Blue Bombers -- 2025/26 Offseason -- Discussion Thread

[GCn20]

15 hours ago, Piggy 1 said:

Not to mention the Mafias belief that ZC is the best QB in the league........

All teams say that publically.

14 hours ago, wbbfan said:

no one will get a shot at qb as long as zach has a pulse and a contract 

Elgersma will get a shot if he comes up for sure. Does anyone think ZC stays healthy for all 18 games? If he does we won't have to worry about whether Elgersma got his shot in year one or not.

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Osh doesn't want a rebuild. He said that publicly. He wants to bring most players back & "tweak" the roster with minor changes. So, that means same old, same old. 

Proof? Not what I heard in his presser whatsoever.

15 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

That actually could be why he hasn't signed. 

That could be mainly why he hasn't signed for sure.

Edited 5 hours ago by GCn20

[SpeedFlex27]

5 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

 

Proof? Not what I heard in his presser whatsoever.

 

Yup, Osh said that in his presser after the playoff loss to Montreal as per Paul Friesen's story here. Someone quoted the same story it was discussed here. Osh said he didn't believe a rebuild is needed. He hoped that wouldn't happen. He just thought a tweaking was needed. Read the article.

https://winnipegsun.com/sports/fix-the-offence-bombers-collaros-oliveira-got-osheas-attention

[17to85]

I mean do we really need a top down rebuild? There's still some good pieces here, just need to add some stars which could be done in free agency... and then jetison some dead weight. 

Things aren't as dire as all that yet.

[Captain Blue]

Is there such thing as a rebuild in the CFL when 6 of 9 teams make the playoffs and most contracts are extremely short? 

Roster turnover is huge across the league. 

[bigg jay]

36 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Proof? Not what I heard in his presser whatsoever.

His exact words from his Nov 3rd media availability: 

Quote

"Do I believe in wholesale change? Never. I think what’s lead us to this point is continuity, right? So, I’ll never believe in wholesale change, but it’s pro sports, there is always some, you know. For our… for what we believe in and what we’ve witnessed, the less the better."

Around the 2:45 mark of the video, he's asked about the fans wanting major changes.

[Bigblue204]

Generally speaking....major changes lead to at least 1 yr of bad football. I think this years CGY team is the only one I've seen where it worked out extremely well...and even then they were 1 and done. 

People that are wanting major changes/rebuilds are asking for losing seasons.

[TBURGESS]

Tweaking isn't going to be enough to get back into the top teams conversation. Continuity, at this juncture, is just continuing the downward trend we've been on for the last 3 years. 

[rebusrankin]

Zach needs help but can't blame it all on Hogan. Zach is 16-14 with 34 tds passes and 31 ints over the past two years. The decline is real.

[BomberBall.]

12 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

Will Zach realize his limits and adjust his style of play?

Yeah, this is a big question I have too.  With the staff pumping his tires all the time, I doubt it will happen.  But maybe, if we had an OC he respects, that tailored a game plan to his current skill set, it could work.  I think we can all agree that there is no respect for the current OC.

[Booch]

3 hours ago, TommyClements said:

I watched the presser. My takeaways were different from some of what I read on the board. Walters all but admitted it’s time for a rebuild and set the bar high for this year by saying it can be done quickly. No pay cut for Zach, but that’s partly due to how bad the supports were around him, he said. That suggests there will be hard conversations about the OC, receivers and Oline.

He even admitted the Bombers squeaked out some wins despite playing bad football. Only quality wins were over B.C. and Hamilton. That suggests he has his eyes open.

The entire organization under achieved this year, except for maybe  Vaval and Carol in the ticket office.. It sounds like this season stung the people in charge and course correction is ahead. We will see.

ZC had good supports in and around him in 2024...and basically kinda sucked too....the concern tho is the arguing with him and Osh...basically confirms that Osh pouts and has a huge say in a lot of the crap we rostered...that has to stop now and Wlter's needs to slap on the big boy pants and say here is what u are getting for players...make it work....You dont like it...dont let the door hit u on the ass on way out...That dynamic is bad bad bad...and makes a lot of sense now....Osh needs to be the HC and thats that....

[wbbfan]

44 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

The issues with Zach are:

A) He's declining 

B -He and Management don't want to admit it

C) He's still our best option

In Walter's press conference, he was asked about Zach's deal, and he still thinks Zach is worth 600k. (He unofficially confirmed the 600k, and I assume the 350k ish gaurenteed again)

I broke down his playoff stats a couple of years ago, which were even more dismal than I expected. Here is some more fun with Zach's numbers. 

