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Have you been watching O'Shea's win/loss record? You guys are so fixated on the bottom 4 positions of our depth chart it has become almost comical. We have not lost a game due to roster management since this notion reared it's head a couple years ago. Roster management is such a minor part of what win/loses games at the pro level unless star players are out with injury. Every game comes down to about a dozen key plays that tell the tale of the game. Big time players make big time plays and they are not found at the bottom of the depth chart. I'm not excusing Osh's roster management, it could be better, but this nonsense that Jake Thomas taking 8 snaps a game more than he should is costing us games is ridiculous. If you want to talk about roster decisions of consequence we can look to stuff like the decision to keep Collaros over Brown, or to let Lawler walk. These are impactful decisions to our ability to win and worthy of some debate. However, then we are no longer talking about O'Shea are we. I think you guys got the crosshairs on the wrong guy. Even dud FA signings this year that can't beat out some mediocre talent ahead of them lies with the front office, not the coach.

Have you been watching O'Shea's roster management?

Who says we are bringing in talent that is better? Guys have to earn their way into the lineup. I'm not saying that is the case 100% of the time, but it certainly is the overwhelming majority of the time. Seen a lot of grousing that J.Jones , as one example, should be in the lineup vs T. Jones....what I haven't seen is a single shred of evidence to back up the claim that he would be better. Sometimes, guys are on the sidelines despite a guy ahead of them having weaknesses+ because they aren't as good. Name one guy that the scouts brought in that is better than the incumbent. Please provide proof of that.

No point in bringing in talent if they are not allowed to challenge and replace the existing players unless there is a catastrophic injury. That has to be frustrating for the scouting staff.

QFT times 1000

Absolutely, I am not sure the merry go round on roster discussion is even worth the time anymore because pretty much everyone who has an opinion on it is about as well informed on each side of the equation as humanly possible over the past 2 years and 10000 posts related to it. However, I doubt the discussion dies anytime soon because Jake Thomas is still a Bomber.

My 2 cents Yes, it does feel as if on this board we go down the roster usage hole over and over, and it seems to creep into every thread. Perhaps it is overdone/discussed, and I could see some getting put off or annoyed with it, and yes we have posters with two very opposite opinions of it (one-5 GC's we know what we are doing-two-we are not putting our best athletes on the field and optimizing our roster) To a degree both these opinions have legs to stand on and valid points, I think this is why it comes up over and over. It is also amplified as some of our top posters have strong opinions on this matter. In conclusion yes, this goes round and round, but let's all step back and look at the 10,000ft view and be thankful that we have not just one but two active Bomber forums and that we have enough people and passion to continue to have these discussions.

I mentioned in the Elks game that those guys were playing hard and very intense despite losing. Our D front 7 on D just doesn't seem to have any oomph outside of Kramdi. The visuals of Thomas being tossed around like a child really doesn't help give the impression of a team that is pushing anyone around.

the condition where 5 guys shouldn't be playing...but will be like the 2023 cup...

Yep. Remember that one as well.

And it's still relatively early in the season... what kind of condition will those guys be in down the stretch and into the playoffs?

This. An O'Shea team used to have the opposition beaten down by the 4th quarter. Remember the audio of the 2019 Grey Cup? They don't play that way anymore, and it's not hard to understand why they don't, some literally can't.

There was one on Pembina. I think its a Credit Union now

couldnt have said it better....kinda hits nail on the head and now that the original core is aged...declining...some case not good enough...a couple never really were good enough, yet still play them like CFL Hall of Famers in their prime...well you get what you get Used to be you had an outlier random stink bombe of a game....seemed unprepared/unmotivated....but plenty of dominance games ....now you have random dominant game, which almost seems like the outlier game now....but more and more games of hot garbage, totally outcoached and looking unprepared....guys going through motions....and the coach with his ho hum attitude about it...reluctance to do anything diffeent or about it....and has that look on the sidelines that does not show any concern or anger about what he seeing...almost a confused befuddled....stunned look, and it's just status quo and look back at the past and assume it will show up again....and it won't more times than it will Add in the fact we dont even give guys a chance doesnt help...Would JJones be better?....can Shay and Smith take reps in rotation to develop....sure be nice to see...Would Griffin be the better SAM....That right there is a definate yes.....sitting down Jake for a game or 2 and use the imports strictly with Lawson in the middle....would we be better....more productive?....pretty sure yup....would that hekp WJ and Vaughters...especially with a legit guy to rotate in....only a fool would think no.....so who is our fool? and the biggest thing if these guys on our roster and PR are not god enough or have any ability or upside to get on the roster and make a difference...then why are they still here?

