I don't create threads very often but I was kind of missing a good ol' post-game thread.

The title of the thread sums up my take on last night's game. Going from a Sunday game that went about as far into overtime that you can get to a Friday match against a high powered Calgary offense. This wasn't going to be easy. I'm not going to say that we win this game otherwise, but a lot of what I saw can be attributed to this.

Everyone, to a man, was a half step behind. First few drives looked like we were trying to conserve energy. That was embarrassing, particularly our first defensive effort. At a point though, they all realized they have to give more if this game was going to stay close.

That said, they were not able to overcome their physical limitations..and that really exposed that we are not a great team. Great teams have enough talent that they will find a way.

The Good

Our defensive front seven has continued to be a force. There is a lot of talent in this group. We had their run game bottled up and they were making life difficult for VA.

Major Williams, to me, was the only DB out there that played well enough. He's a rookie though, and in the CFL you are going to get beat every once in a while.

Our offensive line, I thought, had a solid night minus the last few drives when the game was pretty much out of reach (and one player that I'll get to). They were going against a very good Calgary defensive line. I'm sure some will bite my head off for this but I thought that Wallace even did a fairly good job at RT. I haven't watched the replays or watch every play after the fact. But the plays I watched him I thought he was holding his own.

Demski and Oliveira were the highlights for me. When they are put into situations to play to their strengths, they can be very good. I just don't think this happens enough.

It's hard to say that Dru Brown was good, but I think he's being put in a tough spot. As was brought up by @JuranBoldenRules in another thread, his options are all within 20 yards with DBs and linebackers all over the place within it. I think for the most part he's making the right reads. But he didn't have many open receivers to throw to.

The Bad

Offensive playcalling has to be number one for me. We have to put Brady in a position to make plays. We aren't. He is our workhorse. If anyone is going to thrive on a short week it is going to be him. But no, we continue to put him out wide for some reason. And we are running too many plays that are sending him east-west. That is not his game. Anytime we had him going up the middle tonight he was making something of it.

This will be Stanley Bryant's last year. He is a shadow of his former self. Missing his block left, right and center. When Brox is healthy I'd say we line him up at LT and move on with Bryant.

Defensive backs. A step slow tonight. Showed in their ability to tackle. Showed in their ability to adjust to the ball in the air. I get the feeling that Moxey is playing hurt. He refuses to do anything that requires making a play on the ball. It's pretty embarrassing. Nichols, for being a smaller guy, cannot be slow, and cannot be slow to react. I'm not counting him out completely but it isn't looking good. Holm had a terrible game and just didn't seem to be himself. The short week did a number on this group IMO.

I thought the receivers had a similar problem to the DBs. We rely so much on Pokey Wilson and Tim White to get separation. They couldn't last night, and I think that lead to many of the interceptions. They didn't have enough and made the Calgary DBs look very good. As has been brought up elsewhere, we need some different types of receivers that can make plays in different ways.

Special teams...half step too slow..was all of the difference. Also the 57 yard FG call when our defense was rolling and we could pin them deep. Hated that.

3DownNation

Tommy Condell defends Winnipeg's lack of late-game carrie...

The Winnipeg Blue Bombers went away from their best player when their recent game against the Calgary Stampeders was on the line, a decision offensive coordinator Tommy Condell doesn’t appear to regre

This interview brings to mind the quote, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak, and remove all doubt."

He attributes Brady's big run to the WRs blocking downfield (LOL), takes general responsibility while saying he always does that, without taking any specific responsibility. Then chalks up the offence's issues to ball security, which he says he can fix in practice.

I haven't seen a great block from a WR on a run play all year. I've seen a lot of low focus, low effort downfield, though. The OL get nasty when they manage to get downfield, but not most of the WRs. Corcoran is solid blocking; Demski, as always, that's about it. I mean, Wilson and White are two of the lightest starters in the league, but neither has the grit that Dressler and the like had. The WRs get downfield and, at best, look to get in the way of tacklers.

