iso_55 Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 People just LOVE the hyperbole. Whether it's with win/loss records or salaries, they throw around numbers like "6-12" or "250k" like they have any clue what it means. Here's the reality: with Drew Willy, we were a COMPETITIVE football team. With him in the lineup starting and finishing a game, we were 3-1 ... could've been 4-0, could've been 2-2. But we competed every game and had a shot. Logical thinking suggests that doesn't balance out at 6-12 unless we REALLY had things not going our way. The reality is that the injury that took Willy out of the lineup for multiple games was going to happen sooner or later. So the idea of Willy staying healthy and keeping the Bombers competitive for an entire year is just a fantasy. This, I agree with. With the protection we were providing him? No way was a full year in the cards. Sadly. It is sad. As much as I'd like to agree with you Mike about being a 9-9 team with Willy playing every game as we all want the Bombers to win, we just have too many holes on our roster to be really competitive. I like Drew Willy a lot. He's our qb & glad we have him but he really needs help. Coaching & player wise to be successful & he's not getting any of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotoriousBIG Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 The problems with this team begin way higher than MB or even MOS. We have no damn players! While it's clear Walters has to go (and perhaps he's plotting his exit as we speak), Miller should also be put on watch. He hired his buddies, lied about the "exhaustive search for a GM," and now we have horrible depth and aren't even competitive. I am not the "fire everyone" type, but in my mind the order of axing should be: - Marcel - Walters - Miller - MOS Would like to see what MOS could do with a talented group of players before I call him a total bust. The other guys above? DUDS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 People just LOVE the hyperbole. Whether it's with win/loss records or salaries, they throw around numbers like "6-12" or "250k" like they have any clue what it means. Here's the reality: with Drew Willy, we were a COMPETITIVE football team. With him in the lineup starting and finishing a game, we were 3-1 ... could've been 4-0, could've been 2-2. But we competed every game and had a shot. Logical thinking suggests that doesn't balance out at 6-12 unless we REALLY had things not going our way. The reality is that the injury that took Willy out of the lineup for multiple games was going to happen sooner or later. So the idea of Willy staying healthy and keeping the Bombers competitive for an entire year is just a fantasy. This, I agree with. With the protection we were providing him? No way was a full year in the cards. Sadly. And I agree with you both there. It is sad. As much as I'd like to agree with you Mike as we all want the Bombers to win, we just have too many holes on our roster to be really competitive. ... then why were we incredibly competitive while Drew Willy was healthy? I mean really ... name these holes on our roster. Running back? I'll give you that one. Receiver? Debatable ... we could use another game breaker but Adams/Moore/Denmark seemed just fine while Drew was healthy. OL? Yeah ... probably why Willy is on the sidelines to begin with. But the talent itself is nowhere near as bad as it's made out to be. Scheme wise? Terrible. Defense? I don't see a lot of personnel holes. Especially as the year has gone on. I see one glaring issue with our team - the offensive game plan. Our talent isn't elite level but it's easily sufficient to maintain a competitive level of football with the proper gameplan. There aren't a LOT of holes on this team. There is one major one. And it's killing us. SPuDS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noeller Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 I've said all along that with a healthy Drew Willy, this team can beat anyone in the league. The only question is about whether or not Drew Willy can ever play 10+ games in a season... SPuDS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 As for getting rid of O'Shea or keeping him ... I think O'Shea takes a lot of heat for all of the wrong reasons. Which, to me, is funny because there's a very obvious reason he SHOULD be taking a lot of heat that anyone rarely questions him on. His roster management is absolutely atrocious. The makeup of our 44 man gameday roster has been awful all year and a lot of it seems to be because MOS isn't able to make roster moves on his own - his hand has to be forced by injury to do anything. In the 2 years that he has been head coach, I'd like to see anyone name one player that has been benched because of their performance. There hasn't been. The little things that he's failed to do all year have been atrocious. Brendan Morgan, in the earlier part of the year, was taking ST penalty after ST penalty and not once did he find his way off the gameday roster because of it. The revolving door of defensive ends has been incredibly frustrating as well - only once we found Justin Cole did they sort that out and that was only because Thad Gibson got nicked. Tim Cronk having any role on our roster boggles my mind. The fact that he's a backup long snapper pales in comparison to the fact that we have him out there taking a considerable amount of snaps on offense despite being useless as anything other than a minor