Any thoughts?

I simply find it hilarious how quickly people pile on players who have looked rock solid up to a preseason game and then boom they must be trash..

Banks, suber, pencer, January (dafuq?) and wild are all going nowhere unless they fawk up something serious in Calgary.. You guys DO realize we are working into a new offence, a new defence and a new HC coupled with crazy rotations all game long, right?

Smh.

 

How are we piling on? And why is suggesting they could be cut equated to suggesting they may be trash.

 

Good players can be cut too.

 

When you have better players.

 

anyone listen to the coaches show tonight?

it was on at 7

some notes

o'shea praised wild, said he played well yesterday and the d was very vanilla as etch didn't want to give too much away to a team they play for real in a couple weeks.

Is there a link to the show to listen online?

 

 

CJOB audio on demand: http://www.cjob.com/audio-on-demand/

 

There are some clips with the stories here: http://www.cjob.com/bombers/

I simply find it hilarious how quickly people pile on players who have looked rock solid up to a preseason game and then boom they must be trash..

Banks, suber, pencer, January (dafuq?) and wild are all going nowhere unless they fawk up something serious in Calgary.. You guys DO realize we are working into a new offence, a new defence and a new HC coupled with crazy rotations all game long, right?

Smh.

Pencer has looked rock solid thus far in his career?

I thought this camp and his limited time last season all looked like they were progressions in where he was before.. Not leaps and bounds but not a wasted endeavour yet..

I simply find it hilarious how quickly people pile on players who have looked rock solid up to a preseason game and then boom they must be trash..

Banks, suber, pencer, January (dafuq?) and wild are all going nowhere unless they fawk up something serious in Calgary.. You guys DO realize we are working into a new offence, a new defence and a new HC coupled with crazy rotations all game long, right?

Smh.

 

How are we piling on? And why is suggesting they could be cut equated to suggesting they may be trash.

 

Good players can be cut too.

 

When you have better players.

Do we have better players? And I equate a cut player to traditionally mean he's closer to trash then to treasure, wouldn't you?

SPuDs, why do you worry about stuff like this? 

SPuDs, why do you worry about stuff like this or are constantly defending everything?

Because on a discussion forum, I like to discuss things.. Why do you feel the need to put the stamps on a pedestal and then get angry when people comment on it?

 

 

I simply find it hilarious how quickly people pile on players who have looked rock solid up to a preseason game and then boom they must be trash..

Banks, suber, pencer, January (dafuq?) and wild are all going nowhere unless they fawk up something serious in Calgary.. You guys DO realize we are working into a new offence, a new defence and a new HC coupled with crazy rotations all game long, right?

Smh.

 

How are we piling on? And why is suggesting they could be cut equated to suggesting they may be trash.

 

Good players can be cut too.

 

When you have better players.

Do we have better players? And I equate a cut player to traditionally mean he's closer to trash then to treasure, wouldn't you?

 

 

I guess we'll find out. That's what we were discussing.

Wouldn't cut Banks. I'm more concerned about the D schemes than any particular player really, but even those won't be the ones we see in the opener.

Wouldn't cut Banks. I'm more concerned about the D schemes than any particular player really, but even those won't be the ones we see in the opener.

 

I know it's preseason and I know Etch doesn't want to tip his hand .. but honestly .. watching the Argos run on us (at will) on Monday night made me cringe ..

 

Wouldn't cut Banks. I'm more concerned about the D schemes than any particular player really, but even those won't be the ones we see in the opener.

 

I know it's preseason and I know Etch doesn't want to tip his hand .. but honestly .. watching the Argos run on us (at will) on Monday night made me cringe ..

 

 

Agreed. Especially in the flats. Because that's where Owens and Durie (and now probably Coombs) make a living.

 

 

Wouldn't cut Banks. I'm more concerned about the D schemes than any particular player really, but even those won't be the ones we see in the opener.

 

I know it's preseason and I know Etch doesn't want to tip his hand .. but honestly .. watching the Argos run on us (at will) on Monday night made me cringe ..

 

 

Agreed. Especially in the flats. Because that's where Owens and Durie (and now probably Coombs) make a living.

 

 

This is where I thought Unamba (and our linebackers in general) struggled .. 1/4 of all passes the Argo QBs completed were to RBs .. every single pass was caught (7/7 on passes to running backs for 66 yards .. nearly 9.5 a reception) .. the backs also accounted for 3 majors and about half of Toronto's total offense (around 48%) .. it didn't inspire a lot of confidence in a coordinator who has been seen as a somewhat unconventional guy ..

 

Wouldn't cut Banks. I'm more concerned about the D schemes than any particular player really, but even those won't be the ones we see in the opener.

 

I know it's preseason and I know Etch doesn't want to tip his hand .. but honestly .. watching the Argos run on us (at will) on Monday night made me cringe ..