He has played 31 games in his last two seasons, and during that time, he has averaged 238 yards passing, 1 interception, and 1 touchdown per game.

14 of his 31 games have been under that average of 238 yards passing, 7/31 games have been 300 or more. With 10 games very close to his average. In 24 games out of 31, we see average, or bad Zach. And average Zach is pretty bad. 

12/31 gave had more ints than tds. 8/31 games have had more TDs than INTs.

His 2 best games of the last year skew his stats by 762 yards, 9tds and 0 INTs. If you remove his 2 best games of last year, his average per game drops to 228 yards per game, and .8 tds per game. 

If you create a split of good Zach vs Zach the rest of the time over the past 2 seasons, you get this;

Good Zach, 2134 yards, 16 tds, 4 ints in 7 games. for 304 yards per game. A full season would be 5,472 yards, 41 tds, and 10 Ints.

Common Zach, 5,250 18 tds 27 ints in the other 24 games for 218.75 yards per game. A full season of this Zach would put up 3937 yards, 13 tds, 20 ints. 

 

In 7 of Zach's last 31 games, he has been worth 600k. That is very comparable to what BLM and Rourke did this year. 

In the other 24 games Zach has played, well, you'd be better off taking Fajardo's worst 1.5-2 years. Or any other maligned QB that started in this league currently. Like MBT.

77.4% Zachs games played the past 2 seasons, he's been one of, if not the worst, starting QB in the league. 

If we fix "X", "Y", and "Z", does that mean we flip those games and see good Zach 77% of the time? Well, we didn't have the worst pass blocking OL over he past 2 years, far from the worst run game, and didn't have the worst WR core. (As dismal as the WR core has been, it has featured guys like Wilson, Demski, and Lawler over 2 seasons.) 

I don't see us having the ability to get a premium QB this year, even if we weren't locked into Zach. I think the best hope is that if we significantly improve at OC, OL, and WR, Zach will be a coin flip between league average (instead of arguably worst) and MOP. 

43 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

Generally speaking....major changes lead to at least 1 yr of bad football. I think this years CGY team is the only one I've seen where it worked out extremely well...and even then they were 1 and done. 

People that are wanting major changes/rebuilds are asking for losing seasons.

Yep, and when you see the fast turnaround without a year of bad ball, it's because of a QB change. Going from a mccheese to VAJ will flip your fortunes fast. 

[Booch]

4 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

In Walter's press conference, he was asked about Zach's deal, and he still thinks Zach is worth 600k. (He unofficially confirmed the 600k, and I assume the 350k ish gaurenteed again)

I broke down his playoff stats a couple of years ago, which were even more dismal than I expected. Here is some more fun with Zach's numbers. 

He has played 31 games in his last two seasons, and during that time, he has averaged 238 yards passing, 1 interception, and 1 touchdown per game.

14 of his 31 games have been under that average of 238 yards passing, 7/31 games have been 300 or more. With 10 games very close to his average. In 24 games out of 31, we see average, or bad Zach. And average Zach is pretty bad. 

12/31 gave had more ints than tds. 8/31 games have had more TDs than INTs.

His 2 best games of the last year skew his stats by 762 yards, 9tds and 0 INTs. If you remove his 2 best games of last year, his average per game drops to 228 yards per game, and .8 tds per game. 

If you create a split of good Zach vs Zach the rest of the time over the past 2 seasons, you get this;

Good Zach, 2134 yards, 16 tds, 4 ints in 7 games. for 304 yards per game. A full season would be 5,472 yards, 41 tds, and 10 Ints.

Common Zach, 5,250 18 tds 27 ints in the other 24 games for 218.75 yards per game. A full season of this Zach would put up 3937 yards, 13 tds, 20 ints. 

 

In 7 of Zach's last 31 games, he has been worth 600k. That is very comparable to what BLM and Rourke did this year. 

In the other 24 games Zach has played, well, you'd be better off taking Fajardo's worst 1.5-2 years. Or any other maligned QB that started in this league currently. Like MBT.

77.4% Zachs games played the past 2 seasons, he's been one of, if not the worst, starting QB in the league. 

If we fix "X", "Y", and "Z", does that mean we flip those games and see good Zach 77% of the time? Well, we didn't have the worst pass blocking OL over he past 2 years, far from the worst run game, and didn't have the worst WR core. (As dismal as the WR core has been, it has featured guys like Wilson, Demski, and Lawler over 2 seasons.) 

I don't see us having the ability to get a premium QB this year, even if we weren't locked into Zach. I think the best hope is that if we significantly improve at OC, OL, and WR, Zach will be a coin flip between league average (instead of arguably worst) and MOP. 

