Bombers at Stumps GDT

[Booch]

HC takes input...but he has last say and essentially sets lineup and roster...and essentially declares who he wants to see with player use and reps 

As @SpeedFlex27 said...basically signs off on the game day roster. He dictates who he wants out there based on gameplan they came up with. 

Good HC allows for most part his coordinators to come up with it and may offer input, but they give them essentially full creative control of it (and we do that here) but they control who is used to deploy it...

All in game decisions...strategic...player performance (pulling a guy...injury replacement etc) is head coach...he is in total control of game day...and it's also up to him to get in ears of coordinators to make changes and adjustments when things are going off rails...in the end...he wears it

This isn't assumption or opinion...its from being in the room...being in team mtgs as both a player and a coach...seeing it first hand...and it's basically like that everywhere

[17to85]

8 hours ago, Goalie said:

He’s been the next one for 6 7 years. He’s not that guy. Eli hill is a weird hill to die on. Dude looked like **** in pre season. 

And kolankowski has looked like **** in the regular season for a few years... all people want is to see if a change makes a difference because the starter is not good enough 

[GCn20]

13 hours ago, Tracker said:

I have been watching O'Shea. Last season and the two previous seasons he kept fielding sub-par players (like Kolankowski when Tui Eli was available and has LOST three consecutive Grey Cup games when they were emiinently winnable. Winning big in the regular season is all well and good, but it counts for squat in the post-season.

Can you say that our roster decisions took us out of any of those games? Nope you can't because that is a fictional narrative. The teams we fielded could have won all of those games if they flip a handful of plays they erred on. I am not suggesting roster decisions can't make things tougher to win, they can. However, whatever lineup we fielded in any of those games had the opportunity and ability to win those games. The fact they didn't is because at key moments of the game they did not make a play they should have/could have made.

8 hours ago, Booch said:

HC takes input...but he has last say and essentially sets lineup and roster...and essentially declares who he wants to see with player use and reps 

As @SpeedFlex27 said...basically signs off on the game day roster. He dictates who he wants out there based on gameplan they came up with. 

Good HC allows for most part his coordinators to come up with it and may offer input, but they give them essentially full creative control of it (and we do that here) but they control who is used to deploy it...

All in game decisions...strategic...player performance (pulling a guy...injury replacement etc) is head coach...he is in total control of game day...and it's also up to him to get in ears of coordinators to make changes and adjustments when things are going off rails...in the end...he wears it

This isn't assumption or opinion...its from being in the room...being in team mtgs as both a player and a coach...seeing it first hand...and it's basically like that everywhere

 Pierce, Hall, and Younger have all stated that they tell O'Shea who they want in the lineup and that almost always he makes it happen except for moves made to appease ratio.  They meet early in the week to discuss lineups based on new injuries, and then work in collaboration on lineups. Of course, MOS has final say but he is not forcing players on any of his coordinators unless ratio has to do with it. Hall even stated that more often than not we are forcing players on him, and he almost always gets it done for us.

Before either of you say I am licking MOS boots, I'm not. Last game his coaching was terrible and is in dire need of improvement. I just don't think it was for the reasons being thrown around this forum. My problem with his coaching was that he did not have the team we fielded adequately motivated and prepared to compete. That is also equally on the coordinators who are very conveniently being overlooked as gross underperformers last game. Dickenson's crew took them behind the woodshed and taught Hogan and Younger lessons. Couple that with a group of players who went on bye week 3 hours too early and we got what we got. I don't care what roster moves we make for that game the result would have been similar because only a handful of guys showed up prepared to play, and the gameplans from our coordinators were bunk.

Edited 5 hours ago by GCn20

[17to85]

23 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Can you say that our roster decisions took us out of any of those games? Nope you can't because that is a fictional narrative. The teams we fielded could have won all of those games if they flip a handful of plays they erred on. I am not suggesting roster decisions can't make things tougher to win, they can. However, whatever lineup we fielded in any of those games had the opportunity and ability to win those games. The fact they didn't is because at key moments of the game they did not make a play they should have/could have made.

And if we dressed some healthier receivers in 2023 maybe they make those handful of plays... maybe if an injured collaros is taken out of the game last year they makes some plays to win... 