 

Indeed, hope it's not bend AND break.

Not much new to get excited about except maybe Marve and the kickers,

the oline was more bad than good

TO just kept attacking the flats and the LB's & DE's were nowhere to be found, the DT's & LB's got washed away against the run, the secondary was the same old same old, but everyone loves Suber, lol, okay

TO just looked bigger and stronger at all positions.

 

Wouldn't cut Banks. I'm more concerned about the D schemes than any particular player really, but even those won't be the ones we see in the opener.

 

I know it's preseason and I know Etch doesn't want to tip his hand .. but honestly .. watching the Argos run on us (at will) on Monday night made me cringe ..

 

 

Thing that bothers me is all the "everyone rally to the ball" stuff, but then you watch them on Monday and most runs right up the gut became 1 on 1 in open field, when you should have more guys in the middle of the field when the offense attacks there.  If Wild misses one tackle, it's an easy TD.  They rallied pretty well when the ball was outside the tackles, but the middle of the field was gaping.  I guess we can take solace in the fact that no one will step out of bounds without being hit, but they can just take 10 yards right up the middle if they wish.  The scheme was likely very vanilla, but that core principle of everyone rallying to the ball was missing for the most part.

I thought there were quite a bit of good things.

 

Willy looked better than anything we had last year, so did marve.

 

The kickers were great.

 

Denmark was awesome, Feoli Guidino made some nice plays, the oline wasn't as bad as the poster above(pigseye) is making it out to be, but as the game went on and the backups got in there.. yup they struggled a bit, to be expected though. Takes time for the oline to work as one, can't expect that to happen over night.

 

The oline started to look worse when hall and brohm were in, is that fully on the oline or is it on the qbs that were in? cuz marve had a crap oline to work with and he made it work.

 

washington, markett and randle all play well, teague shermans hustle play in the pre-season is a very good thing too. want to call that the lobendahn from now on tho.

I thought there were quite a bit of good things.

 

Willy looked better than anything we had last year, so did marve.

 

The kickers were great.

 

Denmark was awesome, Feoli Guidino made some nice plays, the oline wasn't as bad as the poster above(pigseye) is making it out to be, but as the game went on and the backups got in there.. yup they struggled a bit, to be expected though. Takes time for the oline to work as one, can't expect that to happen over night.

 

The oline started to look worse when hall and brohm were in, is that fully on the oline or is it on the qbs that were in? cuz marve had a crap oline to work with and he made it work.

 

The weakness in the offensive line was exposed when you had two, relatively immobile guys in Hall and Brohm behind center.   Marve was able to challenge the defense with his legs a bit and made them look better than they actually were .. that said .. there was a significant drop off in that unit's performance as the game went on (guys moving in and out) .. it was much more noticable for Winnipeg than it was Toronto.

I was referring to the one on one battles goalie, not the overall play of any unit. You'd hope that somebody would stand out somewhere but I didn't see much from the new bodies to get optimistic about.

 

 

Wouldn't cut Banks. I'm more concerned about the D schemes than any particular player really, but even those won't be the ones we see in the opener.

 

I know it's preseason and I know Etch doesn't want to tip his hand .. but honestly .. watching the Argos run on us (at will) on Monday night made me cringe ..

 

 

Thing that bothers me is all the "everyone rally to the ball" stuff, but then you watch them on Monday and most runs right up the gut became 1 on 1 in open field, when you should have more guys in the middle of the field when the offense attacks there.  If Wild misses one tackle, it's an easy TD.  They rallied pretty well when the ball was outside the tackles, but the middle of the field was gaping.  I guess we can take solace in the fact that no one will step out of bounds without being hit, but they can just take 10 yards right up the middle if they wish.  The scheme was likely very vanilla, but that core principle of everyone rallying to the ball was missing for the most part.

 

In reading this, it sounds eerliy similar to the 'buzz' defense Dallas Eakins tried to instill with the Oliers early in the season. Although a different sport, it also left gaping holes available for the opposition, i.e., 'look how much time I have in the slot'. He had to abandon it which he did. If he hadn't, he wouldn't have lasted the season.   

I'm a bit confused at the secrecy surrounding Etch's defence... I mean he's been in pro-football for what 30 years now??

 

Off the top of my head, an Etch defence sits back for the most part, willing to give up 4-5 yards on the run but focuses on converging to the ball carrier with his DBs deep enough to get an 'angle' on the ball.  We will give up yardage but - and I hate this term - its a bend but don't break D.  He needs good penetration from his DEs or the system pretty much collapses if the QB gets too much time.