Yep, and when you see the fast turnaround without a year of bad ball, it's because of a QB change. Going from a mccheese to VAJ will flip your fortunes fast. 

yeah..."he's earned" his 600k....and we saw "glimpses" of what he can do....good god...Thats not glimpses of potential...its glimpses of what was....and wont be the norm.....And awesome break down...thats some fuggly assed **** for 650k....

I guess we should be ready for the JT re-up as I am sure his 18 games and 9 defensive tackles for 2025 has earned his 130k or more salary....and yes...those were his stats as a top 3 reps dlineman on the squad...let that marinate

Osh looks back at what was as does Walter's apparently....I have zero faith at moment....none....

[wbbfan]

54 minutes ago, Captain Blue said:

Is there such thing as a rebuild in the CFL when 6 of 9 teams make the playoffs and most contracts are extremely short? 

Roster turnover is huge across the league. 

Every single off-season, at least 7-8 teams retool in free agency. Full-scale rebuilds are rarer; it's more often that teams hire a new HC and we see where the mostly new roster falls. Like we will see in Ottawa this offseason. 

I think the closest thing to a rebuild we see these days is what happened in Calgary. Even BC's D was rebuilt mid-season. We've rebuilt secondaries mid-season multiple times in the last 6 seasons. 

 NI talent is hard to rebuild fast, though 1 great draft can change a lot as we've seen a few times. Ols are generally slower to build, but teams are starting to realize we don't need to be married to forcing 3-5 canadians into those spots like teams used to. 3 imp ols are becoming more common and we've seen some 4 imp lines last year. Going Imp, and heavy, allows you to build the ol much faster. WR cores build fast, it's really just QB which you get or you don't have. 

[Booch]

3 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Every single off-season, at least 7-8 teams retool in free agency. Full-scale rebuilds are rarer; it's more often that teams hire a new HC and we see where the mostly new roster falls. Like we will see in Ottawa this offseason. 

I think the closest thing to a rebuild we see these days is what happened in Calgary. Even BC's D was rebuilt mid-season. We've rebuilt secondaries mid-season multiple times in the last 6 seasons. 

 NI talent is hard to rebuild fast, though 1 great draft can change a lot as we've seen a few times. Ols are generally slower to build, but teams are starting to realize we don't need to be married to forcing 3-5 canadians into those spots like teams used to. 3 imp ols are becoming more common and we've seen some 4 imp lines last year. Going Imp, and heavy, allows you to build the ol much faster. WR cores build fast, it's really just QB which you get or you don't have. 

we could run BO...Demski..Clercius and 2 national Olineman and 2 Canadians on defence with what we have right now and be a better team if the right guys are used....thats not even factoring in going any legit FA Canadian for defence, OR drafting smart and targeting legit potential starters and not these ST only plugs...Sask started Allen who really isnt even that good....but produces well and Shay and Smith both have way better metrics and skill/upside here and if started wouldnt have hurt us at all, and would have been light yrs ahead of where they are currently, and the other net positive of that would have allowed us to start/roster another impact defender on the dline...but we'd rather go the "other" route....and play sub par guys cause Osh likes them, and they been here a while....

[wbbfan]

3 minutes ago, Booch said:

yeah..."he's earned" his 600k....and we saw "glimpses" of what he can do....good god...Thats not glimpses of potential...its glimpses of what was....and wont be the norm.....And awesome break down...thats some fuggly assed **** for 650k....

I guess we should be ready for the JT re-up as I am sure his 18 games and 9 defensive tackles for 2025 has earned his 130k or more salary....and yes...those were his stats as a top 3 reps dlineman on the squad...let that marinate

Osh looks back at what was as does Walter's apparently....I have zero faith at moment....none....

Just continuing to overpay guys for what they used to do, hoping that somehow they will recapture something that is gone. It's sad. 

Listening to Walters talk about how every personnel decision was a yelling fight with Mos makes me think maybe he will take a big stab at the old boys club. He has been whittling away guys each year, far too few and too slowly, but it has been going down. 

 I think that 1 of Jake, Kola, Kyrie, and Stan will be gone this offseason by our choice. But maybe Walters will shake loose 2 of those guys. I include Stan as Walters, "he was solid at LT," was about the harshest critique Big Stan has ever seen here. I'd much prefer to kick Stan inside and kick Kola to the curb. If we get rid of Kola and Jake, hell, we might have a chance lol. But then Mos might riot. 