 

Roster decisions have 100% impacted the teams ability to make the plays necessary to win the tight games. That's the whole point! When it's that close you can't afford to handicap yourself. Again they got away with a lot more in the past because they had a very strong and very deep roster, but the depth has been eroded and and starters are aging and becoming less consistent. Time is coming quickly when the roster management problems become more and more of an issue.

[Booch]

39 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Can you say that our roster decisions took us out of any of those games? Nope you can't because that is a fictional narrative. The teams we fielded could have won all of those games if they flip a handful of plays they erred on. I am not suggesting roster decisions can't make things tougher to win, they can. However, whatever lineup we fielded in any of those games had the opportunity and ability to win those games. The fact they didn't is because at key moments of the game they did not make a play they should have/could have made.

 Pierce, Hall, and Younger have all stated that they tell O'Shea who they want in the lineup and that almost always he makes it happen except for moves made to appease ratio.  They meet early in the week to discuss lineups based on new injuries, and then work in collaboration on lineups. Of course, MOS has final say but he is not forcing players on any of his coordinators unless ratio has to do with it. Hall even stated that more often than not we are forcing players on him, and he almost always gets it done for us.

Before either of you say I am licking MOS boots, I'm not. Last game his coaching was terrible and is in dire need of improvement. I just don't think it was for the reasons being thrown around this forum. My problem with his coaching was that he did not have the team we fielded adequately motivated and prepared to compete. That is also equally on the coordinators who are very conveniently being overlooked as gross underperformers last game. Dickenson's crew took them behind the woodshed and taught Hogan and Younger lessons. Couple that with a group of players who went on bye week 3 hours too early and we got what we got. I don't care what roster moves we make for that game the result would have been similar because only a handful of guys showed up prepared to play, and the gameplans from our coordinators were bunk.

I agree on the bolded....and that happens often, and when the coords are dropping a duece it's on Osh to get in their ear....blast them....over rule...whatever, and he fails not to....unless.....the poor results is a result of him actually over ruling already....possible??....who knows...but there is a major disconnect many times with out in game coaching/communication...and it kills us

I do know coaches get input but the notion he gives them exactly what they want I have doubts and never have heard that....and the coaches are not gonna publically say they wished they got other players to use....wont happen...but they will say all the things are rosey stuff tho...same with players.....well most

The part about the ratio tho...is accurate and some his decisions on how he uses it hinders the roster and whom the coords can use....

Osh is a good coach for sure...leader of men maybe moreso....but have some doubts/questions about his X nd O ability and making in game decisions...or lack there off.....he has major flaws that have been glossed over and we have overcome with a real good roster....we dont have that now..

Edited 5 hours ago by Booch

[Colin Unger]

On 2025-07-07 at 8:49 PM, bigg jay said:

I've heard him say that but I don't know if I buy it.

Biggie's injury forced their hand at linebacker - even if they kept him, he's still out so a replacement was needed either way.  There's always turn over in the secondary (Alford, Rose, Houston for example) so moving on from BA & Ford just seems like regular occurrence rather than a plan.  And like I said, they already had internal replacements so it's pretty easy to do when you have 20 other guys to choose from. 

If there's a plan, why does it include leaving the DL so thin that we can barely spell off the few guys we do roster on gameday?

Hardrick, jeffcoat, wolitarsky, Darvin Adams, Harris come to mind as players we allowed to move on or didn’t offer on in previous seasons. I imagine not all of Bryant, Nuefeld and Thomas will be back next season. 

[Booch]

5 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

And if we dressed some healthier receivers in 2023 maybe they make those handful of plays... maybe if an injured collaros is taken out of the game last year they makes some plays to win... 

 

Roster decisions have 100% impacted the teams ability to make the plays necessary to win the tight games. That's the whole point! When it's that close you can't afford to handicap yourself. Again they got away with a lot more in the past because they had a very strong and very deep roster, but the depth has been eroded and and starters are aging and becoming less consistent. Time is coming quickly when the roster management problems become more and more of an issue.

roster decisions and dumb strategy cost us 3 cups...plain and simple no ifs ands or buts....some thos handful of plays flipped could have been acheived likely with healthy and proper players...also....You can also say the teams that beat us had plays they would have liked back too even tho they won...so the reasoning of if this...or that would have went the other way we would have won holds no weight....and a lot of times the idea of "if this would of went this way" or "that wouldn't have happened" is a direct result of what other team did...or didnt do....

