2 draft pick to become the #3 pick in each round.

Milanovich isn't quitting his CFL HC job to become anyone's CFL OC. Ottawa would offer him their HC job (We should too, but probably wouldn't). US Universities might offer him an HC job that pays more than he'd ever get in the CFL.