speedbump. With the return of Ian Wild, there's absolutely no reason you couldn't have Chris Normand fill that role and actually be versatile enough to provide some offensive upside as well. If Cronk stays on this week? Horrible decision. Letting Bryant Turner play while Nate Collins wastes away on the sidelines is a total shame too. Turner has been better of late but him and Anderson have taken turns this year doing absolutely nothing but Collins for some reason stays stapled to the bench unless there's an injury. Chevon Walker. Enough said. Dominic Picard. You can't tell me it's to keep continuity with the QB handling the same snaps, so what's the deal? Give Goossen a chance already, Picard has been atrocious all year. Justin Veltung is the best returner on our team but Troy Stoudermire is allowed to keep fumbling his way through games because he's the defacto man at that position. Nevermind the ball security issues. He was our guy last year, he's our guy this year. Why? Because loyalty I suppose. The roster management MOS employs is downright insulting. The fact that nobody gets benched for ANY level of poor performance is unacceptable, in my opinion. It's the same **** we went through with Kuale last year. Realistically ... with the personnel we have right now available to us, this should be our roster QB - Nichols, Davis, Brohm RB - Marshall, Normand FB - Pontbriand REC - Moore, Adams, Denmark, Veltung, Willie, Bastien, Kohlert OL - Bryant, Neufeld, Picard, Goossen, Chungh, Capers DL - Westerman, Cole, Peach, Turner, Collins, Thomas, Brown LB - Wild, Bass, Hurl, Leggett, Briggs, Waggoner, Newman DB - Bucknor, Johnson, Washington, Adams, Jones, Morgan S - Shell, Sherman K - Hajrullahu P - Castillo LS - Rempel SPuDS, Blueandgold, TBURGESS and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 Incredibly competitive? Just when I thought you & I maybe had reached some common ground. We aren't incredibly competitive with Willy. We are just competitive. We weren't in first place setting the CFL on fire when he got hurt like Collaros was in Hamilton. Without Willy, we seem lost at the qb position & everything that is bad about this football team just rears its ugly head. But who cares, this team was bound to fail just as Willy was bound to get hurt. Arguing about what ifs are a waste of time. BTW, I just read your post about MOS after I posted mine & I agree 100%.. Coaching is killing this team. That was a very good post, Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearpants Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 Incredibly competitive? Just when I thought you & I maybe had reached some common ground. We aren't incredibly competitive with Willy. We are just competitive. We weren't in first place setting the CFL on fire when he got hurt like Collaros was in Hamilton. Without Willy, we seem lost at the qb position & everything that is bad about this football team just rears its ugly head. But who cares, this team was bound to fail just as Willy was bound to get hurt. Arguing about what ifs are a waste of time. BTW, I just read your post about MOS after I posted mine & I agree 100%.. Coaching is killing this team. That was a very good post, Mike. Haha wow, talk about arguing semantics! sweep the leg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 Incredibly competitive? Just when I thought you & I maybe had reached some common ground. We aren't incredibly competitive with Willy. We are just competitive. We weren't in first place setting the CFL on fire when he got hurt like Collaros was in Hamilton. Without Willy, we seem lost at the qb position & everything that is bad about this football team just rears its ugly head. But who cares, this team was bound to fail just as Willy was bound to get hurt. Arguing about what ifs are a waste of time. BTW, I just read your post about MOS after I posted mine & I agree 100%.. Coaching is killing this team. That was a very good post, Mike. Haha wow, talk about arguing semantics! Okay then you explain... if you can't tell the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodoochylde Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 Incredibly competitive? Just when I thought you & I maybe had reached some common ground. We aren't incredibly competitive with Willy. We are just competitive. We weren't in first place setting the CFL on fire when he got hurt like Collaros was in Hamilton. Without Willy, we seem lost at the qb position & everything that is bad about this football team just rears its ugly head. But who cares, this team was bound to fail just as Willy was bound to get hurt. Arguing about what ifs are a waste of time. BTW, I just read your post about MOS after I posted mine & I agree 100%.. Coaching is killing this team. That was a very good post, Mike. Actually, going into the game Willy got hurt .. we were in first place .