We were out coached...out rostered...and out played for most part in 3 losses....in all 3 dumb decisions were made...alot of that due to roster and or lack of trust/experience in any player outside a starter....no way to sugar coat it....And looking seeming unprepared and having a poor scheme....again thats on coaching....and the non-ability to facilitate any adjustments, or player subbing and just continuing to try and pound square pegs in round holes ....well that didnt help matters either...and again....coaching...Coaching and coaching decisions leading up to the games were our demise

2 minutes ago, Colin Unger said:

Hardrick, jeffcoat, wolitarsky, Darvin Adams, Harris come to mind as players we allowed to move on or didn’t offer on in previous seasons. I imagine not all of Bryant, Nuefeld and Thomas will be back next season. 

Hardrick chased money and what it would have took to keep him was not worth it...so that hand was played for us

Jeffcoat they lowballed and figured he would accept...he didnt...and they had no backup plan or player in waiting to cover...and we still haven't covered it

Harris was in decline...and had become a bit of an issue...plus it was play BO and lose him.....so making the actual correct move there gets no applause from me...thats expected

Only one that really was a bit shocking was Woli....and again...we havnt covered that position with any depth whatsoever...and a long term injury....god help us of 2 being utterly screwed

 

[Colin Unger]

10 minutes ago, Booch said:

roster decisions and dumb strategy cost us 3 cups...plain and simple no ifs ands or buts....some thos handful of plays flipped could have been acheived likely with healthy and proper players...also....You can also say the teams that beat us had plays they would have liked back too even tho they won...so the reasoning of if this...or that would have went the other way we would have won holds no weight....and a lot of times the idea of "if this would of went this way" or "that wouldn't have happened" is a direct result of what other team did...or didnt do....

We were out coached...out rostered...and out played for most part in 3 losses....in all 3 dumb decisions were made...alot of that due to roster and or lack of trust/experience in any player outside a starter....no way to sugar coat it....And looking seeming unprepared and having a poor scheme....again thats on coaching....and the non-ability to facilitate any adjustments, or player subbing and just continuing to try and pound square pegs in round holes ....well that didnt help matters either...and again....coaching...Coaching and coaching decisions leading up to the games were our demise

Hardrick chased money and what it would have took to keep him was not worth it...so that hand was played for us

Jeffcoat they lowballed and figured he would accept...he didnt...and they had no backup plan or player in waiting to cover...and we still haven't covered it

Harris was in decline...and had become a bit of an issue...plus it was play BO and lose him.....so making the actual correct move there gets no applause from me...thats expected

Only one that really was a bit shocking was Woli....and again...we havnt covered that position with any depth whatsoever...and a long term injury....god help us of 2 being utterly screwed

 

I’m not making a statement on whether these were all wise moves or not.  I’m just following up with my statements that Walter’s has stated that he had a plan to let some older vets go each year rather than all at once.  I don’t think there’s much of an argument to be made that this hasn’t been happening it just has happened slower than much of us would like. It’s true likely that if Bighill didn’t have constant injury problems he wouldn’t have been replaced.  But that’s just how it often goes. 
 

So far you can’t really question the wolitarsky move as he hasn’t yet been healthy enough to suit up for Hamilton.  
 

Oh and Johnny Augustine is another aging player we replaced.  Basically Hamilton paid for Johnny and we got a good young running back from them as a throw in on the trade for the global pick. Johnny sure did look good two weeks ago though. It’s nice to see these “Team Ted” players doing well in Hamilton. 

[GCn20]

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

And if we dressed some healthier receivers in 2023 maybe they make those handful of plays... maybe if an injured collaros is taken out of the game last year they makes some plays to win... 

 

Roster decisions have 100% impacted the teams ability to make the plays necessary to win the tight games. That's the whole point! When it's that close you can't afford to handicap yourself. Again they got away with a lot more in the past because they had a very strong and very deep roster, but the depth has been eroded and and starters are aging and becoming less consistent. Time is coming quickly when the roster management problems become more and more of an issue.

