Blue Bombers - 2025 Regular Season - Discussion Thread

[bigg jay]

It's not just this year though - he disappeared for the last third of the season in 2024 before having himself a hell of a GC.  Is a team going to spend big money based on one great game 2 seasons ago? 

There are only  2 ways I can see him get that kind of money at this point of his career - a bonus heavy contract or one loaded with marketing money.

[Goalie]

Look at the jets. Old and slow. Time for the bombers to move on from old and slow players past their best before date. Shouldn’t be hard to find an end to replace Willie with. 

[GCn20]

15 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Funny how the same thing happned last year. It was February 4th  before Osh named Hogan as OC. 

Great...let's wait until then to declare he is doing the same thing.

12 hours ago, Mark H. said:

I agree. And they'll also look at who he was playing with this year.

More importantly what we were asking him to do. We are all blaming WJ for playing the defensive role his DC asked of him. We were using WJ as a DE/LBer hybrid in pretty much every 4 man front we ran and then asking him to take on every double team in a 3 man front. There was little chance he was going to do the things a DE gets recognition for. It's fine to drop him out on occasion to keep the offence off balance but we were doing it almost every play and then he just becomes an oversized and slow (by LBer standards) glorified LBer.

Edited 11 hours ago by GCn20

[wbbfan]

10 hours ago, bigg jay said:

It's not just this year though - he disappeared for the last third of the season in 2024 before having himself a hell of a GC.  Is a team going to spend big money based on one great game 2 seasons ago? 

There are only  2 ways I can see him get that kind of money at this point of his career - a bonus heavy contract or one loaded with marketing money.

Since 21, we've only seen rare glimmers of who he used to be. And the D in 21 was stacked. 

 He's also going to turn 35 next year. Even if you surround him with a stellar line up, prime wj isn't coming back. Wj who excels playing a starters volume of reps isn't coming back either. 

[Booch]

150k salary...rotational/situational leadership role id be fine with

He still has juice and value..but has to be in a platoon role type thing...and used to best capitalize his skill

We need to prioritize a couple legit inside presence guys who possess multiple technique...and the ends will look substantially better...and we need to abolish and go as far away as we can with the loyalty and favoritism plan of having guys inside who are for lack of better word...useless 95% of their snaps...

[HardCoreBlue]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

Great...let's wait until then to declare he is doing the same thing.

More importantly what we were asking him to do. We are all blaming WJ for playing the defensive role his DC asked of him. We were using WJ as a DE/LBer hybrid in pretty much every 4 man front we ran and then asking him to take on every double team in a 3 man front. There was little chance he was going to do the things a DE gets recognition for. It's fine to drop him out on occasion to keep the offence off balance but we were doing it almost every play and then he just becomes an oversized and slow (by LBer standards) glorified LBer.

Teetering on being a spectator and not an engaged player. So when JT is on, we're basically playing with 10 players.

Really feels like trying to force players without the skill sets to fit into a favored defensive scheme versus customizing a defensive scheme with the talent you have available.

[Booch]

10 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Teetering on being a spectator and not an engaged player. So when JT is on, we're basically playing with 10 players.

Really feels like trying to force players without the skill sets to fit into a favored defensive scheme versus customizing a defensive scheme with the talent you have available.

yeah...we need to scrap the rigid ratio constraints...the rigid scheme based on...I not even sure these days and allow the best players to actually compete for jobs....and then select you best 24 where you have actual adequate back-up...the key part and then determine the ratio and who makes best sense scheme wise to suit their, and the units best ability

Not this pre-determined Player X is the starter regardless of injury in camp or outperformed...Position A is a Canadian position regardless if we have better options with an Import....playing sub par guys (Can or American) cause they were loyal foot soldiers in yrs gone past, or just tickle Osh's fancy....

That in a nutshell is what we have done for half a decade now....time to switch things up

[HardCoreBlue]

1 minute ago, Booch said:

yeah...we need to scrap the rigid ratio constraints...the rigid scheme based on...I not even sure these days and allow the best players to actually compete for jobs....and then select you best 24 where you have actual adequate back-up...the key part and then determine the ratio and who makes best sense scheme wise to suit their, and the units best ability

Not this pre-determined Player X is the starter regardless of injury in camp or outperformed...Position A is a Canadian position regardless if we have better options with an Import....playing sub par guys (Can or American) cause they were loyal foot soldiers in yrs gone past, or just tickle Osh's fancy....