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 Incredibly competitive? Just when I thought you & I maybe had reached some common ground. We aren't incredibly competitive with Willy. We are just competitive. We weren't in first place setting the CFL on fire when he got hurt like Collaros was in Hamilton. Without Willy, we seem lost at the qb position & everything that is bad about this football team just rears its ugly head. But who cares, this team was bound to fail just as Willy was bound to get hurt. Arguing about what ifs are a waste of time. BTW, I just read your post about MOS after I posted mine & I agree 100%.. Coaching is killing this team. That was a very good post, Mike. Haha wow, talk about arguing semantics! Okay then you explain... if you can't tell the difference. When Drew Willy finished the game this year, the only game we lost, we lost by 1 point to the defending Grey Cup champs and it came down to the final possession of the game to be decided. If that's not "incredibly competitive", what is? SPuDS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearpants Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 Incredibly competitive? Just when I thought you & I maybe had reached some common ground. We aren't incredibly competitive with Willy. We are just competitive. We weren't in first place setting the CFL on fire when he got hurt like Collaros was in Hamilton. Without Willy, we seem lost at the qb position & everything that is bad about this football team just rears its ugly head. But who cares, this team was bound to fail just as Willy was bound to get hurt. Arguing about what ifs are a waste of time. BTW, I just read your post about MOS after I posted mine & I agree 100%.. Coaching is killing this team. That was a very good post, Mike. Haha wow, talk about arguing semantics! Okay then you explain... if you can't tell the difference. Let's say we lose to Calgary 28-27 this week... Person 1: well we were at least competitive in that game Person 2: we held up with the class of the league, this team is incredibly competitive... It's all perspective... that's all I'm saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 Incredibly competitive? Just when I thought you & I maybe had reached some common ground. We aren't incredibly competitive with Willy. We are just competitive. We weren't in first place setting the CFL on fire when he got hurt like Collaros was in Hamilton. Without Willy, we seem lost at the qb position & everything that is bad about this football team just rears its ugly head. But who cares, this team was bound to fail just as Willy was bound to get hurt. Arguing about what ifs are a waste of time. BTW, I just read your post about MOS after I posted mine & I agree 100%.. Coaching is killing this team. That was a very good post, Mike. Actually, going into the game Willy got hurt .. we were in first place .. Weren't we 3-4 or 3-5 when Willy got hurt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 Incredibly competitive? Just when I thought you & I maybe had reached some common ground. We aren't incredibly competitive with Willy. We are just competitive. We weren't in first place setting the CFL on fire when he got hurt like Collaros was in Hamilton. Without Willy, we seem lost at the qb position & everything that is bad about this football team just rears its ugly head. But who cares, this team was bound to fail just as Willy was bound to get hurt. Arguing about what ifs are a waste of time. BTW, I just read your post about MOS after I posted mine & I agree 100%.. Coaching is killing this team. That was a very good post, Mike. Actually, going into the game Willy got hurt .. we were in first place .. Weren't we 3-4 or 3-5 when Willy got hurt? 3-3 going into the game. So 2nd place, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 Incredibly competitive? Just when I thought you & I maybe had reached some common ground. We aren't incredibly competitive with Willy. We are just competitive. We weren't in first place setting the CFL on fire when he got hurt like Collaros was in Hamilton. Without Willy, we seem lost at the qb position & everything that is bad about this football team just rears its ugly head. But who cares, this team was bound to fail just as Willy was bound to get hurt. Arguing about what ifs are a waste of time. BTW, I just read your post about MOS after I posted mine & I agree 100%.. Coaching is killing this team. That was a very good post, Mike. Haha wow, talk about arguing semantics! Okay then you explain... if you can't tell the difference. Let's say we lose to Calgary 28-27 this week... Person 1: well we were at least competitive in that game Person 2: we held up with the class of the league, this team is incredibly competitive... It's all perspective... that's all I'm saying i don't look upon it like that. Incredibly Competitive WERE the Ti Cats before Collaros got hurt coasting to the playoffs at full speed dismantling teams at home. Or the Stamps cruising along, maybe in close games but finding ways to win at the end. Competitive teams are those that win 1 lose 2 or win 2, lose 3 but are 8-10 or 9-9 at seasons end. We were 3-3 when Willy got hurt so we were competive. On any given day we could beat the best or lose to the worst. Willy gave us a chance to win every game but if people think we were good enough to hang with Hamilton or Calgary with Drew Willy before he was injured then they were wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 Incredibly competitive? Just when I thought you & I maybe had reached some common ground. We aren't incredibly competitive with Willy. We are just competitive. We weren't in first place setting the CFL on fire when he got hurt like Collaros was in Hamilton. Without Willy, we seem lost at the qb position & everything that is bad about this football team just rears its ugly head. But who cares, this team was bound to fail just as Willy was bound to get hurt. Arguing about what ifs are a waste of time. BTW, I just read your post about MOS after I posted mine & I agree 100%.. Coaching is killing this team. That was a very good post, Mike. Actually, going