The roster we had on the field was capable of winning. Maybe if my aunt had nuts she'd be my uncle is not a coherent argument to make. I will agree that Collaros not being taken out MIGHT have been a mistake, but one that can not be definitively proven. Maybe we put in Dolegala or Wilson for the remainder and they throw 3 INTs and we lose by a larger margin. We will never know. I do agree that depth has been depleted somewhat, and that in part is what the crux of my argument is. We have people sitting here saying that our depth is depleted but we should play our depth anyway because they are better than who the coaches have identified as starters. Pick a lane, the argument can't work both ways.

[Goalie]

3 hours ago, 17to85 said:

And kolankowski has looked like **** in the regular season for a few years... all people want is to see if a change makes a difference because the starter is not good enough 

But who the **** replaces that guy with a guy who has looked worse at center every chance he’s gotten. Honestly. 7 years of Eli is the next one. Eli this. He’s not some fresh faced rookie. He’s a ******* Vet in reality a vet backup.  Didn’t realize it was kolo under throwing balls and interceptions tho. Cuz oline looked pretty great our week 1 with a different QB. 

[GCn20]

2 minutes ago, Goalie said:

But who the **** replaces that guy with a guy who has looked worse at center every chance he’s gotten. Honestly. 7 years of Eli is the next one. Eli this. He’s not some fresh faced rookie. He’s a ******* Vet in reality a vet backup.  Didn’t realize it was kolo under throwing balls and interceptions tho. Cuz oline looked pretty great our week 1 with a different QB. 

Our OL sucked last game, as did our DL, secondary, QB and STs. Last week's game had nothing to do with roster decisions. Our whole roster sucked and so did our coaching and evidently locker room leadership.

Edited 3 hours ago by GCn20

[GCn20]

2 hours ago, Booch said:

I agree on the bolded....and that happens often, and when the coords are dropping a duece it's on Osh to get in their ear....blast them....over rule...whatever, and he fails not to....unless.....the poor results is a result of him actually over ruling already....possible??....who knows...but there is a major disconnect many times with out in game coaching/communication...and it kills us

I do know coaches get input but the notion he gives them exactly what they want I have doubts and never have heard that....and the coaches are not gonna publically say they wished they got other players to use....wont happen...but they will say all the things are rosey stuff tho...same with players.....well most

The part about the ratio tho...is accurate and some his decisions on how he uses it hinders the roster and whom the coords can use....

Osh is a good coach for sure...leader of men maybe moreso....but have some doubts/questions about his X nd O ability and making in game decisions...or lack there off.....he has major flaws that have been glossed over and we have overcome with a real good roster....we dont have that now..

I agree that given our current roster it is irresponsible to not use every advantage we can such as IMP with national designation rules etc. We have discovered that we are a top notch team as far as overall roster but we certainly aren't above the pack. It's time for MOS to use any and all avenues available to field the best roster possible. I have never suggested that roster decisions don't have some impact on our ability to win. Of course they do. However, over the past few years we still should have won any game we lost with the lineup we had if they play to their potential. This year we may need more than that. I am hoping this loss last week will begin to convince our coaches and GMs that our roster needs to be optimized both outside of game day and inside of game day.

No one will ever convince me that sitting Jake Thomas, as one example, will win us more games but given what we saw last week it may be time to hedge our bets and use the roster to it's full optimization. Of FAR more importance to our success, we need to close the country club atmosphere and get back to work.

Edited 3 hours ago by GCn20

[Goalie]

I think after seeing how many snaps a guy like Thomas is getting you could make the argument he’s hurting the team. No sacks. No tackles. No stats. No nothing. Those 3 DL sets with Jake Korn and prob Willie most times gets eaten alive. It’s sad watching honestly. Some of these guys need to be told it’s time to go. Thanks for the services and best of luck in future endeavours. It’s not just based on 1 loss, it’s based on trends from the last couple of seasons now. No way should Thomas be getting as many reps as he does. No way.  I can’t see how they look at the film and go yup all good there. And if they do go yup he’s doing what he’s supposed to getting owned every play then Walters and wade need to step in unless all 3 have become complacent. That is possible. Rolling in the dough could do that. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Goalie

[17to85]

52 minutes ago, Goalie said:

But who the **** replaces that guy with a guy who has looked worse at center every chance he’s gotten

Citation needed... cause Eli hasn't gotten many reps at centre. And forget snaps, he hasn't looked anywhere as useless blocking as kolankowski has. I'll live with the occasional iffy snap vs. No pocket for a qb.

