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his play with the Argo's and in TC is more than enough evidence... as well as his all around athleticism and ability to play the run....Blitz/get after the QB (7 sacks in his full season) and cover....again evidenced by his play in T.O also is a good indicator....no real holes in his game...3 yrs younger too so can be even better.....T.Jones is a hold over...a guy who Osh "likes" and has holes in his game...he isnt a true everydown guy, and if he was Edm woulda kept him but they dumped him for a younger more athletic guys...who had/has upside...and ultimately was the CFL rookie of the yr...coaches saw talent...gave him his shot....nouf said And we carry guys like KOLO...Schmeck...Korn...Thomas...lesser extent we feel we have to play Kramdi as a starter....keep bringing back Hallett...Gauthier.....ST only guys......if tht best we have and nobody on 1 game or 6 game or PR is better.....then why they even here....You cant earn playtime in practice in this era....just cant...so how do you profess they earn it?....they need to play....not run around on scout...or 8 man skelly....not gonna happen exactly....another poster gets it....T.Jones was cemented in as the defacto starter as soon as he was re-upped to a 2 yr deal....Same with Kolo...Same with Thomas...didnt matter if we brought in a Lawrence Taylor, Mike Webster and Jim Jeffcoat clone....they were not bumping anyone....

But it isn't the bottom 4 positions on the depth chart... it's the middle of the ******* defense... defensive tackle (and defensive line in general) and middle linebacker are pretty ******* important areas. And don't give me that we haven't lost a game because of roster management. We lost 3 grey cups in a row in large part to roster management. Collaros playing hurt in 2022, 3 receivers who couldn't run in 2023... there's issues with how this roster is constructed and to deny that is just dumb.

https://www.nhlpa.com/news/1-22901/nhl-nhlpa-ratify-four-year-collective-bargaining-agreement

Well preseason he was better... historically he's been more impactful... what else do you want? J. Jones hasn't had the opportunity to get on the field with the Bombers in regular season so your argument ultimately boils down to "well the coaches are infallible when building the roster"... and that's a HARD sell given the history that is there with that aspect. Or was Sam Hurl always there because he was the best option back in the day?

I don't think Thomas playing 8 more snaps is a direct result of us losing the last game. It's just such an obvious bad decision that it makes us lose faith that he will ever make a tough decision when needed. The weird roster management with Canadians and playing certain guys like Thmoas decreases our chance of winning. Why not put the best potential players on the field to give us the highest % chance of winning?

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Have you been watching O'Shea's win/loss record? You guys are so fixated on the bottom 4 positions of our depth chart it has become almost comical. We have not lost a game due to roster management since this notion reared it's head a couple years ago. Roster management is such a minor part of what win/loses games at the pro level unless star players are out with injury. Every game comes down to about a dozen key plays that tell the tale of the game. Big time players make big time plays and they are not found at the bottom of the depth chart. I'm not excusing Osh's roster management, it could be better, but this nonsense that Jake Thomas taking 8 snaps a game more than he should is costing us games is ridiculous. If you want to talk about roster decisions of consequence we can look to stuff like the decision to keep Collaros over Brown, or to let Lawler walk. These are impactful decisions to our ability to win and worthy of some debate. However, then we are no longer talking about O'Shea are we. I think you guys got the crosshairs on the wrong guy. Even dud FA signings this year that can't beat out some mediocre talent ahead of them lies with the front office, not the coach.

Have you been watching O'Shea's roster management?

Who says we are bringing in talent that is better? Guys have to earn their way into the lineup. I'm not saying that is the case 100% of the time, but it certainly is the overwhelming majority of the time. Seen a lot of grousing that J.Jones , as one example, should be in the lineup vs T. Jones....what I haven't seen is a single shred of evidence to back up the claim that he would be better. Sometimes, guys are on the sidelines despite a guy ahead of them having weaknesses+ because they aren't as good. Name one guy that the scouts brought in that is better than the incumbent. Please provide proof of that.

No point in bringing in talent if they are not allowed to challenge and replace the existing players unless there is a catastrophic injury. That has to be frustrating for the scouting staff.

QFT times 1000

Absolutely, I am not sure the merry go round on roster discussion is even worth the time anymore because pretty much everyone who has an opinion on it is about as well informed on each side of the equation as humanly possible over the past 2 years and 10000 posts related to it. However, I doubt the discussion dies anytime soon because Jake Thomas is still a Bomber.