Ball security has been an issue, but it's far from the primary issue. Catching has been as much an issue as ball security, maybe more. Not to mention the fact that we consistently layer routes over each other in the same area, short of the first down marker, seem to have no red zone play call, half the time don't have a check down, don't have passing concepts set up to get the ball deep, not to mention constantly underusing and poorly using Brady. He takes more snaps out at WR than he gets carries, despite the fact that we are on track to cut his average receiving yardage to less than half his average over the past 3 years.

His response isn't as toxic and tone deaf as Hogan's was last year, but it is pretty poor for a guy clearly trying to be more political in response than anything. If Brown et al don't carry him hard and quickly, the offence is gonna be getting booed off the field on a regular basis.

23 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

I mean, Demski has been the only reliable WR for us catching the ball. After that, Wilson has been by far the least reliable. He had more drops in 1 game then any one else has this season. For catch security, I'd put Nield handily above White. White has benefited a lot from screen passes and easy catches, whereas Nield's catches have come consistently in the first-down range downfield.

Nield isn't being used well at that. He's basically getting the looks that we previously used with Woli and Clercius despite playing in the slot.

Nield isn't actually a big physical WR, he just looks like it next to our motley crue of mini WRs. Clercius and Demski are really the only ones capable of running violently and punishing defenders a little on breaking tackles.

This is why Daniels is such a waste. 6'6 270, and plays no power. He should be on the PR; I'd have Nield serve as the backup, and use MCI out of the TE spot we've been using Daniels. He still isn't polished enough to run with anywhere near his power potential, but he can at least push forward when tackled and brings speed. Not to mention upside. MCI needs to be used to develop significantly more, which made his lack of use in preseason so frustrating.

We need to go out and get some WRs with physicality. Imp or NI. Guys who have a basic idea of what to do vs zone, man, when the QB is pressured, etc. We sure as hell can't seem to coach that worth a damn anymore.

Yeah...daniels needs some PR time..and MCI needs more use..he not gonna develop by 2 reps a game..he has improved a lot since rookie yr..and with his skillset and size..imagine what he could be if we put time and effort into him?

Clercius as a sure handed guy to convert will help...prob best pure "hands" on the team and hes strong as fack! We need to use him as such..a big bodied inside guy u can trust..aid in run game and if ignored will hurt teams

Singer and or Womack need to be added to see how that changes the dynamics of our offence...We know Singer can stretch field and is good on intermediate routes and has good hands.. and is fast..Womack intruiges as he is 6 feet tall...but thick as hell and could see him being a big after the catch guy hard to take down...and the search even if they produce shoukdnt end there..we need that big physical battle winner...especially when games start to really matter

18 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

3DownNation

Tommy Condell defends Winnipeg's lack of late-game carrie...

The Winnipeg Blue Bombers went away from their best player when their recent game against the Calgary Stampeders was on the line, a decision offensive coordinator Tommy Condell doesn’t appear to regre

This interview brings to mind the quote, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak, and remove all doubt."

He attributes Brady's big run to the WRs blocking downfield (LOL), takes general responsibility while saying he always does that, without taking any specific responsibility. Then chalks up the offence's issues to ball security, which he says he can fix in practice.

I haven't seen a great block from a WR on a run play all year. I've seen a lot of low focus, low effort downfield, though. The OL get nasty when they manage to get downfield, but not most of the WRs. Corcoran is solid blocking; Demski, as always, that's about it. I mean, Wilson and White are two of the lightest starters in the league, but neither has the grit that Dressler and the like had. The WRs get downfield and, at best, look to get in the way of tacklers.

Ball security has been an issue, but it's far from the primary issue. Catching has been as much an issue as ball security, maybe more. Not to mention the fact that we consistently layer routes over each other in the same area, short of the first down marker, seem to have no red zone play call, half the time don't have a check down, don't have passing concepts set up to get the ball deep, not to mention constantly underusing and poorly using Brady. He takes more snaps out at WR than he gets carries, despite the fact that we are on track to cut his average receiving yardage to less than half his average over the past 3 years.

