http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl/cflpa-preparing-for-potential-labour-stoppage/

 

"Believing they have reached an impasse after four months of negotiations with the Canadian Football League, the CFL Players’ Association is recommending its membership proceed with a strike vote, Sportsnet has learned.

The collective bargaining agreement between the league and players expires May 30, on the eve of training camp. And while both sides are scheduled to meet this Thursday and Friday in Toronto, documents obtained by Sportsnet indicate the union is readying itself for a potential labour stoppage.

“It is the position of your Negotiating Committee that the position of the CFL in relation to almost all matters and their refusal to have the cap in some way connected to revenue are unreasonable,” reads an internal memo written by CFLPA President Scott Flory and distributed to all CFL players last Friday. “As a result, we are recommending that the Players proceed with a strike vote.”

Flory, who did not immediately respond to Sportsnet’s request for comment, has previously stated that the union will not play the 2014 season under terms of the expiring CBA, while both sides negotiate.

Sources told Sportsnet that when the two sides broke on May 2, the league, which declined comment for this story, said it would return this week with further input from governors/owners on making progress toward a new economic model.

Since talks began in February, the CFLPA has been steadfast in its pursuit of revenue sharing, something that wasn’t included in the 2010 deal but has existed between the league and the CFLPA in the past. The league’s negotiation committee has not budged from its stance of having a fixed cap.

At the centre of the debate is a new television deal, reportedly worth $40 million this coming season. The current deal is worth $15.3 million.

Last season’s salary cap was $4.4 million and proposals obtained by Sportsnet show the CFL has offered the following when it comes to player compensation:

2014 – $4,500,000.00
2015 – $4,600,000.00
2016 – $4,650,000.00
2017 – $4,700,000.00
2018 – $4,750,000.00
2019 – $4,800,000.00
2020 – $4,900,000.00
2021 – $5,000,000.00

There are several other points of contention. The CFLPA has proposed a minimum annual player salary of $55,000—with a 10 percent increase annually. The league countered with a $46,000 minimum, which caps at $49,000 in 2021.

The union has proposed practice roster players make no less than $1,000 a week (or $18,000 per season). The league has countered with $750/week, but to increase the practice roster size to 12, from seven, and implement “two-way” contracts, making it easier for teams to release players.

The union is also pushing for an increase to post-season playoff share, and a hike to the Grey Cup bonus cheque, which the league has refused.

One area the two sides have come to terms on is the increase in roster size–from 42 to 44 on game day. The extra two spots would be occupied by a non-import and one designated import. The reserve list would drop from four per game to two.

The CFL has proposed an eight-year collective bargaining agreement, double the length of the current deal. The union wants the duration to be “subject to negotiation.”

A source tied to the league, speaking on the condition of anonymity, believes the tactic of the league and its governors/owners is patience—the thinking being that the union will eventually give in once the risk of losing pay is a legitimate possibility."

Hey 98.6, it's good to have you back again. 

What's the current average number of padded practices per week?

What's the current average number of padded practices per week?

 

Like 1.5 a week I think.

What's the current average number of padded practices per week?

Like 1.5 a week I think.

Thanks. So asking for one per week isn't a crazy request.

There'll be no preseason is my guess, once the regular paychecks are (going) to be missed, they'll be back. We are not the 'main' league and half these guys don't live here. They don't fly up here to stand on a picket line. They'll sign whatever the CFL gives them. Book it 

Why is the notion that padded practice is an indication of full contact? There is a degree of a safety factor in wearing pads as some element of contact is likely when not wearing pads. ***** ***** *****...go naked if that makes them settle.

CFL should bump their offer up to 5.1 mil to start with 75k bumps every year, taking it to 5.4 mil in the 4th year of the deal.  Move down the revenue protection number from 27 mil to 25 mil.  Get to the table with those numbers, hash out the remaining issues, and be done with it.  At this point the CFLPA will likely accept any positive movement from the CFL.

When the players are ready to cave the CFL will throw in one last bone - that way the players can take a positive talking point to the press rather than just admit they lost.

 

I'm not getting the whole neurologist thing.  If we had catscan machines on the sidelines that would be one thing, but there is nothing a neurologist is going to do that a non-crappy doctor can't also do.  Emergency sideline brain surgery?

 

Symptoms present?  Don't go back in the game.  I know the NFL has it but that isn't anything more than a multi-billion dollar industry protecting it's butt from lawsuits.