[Goalie]

Maybe it’s the QB holding the ball longer than 3 seconds. 

[17to85]

58 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

The roster we had on the field was capable of winning.

Were they? The offense was beyond useless the last 3 Grey cups in a row. Is that because they just didn't play well or was that because it was a poor roster make up for the opponents? 

2023 especially we dressed 3 receivers who could barely move... how is that putting a capable team on the field? Don't let the score fool you. That it was close is a minor miracle considering how useless the offense was.

Hurt collaros in 2022 and 2024 isn't putting a roster capable of winning out there either. Most games come down to a handful of plays.... give yourself the best chance to make those plays. That includes depth for every position,  not relying on injured players etc etc.

[Booch]

49 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I agree that given our current roster it is irresponsible to not use every advantage we can such as IMP with national designation rules etc. We have discovered that we are a top notch team as far as overall roster but we certainly aren't above the pack. It's time for MOS to use any and all avenues available to field the best roster possible. I have never suggested that roster decisions don't have some impact on our ability to win. Of course they do. However, over the past few years we still should have won any game we lost with the lineup we had if they play to their potential. This year we may need more than that. I am hoping this loss last week will begin to convince our coaches and GMs that our roster needs to be optimized both outside of game day and inside of game day.

No one will ever convince me that sitting Jake Thomas, as one example, will win us more games but given what we saw last week it may be time to hedge our bets and use the roster to it's full optimization. Of FAR more importance to our success, we need to close the country club atmosphere and get back to work.

We need to do a better job of coaching and player management insitu...aka during the game...That's where we been getting owned alot...we put together a game plan and roster...and much like how we break camp it is what it is and will just bang our heads against the wall trying to make it work..and putting guys in who aren't getting it done...and make minimal if any adjustments...its like they don't want to admit fault or failure by any tweeks and adjustments

[wbbfan]

10 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Citation needed... cause Eli hasn't gotten many reps at centre. And forget snaps, he hasn't looked anywhere as useless blocking as kolankowski has. I'll live with the occasional iffy snap vs. No pocket for a qb.

Snapping to the pistol is much easier than the shot gun as well. The ultra deep snaps aren't as common as they used to be. 

[Booch]

8 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Citation needed... cause Eli hasn't gotten many reps at centre. And forget snaps, he hasn't looked anywhere as useless blocking as kolankowski has. I'll live with the occasional iffy snap vs. No pocket for a qb.

If he got to play as the guy...the snaps would be just fine...and when has he got the chance to start and finish a game to see if there is any difference...he hasn't...and it's not like he hadn't earned it in practice like some people here claim as to why guys are stuck in the back seat...there no way to prove or earn anything in the practice format in todays practice...none...it needs to be shown in live reps...

[17to85]

And like I said,  if Eli isn't better... then time to move on and find someone else because kolankowski for my money is the teams weakest starter and needs to be replaced 2 years ago. If that has to be by an American so be it, but let's stop wasting time on a guy like that.

[HardCoreBlue]

15 hours ago, Noeller said:

I don't think you'll get an accurate answer here. It's gonna be very biased on both sides. You'd have to actually be in the bombers room to know. 

Fair statement but i’m guessing most us are sometimes ‘guilty’ of bias at work, at home and in public, i.e., at times not being in the ‘room’ when decisions are talked about and made to confirm/know what’s going on so we use other approaches to better understand, some good some not so good.

[Noeller]

23 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Fair statement but i’m guessing most us are sometimes ‘guilty’ of bias at work, at home and in public, i.e., at times not being in the ‘room’ when decisions are talked about and made to confirm/know what’s going on so we use other approaches to better understand, some good some not so good.

Ya I'm just saying I wouldn't trust anyone's opinion here. As far as I know, nobody posting on here is in the room every week when they make the decisions so we have no real accurate answer to the original question. 

[bigg jay]

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

Ya I'm just saying I wouldn't trust anyone's opinion here. As far as I know, nobody posting on here is in the room every week when they make the decisions so we have no real accurate answer to the original question. 

I don't think anyone needs to be in the room for this question.  It was in regards to football in general, not specifically the Bombers.  People like Booch who have played/coached at fairly high levels are more than qualified to answer a question like that.