His response isn't as toxic and tone deaf as Hogan's was last year, but it is pretty poor for a guy clearly trying to be more political in response than anything. If Brown et al don't carry him hard and quickly, the offence is gonna be getting booed off the field on a regular basis.

" I thought that was the best decision for the team in order to get back into the game,” Condell told the media on Monday. “

Yeah Tommy, we know... That's the problem, you're an idiot about the run game by and large

16 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

3DownNation

Tommy Condell defends Winnipeg's lack of late-game carrie...

The Winnipeg Blue Bombers went away from their best player when their recent game against the Calgary Stampeders was on the line, a decision offensive coordinator Tommy Condell doesn’t appear to regre

This interview brings to mind the quote, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak, and remove all doubt."

He attributes Brady's big run to the WRs blocking downfield (LOL), takes general responsibility while saying he always does that, without taking any specific responsibility. Then chalks up the offence's issues to ball security, which he says he can fix in practice.

I haven't seen a great block from a WR on a run play all year. I've seen a lot of low focus, low effort downfield, though. The OL get nasty when they manage to get downfield, but not most of the WRs. Corcoran is solid blocking; Demski, as always, that's about it. I mean, Wilson and White are two of the lightest starters in the league, but neither has the grit that Dressler and the like had. The WRs get downfield and, at best, look to get in the way of tacklers.

Ball security has been an issue, but it's far from the primary issue. Catching has been as much an issue as ball security, maybe more. Not to mention the fact that we consistently layer routes over each other in the same area, short of the first down marker, seem to have no red zone play call, half the time don't have a check down, don't have passing concepts set up to get the ball deep, not to mention constantly underusing and poorly using Brady. He takes more snaps out at WR than he gets carries, despite the fact that we are on track to cut his average receiving yardage to less than half his average over the past 3 years.

His response isn't as toxic and tone deaf as Hogan's was last year, but it is pretty poor for a guy clearly trying to be more political in response than anything. If Brown et al don't carry him hard and quickly, the offence is gonna be getting booed off the field on a regular basis.

Yeah...about as out in space as what younger and osh said in the other article

On the one big bo run..the 40 yard one..eli and elsbury opened a whole JT could of ran thru and gained 15 yards...there was no receiver in site

I have yet to see this yr what a Bailey..Adams..Woli...Clercius..even Lawler has done for the run game...heck even lil Lucky was a key downfield blocker on some runs.and big yac plays by other wr's

Did we stop coaching? Was it that those guys before just knew what to do and didnt need coaching? Or is it cause we have a bunch of und er sized pansies..thats in db backfield too..

1 minute ago, 17to85 said:

" I thought that was the best decision for the team in order to get back into the game,” Condell told the media on Monday. “

Yeah Tommy, we know... That's the problem, you're an idiot about the run game by and large

Thats about as dumb as Osh comment about watching film and seeing the truth...whole load of crap..just a dumb bunch of guys running things..the new trinity..not surprising that Osh is main part of both trinities..anyone see the common denominator? I sure do

30 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

This interview brings to mind the quote, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak, and remove all doubt."

He attributes Brady's big run to the WRs blocking downfield (LOL), takes general responsibility while saying he always does that, without taking any specific responsibility. Then chalks up the offence's issues to ball security, which he says he can fix in practice.

TBF, Brady got into the endzone thanks to Wilson on that play. If you watch Brady celebrating, he points at Pokey, acknowledging him for the block. It's wasn't a physical block though, he just kind of got in the way and the defender had to go around him to try to get to Brady. Brady had also racked up huge yards by that point too so the block just allowed him to finish off the run with a TD.

15 minutes ago, Booch said:

Yeah...about as out in space as what younger and osh said in the other article

On the one big bo run..the 40 yard one..eli and elsbury opened a whole JT could of ran thru and gained 15 yards...there was no receiver in site

I have yet to see this yr what a Bailey..Adams..Woli...Clercius..even Lawler has done for the run game...heck even lil Lucky was a key downfield blocker on some runs.and big yac plays by other wr's

Did we stop coaching? Was it that those guys before just knew what to do and didnt need coaching? Or is it cause we have a bunch of und er sized pansies..thats in db backfield too..