There'll be no preseason is my guess, once the regular paychecks are (going) to be missed, they'll be back. We are not the 'main' league and half these guys don't live here. They don't fly up here to stand on a picket line. They'll sign whatever the CFL gives them. Book it

there will be for sure one the Argos and Bombers on Monday could be a huge advantage for the Bombers if the rest of the preseason games missed.

 

CFL should bump their offer up to 5.1 mil to start with 75k bumps every year, taking it to 5.4 mil in the 4th year of the deal.  Move down the revenue protection number from 27 mil to 25 mil.  Get to the table with those numbers, hash out the remaining issues, and be done with it.  At this point the CFLPA will likely accept any positive movement from the CFL.

When the players are ready to cave the CFL will throw in one last bone - that way the players can take a positive talking point to the press rather than just admit they lost.

 

I'm not getting the whole neurologist thing.  If we had catscan machines on the sidelines that would be one thing, but there is nothing a neurologist is going to do that a non-crappy doctor can't also do.  Emergency sideline brain surgery?

 

Symptoms present?  Don't go back in the game.  I know the NFL has it but that isn't anything more than a multi-billion dollar industry protecting it's butt from lawsuits.

 

 

Might have helped Tim Burke last year.

Neurologist thing seems like a red herring to me.  Why not also ask for surgical theatres in the locker room.  Surely the trainers are trained in how to assess concussion symptoms.  Just seems like something someone said in a conversation "and why dont we have brain doctors at the games?"  Yeah yeah, great idea.  I mean who cares?  Have cardiologists too well you're at it.  I guess if the NFL has them some people in the CFL think they need them too.

Well, if this doesn't throw a funk into the wagnells...

 

Drew Edwards……...

• one element of the labour dispute not getting enough attention is the Alberta Labour Relations Board ruling that will allow all players under contract - including first-year players - to participate in the the srike vote this weekend (and, one would assume, any ratification vote.) The CFLPA has maintained that players who have not played in a CFL game - and therefore haven't paid union dues off a game cheque - aren't eligible to vote. Now, the CFLPA has a situation where all players on two teams are voting while only vets are voting on the seven others.

The league would like all players to vote because they believe that the vast majority of first-year players won't want to strike, given that they need training camp to earn jobs.

 

Man, you Alberta folks have some weird interpretations. 

 

 

CFL should bump their offer up to 5.1 mil to start with 75k bumps every year, taking it to 5.4 mil in the 4th year of the deal.  Move down the revenue protection number from 27 mil to 25 mil.  Get to the table with those numbers, hash out the remaining issues, and be done with it.  At this point the CFLPA will likely accept any positive movement from the CFL.

When the players are ready to cave the CFL will throw in one last bone - that way the players can take a positive talking point to the press rather than just admit they lost.

 

I'm not getting the whole neurologist thing.  If we had catscan machines on the sidelines that would be one thing, but there is nothing a neurologist is going to do that a non-crappy doctor can't also do.  Emergency sideline brain surgery?

 

Symptoms present?  Don't go back in the game.  I know the NFL has it but that isn't anything more than a multi-billion dollar industry protecting it's butt from lawsuits.

 

 

Might have helped Tim Burke last year.

 

The SPCA should have been called to the sidelines last year to help poor Tim as he was nothing but a whipped puppy all season long. 

Well, if this doesn't throw a funk into the wagnells...

 

Drew Edwards……...

• one element of the labour dispute not getting enough attention is the Alberta Labour Relations Board ruling that will allow all players under contract - including first-year players - to participate in the the srike vote this weekend (and, one would assume, any ratification vote.) The CFLPA has maintained that players who have not played in a CFL game - and therefore haven't paid union dues off a game cheque - aren't eligible to vote. Now, the CFLPA has a situation where all players on two teams are voting while only vets are voting on the seven others.

The league would like all players to vote because they believe that the vast majority of first-year players won't want to strike, given that they need training camp to earn jobs.

 

Man, you Alberta folks have some weird interpretations. 

We here in Alberta like to think we don't live in some socialist utopia like you guys in Manitoba. We used to be free enterprise, pro business & anti unions. But Red Tories & closest NDPers like Ed Stelmach & Alison Redford changed all that. Now, we're just like everybody else. The Alberta Advantage is dead.

 

Well, if this doesn't throw a funk into the wagnells...

 

Drew Edwards……...