I think Walters is going to go out a spend a NUT on WRS. Maybe Tim white, maybe Philpot. 

I could see Walters letting DBs walk, too. Kramdi, Holm, and Nichols at 140-150k last year was pretty crazy. Especially since JY has been one of the best at taking rookies and having them excel right away. I think 1 or 2 of those guys are gone. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

56 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

Generally speaking....major changes lead to at least 1 yr of bad football. I think this years CGY team is the only one I've seen where it worked out extremely well...and even then they were 1 and done. 

People that are wanting major changes/rebuilds are asking for losing seasons.

Calgary hasn't hosted a playoff game since 2019 and hasn't won anything since 2018.  They've been down for a long time by CFL standards, especially when Edmonton and Ottawa are so bad too.

QB play in the league is bad.

If you protect Zach and give him some receivers we could have the best offense in the league pretty quick.  It's basically Rourke, Alexander and everyone else.

Harris is consistently average, BLM and VAJ had a few good games but are terribly inconsistent.  Arbuckle and Fajardo can get you 6-7 wins.

Keep in mind all these other QB's were scrap heaped long ago.  Harris was dumped by Edmonton and Montreal 4-5 years ago and just won the Grey Cup.  

Who do you go get that gives you a better chance to win a CFL game than Collaros tomorrow?  If you're thinking you're just going to throw a rookie on the field and magic....well go back from about 1995 to 2016 and live that over.

[wbbfan]

1 minute ago, Booch said:

we could run BO...Demski..Clercius and 2 national Olineman and 2 Canadians on defence with what we have right now and be a better team if the right guys are used....thats not even factoring in going any legit FA Canadian for defence, OR drafting smart and targeting legit potential starters and not these ST only plugs...Sask started Allen who really isnt even that good....but produces well and Shay and Smith both have way better metrics and skill/upside here and if started wouldnt have hurt us at all, and would have been light yrs ahead of where they are currently, and the other net positive of that would have allowed us to start/roster another impact defender on the dline...but we'd rather go the "other" route....and play sub par guys cause Osh likes them, and they been here a while....

Man, if we did that, with a canadian Lber and DB, we'd be back to beating up teams in the trenches fast. 

[Booch]

1 minute ago, wbbfan said:

Just continuing to overpay guys for what they used to do, hoping that somehow they will recapture something that is gone. It's sad. 

Listening to Walters talk about how every personnel decision was a yelling fight with Mos makes me think maybe he will take a big stab at the old boys club. He has been whittling away guys each year, far too few and too slowly, but it has been going down. 

 I think that 1 of Jake, Kola, Kyrie, and Stan will be gone this offseason by our choice. But maybe Walters will shake loose 2 of those guys. I include Stan as Walters, "he was solid at LT," was about the harshest critique Big Stan has ever seen here. I'd much prefer to kick Stan inside and kick Kola to the curb. If we get rid of Kola and Jake, hell, we might have a chance lol. But then Mos might riot. 

I think Walters is going to go out a spend a NUT on WRS. Maybe Tim white, maybe Philpot. 

I could see Walters letting DBs walk, too. Kramdi, Holm, and Nichols at 140-150k last year was pretty crazy. Especially since JY has been one of the best at taking rookies and having them excel right away. I think 1 or 2 of those guys are gone. 

yup...the DB price has to be pared down and is a bloated amount thats not necessary.....2 of those salaries need togo..Hopefully its Kramdi and Holm...at they all free agents?

Nichols is the one tokeep as he is a leader...can play anywhere and isnt in decline....Kramdi and Holm...easily replaced at half the cost

Philpot would look good here...take some load off of Demski too and likely keep him healthy and producing at a high level...Land a legit #1 WR threat....Roll with that guy..Pokey..Demski...Philpot...Clercius possesion gritty guy....free up a import spot elsewhere

 

5 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Man, if we did that, with a canadian Lber and DB, we'd be back to beating up teams in the trenches fast. 

exactly...plus with Bailey being added to mix and allowing another import on the field...be back to2019 2021 dline terror....Bailey needs to play and develop...has all the tools...yeah people see him as a Global...but really he isnt a true Global...He was sought after as an American until it was relozed he can qualify as a Global

 

[GCn20]

7 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Man, if we did that, with a canadian Lber and DB, we'd be back to beating up teams in the trenches fast. 

Or Shay/Smith would have been exposed and we do worse. Hard to say. Lot of it predicates on the belief that 2 rookie NAT LBers were ready to start. This is completely unknown at this time and therefore not a statement of fact but of opinion.