Thats about as dumb as Osh comment about watching film and seeing the truth...whole load of crap..just a dumb bunch of guys running things..the new trinity..not surprising that Osh is main part of both trinities..anyone see the common denominator? I sure do

I think it's a combination of things with the WRs. We don't coach the minutiae remotely as well as we used to. Even the basics. But we also changed drastically the type of WR we recruit.

You look at the guys previously; we recruited good size 6'1-6'3, 205+ lbs, with marginal speed (4.6-4.7 40), but who made their bones winning 1on1 physically. You look at the WRs we won cups with; Lawler was the spry guy. But he's extremely strong in his upper body and all about winning the 1on1s. After that, Demski is the shortest guy at 5'11, and everyone is over 205.

Look at our WR core now, including the PR; we have 4 guys in the 170lbs range and 6 guys who are 6' or less. Corcoran, Clercius, and Nield are the only guys 6'+ and 200+. That's with Clercius just getting back into the lineup, and Corcoran existing as a blocker/pylon in the pass game.

This isn't just a few outliers either; we hammered the bigger, stronger type WRs back in the ships. Camp was filled with that prototype. We were pretty desperate for speed at wr back then, but now we are looking at nothing else.

We did much the same at OL, went from looking for the guys with aggression and physicality, undersized but who could be optimized, to looking for giants who run and jump like NBA players but who lack the power and grit to excel.

On the DL, we stopped looking for big, athletic, nasty DTs who could play outside some and disrupt a lot from up the middle.

Even in the secondary, we have gotten away from what brought us success. Partly due to injury, but Griffin is our only big physical outlier. Woodbey and Allen will bring more of that when healthy, but that's still a far cry from how our secondary used to break WRs will to compete with physicality. The secondary has locked in on vets, and been forced to play young guys due to injuries. When at our best, the young DBs each year pushed the level of play higher and took jobs.

Condell's words are revealing into his approach to playcalling. He's trying to put together drives philosophically (this drive we're going to run, this drive we're going to throw deep, this drive we're going to kill them with intermediate passes, this drive we're going to screen) rather than calling the best play to get the result down and distance on the next play against the opposing defence's tendencies.

His philosophy would work a lot better if we locked in personnel groups on each drive and ran tempo. At the normal pace of the game it's useless.

17 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

TBF, Brady got into the endzone thanks to Wilson on that play. If you watch Brady celebrating, he points at Pokey, acknowledging him for the block. It's wasn't a physical block though, he just kind of got in the way and the defender had to go around him to try to get to Brady. Brady had also racked up huge yards by that point too so the block just allowed him to finish off the run with a TD.

Yes, Wilson's cross face on the tackler bought Brady enough time to cut back and push in the final couple of yards. Which likely would've been down maybe at the 4 or 5 otherwise. But that was after going untouched for 30 yards. Wilson did the very least of what he should do, allowing Brady to score. If he had gotten a decent block in the first place brady doesn't need to cut back, though. The OL gets 80% of the credit, Brady gets 18%, and Wilson gets 2%.

Brady was a good teammate on that, and Wilson did enough. He's never going to be a guy who blows up a tackler with a block and cruises onto another target. But 1on1 blocking a DB doesn't require anything more than effort. If Wilson gave the smallest amount less on that play, he wouldn't accomplish anything.

The minimum expectation for WR blocking downfield here used to be soooo much higher. Frankly, you can trade off the blocking like that, but it's gotta come with all the things we don't get from our WRs today. Great catching, yac/downfield threats, extreme consistency, or explosivity. We've traded it off for nothing.

That is far from all on Wilson. And while Wilson has had a pretty rough go of late at every thing wr, its largely because he isn't a wr1 but having to fill that role.

What would be better from WR? Today's White, Wilson, and Nield, or 24/25 Schoen(stays healthy but not the same guy as before), Peak Sheed, and Peak Woli?