That in a nutshell is what we have done for half a decade now....time to switch things up

Even to the most hardcore defenders of trust the process with our coaches can't argue this one.

[17to85]

2 hours ago, GCn20 said:

More importantly what we were asking him to do. We are all blaming WJ for playing the defensive role his DC asked of him. We were using WJ as a DE/LBer hybrid in pretty much every 4 man front we ran and then asking him to take on every double team in a 3 man front. There was little chance he was going to do the things a DE gets recognition for. It's fine to drop him out on occasion to keep the offence off balance but we were doing it almost every play and then he just becomes an oversized and slow (by LBer standards) glorified LBer.

What if they're asking him to do that because that is all he can do anymore? 

We saw him go off in the grey cup 2 seasons ago which did not happen during the season or since... so the logical interpretation is that Willie is old and can't be an every down impact player anymore but he plays every down so they try and save him and let him knock passes down. 

Too much country club where tenured vets get to play no matter what.

[wbbfan]

4 hours ago, GCn20 said:

Great...let's wait until then to declare he is doing the same thing.

More importantly what we were asking him to do. We are all blaming WJ for playing the defensive role his DC asked of him. We were using WJ as a DE/LBer hybrid in pretty much every 4 man front we ran and then asking him to take on every double team in a 3 man front. There was little chance he was going to do the things a DE gets recognition for. It's fine to drop him out on occasion to keep the offence off balance but we were doing it almost every play and then he just becomes an oversized and slow (by LBer standards) glorified LBer.

Have to clarify, WJ didn't play a Lber hybrid or jack role. He hasn't had a straight drop back to even shallow LBer depth in many years here. (Remember when he used to do that and really disrupt passing lanes?) 

 He's basically been spying the QB on inside pass lanes. Idk if that has ever in football been a thing out side of the last few years with WJ. He doesn't spy qb for contain, and he doesn't play both passing lanes. Like a man-to-man shot blocker in basketball. Not the weak side guy rotating over to get a block, he gets tall keeps his feet and tries to get in the way of the ball going right at him. 

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

What if they're asking him to do that because that is all he can do anymore? 

We saw him go off in the grey cup 2 seasons ago which did not happen during the season or since... so the logical interpretation is that Willie is old and can't be an every down impact player anymore but he plays every down so they try and save him and let him knock passes down. 

Too much country club where tenured vets get to play no matter what.

If he could do a lot more with any kind of regularity, we would see him jumping pass lanes from the back side of pursuit on roll outs, getting to the outside shoulder of his ol and batting down backfield pass attempts from the pocket, and frankly getting off the initial block significantly more. Even when he turns it on in the games he excels in now, he is beating his blocker with moves and cuts. He isn't blowing by guys around the edge or any thing. 

[GCn20]

48 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Have to clarify, WJ didn't play a Lber hybrid or jack role. He hasn't had a straight drop back to even shallow LBer depth in many years here. (Remember when he used to do that and really disrupt passing lanes?) 

 He's basically been spying the QB on inside pass lanes. Idk if that has ever in football been a thing out side of the last few years with WJ. He doesn't spy qb for contain, and he doesn't play both passing lanes. Like a man-to-man shot blocker in basketball. Not the weak side guy rotating over to get a block, he gets tall keeps his feet and tries to get in the way of the ball going right at him. 

If he could do a lot more with any kind of regularity, we would see him jumping pass lanes from the back side of pursuit on roll outs, getting to the outside shoulder of his ol and batting down backfield pass attempts from the pocket, and frankly getting off the initial block significantly more. Even when he turns it on in the games he excels in now, he is beating his blocker with moves and cuts. He isn't blowing by guys around the edge or any thing. 

You are correct on his usage, I just likened it to a LBer type role because it is probably closer to that than DE and it doesn't really have a term associated with it because it is unusual. Definitely not true LBer for sure, but definitely not DE either. Just weird usage. Not sure why. Could be declining skills but he rarely gets to straight rush anymore at all. Perhaps, they should get back to giving him those opps.