into the game Willy got hurt .. we were in first place .. Weren't we 3-4 or 3-5 when Willy got hurt? 3-3 going into the game. So 2nd place, I believe. That sounds more like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodoochylde Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 Incredibly competitive? Just when I thought you & I maybe had reached some common ground. We aren't incredibly competitive with Willy. We are just competitive. We weren't in first place setting the CFL on fire when he got hurt like Collaros was in Hamilton. Without Willy, we seem lost at the qb position & everything that is bad about this football team just rears its ugly head. But who cares, this team was bound to fail just as Willy was bound to get hurt. Arguing about what ifs are a waste of time. BTW, I just read your post about MOS after I posted mine & I agree 100%.. Coaching is killing this team. That was a very good post, Mike. Actually, going into the game Willy got hurt .. we were in first place .. Weren't we 3-4 or 3-5 when Willy got hurt? 3-3 going into the game. So 2nd place, I believe. That sounds more like it. Thought we were 3-2 and tied for first at that point ..my mistake .. point remains .. we are / were still competitive league wide with Willy behind centre. SPuDS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearpants Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 Incredibly competitive? Just when I thought you & I maybe had reached some common ground. We aren't incredibly competitive with Willy. We are just competitive. We weren't in first place setting the CFL on fire when he got hurt like Collaros was in Hamilton. Without Willy, we seem lost at the qb position & everything that is bad about this football team just rears its ugly head. But who cares, this team was bound to fail just as Willy was bound to get hurt. Arguing about what ifs are a waste of time. BTW, I just read your post about MOS after I posted mine & I agree 100%.. Coaching is killing this team. That was a very good post, Mike. Haha wow, talk about arguing semantics! Okay then you explain... if you can't tell the difference. Let's say we lose to Calgary 28-27 this week... Person 1: well we were at least competitive in that game Person 2: we held up with the class of the league, this team is incredibly competitive... It's all perspective... that's all I'm saying i don't look upon it like that. Incredibly Competitive WERE the Ti Cats before Collaros got hurt coasting to the playoffs at full speed dismantling teams at home. Or the Stamps cruising along, maybe in close games but finding ways to win at the end. Competitive teams are those that win 1 lose 2 or win 2, lose 3 but are 8-10 or 9-9 at seasons end. We were 3-3 when Willy got hurt so we were competive. On any given day we could beat the best or lose to the worst. Willy gave us a chance to win every game but if people think we were good enough to hang with Hamilton or Calgary with Drew Willy before he was injured then they were wrong. I don't disagree with you but others may see it differently... someone might call the Stamps and Cats the class of the league and don't use "competitive" as the adjective... while saying that Toronto and Ottawa have been "incredibly competitive"... which the Bombers, arguable, could be with Willy... again, it's all about perspective... I'll I'm saying it you were essentially arguing someone's use of adjectives when you are basically intending the same thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 Incredibly competitive? Just when I thought you & I maybe had reached some common ground. We aren't incredibly competitive with Willy. We are just competitive. We weren't in first place setting the CFL on fire when he got hurt like Collaros was in Hamilton. Without Willy, we seem lost at the qb position & everything that is bad about this football team just rears its ugly head. But who cares, this team was bound to fail just as Willy was bound to get hurt. Arguing about what ifs are a waste of time. BTW, I just read your post about MOS after I posted mine & I agree 100%.. Coaching is killing this team. That was a very good post, Mike. Haha wow, talk about arguing semantics! Okay then you explain... if you can't tell the difference. Let's say we lose to Calgary 28-27 this week... Person 1: well we were at least competitive in that game Person 2: we held up with the class of the league, this team is incredibly competitive... It's all perspective... that's all I'm saying i don't look upon it like that. Incredibly Competitive WERE the Ti Cats before Collaros got hurt coasting to the playoffs at full speed dismantling teams at home. Or the Stamps cruising along, maybe in close games but finding ways to win at the end. Competitive teams are those that win 1 lose 2 or win 2, lose 3 but are 8-10 or 9-9 at seasons end. We were 3-3 when Willy got hurt so we were competive. On any given day we could beat the best or lose to the worst. Willy gave us a chance to win every game but if people think we were good enough to hang with Hamilton or Calgary with Drew Willy before he was injured then they were wrong. I don't disagree with you but others may see it differently... someone might call the Stamps and Cats the class of the league and don't use "competitive" as the adjective... while saying that Toronto and Ottawa have been "incredibly competitive"... which the Bombers, arguable, could be with Willy... again, it's all about perspective... I'll I'm saying it you