Wilson and Nield are young with a lot of good ball ahead of them. But Id take schoen, sheed and woli. 3 guys who will block their asses off, catch, run with physicality and who know how to play Wr at a professional level without hand-holding. They might get a bit less yards, but I think they'd make an offence much, much better.

17 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Condell's words are revealing into his approach to playcalling. He's trying to put together drives philosophically (this drive we're going to run, this drive we're going to throw deep, this drive we're going to kill them with intermediate passes, this drive we're going to screen) rather than calling the best play to get the result down and distance on the next play against the opposing defence's tendencies.

His philosophy would work a lot better if we locked in personnel groups on each drive and ran tempo. At the normal pace of the game it's useless.

definately having game dictating what should be ran or used to counter act things...no wonder at times it looks so unprepared...just throwing whatever at a wall to see if it sticks

1 hour ago, bigg jay said:

TBF, Brady got into the endzone thanks to Wilson on that play. If you watch Brady celebrating, he points at Pokey, acknowledging him for the block. It's wasn't a physical block though, he just kind of got in the way and the defender had to go around him to try to get to Brady. Brady had also racked up huge yards by that point too so the block just allowed him to finish off the run with a TD.

I think it was Eli who opened a monster hole at the line to get Brady into the 2nd level.

Condell had/has a great rapport with Zack but I don't see where he's developed one with our star running back...especially after Brady's comments after the stumps game ...I think it would be wise to let the game flow with Brady and not shelve your star player at a crucial point in the game ....That was a bull$hit move by Condell

2 hours ago, wbbfan said:

3DownNation

Tommy Condell defends Winnipeg's lack of late-game carrie...

The Winnipeg Blue Bombers went away from their best player when their recent game against the Calgary Stampeders was on the line, a decision offensive coordinator Tommy Condell doesn’t appear to regre

This interview brings to mind the quote, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak, and remove all doubt."

He attributes Brady's big run to the WRs blocking downfield (LOL), takes general responsibility while saying he always does that, without taking any specific responsibility. Then chalks up the offence's issues to ball security, which he says he can fix in practice.

I haven't seen a great block from a WR on a run play all year. I've seen a lot of low focus, low effort downfield, though. The OL get nasty when they manage to get downfield, but not most of the WRs. Corcoran is solid blocking; Demski, as always, that's about it. I mean, Wilson and White are two of the lightest starters in the league, but neither has the grit that Dressler and the like had. The WRs get downfield and, at best, look to get in the way of tacklers.

Ball security has been an issue, but it's far from the primary issue. Catching has been as much an issue as ball security, maybe more. Not to mention the fact that we consistently layer routes over each other in the same area, short of the first down marker, seem to have no red zone play call, half the time don't have a check down, don't have passing concepts set up to get the ball deep, not to mention constantly underusing and poorly using Brady. He takes more snaps out at WR than he gets carries, despite the fact that we are on track to cut his average receiving yardage to less than half his average over the past 3 years.

His response isn't as toxic and tone deaf as Hogan's was last year, but it is pretty poor for a guy clearly trying to be more political in response than anything. If Brown et al don't carry him hard and quickly, the offence is gonna be getting booed off the field on a regular basis.

True but sad.

51 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

I think it was Eli who opened a monster hole at the line to get Brady into the 2nd level.

100%.

4 hours ago, Jesse said:

And if the Bombers had kept Wheatfall instead of attempting to upgrade the position, more favouritism claims would be made.

How is letting Wheatfall sign in Hamilton & brin ging in Cobbas a third canadian receiver an upgrade?

2 minutes ago, Stickem said:

Condell had/has a great rapport with Zack but I don't see where he's developed one with our star running back...especially after Brady's comments after the stumps game ...I think it would be wise to let the game flow with Brady and not shelve your star player at a crucial point in the game ....That was a bull$hit move by Condell

But keep in mind, when Condell and Zach were in hamilton together, that lead to the worst stretch of zachs career by a long shot, and TC getting canned.

So on Tommy's comments about he did what he thought best given the situation, it was 39-30 early in the 4th, we're on the Calgary 50, Dru rolls out and throws a pick. Brady was hot, nothing wrong with running the ball there.