 

His guys will lineup in crazy formations but almost always drop back into this same strategy.  After a while, the formations don't quite seem as dramatic although he will send his LBs on a blitz fairly regularly.  If we don't get pressure from the DL, Etch will start sending everybody regularly and it will get ugly...  so ugly that the 'mad scientist' will be running a pretty normal CFL zone defence by Week 17...

 

Lots of people know more about football on here - so feel free to correct me, if you think this assessment is off...

 

Basically, if 3-4 guys - like Randle, Leggett, Unamba and Kuale - really 'get' the system and thrive off of their instincts (which is pretty much all Etch's system asks), we could be good.  But this can go off the rails really really fast.

I'm a bit confused at the secrecy surrounding Etch's defence... I mean he's been in pro-football for what 30 years now??

 

Off the top of my head, an Etch defence sits back for the most part, willing to give up 4-5 yards on the run but focuses on converging to the ball carrier with his DBs deep enough to get an 'angle' on the ball.  We will give up yardage but - and I hate this term - its a bend but don't break D.  He needs good penetration from his DEs or the system pretty much collapses if the QB gets too much time.

 

His guys will lineup in crazy formations but almost always drop back into this same strategy.  After a while, the formations don't quite seem as dramatic although he will send his LBs on a blitz fairly regularly.  If we don't get pressure from the DL, Etch will start sending everybody regularly and it will get ugly...  so ugly that the 'mad scientist' will be running a pretty normal CFL zone defence by Week 17...

 

Lots of people know more about football on here - so feel free to correct me, if you think this assessment is off...

 

Basically, if 3-4 guys - like Randle, Leggett, Unamba and Kuale - really 'get' the system and thrive off of their instincts (which is pretty much all Etch's system asks), we could be good.  But this can go off the rails really really fast.

 

For the most part, I don't think Etcheverry thinks in those terms, what the defense is willing to give or bend but not break.  IMO, his scheme is all about throwing the offence off-balance and making them guess, basically having few tendencies that a QB can read pre-snap.  That's basically the opposite of Burke's D, which relies heavily on players to win 1 on 1 battles and really doesn't break tendency or engage in psychological warfare too much.  Etcheverry also has a lot of reads built into his scheme, so he's relying on his players to see certain things and react properly according to what he wants, anyone anywhere can basically end up doing anything, blitzing, dropping into coverage.  If Etcheverry was a hitter in baseball, he's looking to slug an extra base hit or a home run every pitch, whereas a guy like Burke is going to take a couple pitches and just try to make contact or get on base.

 

He has some other core beliefs too, smaller and faster is better than bigger, slower and stronger being a huge one, and he applies that to every position on the field.

 

I'm a bit confused at the secrecy surrounding Etch's defence... I mean he's been in pro-football for what 30 years now??

 

Off the top of my head, an Etch defence sits back for the most part, willing to give up 4-5 yards on the run but focuses on converging to the ball carrier with his DBs deep enough to get an 'angle' on the ball.  We will give up yardage but - and I hate this term - its a bend but don't break D.  He needs good penetration from his DEs or the system pretty much collapses if the QB gets too much time.

 

His guys will lineup in crazy formations but almost always drop back into this same strategy.  After a while, the formations don't quite seem as dramatic although he will send his LBs on a blitz fairly regularly.  If we don't get pressure from the DL, Etch will start sending everybody regularly and it will get ugly...  so ugly that the 'mad scientist' will be running a pretty normal CFL zone defence by Week 17...

 

Lots of people know more about football on here - so feel free to correct me, if you think this assessment is off...

 

Basically, if 3-4 guys - like Randle, Leggett, Unamba and Kuale - really 'get' the system and thrive off of their instincts (which is pretty much all Etch's system asks), we could be good.  But this can go off the rails really really fast.

 

For the most part, I don't think Etcheverry thinks in those terms, what the defense is willing to give or bend but not break.  IMO, his scheme is all about throwing the offence off-balance and making them guess, basically having few tendencies that a QB can read pre-snap.  That's basically the opposite of Burke's D, which relies heavily on players to win 1 on 1 battles and really doesn't break tendency or engage in psychological warfare too much.  Etcheverry also has a lot of reads built into his scheme, so he's relying on his players to see certain things and react properly according to what he wants, anyone anywhere can basically end up doing anything, blitzing, dropping into coverage.  If Etcheverry was a hitter in baseball, he's looking to slug an extra base hit or a home run every pitch, whereas a guy like Burke is going to take a couple pitches and just try to make contact or get on base.

 

He has some other core beliefs too, smaller and faster is better than bigger, slower and stronger being a huge one, and he applies that to every position on the field.

 

Which is interesting as I was chatting with Ed Hervey (with my Bomber cap on of course!) at my 10 year old son's football camp this past May and he wants the Esks to be Bigger and Stronger and way less on the smaller and faster. Would not a balance be ideal? 