11 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Calgary hasn't hosted a playoff game since 2019 and hasn't won anything since 2018.  They've been down for a long time by CFL standards, especially when Edmonton and Ottawa are so bad too.

QB play in the league is bad.

If you protect Zach and give him some receivers we could have the best offense in the league pretty quick.  It's basically Rourke, Alexander and everyone else.

Harris is consistently average, BLM and VAJ had a few good games but are terribly inconsistent.  Arbuckle and Fajardo can get you 6-7 wins.

Keep in mind all these other QB's were scrap heaped long ago.  Harris was dumped by Edmonton and Montreal 4-5 years ago and just won the Grey Cup.  

Who do you go get that gives you a better chance to win a CFL game than Collaros tomorrow?  If you're thinking you're just going to throw a rookie on the field and magic....well go back from about 1995 to 2016 and live that over.

Yep,,,I agree. Most here will say Elgersma the rookie, if he signs,  and champion him to start all season despite rookie QBs rarely having success. We will ruin Elgersma if we rush him.

[wbbfan]

Just now, Booch said:

yup...the DB price has to be pared down and is a bloated amount thats not necessary.....2 of those salaries need togo..Hopefully its Kramdi and Holm...at they all free agents?

Nichols is the one tokeep as he is a leader...can play anywhere and isnt in decline....Kramdi and Holm...easily replaced at half the cost

Philpot would look good here...take some load off of Demski too and likely keep him healthy and producing at a high level...Land a legit #1 WR threat....Roll with that guy..Pokey..Demski...Philpot...Clercius possesion gritty guy....free up a import spot elsewhere

 

From what I remember from the post earlier, all 3 are pending FAs. 

Nichols is certainly the one I want to keep the most, but I also think he is the one who will want to win the most and be valued the most around the league. 

 Yeah, it'd be a great luxury to get him here. I actually think as a WR the value on his deal could be pretty good. 

[GCn20]

25 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Every single off-season, at least 7-8 teams retool in free agency. Full-scale rebuilds are rarer; it's more often that teams hire a new HC and we see where the mostly new roster falls. Like we will see in Ottawa this offseason. 

I think the closest thing to a rebuild we see these days is what happened in Calgary. Even BC's D was rebuilt mid-season. We've rebuilt secondaries mid-season multiple times in the last 6 seasons. 

 NI talent is hard to rebuild fast, though 1 great draft can change a lot as we've seen a few times. Ols are generally slower to build, but teams are starting to realize we don't need to be married to forcing 3-5 canadians into those spots like teams used to. 3 imp ols are becoming more common and we've seen some 4 imp lines last year. Going Imp, and heavy, allows you to build the ol much faster. WR cores build fast, it's really just QB which you get or you don't have. 

If we go shopping in FA, and draft well, we can be right back in the mix next year. 

[Booch]

1 minute ago, GCn20 said:

Or Shay/Smith would have been exposed and we do worse. Hard to say. Lot of it predicates on the belief that 2 rookie NAT LBers were ready to start. This is completely unknown at this time and therefore not a statement of fact but of opinion.

only way to find out tho...is give them a chance for a game or 2...lord knows we give craptacular guys seasons worth of chances

Shay was regarded as the most pro ready LB in the draft...Smith not far behind.... Yet Ham found success with raw rookie....BC as well withbtheir guys the last few yrs got a lot of play time...and Nat...Import....doesnt matter.....Shay is a national by the wide range in the determination...he's as American as American as can be..

I can see the argument with Canadians coming in from the CIS....Not Canadians who played NCAA and or Prep school before that...they are light yrs ahead of the curve as the CIS guys

Regardless...Osh wont or rarely gives Imports reps as the back-up ....and thats a big reason why we roster and play walking wounded as the actual backups get zero play time...so he has no clue what they can do, let alone if they have the mental part down....

1 minute ago, GCn20 said:

If we go shopping in FA, and draft well, we can be right back in the mix next year. 

true true....that being said...we need to dump some baggage...and be open to our ratio and deviate from how its been for basically...10 yrs now

And Osh cant have a hissy fit of Walters says Thomas..Kramdi..Kolo...Wilson...and others aren't being sked back...and guys like T.Jones are not the default starter

 

[Colin Unger]

Am i safe to assume that we didn't qualify this season for one of the bonus draft picks for being amount the top 2 teams in overall Canadian snaps?

[TBURGESS]

If we keep the overpay contracts like Collaros, how can we afford to upgrade the team around them? 

[rebusrankin]

If you could land Philpot, a trio of Philpot, Demski and Clercius starting, 2 on the OL and 2 on D would likely make us better.