My take. Tommy is not back in 2027.

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

I think it was Eli who opened a monster hole at the line to get Brady into the 2nd level.

Yup

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

How is letting Wheatfall sign in Hamilton & brin ging in Cobbas a third canadian receiver an upgrade?

More like letting Dillon Mitchell lead Highway Patrol on a chase and bringing in a 3rd Canadian.

2 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

How is letting Wheatfall sign in Hamilton & brin ging in Cobbas a third canadian receiver an upgrade?

All of Wilson, White, and Neild are upgrades on Wheatfall, as I've said. Cobb was already here.

5 hours ago, wbbfan said:

3DownNation

Tommy Condell defends Winnipeg's lack of late-game carrie...

The Winnipeg Blue Bombers went away from their best player when their recent game against the Calgary Stampeders was on the line, a decision offensive coordinator Tommy Condell doesn’t appear to regre

This interview brings to mind the quote, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak, and remove all doubt."

He attributes Brady's big run to the WRs blocking downfield (LOL), takes general responsibility while saying he always does that, without taking any specific responsibility. Then chalks up the offence's issues to ball security, which he says he can fix in practice.

I haven't seen a great block from a WR on a run play all year. I've seen a lot of low focus, low effort downfield, though. The OL get nasty when they manage to get downfield, but not most of the WRs. Corcoran is solid blocking; Demski, as always, that's about it. I mean, Wilson and White are two of the lightest starters in the league, but neither has the grit that Dressler and the like had. The WRs get downfield and, at best, look to get in the way of tacklers.

Ball security has been an issue, but it's far from the primary issue. Catching has been as much an issue as ball security, maybe more. Not to mention the fact that we consistently layer routes over each other in the same area, short of the first down marker, seem to have no red zone play call, half the time don't have a check down, don't have passing concepts set up to get the ball deep, not to mention constantly underusing and poorly using Brady. He takes more snaps out at WR than he gets carries, despite the fact that we are on track to cut his average receiving yardage to less than half his average over the past 3 years.

His response isn't as toxic and tone deaf as Hogan's was last year, but it is pretty poor for a guy clearly trying to be more political in response than anything. If Brown et al don't carry him hard and quickly, the offence is gonna be getting booed off the field on a regular basis.

On Bradys 45 yrd td run, Wilson was blocking his ass off. He made a great play there. Condell isnt wrong about that, the reason Brady scored was the down field blocking by Wrs

1 minute ago, Bigblue204 said:

On Bradys 45 yrd td run, Wilson was blocking his ass off. He made a great play there. Condell isnt wrong about that, the reason Brady scored was the down field blocking by Wrs

watch the replay above, he didn’t block his ass off, he just managed to get back in the way and give brady a cut back angle. Brady was surrounded by 4 defenders, it wasn’t some bunch of down field blocking by wrs lol

3 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

watch the replay above, he didn’t block his ass off, he just managed to get back in the way and give brady a cut back angle. Brady was surrounded by 4 defenders, it wasn’t some bunch of down field blocking by wrs lol

Has Tommy heard of a stalk block? Wide receivers are historically bad blockers. because they're in space & angles are constantly changing just getting in the way is just what they do. Name me one wideout who made a million dollars leading the league putting linebackers & DB's on their ass downfield. They'll throw the odd great block if they're in a position to do that. I know Bailey, Adams & Woli were the exceptions. But that was a special group.

Edited July 28Jul 28 by SpeedFlex27

7 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

watch the replay above, he didn’t block his ass off, he just managed to get back in the way and give brady a cut back angle. Brady was surrounded by 4 defenders, it wasn’t some bunch of down field blocking by wrs lol

He did what most Wrs will do. The blocking his ass off comment came from Brady to be fair. Either way, without that blocking the chances of Brady scoring there aren't great, however the field position would have been.

Edited July 29Jul 29 by Bigblue204

3 hours ago, bigg jay said:

100%.

Can you imagine what he could do if not at death's door?