were essentially arguing someone's use of adjectives when you are basically intending the same thing... Mike said Incredibly Competitive, not me. I have never used that term in my entire life. I've always just said Competitive because either you are or you aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 Incredibly competitive? Just when I thought you & I maybe had reached some common ground. We aren't incredibly competitive with Willy. We are just competitive. We weren't in first place setting the CFL on fire when he got hurt like Collaros was in Hamilton. Without Willy, we seem lost at the qb position & everything that is bad about this football team just rears its ugly head. But who cares, this team was bound to fail just as Willy was bound to get hurt. Arguing about what ifs are a waste of time. BTW, I just read your post about MOS after I posted mine & I agree 100%.. Coaching is killing this team. That was a very good post, Mike. Haha wow, talk about arguing semantics! Okay then you explain... if you can't tell the difference. Let's say we lose to Calgary 28-27 this week... Person 1: well we were at least competitive in that game Person 2: we held up with the class of the league, this team is incredibly competitive... It's all perspective... that's all I'm saying i don't look upon it like that. Incredibly Competitive WERE the Ti Cats before Collaros got hurt coasting to the playoffs at full speed dismantling teams at home. Or the Stamps cruising along, maybe in close games but finding ways to win at the end. Competitive teams are those that win 1 lose 2 or win 2, lose 3 but are 8-10 or 9-9 at seasons end. We were 3-3 when Willy got hurt so we were competive. On any given day we could beat the best or lose to the worst. Willy gave us a chance to win every game but if people think we were good enough to hang with Hamilton or Calgary with Drew Willy before he was injured then they were wrong. ... we DID hang with Calgary. What part of that are you missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 The entire season or am I missing something? Oh yeah, Stoudemire fumbled & we lost. Almost means what? Close only counts in horseshoes. As much as I'd like it to be, even with Willy we can't hang with Calgary over an entire season. They have too much talent on that roster that we don't have. Yeah, that game in July was close but I don't judge on just one game, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan Boy Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 This actually may have me losing more faith in MOS than anything said, done, or not done, to date. Very demoralizing The news conference on the bombes website has MOS saying that they are their record so I don't know where this other statement came from. Not saying he din't say that but that he said the opposite in the news conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbill2004 Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 This actually may have me losing more faith in MOS than anything said, done, or not done, to date. Very demoralizing The news conference on the bombes website has MOS saying that they are their record so I don't know where this other statement came from. Not saying he din't say that but that he said the opposite in the news conference. Bauming tweeted it. But he didn't include the full context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 The entire season or am I missing something? Oh yeah, Stoudemire fumbled & we lost. Almost means what? Close only counts in horseshoes. As much as I'd like it to be, even with Willy we can't hang with Calgary over an entire season. They have too much talent on that roster that we don't have. Yeah, that game in July was close but I don't judge on just one game, sorry. I'm not sure if you understand the term competitive anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 I once had a discussion like this when we had a coaches meeting years ago. We began to discuss bantam football rankings. We were in third place having lost to the two teams ahead of us. The game between us & the second place team was close where we lost by something like a FG as I recall. It was the late 90's or early 2000's so I can't remember the score The other coach felt that we should be ranked ahead of the second place team because we lost by something like 18 points to the first place team, yet the second place team lost by 30 to the first place team therefore he thought we were better & should be ranked second. He didn't care that the second place team beat us already. I just went WTF?? He was completely serious & nothing anyone could say changed his mind so after about 10 minutes of back & forth yelling we just moved on. Kinda like we should do here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 The entire season or am I missing something? Oh yeah, Stoudemire fumbled & we lost. Almost means what? Close only counts in horseshoes. As much as I'd like it to be, even with Willy we can't hang with Calgary over an entire season. They have too much talent on that roster that we don't have. Yeah, that game in July was close but I don't judge on just one game, sorry. I'm not sure if you understand the term competitive anymore. You own this site so you have the last word on everything. Yep, you're right. I'm wrong. That's the way it is as you're always right anyway. Let's just end this. You win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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