My 2 cents Yes, it does feel as if on this board we go down the roster usage hole over and over, and it seems to creep into every thread. Perhaps it is overdone/discussed, and I could see some getting put off or annoyed with it, and yes we have posters with two very opposite opinions of it (one-5 GC's we know what we are doing-two-we are not putting our best athletes on the field and optimizing our roster) To a degree both these opinions have legs to stand on and valid points, I think this is why it comes up over and over. It is also amplified as some of our top posters have strong opinions on this matter. In conclusion yes, this goes round and round, but let's all step back and look at the 10,000ft view and be thankful that we have not just one but two active Bomber forums and that we have enough people and passion to continue to have these discussions.

I mentioned in the Elks game that those guys were playing hard and very intense despite losing. Our D front 7 on D just doesn't seem to have any oomph outside of Kramdi. The visuals of Thomas being tossed around like a child really doesn't help give the impression of a team that is pushing anyone around.

the condition where 5 guys shouldn't be playing...but will be like the 2023 cup...

Yep. Remember that one as well.

And it's still relatively early in the season... what kind of condition will those guys be in down the stretch and into the playoffs?

This. An O'Shea team used to have the opposition beaten down by the 4th quarter. Remember the audio of the 2019 Grey Cup? They don't play that way anymore, and it's not hard to understand why they don't, some literally can't.

There was one on Pembina. I think its a Credit Union now

couldnt have said it better....kinda hits nail on the head and now that the original core is aged...declining...some case not good enough...a couple never really were good enough, yet still play them like CFL Hall of Famers in their prime...well you get what you get Used to be you had an outlier random stink bombe of a game....seemed unprepared/unmotivated....but plenty of dominance games ....now you have random dominant game, which almost seems like the outlier game now....but more and more games of hot garbage, totally outcoached and looking unprepared....guys going through motions....and the coach with his ho hum attitude about it...reluctance to do anything diffeent or about it....and has that look on the sidelines that does not show any concern or anger about what he seeing...almost a confused befuddled....stunned look, and it's just status quo and look back at the past and assume it will show up again....and it won't more times than it will Add in the fact we dont even give guys a chance doesnt help...Would JJones be better?....can Shay and Smith take reps in rotation to develop....sure be nice to see...Would Griffin be the better SAM....That right there is a definate yes.....sitting down Jake for a game or 2 and use the imports strictly with Lawson in the middle....would we be better....more productive?....pretty sure yup....would that hekp WJ and Vaughters...especially with a legit guy to rotate in....only a fool would think no.....so who is our fool? and the biggest thing if these guys on our roster and PR are not god enough or have any ability or upside to get on the roster and make a difference...then why are they still here?

The Bombers sometimes will remind me of the place I work. This one guy has showed up 3 times in May, 4 Times in June and so far zero in July. Yet one day he'll come in and it will be like nothing has happened, as usual. Some managment groups only make changes when it is 100% necessary or the change is made for them. Otherwise they'll just ignore the problem.

I think they still would... if they weren't gassed before they got to the wall. It's like I said before, too much complacency from the coach. I suspect a losing streak would alleviate that but as long as the team wins more than it loses it'll still be there.

The head ref can overrule his assistants in soccer - methinks football should be the same.

I don’t think there’s a lack of a plan. The plan just doesn’t make a ton of sense. We just completely re-configured our front office this offseason and added more bodies. What was the net effect? Our pro scouting highlighted guys who can’t crack our roster (J. Jones, Mitchell, etc) and our crop of recruits got us what … one new body? And the shine has worn off of him since he seems to be getting worse, not better? Great. What’s the draft plan? Okay, basically just draft guys to play special teams? Shay, Smith? Can’t give them D reps. Why would we? What’s the roster plan? OL - washed. DL - gassed. LB - not versatile enough to fit our DC’s preference. WR - thin. Okay so what do we do to adjust? What’s the coach’s plan? Doesn’t really seem to have one these days. Doesn’t affect much in-game. Our halftime adjustments seem invisible. The leash on underperformers is infinite. Won’t challenge anything. Won’t use the roster rules. And the overarching point everyone used to make - players would run through a wall for him? Do we see that drive out there anymore? I don’t.