• one element of the labour dispute not getting enough attention is the Alberta Labour Relations Board ruling that will allow all players under contract - including first-year players - to participate in the the srike vote this weekend (and, one would assume, any ratification vote.) The CFLPA has maintained that players who have not played in a CFL game - and therefore haven't paid union dues off a game cheque - aren't eligible to vote. Now, the CFLPA has a situation where all players on two teams are voting while only vets are voting on the seven others.

The league would like all players to vote because they believe that the vast majority of first-year players won't want to strike, given that they need training camp to earn jobs.

 

Man, you Alberta folks have some weird interpretations. 

We here in Alberta like to think we don't live in some socialist utopia like you guys in Manitoba. We used to be free enterprise, pro business & anti unions. But Red Tories & closest NDPers like Ed Stelmach & Alison Redford changed all that. Now, we're just like everybody else. The Alberta Advantage is dead.

 

As a comparison of economic management, look at Norway vs Alberta. Both have the same amount of conventional petroleum reserves, but Norway has used their revenues to fund free Medicare including eye-care, psychological treatment, dentistry, physio, and pharmacare. They also have free post-secondary education for academically qualified  students and transportation infrastructure second to none. Also, no school or property taxes and they have some 50 billion dollars in various ethical investments all around the world.

And Alberta has Redford's penthouse and lot of very rich US and Chinese investors. Damn those socialists and their financial responsibilities.

Alberta has most of the rest of Canada to support. Norway just has to look after Norway.

 

Well, if this doesn't throw a funk into the wagnells...

 

Drew Edwards……...

• one element of the labour dispute not getting enough attention is the Alberta Labour Relations Board ruling that will allow all players under contract - including first-year players - to participate in the the srike vote this weekend (and, one would assume, any ratification vote.) The CFLPA has maintained that players who have not played in a CFL game - and therefore haven't paid union dues off a game cheque - aren't eligible to vote. Now, the CFLPA has a situation where all players on two teams are voting while only vets are voting on the seven others.

The league would like all players to vote because they believe that the vast majority of first-year players won't want to strike, given that they need training camp to earn jobs.

 

Man, you Alberta folks have some weird interpretations. 

We here in Alberta like to think we don't live in some socialist utopia like you guys in Manitoba. We used to be free enterprise, pro business & anti unions. But Red Tories & closest NDPers like Ed Stelmach & Alison Redford changed all that. Now, we're just like everybody else. The Alberta Advantage is dead.

 

Me thinks you over generalize a bit on behalf of Albertans.

You DO want to live in a socialist haven like Manitoba? No better time to move back then, we'll even have an NDP mayor soon! What could go wrong?

You DO want to live in a socialist haven like Manitoba? No better time to move back then, we'll even have an NDP mayor soon! What could go wrong?

 

Although this usually happens no matter who's in power.  

Guys.  Let's please keep the political discussion to the General forum ..

So, if I have this correct:

- Players don't deserve revenue sharing because this is a little league compared to NFL/NHL/NBA/whatever baseball is

- Players should accept their low base salaries because it's a small league, and they have nowhere else to play

- Players really get paid more because they have another job in the offseason

- Players have probably wasted all their money from the previous season (oh nos!!!1 but what about that supplementary income?!) - so therefore in a month they'll be begging to come back and play

Just looking at  things from a different perspective.

 

Now, I'm not saying the PA's offer isn't ridiculous, because it is, and it's stupid they aren't trying to negotiate - but I also know if they concede anything during negotiations the league will take advantage of that, and I believe that is why Flory is standing so firm in that.    How much they would?  Remains to be seen. The league says they've moved closer, but to be honest, their offer seems like the initial offer.  If they DID offer less, I can understand why that soured initial negotiations.

So, if I have this correct:

- Players don't deserve revenue sharing because this is a little league compared to NFL/NHL/NBA/whatever baseball is

- Players should accept their low base salaries because it's a small league, and they have nowhere else to play

- Players really get paid more because they have another job in the offseason

- Players have probably wasted all their money from the previous season (oh nos!!!1 but what about that supplementary income?!) - so therefore in a month they'll be begging to come back and play

Just looking at  things from a different perspective.

 

Now, I'm not saying the PA's offer isn't ridiculous, because it is, and it's stupid they aren't trying to negotiate - but I also know if they concede anything during negotiations the league will take advantage of that, and I believe that is why Flory is standing so firm in that.    How much they would?  Remains to be seen. The league says they've moved closer, but to be honest, their offer seems like the initial offer.  If they DID offer less, I can understand why that soured initial negotiations.