The Bombers sometimes will remind me of the place I work. This one guy has showed up 3 times in May, 4 Times in June and so far zero in July. Yet one day he'll come in and it will be like nothing has happened, as usual. Some managment groups only make changes when it is 100% necessary or the change is made for them. Otherwise they'll just ignore the problem.

I think they still would... if they weren't gassed before they got to the wall. It's like I said before, too much complacency from the coach. I suspect a losing streak would alleviate that but as long as the team wins more than it loses it'll still be there.

The head ref can overrule his assistants in soccer - methinks football should be the same.

I don’t think there’s a lack of a plan. The plan just doesn’t make a ton of sense. We just completely re-configured our front office this offseason and added more bodies. What was the net effect? Our pro scouting highlighted guys who can’t crack our roster (J. Jones, Mitchell, etc) and our crop of recruits got us what … one new body? And the shine has worn off of him since he seems to be getting worse, not better? Great. What’s the draft plan? Okay, basically just draft guys to play special teams? Shay, Smith? Can’t give them D reps. Why would we? What’s the roster plan? OL - washed. DL - gassed. LB - not versatile enough to fit our DC’s preference. WR - thin. Okay so what do we do to adjust? What’s the coach’s plan? Doesn’t really seem to have one these days. Doesn’t affect much in-game. Our halftime adjustments seem invisible. The leash on underperformers is infinite. Won’t challenge anything. Won’t use the roster rules. And the overarching point everyone used to make - players would run through a wall for him? Do we see that drive out there anymore? I don’t.

I've heard him say that but I don't know if I buy it. Biggie's injury forced their hand at linebacker - even if they kept him, he's still out so a replacement was needed either way. There's always turn over in the secondary (Alford, Rose, Houston for example) so moving on from BA & Ford just seems like regular occurrence rather than a plan. And like I said, they already had internal replacements so it's pretty easy to do when you have 20 other guys to choose from. If there's a plan, why does it include leaving the DL so thin that we can barely spell off the few guys we do roster on gameday?

He was very open about how you can't do them all at once... Have to do a bit at a time. Now, having said that, nobody would argue that Jake should have been part of the purge by now.

But these moves safe for Ford are in line with Walter’s plans to let a few move on per season rather than needing to replace them all at once. There’s only a few left at this point

dline has needed help since we lost Kongbo...Stove....Nevis...Sayles...even Hansen and we made it worse by low balling Jeffcoat into retirement....injury issues?...I call b.s on that as we continued to sign/play BA...Biggie...Grant (until we effed that up) Hallett...and others who were always walking wounded and missed chunks...Only reason why the other Hallett is gone is because he physically cant do it anymore We of recent have some more than capable guys....but they play second fiddle to Osh's fav's....Even the strange decision to not re-up Fox and Garbutt was flawed and short sited as both playing well in Ham and would definately be helping here....likely tho they wanted to try free agency and actually get real playtime elsewhere...others have left here for that reason...a couple I also know alomost did but got talked into staying by some vets here Guys who know they can play...wanna play....you can be the best team guy in the world but when you have to consistently take a back seat to an inferior coach's preference....you can only stomach it for so long

Ford was going to his brother's team...and out priced himself any way...so out of our hands there Biggie...was hurt...and not gonna be ready....if not hurt....he was gonna be here...if Osh continues to roster Thomas..kolo..Scmeck....Wilson...Scmeck....you know damn well Biggie would have been here BA...is maybe the only one we chose to move on from...did we low ball him tho like we did Jeffcoat?...quite possible...who knows 100 percent that was taken out of his hands....he wont be playing next week either...or week after I bet...9 months out...for an aged player...at his position?...nahhhh....and if he does try that soon....gonna really tarnish the last memories fans will have of him

They didn't move on from Ford, he walked away. Biggie, I have no doubt, would still be here if he hadn't shredded his knee. He's still not healthy enough to play so that should have been a no brainer. I'll give you BA but let's not pretend they had some big wholesale change planned. Those 3 are also at positions where we have depth so we could roll with guys we already had - the D Line has needed help for a while but we haven't seen a whole lot of movement. It's also not just about moving on from older players, it's about how they are being used. Thomas has absolutely no business being a starter taking tons of reps but here we are. If he was being used sparingly as a backup, you'd see way less posts about him. As much as I love WJ, it's plain to see that he should not be on the field as much as he is.