Edited 6 hours ago by GCn20

[wbbfan]

7 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

You are correct on his usage, I just likened it to a LBer type role because it is probably closer to that than DE and it doesn't really have a term associated with it because it is unusual. Definitely not true LBer for sure, but definitely not DE either. Just weird usage. Not sure why. Could be declining skills but he rarely gets to straight rush anymore at all.

It really is a strange usage. But usually when you have an outlier on the edge like WJ, it's generally some young guy trying to cut his teeth. No matter the level or league. So that guy would be in their prime athletically, and you'd use them in a lot of ways. 

For a guy like WJ to play this late into his athletic prime is extremely rare. 

I think his step has diminished, but he can still turn in on. I really think the majority of his dip has come because he has been getting physically battered for a long time. After all, teams can double him and have figured out that if you out-physical him, he will coast. Some guys don't relish the physical punishing side of the game. Even at DL. Even at his best, WJ has been a terrible tackler in the back field. 

From an offensive standpoint, I'd be happy to see any DE roaming on the edge looking for PKDs. I love DL getting organic PKDs, but their value isn't remotely comparable to a sack imo. Tips still gets caught sometimes, but he is very seldom batting balls up to get picked. A PKD on 2nd down means you're punting unless it's a very short distance to the first. But even sacks on first down that get converted bring tremendous value. When you stack up physical hits on a QB, you drastically change the game. 

Ages ago, Football Outsiders I believe it was, had an article on QBR after hits/sacks and hurries. As you would expect, QBs that took 5-10 QB hits/sacks/hurries in a game saw drastic dips in production. Hurries don't have as much impact, especially without the hits, but you change the game when you disrupt the QB. PKDs slow the drive but don't have that compounding. 

[Booch]

Whatever the role was...it was odd..and noticeable and don't think degraded talent related...as mentioned have discussed this and former DE said it was very odd

I think if we bring him back..and im 99.9% certain we are we need to have him play as a straight up pressure/attack de...or rush end hybrid at various spots on line...20..25 high energy snaps and allow the young ends to grow...his experience and knowledge of the oline guys we will face also be invaluable to the youngsters

We need a difference maker tho inside..if Hutchings hits the market back the truck up..that guys a beast and versatile...his presence would allow woods or Adams to eat too..but hopefully we scour the interior line with guys brought in like we have with dbs before..fix the line..the rest will fall into place..we already have some legit pieces coming back..and any new blood..fa or scouted that's as good or better is just bonus

[SpeedFlex27]

20 minutes ago, Booch said:

Whatever the role was...it was odd..and noticeable and don't think degraded talent related...as mentioned have discussed this and former DE said it was very odd

I think if we bring him back..and im 99.9% certain we are we need to have him play as a straight up pressure/attack de...or rush end hybrid at various spots on line...20..25 high energy snaps and allow the young ends to grow...his experience and knowledge of the oline guys we will face also be invaluable to the youngsters

We need a difference maker tho inside..if Hutchings hits the market back the truck up..that guys a beast and versatile...his presence would allow woods or Adams to eat too..but hopefully we scour the interior line with guys brought in like we have with dbs before..fix the line..the rest will fall into place..we already have some legit pieces coming back..and any new blood..fa or scouted that's as good or better is just bonus

That won't happen if Younger stays at DC. This is his defense with the personnel he wanted doing what he wants them to do. It's strange the way he used WJ. Our DL could be so much better. It's his decision not to do it the way it normally would be done.

I don't pretend to try to explain how Younger uses his personnel & why. All I know is we don't presure qbs anymore. Out interior DL is a joke which affects our Ends. We don't get the pressure we used to when Richie Hall was DC. With Hall, it all started with a vicious Front 4. With Younger, he seems to build from the back end out. The best athletes play in the secondary & it flows up to LBers & finally to the DL which is a no pressure Front 4. I don't like it & I'm not convinced Younger is really all that good as a Coordinator. 

11 hours ago, GCn20 said:

Great...let's wait until then to declare he is doing the same thing.

 

Yup, let's just repeat the same mistakes again.... If we don't have an OC in place in 5 or 6 weeks then we can declare that the talk of change & introspection was just that... talk... while nothing has changed.