 

Salaries linked to a percentage of revenue (revenue sharing in this context) isnt favourable to the CFL (as a whole, not the owners).  Even if the NHL, it resulted in sky-rocketing salary caps.  Now, one would argue that meants league-wide revenue increased which is true but the lowest teams end up suffering because they can barely afford to make the floor.  The CFL can't afford to have their worst teams bleeding money any more than they already are.  Too much disparity between the haves and have-nots.  Salaries should be a set amount.

 

And remember, the players wanted to de-link salaries from revenue last CBA because it was better for them.  Now they want it back because it's better for them.  Too bad.

 

Players should *not* accept their low base salary, as far as the minimum goes anyway.  As many others have said, an increase in the cap will benefit the richest or most in-demand players.  It wont trickle down to the grunts or the majority of players.  The players should be more interested in increasing minimums than making sure the star QB gets a raise.  So yes, there should be and will be a minimum-wage increase.

 

Who said anything about players having a second job?  Thats not relevent at all. 

 

Im sure some players saved their money.  But even in bigger leagues like the NHL, there were players would were feeling the pinch.  We're talking millionaires here.  I own the house I can afford.  Wealthier people usually dont have the same house or car.  People live to their means.  So these guys are coming here to work and likely need their cheques.

 

The PA has already negotiated against itself.  There is no reason for the CFL to take any different approach other than to say "our last offer was our final offer". 

LOL...gotta love Bob's comment:

 

Bob Irving @BobIrvingCJOB

Come on CFL and CFL-Pa. What are you waiting for. At least get together and share dialogue. I have a game to do Monday-I think!!

I guess if the PA really wanted to embarrass the league they could go on strike at about 8pm on Monday.  Bombers and Argos walk off half way through the game. 

So, if I have this correct:

- Players don't deserve revenue sharing because this is a little league compared to NFL/NHL/NBA/whatever baseball is

- Players should accept their low base salaries because it's a small league, and they have nowhere else to play

- Players really get paid more because they have another job in the offseason

- Players have probably wasted all their money from the previous season (oh nos!!!1 but what about that supplementary income?!) - so therefore in a month they'll be begging to come back and play

Just looking at  things from a different perspective.

 

Now, I'm not saying the PA's offer isn't ridiculous, because it is, and it's stupid they aren't trying to negotiate - but I also know if they concede anything during negotiations the league will take advantage of that, and I believe that is why Flory is standing so firm in that.    How much they would?  Remains to be seen. The league says they've moved closer, but to be honest, their offer seems like the initial offer.  If they DID offer less, I can understand why that soured initial negotiations.

Revenue sharing is irrelevant.  It is a formula for calculating the number for overall payroll.  It is not the only formula.  There are other ways of reaching the same number, including simply stating the number (what the CFL wants to do).  The players think linking to revenue is smart because they expect revenue to go up.  I'm not sure why they think that.  Outside of Hamilton is there any reason to expect an increase in revenue?  The numbers for the TV deal are set for the next 5 years.  They won't move.  Gate is likely to drop here in Winnipeg - a decrease in revenue.  Ottawa will add to the number of teams generating revenue, but in terms of revenue generated per team they will very likely bring the average down.

 

I know why the CFL isn't interested - they want cost certainty.

 

I have no idea why the PA is so determined to push this - it is not the great lottery win they think it is.  The CFLPA is really out of touch with what is going on in the league.  Also out of touch with a calculator.

 

"Deserve" is also irrelevant.  It separates economic reality from happy fantasy.  Ryan Lucas lost the use of his knee and the ability to play for the rest of the season.  Does he "deserve" any less than Phillip Hunt, who also tore his ACL with the Philadelphia Eagles?  Of course not.  The economic reality is that CFL teams do not create enough profit to shift that profit over to players.  Not at the level the PA is thinking.

 

The PA wants to share in the revenue because they are partners.  Well any partner I had would also share the costs.  Revenue - costs = profits (loss).  The CFL has to deal with the entire equation.  The PA only wants in on the good part.

 

And I still want the players to get more money.

I guess if the PA really wanted to embarrass the league they could go on strike at about 8pm on Monday.  Bombers and Argos walk off half way through the game. 

 

Them walking off at half time would also be a big FU to the fans who showed up to the game, not the smartest thing to do. 

 

The other thing is, how many vets are going to be playing monday? i'd assume not that many