While I don't think Banks will be cut, it's not like we gave up much to acquire him and IMO solely based on Monday nights game, he really doesn't do much for us.

Although considering the amount of noise I've made the past couple of season about the team having veteran leadership and being the youngest team in the league, I suppose he does have some uses.

 

 

Wouldn't cut Banks. I'm more concerned about the D schemes than any particular player really, but even those won't be the ones we see in the opener.

 

I know it's preseason and I know Etch doesn't want to tip his hand .. but honestly .. watching the Argos run on us (at will) on Monday night made me cringe ..

 

 

Thing that bothers me is all the "everyone rally to the ball" stuff, but then you watch them on Monday and most runs right up the gut became 1 on 1 in open field, when you should have more guys in the middle of the field when the offense attacks there.  If Wild misses one tackle, it's an easy TD.  They rallied pretty well when the ball was outside the tackles, but the middle of the field was gaping.  I guess we can take solace in the fact that no one will step out of bounds without being hit, but they can just take 10 yards right up the middle if they wish.  The scheme was likely very vanilla, but that core principle of everyone rallying to the ball was missing for the most part.

 

Instead of this "rally to the ball" stuff, why not just make sure there's not more than single gap cancellation on defense? In every sound defense there is never a two  consecutive gap cancellation. Anything more than one gap cancellation is real trouble. Rallying to the ball probably means a royal screw up somewhere. Besides, why do pro players have to be taught something they should know about like rallying to the football?

 

 

I simply find it hilarious how quickly people pile on players who have looked rock solid up to a preseason game and then boom they must be trash..

Banks, suber, pencer, January (dafuq?) and wild are all going nowhere unless they fawk up something serious in Calgary.. You guys DO realize we are working into a new offence, a new defence and a new HC coupled with crazy rotations all game long, right?

Smh.

Pencer has looked rock solid thus far in his career?

I thought this camp and his limited time last season all looked like they were progressions in where he was before.. Not leaps and bounds but not a wasted endeavour yet..

 

Swiston looks like he'll be on the 9 game IR as soon as the Bombers are allowed to put him on it, so Pencer isn't going anywhere in the short term.  Not unless Quinn Everett looks absolutely amazing.  Eight NI Olinemen on a CFL roster is pretty much the minimum.  Some teams carry ten.

 

He won't put together a 12 year career based on potential though.

 

I'm a bit confused at the secrecy surrounding Etch's defence... I mean he's been in pro-football for what 30 years now??

 

Off the top of my head, an Etch defence sits back for the most part, willing to give up 4-5 yards on the run but focuses on converging to the ball carrier with his DBs deep enough to get an 'angle' on the ball.  We will give up yardage but - and I hate this term - its a bend but don't break D.  He needs good penetration from his DEs or the system pretty much collapses if the QB gets too much time.

 

His guys will lineup in crazy formations but almost always drop back into this same strategy.  After a while, the formations don't quite seem as dramatic although he will send his LBs on a blitz fairly regularly.  If we don't get pressure from the DL, Etch will start sending everybody regularly and it will get ugly...  so ugly that the 'mad scientist' will be running a pretty normal CFL zone defence by Week 17...

 

Lots of people know more about football on here - so feel free to correct me, if you think this assessment is off...

 

Basically, if 3-4 guys - like Randle, Leggett, Unamba and Kuale - really 'get' the system and thrive off of their instincts (which is pretty much all Etch's system asks), we could be good.  But this can go off the rails really really fast.

 

For the most part, I don't think Etcheverry thinks in those terms, what the defense is willing to give or bend but not break.  IMO, his scheme is all about throwing the offence off-balance and making them guess, basically having few tendencies that a QB can read pre-snap.  That's basically the opposite of Burke's D, which relies heavily on players to win 1 on 1 battles and really doesn't break tendency or engage in psychological warfare too much.  Etcheverry also has a lot of reads built into his scheme, so he's relying on his players to see certain things and react properly according to what he wants, anyone anywhere can basically end up doing anything, blitzing, dropping into coverage.  If Etcheverry was a hitter in baseball, he's looking to slug an extra base hit or a home run every pitch, whereas a guy like Burke is going to take a couple pitches and just try to make contact or get on base.

 

He has some other core beliefs too, smaller and faster is better than bigger, slower and stronger being a huge one, and he applies that to every position on the field.

 

 

I totally agree that Etch doesn't think like that... but 'bend but don't break' is what it ends up being.  Its a ton of different formations that all seem to fall back into a fairly basic system imo... like a 'Super Fantastic Mega Zone' system.

 

Interesting... do you think he goes so far as to leave it up to the players to decide when to blitz?

 

Still say, that we start wacky, teams figure it out, Etch reels himself in for about four or five games and then goes nuts again.